844:(whose authority they both accept on this point) says that modesty is not good for all people, but it is agreed that sophrosyne is (160e). Charmides proposes that temperance is minding your own business. Socrates finds this particularly offensive, and tells Charmides that he must have heard this from some fool (162b). Socrates can tell from the uneasy look on Critias face that this was his idea, and they exchange some words. Critias accuses Charmides of misrepresenting him. Socrates says to him testily that at his age, Charmides can hardly be expected to understand temperance (162e). At this point in the argument, Critias takes up the argument with Socrates suggesting that temperance might be the same as self-knowledge. Socrates confesses as they discuss this that his motive in refuting Critias is to examine himself, that he pursues the argument for his own sake (166c-d).
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between medicine and science. He says that medicine is the science of health and disease, and that a person who does not understand these things is not in a position to distinguish a real physician from a quack (171c). He says that if wisdom is the science of knowing what you know and knowing what you don't know, no one would ever make a mistake, and we would pass through life without erring. He concludes that this does not happen, therefore this definition of wisdom is inaccurate.
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and
Critias agrees. Socrates asks him by what knowledge do these people become wise. Is it the knowledge of fortune games? or of health? Critias responds in the negative and concludes to him it's "the knowledge of good and evil." Socrates likes this answer and says that knowledge of other things like
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but in order for the cure to work, the patient must have a good soul and possess temperance. Charmides is ashamed to reply that he has temperance as he feels it will make him look vain. Socrates asks him that first instead of answering if he has it that maybe they should provide a definition of what
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Socrates tells
Critias that there would be no shame in his just talking to the beautiful and popular boy, even if he were younger than he is. Socrates informs the reader that Critias is the child's guardian or caretaker (ἐπίτροπος, literally "one to whom the charge of anything is entrusted") (155a).
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Socrates says he dreams, however, of a world in which no one pretends to be something he is not (173a-d). In the end, Socrates appears to have recruited a new disciple to philosophy: Charmides says he is willing to be charmed every day by
Socrates, and Critias tells the boy that if he is willing to
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Charmides first suggests that sophrosyne is a kind of quietness or slowness (159b). Socrates talks him out of this because quickness, energetic attitude and agility are more useful to learning than quietness or slowness. Next
Charmides proposes that sophrosyne is the same as modesty. Socrates says
682:," "self-control," or "restraint." When the boy is unable to satisfy him with an answer, he next turns to the boy's mentor Critias. In the dialogue, Charmides and then later Critias champion that Temperance is "doing one's own work" but Socrates derides this as vague. The definition given next of
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Critias next suggests temperance is self-knowledge. Socrates asks what product this knowledge makes and
Critias says not all knowledge creates a product. Socrates finds this answer unreasonable. Critias' suggestion that sophrosyne is self-knowledge spurs Socrates to a discussion of the relation
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seems promising but the question is then raised if something can even have the knowledge of itself as a base. As is typical with
Platonic early dialogues, the two never arrive at a completely satisfactory definition, but the discussion nevertheless raises many important points. The
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Critias agrees and tells an attendant to tell
Charmides to come and see the physician ("iatros") about an illness that Charmides has complained about. Critias suggests that Socrates pretend to know a cure for a headache to lure the boy over.
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and asks him about affairs at home, the present state of philosophy, and whether any of the boys had distinguished himself for wisdom or beauty, or both. Critias answers that
Socrates will soon get to know the beauties firsthand, for
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Socrates' analogy, that ignorance is to the philosopher what disease is to the physician, is important and persistent in the dialogues. And everywhere, Socrates fails to effect a cure. In the
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who said "no work is dishonorable." He says that you have to use context and the quote clearly means noble professions such as shoemaking and not ignoble ones such as
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Critias says that "to work" and "to make" are two completely different things and this is the basis for
Socrates misunderstanding him. Critias quotes the authority of
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do this, he will have proof of his temperance. Charmides says that if his guardian instructs him to submit to Socrates' charms, then he would be wrong not to do it.
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dialogues. Socrates admires Charmides' beauty at the beginning of the dialogue, saying "I saw inside his cloak and caught on fire and was quite beside myself."
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accuses Socrates of making a mess of their discussion, Socrates accepts the complaint and calls himself a laughable doctor (
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This is generally considered one of Plato's earlier dialogues based on analysis of his writing and the fact that it ends in
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Dialogue and Deviance: Male-Male Desire in the Dialogue Genre (Plato to Aelred, Plato to Sade, Plato to the Postmodern)
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Guthrie, William Keith Chambers (1998). «III. Dialogues ». History of Greek philosophy Vol. IV .
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This article is about Plato's dialogue. For the Athenian statesman, see
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On the Concept of Irony with Continual Reference to Socrates
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Approaching Plato: A Guide to the Early and Middle Dialogues
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health are useless unless you understand good from evil.
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Critias' definitions of sophrosyne in Plato's Charmides
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27:. For the insect genus, see
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111:
110:
109:
104:
99:
94:
89:
84:
82:Theory of soul
79:
74:
69:
61:
60:
52:
51:
45:
44:
15:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
2633:
2622:
2619:
2617:
2614:
2612:
2609:
2607:
2604:
2602:
2599:
2597:
2594:
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2576:
2575:
2571:
2569:
2568:Plato's Dream
2566:
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2454:
2448:
2445:
2443:
2442:Ship of State
2440:
2438:
2435:
2433:
2430:
2428:
2425:
2423:
2422:Ring of Gyges
2420:
2418:
2415:
2414:
2412:
2410:
2409:and metaphors
2404:
2398:
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2324:
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2322:
2319:
2315:
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2310:
2309:
2308:
2305:
2303:
2302:Platonic love
2300:
2298:
2295:
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2290:
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2267:
2266:
2262:
2260:
2259:
2255:
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2239:
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2199:
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2183:
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2176:
2174:
2173:
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2162:
2160:
2159:
2155:
2153:
2152:
2148:
2147:
2145:
2139:
2133:
2132:
2128:
2126:
2125:
2121:
2119:
2118:
2114:
2112:
2111:
2107:
2105:
2104:
2100:
2098:
2097:
2093:
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2086:
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2079:
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2058:
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2044:
2042:
2041:
2037:
2035:
2034:
2030:
2028:
2027:
2023:
2021:
2020:
2016:
2014:
2013:
2012:Hippias Minor
2009:
2007:
2006:
2005:Hippias Major
2002:
2000:
1999:
1995:
1993:
1992:
1988:
1986:
1985:
1981:
1979:
1978:
1974:
1972:
1971:
1967:
1965:
1964:
1960:
1958:
1957:
1953:
1951:
1950:
1946:
1944:
1943:
1939:
1937:
1936:
1932:
1931:
1929:
1925:
1921:
1914:
1909:
1907:
1902:
1900:
1895:
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1881:
1871:
1865:
1862:
1860:
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1855:
1853:
1850:
1848:
1845:
1844:
1842:
1838:
1824:
1821:
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1814:
1813:
1811:
1807:
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1800:
1796:
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1624:
1622:
1621:
1617:
1615:
1614:
1610:
1608:
1607:
1603:
1601:
1600:
1599:Hippias Minor
1596:
1594:
1593:
1592:Hippias Major
1589:
1587:
1586:
1582:
1580:
1579:
1575:
1573:
1572:
1568:
1566:
1565:
1561:
1559:
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1452:
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1439:
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1433:
1426:
1425:
1421:
1419:(1841 thesis)
1418:
1417:
1413:
1410:
1409:
1405:
1404:
1402:
1398:
1391:
1390:
1386:
1383:
1382:
1378:
1375:
1374:
1370:
1367:
1366:
1362:
1360:(423 BC play)
1359:
1358:
1354:
1353:
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1347:
1340:
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1218:
1216:
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1198:
1196:
1193:
1191:
1190:Social gadfly
1188:
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1103:
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1064:9781009308199
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983:
972:
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947:
944:
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940:Thomas Taylor
938:
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837:
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811:
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797:
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778:
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770:
766:
762:
758:
746:
743:
740:
739:
734:
730:
727:
724:
721:, the son of
720:
717:
714:
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401:
397:
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383:
381:
380:
376:
374:
373:
369:
367:
366:
362:
360:
359:
355:
353:
352:
351:Hippias Minor
348:
346:
345:
344:Hippias Major
341:
339:
338:
334:
332:
331:
327:
325:
324:
320:
318:
317:
313:
311:
310:
306:
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292:
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278:
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269:
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264:
262:
261:
257:
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248:
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243:
241:
240:
236:
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212:
208:
206:
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199:
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187:
185:
184:
180:
178:
177:
173:
172:
171:
170:
167:
164:
163:
158:
155:
153:
152:Ring of Gyges
150:
148:
147:Ship of State
145:
143:
140:
138:
135:
133:
130:
128:
125:
124:
123:
122:
119:
118:
114:
113:
108:
105:
103:
100:
98:
95:
93:
90:
88:
85:
83:
80:
78:
75:
73:
70:
68:
65:
64:
63:
62:
58:
54:
53:
50:
47:
46:
42:
38:
37:
34:
30:
26:
22:
16:Work of Plato
2572:
2529:Neoplatonism
2524:Commentaries
2502:
2396:Hyperuranion
2394:
2382:
2339:
2332:
2325:
2311:
2263:
2256:
2249:
2244:Rival Lovers
2242:
2235:
2228:
2221:
2214:
2207:
2200:
2191:
2184:
2177:
2170:
2163:
2156:
2149:
2143:authenticity
2129:
2122:
2115:
2108:
2101:
2094:
2087:
2080:
2073:
2066:
2059:
2052:
2045:
2038:
2031:
2024:
2017:
2010:
2003:
1996:
1989:
1982:
1975:
1968:
1961:
1954:
1947:
1941:
1940:
1933:
1856:
1815:
1797:
1790:
1783:
1776:
1758:
1751:
1744:
1737:
1730:
1723:
1716:
1709:
1704:Rival Lovers
1702:
1695:
1688:
1681:
1674:
1667:
1660:
1653:
1646:
1639:
1632:
1625:
1618:
1611:
1604:
1597:
1590:
1583:
1576:
1569:
1562:
1555:
1548:
1541:
1534:
1527:
1520:
1513:
1506:
1500:
1499:
1492:
1485:
1457:
1449:
1441:
1427:(2006 novel)
1422:
1414:
1406:
1387:
1379:
1371:
1368:(1721 opera)
1363:
1355:
1336:
1328:
1320:
1261:Sophroniscus
1139:Bibliography
1085:
1054:
1040:
1020:
1013:
993:
986:
924:
907:
892:
887:
877:
873:
861:
857:
853:prostitution
846:
838:
830:
826:
814:
807:
793:
786:
755:
736:
722:
688:
673:
611:
610:
608:
516:Neoplatonism
501:Commentaries
482:
475:
468:
461:
454:
447:
440:
433:
426:
419:
412:
405:
398:
391:
384:
377:
370:
363:
356:
349:
342:
335:
328:
321:
314:
307:
300:
294:
293:
286:
281:Rival Lovers
279:
272:
265:
258:
251:
244:
237:
230:
223:
216:
209:
202:
195:
188:
181:
174:
117:The Republic
115:
87:Epistemology
33:
2384:Anima mundi
2341:Theia mania
2158:Definitions
2141:Of doubtful
1792:Oeconomicus
1785:Memorabilia
1462:(1971 film)
1454:(1966 film)
1392:(2007 play)
1376:(1759 play)
868:sooth-sayer
428:Definitions
2590:Categories
2447:Myth of Er
2407:Allegories
2313:Sophrosyne
2289:Philosophy
2230:On Justice
2216:Hipparchus
2124:Theaetetus
2089:Protagoras
2061:Parmenides
1977:Euthydemus
1746:Theaetetus
1690:Protagoras
1662:Parmenides
1648:On Justice
1585:Hipparchus
1557:Euthydemus
1400:Literature
1357:The Clouds
1279:Lamprocles
1267:Phaenarete
978:References
895:Theaetetus
880:Protagoras
809:sophrosyne
773:Chaerephon
745:Chaerephon
707:Characters
693:homoerotic
680:temperance
675:sophrosyne
435:On Justice
323:Protagoras
316:Euthydemus
274:Hipparchus
232:Parmenides
211:Theaetetus
157:Myth of Er
2334:Peritrope
2237:On Virtue
2165:Demodocus
2117:Symposium
2110:Statesman
2047:Menexenus
1984:Euthyphro
1949:Clitophon
1942:Charmides
1858:Peritrope
1799:Symposium
1739:Symposium
1732:Statesman
1655:On Virtue
1627:Menexenus
1564:Euthyphro
1536:Demodocus
1508:Clitophon
1501:Charmides
1471:Dialogues
1285:Menexenus
1273:Xanthippe
1086:Charmides
950:full text
925:Charmides
908:Charmides
782:Charmides
769:palaestra
719:Charmides
702:Charmides
689:Charmides
670:Charmides
612:Charmides
449:Demodocus
442:On Virtue
372:Clitophon
365:Menexenus
295:Charmides
246:Symposium
225:Statesman
176:Euthyphro
49:Platonism
21:Charmides
2503:Republic
2427:The Cave
2417:Atlantis
2390:Demiurge
2327:Amanesis
2258:Sisyphus
2186:Epistles
2179:Epinomis
2172:Epigrams
2151:Axiochus
2096:Republic
2082:Philebus
2075:Phaedrus
1956:Cratylus
1880:Category
1770:Xenophon
1718:Sisyphus
1697:Republic
1683:Philebus
1676:Phaedrus
1543:Epinomis
1515:Cratylus
1494:Axiochus
1459:Socrates
1373:Socrates
1338:Socrates
1307:Socrates
1269:(mother)
1263:(father)
1183:Concepts
1128:Socrates
957:, 1927:
948:, 1870:
930:LibriVox
884:Prodicus
833:Zalmoxis
757:Socrates
723:Dropidas
713:Socrates
662:dialogue
657:Χαρμίδης
484:Epigrams
477:Axiochus
456:Sisyphus
421:Epistles
414:Epinomis
379:Republic
253:Phaedrus
239:Philebus
204:Cratylus
107:Atlantis
102:Demiurge
41:a series
39:Part of
2437:The Sun
2265:Theages
2209:Halcyon
2202:Eryxias
2131:Timaeus
2103:Sophist
1998:Gorgias
1963:Critias
1935:Apology
1840:Related
1817:Halcyon
1778:Apology
1760:Timaeus
1753:Theages
1725:Sophist
1578:Gorgias
1550:Eryxias
1522:Critias
1487:Apology
1381:Socrate
1305:include
1229:Phrases
864:prophet
800:Critias
777:Critias
752:Setting
738:Apology
729:Critias
660:) is a
470:Eryxias
463:Halcyon
393:Critias
386:Timaeus
330:Gorgias
288:Theages
218:Sophist
183:Apology
2484:Legacy
2068:Phaedo
2026:Laches
1669:Phaedo
1613:Laches
1293:(wife)
1275:(wife)
1254:Family
1061:
1028:
1001:
973:, 1986
959:online
942:, 1804
849:Hesiod
817:aporia
789:Cydias
302:Laches
197:Phaedo
2223:Minos
2040:Lysis
1970:Crito
1927:Works
1920:Plato
1809:Other
1641:Minos
1620:Lysis
1529:Crito
1479:Plato
1435:Other
1349:Stage
1301:Works
1291:Myrto
1287:(son)
1281:(son)
842:Homer
796:Plato
666:Plato
652:Greek
552:Plato
400:Minos
309:Lysis
190:Crito
2457:Life
2054:Meno
2033:Laws
1634:Meno
1303:that
1153:Life
1059:ISBN
1026:ISBN
999:ISBN
969:and
609:The
407:Laws
337:Meno
67:Life
2561:229
2556:228
2019:Ion
1606:Ion
1314:Art
912:at
866:or
664:of
628:ɑːr
358:Ion
2592::
2551:24
2546:23
654::
650:;
640:iː
43:on
1912:e
1905:t
1898:v
1246:"
1242:"
1239:"
1235:"
1120:e
1113:t
1106:v
1067:.
1034:.
1007:.
646:/
643:z
637:d
634:ɪ
631:m
625:k
622:ˈ
619:/
615:(
598:e
591:t
584:v
31:.
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