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485:. It turns out he permits the use of DNA testing to establish lineage, but rejects its use to deny lineage. In this context, he's referring to close lineage between father and child. Clearly, the content of this quote is significantly different from what's written in the article. I will revise the article to align with the content of this quote.
887:. You should post a message on his talk page telling him that you have done that. I know you pinged him, but it isn't safe to assume that editors receive pings from admin noticeboards, because they may have turned notifications off. You should also explain on this page what your disagreements with Buhadram's editing are.
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clearly allows me to use those references. However, you will likely interpret it differently due to our significant differences. You want to maintain the status quo, and I want to provide an alternative perspective. It seems we will not accept each other's interpretations. Therefore, let the admins
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Regarding the ongoing debate concerning the use of Y-DNA testing in tracing distant patrilineal ancestry, I invite several editors who appear to have a deeper understanding of this issue to contribute. I request the following users to provide their input on this article, particularly regarding the
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what if " They claim their lineage to Ahmad al-Muhajir who was born in 873 (260H), who emigrated from Basra to
Hadhramaut in 931 (320H) to avoid sectarian violence, including the invasion of the Qaramite forces into the Abbasid Caliphate.The claim remains controversial, and to date, there is no
615:
Actually, not just one, but two people from
Indonesia. Both of them have been validated by the Indonesian Ba Alawi genealogy recording institution (Rabithoh Alawiyah). In fact, Y-DNA can indeed be used to trace lineage back to what science considers " Adam." And in an open meeting of Rabithoh
1182:
It wasn't me who added the paid website, it was
Buhadram. This shouldn't be considered a problem. Regarding the language you can't understand, it's important to know that the current genealogical controversy originated in Indonesia, so it's natural to have many references in Indonesian.
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I am not sure that I'd say: I have a far deeper knowledge. I included a note in my profile of one of my DNA kits sharing that I have a DNA linke with
Egyptian Pharaoh Ramseses III. But I understand he may have had 70+ children so it bounds to happen he'll have decedents alive today. -
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Certainly you can edit the newly modified content, but of course avoid getting into another edit-war. I am doubtful about the reliability of at least one cited source, but I haven't checked very thoroughly, so I can't commit myself to any view. I see that you have mentioned
1422:"They claim their lineage to Ahmad al-Muhajir who was born in 873 (260H), who emigrated from Basra to Hadhramaut in 931 (320H) to avoid sectarian violence, including the invasion of the Qaramite forces into the Abbasid Caliphate, although that claim is contested"
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the controversial statement is not notable enough for it to be in the first introductory paragraph of the lede section. I have made compromises and allowed it to be in the lede section but not in the first paragraph where it shouldn't be there anyways.
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Would be nice if you stopped creating new topics in the talk section for the exact same arguments. Plus JWB has stated this on your talkpage: "I prefer not to get involved in the dispute about content of the article" so please stop pinging him
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no? also the amount of text that you've used to refute their lineage is more than that what is used to introduce the claim, which gives makes the paragraph more leaning towards the non-related indonesian controversial claims (which is against
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Alawiyah, an official speaker from them acknowledged that the majority of them are G, with J as a minority. Between haplogroups G and J, it is clear that they do not share the same male ancestor (TMRCA) in the last 1500 years.
1510:"The verifiability policy states that all quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports it."
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allows you to add your unreliable sources. If you want the admins at the noticeboard decide on this dispute, then please stop editing the stuff that was part of the edit war and don't add new stuff to the article before
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The controversial statement is placed in the first paragraph of the article because the claim is already mentioned there. It seems that the controversial part at the end of the subsection can be removed.
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I disagree because the first paragraph already includes the claim of descent from
Prophet Muhammad. The controversial section in the last paragraph has been integrated into the first paragraph.
957:
This issue has been brought to the noticeboard, I will remove it when an admin raises concerns about the wording and references. Let's wait for another admin to respond soon. Thank you.
560:
the debate was due to your original research and not "the use of Y-DNA testing in tracing distant patrilineal ancestry". There is absolutely no reason for pinging all these people...
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Oh nice. Im pretty sure that yk that only one dna sample from a random indonesian person who claimed to be a part of this arab family isn't enough to disprove their lineage right?
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Please add references according to
Knowledge's guidelines for citations from Shaikh Shauqi 'Allam. If no references are provided, I will edit the content for removal. Thank you.
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They are not. One of them is pay-walled and the other youtube videos are in a language not related to the subject and I don't understand that language too
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continues to make substantial edits to the article. What should I do? Am I allowed to edit the newly modified sections, or should I continue to hold back?
200:) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
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Yes, I understand that the claim has existed for hundreds of years; therefore, the controversial sentence explaining it must be in the same paragraph.
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Which
Knowledge policy exactly? You keep on repeating the words "Knowledge policy" and "Knowledge's guidelines" every time but you never say which one
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Alright, I'll try to find some high-quality references on this topic first. If I can't find any, I'll have to edit the content to remove it.
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to revise the article. If JBW considers my edits a violation, I will remove my edits and await further instructions from the admin.
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agreement between those who refute and those who support the Ba 'Alawi lineage." and i will add my references in the end of it.
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I will remove the parts of the article that reference YouTube content whose authenticity cannot be traced due to heavy editing.
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was totally right to draw my attention to the fact that you have continued the edit-war, and I have blocked you from editing.
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Would be nice of you to remove that unreliable source and the text along with it instead of letting it stay in a BLP article
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I've re-edited the article with additional references as you suggested, and I immediately got a complaint from @
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sure but there is not need for referenced in the lede section as long as it exists in the article itself. See
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I am willing to move the mentioned section to the end only if the claim is also moved to the last paragraph.
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Then you need to clarify that by clearly saying that who question it are localized to be in
Indonesia. only.
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Their claim of lineage to
Mohammed is way more notable than their badly sourced controversies in indonesia
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Please undo your edits and restore the old version of the lede or else this will end in another edit war
698:'s talkpage will should and will be removed along with the text that has nothing to do with the sources.
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In terms of phrasing, the existing sentence is non-judgmental and concludes with a neutral statement.
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211:. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
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Afaik , the reference meets the requirements for use as a reference according to
Knowledge policy.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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215:.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see
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No?? he did NOT give you the permission to plaster your OR in every paragraph of this article?
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This article appears to use YouTube content as a source. Isn't that against Knowledge's rules?
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From that sentence, citations opposing the claim in the article should indeed be included.
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nope. Secondary references for that information have already been included in the article.
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that dispute", and I explicitly mentioned edit-warring as one of them which is not good.
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The clearest quote from Shaikh Shauqi 'Allam that I could find is in the following link
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section that is full of OR and the questionable sources that I have mentioned in @
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I don't agree. Let's take this to the noticeboard and get other admins involved.
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Yes, it's a bit longer; how about a shorter version? Please provide an example.
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How is that source reliable? It's like trying to disprove the lineage of the
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979:. What did I do wrong? If I made a mistake, I'll delete it right away.
761:,As you know,We're still talking about this on the noticeboard, but @
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Avoid YouTube if there's something better. If not it depends. See
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orrr you could just add a tag instead till someone finds one
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from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:List_of_guidelines#Content
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The references are clear, what else needs to be explained?
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The use of Y-DNA testing to trace distant paternal lineage.
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keeps editing the part we're arguing about. Is that okay?
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Abo, as seen above, I have received approval from @
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33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
1132:remotely encyclopedic? please revert your edit
885:Knowledge:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
692:Ba 'Alawi sada#Questionable lineage to Muhammad
823:, I said I did not wish to become involved in
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1052:at the noticeboard decide on this dispute.
829:the ways in which you can try to deal with
483:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJz-FgIL0yw
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901:okay, i will continue editing it ,thanks
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686:weight to the article. I have added
306:This article is within the scope of
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1594:Biography articles of living people
426:A quotation by Shaikh Shauqi 'Allam
249:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
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510:Y-DNA testing section. Thank you.@
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690:section to the article, The old
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346:This article has been rated as
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1419:how about something like this:
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678:Disputes and rebuttals section
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320:and see a list of open tasks.
193:biographies of living persons
42:Put new text under old text.
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326:Knowledge:WikiProject Yemen
205:must be removed immediately
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
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1609:WikiProject Yemen articles
1599:Start-Class Yemen articles
352:project's importance scale
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630:still, original research
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80:Be welcoming to newcomers
1383:WP:Neutral Point of View
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784:Wrong user , i mean is @
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1066:No, not everything at
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239:This article is rated
75:avoid personal attacks
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100:Neutral point of view
915:You just added back
105:No original research
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