200:
1891:
syllables with similar graphic structure, such as 를, 롤, and 룰, out of context, are inherently difficult to distinguish, whether you use a
Talnemo font or not. The modern, less extreme Talnemo fonts tend to be designed based on ergonomics (i.e. "how long can you read before tiring out?", "how quickly can you recognise the symbol?" etc.) or to achieve inter-jamo balance (i.e. regularity of space between jamo) as much as inter-syllable balance (i.e. regularity of the block size). If you can read hangul, here's one such rationale.
264:
2973:. For Inuktitut, Cree, Ojibwe and Blackfoot, this is generally true, but the statement is utterly false if you're describing one of several different varieties used by the Carrier languages. While most are written as a smaller, raised glyph, in the Carrier varieties, finals can be in the raised, mid-line or lowered positions, with each position assigned to a different consonant value, so they are not interchangable. Also, in some text, such as in
1599:). Unicode ignores the Athapaskan finals that are mid-line and low-line positions. However, this is not really UniCode's problem because they just adopted pDam's recommendations, and pDam was focused on Cree with everything else being ancillary. Even the ᕃᕆᕈᕋ, if pDam would have taken the historical context into consideration, would instead have ᕃᕂᕄᕆ; or if the form was of concern ᕂᕆᕈᕋ would have been the preferred order.
1595:. And yes, UniCode is most definitely wrong in treatment of Canadian syllabics because it unifies all of it into a single block. Yes, Cree-Ojibwe-Inuktitut group can be merged into a unified set, but you can't do that with the Blackfoot group, and the demands of the Athapaskan groups are very different from that of the other two groups. UniCode completely omits the ᓀᓂᓄᓇ with the overscript ᓬ and ᕒ for the Ojibwe (see my
254:
1560:
that are small, raised versions of the initial consonant signs). Hangul is unique only in not having fixed sizes for each letter but compressing all letters of a syllable to fit in a square block, and some recent Hangul fonts even drop this in favor of fixed-size letters and irregular, variable syllabic blocks, though the blocks themselves are kerned as fixed width not variable width, at least as far as I've seen. --
233:
191:
350:
1009:. They have separate, unrelated characters for each CV (consonant-vowel) combination, whereas abugidas use the same character for each syllable where the consonant is the same, marking the vowel with a diacritic or other means (this makes abugidas sound like alphabets but I'm just trying to make clear how they differ from syllabaries). So when you look at a
2651:"abugida" has a meagre 40 thousand hits on google. how is that well established?? even some normal terms have got a million hits. if you look above in the section "Semi-syllabaries?" you can see that kwami says to another person as well that abugidas are called semi syllabaries. why do we need to use a biased term when we already have a neutral term.
3308:
by syllables? (Obviously the syllables decompose into consonants and vowels.) What about stress? One often has action at a distance simply due to stress. The
Ethiopic script doesn't mark geminate consonants, and one could use that as an argument that abugidas aren't necessarily syllabic. While valid, it isn't helpful. Do you know of a better
894:
a particular writing system is better suitable depends on several factors including phonology. I think syllabics fit
Japanese just fine, for example. It's more of an apples vs oranges or spoon vs fork comparison. One didn't necessarily evolve from another, nor is there a particular predetermined evolutionary sequence. For example,
3281:, but that's not how most English people read. A parallel example is Thai นม v. นมะ, which one take as literally indicating /nomo/ and /noma/, but are then converted by Thai reading rules to /nom/ and /nama/. I wouldn't like to argue that this Thai pair makes Thai an alphasyllabary because of the action at a distance of ะ.
1342:"Amharic" or "Ethiopia", while speaking English, I will no more avoid stress (or otherwise feign a knowledge of Amharic phonetics) than I will pronounce the word "schwa" as on account of it being borrowed from German or the word "alphabet" as a Greek would say it or the word "abjad" with an Arabic accent.
3536:
be included in the article? It is syllabically organized but alphabetically analysed — there is a letter for each phoneme, but they are clustered together into syllables (with the vowel to the right or beneath the consonant). The clustering changes the proportions of the symbols (though not the shape
3120:
1. Literacy in post-Harappan india (obviously literacy in post-Harappan India existed in certain pockets & were limited to very small sections of society- alphabetic scripts were brought from West Asia and the Indus script also continued – this a very logical and self-explanatory paper and anyone
3013:
I see the title as "Tpology"; probably should be "Typology". Left it as is because I don't know how to edit references, and have not found it easy to learn how; also, because that could have been an intentional spelling. If it was just a typo, after fixing it, this section might as well be deleted to
2853:
In my studies I’m dealing with computer scientists, typographers, linguists, sociologists, psychologists and, luckily not too often, palaeographists (I will ignore teachers for their own good); they all have very different (often justified, sometimes just wrong) ideas about what writing (and reading)
1890:
Talnemo fonts are cool, but the extreme ones are, for me, to fixed-block fonts as
Courier New is to Arial, so I don't think many people would choose to use it exclusively. As I previously mentioned, it seems to me that the variation within the block is a main factor in making a syllable distinct, so
1377:
Til
Eulenspiegel, it's not possible to avoid stress in English. If a word comes from a language without stress, such as Japanese or French, we invent the stress placement. The question is where would be best. Daniels' answer happens to match my intuition, but it could easily have been something else.
1137:
Nope, the first vowel is most definitely not ə, in
Amharic. It is a, the long a, as in Father. One experience that is worth hearing is an Ethiopian singing the ABC song (the one to the tune of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star) with the Abugida. "Ah, bu, gi, da, hey, wuh, zo... beh, gu, di, ha, wey, zih,
893:
The idea that various writing systems fit on a single evolutionary scale (coincidentally with alphabet being on top, nonetheless) seems rather inaccurate. Different writing systems have different strengths and weaknesses, as opposed to one writing system being more "advanced" than the other. Whether
408:
They can be, depending on the mode. If you write vowels with dots, they're an abugida. If you write them with separate letters (e.g. mode of
Beleriand), they're more alphabet-like (especially if you use separate characters for each vowel rather than a generic vowel character which bears marks). A bit
3307:
I'm not sure how to progress this. I think action at a distance is not relevant to the definition of an alphasyllabary as a category of writing systems which can be viewed as organised by syllables. It may be relevant, though - there is the burden of not simply reading forward. Is Latin organised
3247:
This last addition to the article makes the intro rather overblown. It should be moved downwards into the article. Additionally, the definition of alphasyllabaries is not very precise. It would class
English script as such. There are many vowels not written in speech order. For example the vowel /e/
2849:
Anyhow, there is not yet a universal or even universally accepted typology of scripts and writing systems, so there are competing terms to be expected. (Add to that outdated theories still believed in and taught: Knowledge, for instance, somewhere still calls the Korean script “featural” and, worse,
2725:
For you it would seem that "biased" means "I don't use this word", whereas "neutral" means "I do use this word". Once again, you aren't everyone. We saw above an editor who mistakenly thought an "alpha-syllabary" was a type of syllabary. Obviously, the term isn't as clear or universal as you seem to
2429:
when using grammar people are more familiar with syllabaries, semi syllabaries or alpha syllabaries not at all with the term "abugida". i agree with jwb that his term is better. people from asean(thailand, malaysia, vietnam, cambodia etc.), india,tibet and all other asian countries would definitely
2213:
kind of syllabary? Look at the Hindi example in the article for the word "cricket", "krikeţ". While the syllabary-centered analysis is that a syllable represented by /k/ + virama is followed by /ri/, the fact that the /i/ is written at the beginning of the word indicates that the spelling is treated
1932:
According to both
Daniels and Bright (in discussions on the qalam mailing list, roughly 2001), these two concepts are not the same. There are scripts which are abugidas but not alphasyllabaries, and vice versa. I'm not sure whether that necessarily means the article needs to be split in two, as they
466:
In my opinion, the formulation that the vowelless characters are used in consonant clusters and syllable-finally is redundant and, more importantly, perhaps unclear to larger audience. I am not familiar with how South Asian scholars describe them, but in an encyclopedic article that isn't important.
2791:
Um, why don't you reread what you wrote. Then you might understand my answer. You claim one term is neutral, and the other is biased. You've presented zero evidence. You say that because I disagree with you, I must be biased, and hint that that's due to my ethnicity. You've presented zero evidence.
2534:
you dont need to use such complicated way of talking, just go on google, type the word and see the search hits. when i typed alpha syllabary and semi syllabary yesterday i got more than 96,000 compared to abugida which had 36,000. today abugida has 42 k hits and alpha syllabary has less. the google
2448:
No, simply inserting a space between "alpha" and "syllabary" will yield all pages with "alpha" and "syllabary" independently anywhere on the page. You need to put double quotes around them ("alpha syllabary") or link them with punctuation (alpha-syllabary) to get that kind of search, and then there
1837:
It is also not very practical for analytic or fusional languages--words in analytic languages are short enough that the complexity of syllable assembly outweighs the benefit of morpheme segmentation (although it might work well with analytic languages with high number of monosyllabic words, such as
1801:
What this entails is that a syllable boundary, orthgraphically, can also be a morpheme boundary, and thus segmentation is done at the text level rather than in the reader's mind. Further, since a syllable boundary is implicit (i.e. does not require additional symbol or whitespace), the compactness
1310:
It's really too bad you cannot accept the word of fluent
Amharic speakers that there is no such concept as stressed syllables in Amharic, and must turn to those who know zero Amharic, to get a second opinion about the language that is in fact quite incorrect. I can dig up actual quotes from one of
1216:
Following the editing disagreement between Kwamikagami and Til Eulenspiegel over the source of the word "abugida", I referred the question to Peter T. Daniels, who replied, "I adopted it (at Wolf Leslau's suggestion) from Ethiopic. It occurs in both Ge`ez and Amharic. Solomonic, no?" He also asked,
3161:
The example phrase in Roman does not match with those in Bengali, Devanagari, Gujarati, Gurumukhi, Oriya. The 3rd word in Roman starts "girvārṇa ", ie, g + small-i + r + v + long-ah + r + ṇ + short-a. All the transliterated text show long-i instead of short-i, and the second r is missing from all.
2867:
Bright says that "alphasyllabary" is defined graphically, meaning that the vowel symbols are dependent, while Daniels' "abugida", according to Bright, is defined by presence of an inherent vowel. In the past I've edited this article to deemphasize the inherent vowel sound as the main criterion and
2647:
there are a lot of people who understand syllabary and semi syllabary or alpha syllabary but hardly any of them have ever heard of the term "abugida". the term abugida is just a name that represents a particular grammatical type, it does not mean anything of itself. it was just coined by a person.
2600:
syllabic alphabet w/o the other two: 132 hits. However, among the "syllabic alphabets" are not only abugidas but Japanese, Cherokee, zhuyin, Chinese ("the 40,000 characters of the Chinese syllabic alphabet"), Sumerian, hangul, Maya, Linear B, Vai, and several cases where I can't decipher what they
1872:
As for visual distinction of blocks.... Despite the fact that the syllables are forced into uniform squares, the individual jamos in the block change in position and size as the font designer balances them that, I think, there is enough variation within the block to make most blocks distinct from
1559:
Adding Latin alphabet to the comparison makes it very clear that not all are necessarily abugidas. Hangul does put vowels in various vowel-specific positions relative to the initial consonant (like the abugidas) and final consonants below everything else (somewhat like the Canadian Syllabic finals
2624:
which equates it with abugida and alphasyllabary and uses "syllabic alphabet" as the primary term. Most of the top 10 also agree that "syllabic alphabet" does not mean syllabary, but #9 and #10 are about Japanese kana and Cherokee and use the term. "Syllabic alphabet" is not as unambiguous a term
2149:
I think Peter Daniels picked "abugida" rather than "alphasyllabary" for a very good reason: abugidas are neither alphabets nor syllablaries, so it would be misleading to imply that they're somehow a mixture of the two. And whatever the most popular term may have been 20 years ago, it's clear that
2134:
Also, Ethiopic is derived from a Semitic abjad and the extant Semitic abjads both have vowel diacritics that make them functionally equivalent to abugidas and are fully used in some contexts like scripture, but even the voweled versions of the scripts are never referred to as abugidas. This seems
1783:
Hello, I am literate in Korean and wanted to comment. I think the way hangul assembles jamo into syllabic blocks work well for the Korean language, because 1) Korean has several vowels, and 2) Korean is agglutinative. As an agglutinative language, a Korean word can be potentially very long, but
2944:
A note on Swampy Cree: I do not know the language other than their morphosyntactic structures in linguistics (I just begin to learn). The abugida character in Swampy Cree (according to easy sources) only refers to the alphabet that had been evolved since the adaptation of the first advocacy in
2930:
When in fact the writing systems are orthogonal (linear orders corresponding to the order of utterance in a uniform position), then the classification schema is less complicated. That is, we can say that the language Swampy Cree (a language of Algonquian alphabet) and Tamil (a language of Tamil
2039:
Abugida, syllabic alphabet, semi-syllabary, alphasyllabary—those can mean the same thing, and each of them is actually used, more or less. However, in recent versions, it seems that too much emphasis is put on the term “alphasyllabary”. Currently the article even states that abugida is commonly
1650:
That's not what we mean by 'ligature' here. We're talking about ligatures being used to indicate the lack of a vowel. ᐸᐦ and ᑕᐦ are simply digraphs calqued from English, and ᕙ and ᕦ are new letters created to replace them. Whether or not the loops in ᕙ and ᕦ derive from the letter ᐦ is perhaps
1524:
The 'medials' are marginal, at least in Eastern Cree. L & R only occur in English & French loans, and init H only occurs in one native word. In dialects which have L or R, there are separate C series. Normal words rotate the C. But it doesn't matter, because vowel marking is obligatory
3398:
I think the description of the handling of vowels without consonants and consonants without vowels would be clearer if we talked about phonetic structures CV, C, V, CCV and CVC. One should remark that more complex cases are handled by combining solutions for simpler cases. We can remark that
1341:
word "abugida", written in English letters and spoken with English phonetics by people who are using the word while writing or speaking in English. Amharic speakers are not the authority on how words are pronounced in English. When I use the word "abugida", not to mention the words "Ge'ez" or
1784:
unlike fusional languages, a word can be segmented into morphemes pretty easily. Due to the large vowel inventory, a syllabic structure naturally arises, and (given that one wants a morphophonemic orthography) it is possible and relatively easy to map morphemes onto one or more syllables.
1933:
were clearly trying to capture roughly the same thing, but the way the article is written now it makes it seems as if these are two different names for the same class. That's not the case. Technically speaking, both the intentions and the extensions, of these classes are different.
1544:
I took out hangul again. We may not state that it's an abugida, but putting it in a table comparing abugidas certainly implies that it is one. The characterization was also wrong: Hangul does not use diacritics to mark vowels, for example, and doesn't have special final C forms.
2335:
The name "alphasyllabary" was coined for the Indic scripts, and is meant to suggest that it's part-way between an alphabet and a syllabary. It may not be an exact synonym for "abugida", but any difference is abstruse, and I've never seen them contrasted in any meaningful way.
2178:
you can read the discussion below, the term "abugida" is not established at all. abugida is just a name it does not denote anything and peter daniels made that term a long time ago. since then many better terms have been used. the best one among them would be alpha syllabary.
1420:
Agreed. Abugidas are segmental scripts where vowels are obligatory but take second billing. Rather like tone most Roman alphabet adaptations (in Hanyu Pinyin all full tones are written, but 'neutral' tone is not; in Tongyong Pinyin it is the high tone that is not written).
2469:
No it did not not take it as two seperate edits. it mostly had alpha and immediately after that syllabary simply put alpha syllabary. this resulted in more search hits than "abugida". we can discuss that in the next section since this heading was made for something else.
824:
As used in this article, it evidently refers to the abstraction consisting of the shape of a glyph without reference to its orientation: a definition close to but not identical with the second one above. If this definition is standard in some community, it should be
1838:
Vietnamese, as it would compact the writing by rendering whitespaces unnecessary); and morphemes in fusional languages are difficult to segment, and even if they can be segmented, I doubt whether there will be a close correspondence between speech and orthography.
2362:
is a weird, non-descriptive name. I too would prefer a name that suggests the writing system is partly syllable-based and partly phoneme-based. But what I'd prefer is irrelevant here. Also, I didn't say the word "alphasyllabary" was biased; the edit is biased
1473:
wrong!, ᕓᕕᕗᕙ and ᕞᕠᕤᕦ are ligatures, as with these: ᕿ ᖁ ᖃ ᖏ ᖑ ᖓ ᔉ ᔊ. Also, in NW Ontario, there are the L and R series written with ᓀᓂᓄᓇ with ᓫ or ᕑ above them, which are also ligatures. When we head west to the Athapaskan forms, they are completely full of
944:
For text information processing on computer, other means of expressing these functions include special conjunct forms in which two or more consonant characters are merged to express a cluster, (...) This expedient is used by ISCII and South Asian scripts of
1733:
They looked weird at first to me, but I think the increased visual variation in block shape corresponds with characteristics of Latin-alphabet mixed-case typography (descenders, ascenders, whitespace) that are said to promote legibility and faster reading.
750:
Hebrew is written with an abjad system. Vowels and consonants are written seperately whereas in an abugida system, basic characters combine both consonant and vowel. In an abugida, it requires a special symbol to remove the vowel inherent in the character.
708:? I thought that it was all consonants with perhaps diacritics to mark vowels (like Arabic), but not actual modification of the letter forms (or reorientation, etc.). Actually, I guess if the diacritics were necessary in all writing, then it would be an
2845:
Daniels has influenced the terminology of (Western) English-writing authors quite a bit. His terms are known to say the least, i.e. they are established. Other terms exist though, but they can originate in and be used with slightly different meanings.
2284:
It seems the abugida and syllabary (or alphasyllabary) are different writing systems, and as to their distinguishable roles in linguistic typology, unless few concepts are clarified in terms of ‘what it is not’ rather than ‘what it is’, there will be
2150:
nowadays – both in the Internet and in paper books – "abugida" is the preferred term. In fact, before Daniels pushed through the term "abugida", there probably was no common name for them in English (otherwise he wouldn't have needed to coin one). +
641:(sixth) form which can be used for consonants is technically "Cə" rather than an inherent consonant. It can be a consonant in some cases (usually word-final, except sometimes when connected in a phrase), but the basic letter form is for a vowel. —
1535:
The only Athabaskan final which is not raised, at least in the Unicode fonts, is the mid dot for glottal stop. None are lowered. A comment like we had for final /w/ would be okay here, but either CJ's claim is wrong, or else Unicode got it
2425:
no its not established at all. the correct way to search would be to give a space like - alpha syllabary. a refined search done will show that the term alpha syllabary and semi syllabary are used 3 or 4 times more compared to "abugida".
2745:
biased means that you are purposefully favoring one word because of your ethnicity or other issues, neutral means that you are using a word that does not favor anyone and is neutral which is in strict accordance with wikipedia policy.
1873:
each other. Frankly, I don't think this is much of an issue, since one can disambiguate by looking at surrounding syllables. And like in most other written languages, a fluent reader in Korean would not read every letter on a page.
1531:
As there is no initial /w/, it's hard to argue that the final form is distinct from the initial. The ᐤ could just as easily be said to be a diacritic to mark a /u/ diphthong. But that's a minor point and it was okay the way JWB had
2034:
1000:
What about written Japanese such as Hiragana/Katakana? They employ consonants followed by vowels with the exception of the stand-alone "n" sound... are these considered abugidas as well or have I misunderstood the category?
2741:
you are obviously working from a biased perspective even when there is a perfectly normal neutral term that exists. if you see above in the section "semi syllabary?" you said it yourself that abugidas are semi syllabaries.
504:
In every discussion on phonology that I have encountered during my linguistics studies, consonant clusters have been defined as any kind of a group of adjacent consonants, regardless of syllable boundaries. For example, the
2964:
3301:
What easily make Thai an alphasyllabary are the preposed, subscript and superscript vowel symbols. Had Rama Khamhaeng been bolder and his linearisation followed, they would have been eliminated. Thai would still be an
1574:
Depending on the dialect, ᐁᐃᐅᐊ is either treated either as the zero-consonant or as a glottal stop as a consonant. If in the initial position, then it is always assumed zero-consonant. For example, in Ojibwe, ᒪᓯᓇᐃᑲᓐ is
2367:
you say something is "commonly called X" when it is not so commonly called X. Anyway, what should be written in Knowledge is not what things should be, but what things actually are. I left a short message in your talk
2977:
in Ojibwe, other than in the initial title (and the small raised "sh" in the "shk" clusters through-out the document), the finals are not written as a small, raised text! (they are shown as full-sized i-vowel forms).
1819:
So, about your comment about the impracticality of applying hangul to other languages.... It is obviously impractical for languages in which denoting vowels can be superfluous, like Arabic, or for languages that are
3659:
confused than when I went in. I'm sorry, I'd fix this if I could, but I'm totally lost. At a bare minimum, would it be too much to ask for an in-line example of an abugida with an accompanying in-line explanation?
1756:
That makes sense, actually. The only reservation I've ever had about hangul (besides the impracticality of applying it to other languages) is wondering how visually distinct the blocks would be to a fluent reader.
1404:
Use of presence of a default inherent vowel as the sole or primary criterion should be deemphasized. Placing vowels relative to a consonant rather than simply as part of a liner sequence is a more basic feature.
3036:
this deals with the origin of Brahmi . this is a logical and self-explanatory paper and is written using a multi-disciplinary approach. it is written in such a way that anybody can cross-verify the conclusions.
2854:
is, which shows in the typologies, theories and terminologies they prefer (= know). In each of the fields there are of course several schools to choose from, often predetermined by one’s cultural background. —
2792:
Bright did not coin alphasyllabary as a "formal definition"; you might want to read that passage again. I did not say that abugidas are semi syllabaries; I said that the word "such systems" refers to abugidas.
3614:
Bright's alphasyllabary (see SECTION 31) is apparently not intended as an equivalent of these functional terms, but refers to the formal propeny of denoting vowels by marks that are not of the same status as
2303:
So what is the syllabary? The syllabary has two main characters in a writing system--a) it seeks to complement consonants in a CV form rather than as a single consonant, and b) it can take vowels as distinct
908:
I agree. In any case, there seems to be more of a connection between abjads and abugidas, and between syllabaries and logographic writing systems. I can't think of an abugida that evolved from an alphabet.
486:, like the /st/ in "start" or the /dz/ in "kids". A syllable-final consonant is like the /m/ in "hamburger". Linguists differentiate between them because some languages allow the latter but not the former.
153:
204:
2776:
zero evidence? what are you talking about? the main article itself says that William Bright coined the world alphasyllabary as a formal definition. you are obviously working from a biased perspective.
1613:
The ᕓᕕᕗᕙ and ᕞᕠᕤᕦ developed from the rotation of ᕙ and ᕦ, which most definitely are ligatures of the digraphs ᐸᐦ and ᑕᐦ. In the Island Lake dialect of Oji-Cree, they still use ᑌᐦᑎᐦᑐᐦᑕᐦ instead of ᕞᕠᕤᕦ.
2120:"Abugida" is a fairly recent coinage. It's approximately as old as the Internet and is popular there. I'm not as sure about published sources. It might be predominant in recently published sources.
471:-finally, it should be clear and unambiguous to most what is meant, and there is no need to resort to the notion of syllable, which has no clear and universally agreed status even among linguists.
458:
3746:
766:"In the family of abugidas known as Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics, vowels are indicated by rotation and / or inversion of the akshara. For example, Inuktitut ᐱ pi, ᐳ pu, ᐸ pa; ᑎ ti, ᑐ tu, ᑕ ta."
3557:
2503:
returns 329 hits on English-language sites which do not include the term alphasyllabary, though a few of those mean specifically Ethiopic. (We need to restrict the search to English, because
3312:
definition of an alphasyllabary? The article needs one or more citable definitions. There is a danger of reporting original research. Do we add English as a borderline alphasyllabary? -
3276:. The idea is that the script represents /make/, and then reading rules, which are often just a gross distortion of sound changes, converts it to /meIk/. I'd like to claim that <a: -->
2393:
alphasyllabary is the recognized, neutral and functional term. there is no need to for being biased and use wordings from different scripts when there is a neutral, functional, common term.
2917:
Then, the militating factors in the taxonomy are the priorities, namely, in typology--on whether priority is to be given to the presence of inherent vowels or to the graphic arrangements.
2648:
moreover the brahmi scripts and its descendants are believed by and large to be descended from aramaic, geez on the other hand does not descend from aramaic but from south arabian.
451:
Some people find it helpful if these suggestions are shown on this talk page, rather than on another page. To do this, just add {{User:LinkBot/suggestions/Abugida}} to this page. —
1947:
3736:
1892:
2625:
because it is polluted by some usage for syllabaries, but clearly its primary current usage is a term used for abugida / alphasyllabary including by some notable authorities. --
3751:
3552:
I came here, to write this. Yes, it’s also a very nice abugida, as it seems to be free of quirks, and adding additional features like an order of letters in the syllables. —
624:
This is the case for most Indic and Ethiopic scripts. Tamil does not have letters for plain consonants; for that it needs a diacritic. That's a defining feature of abugidas.
1217:"Please get them to spell Ge`ez correctly" and mentioned that "shwa is misleading in Ethiopic transcriptions, because it's not a reduced vowel, it's a high central vowel". —
1484:
Only true in the Cree-Ojibwe-Inuktitut and Blackfoot forms. In the Athapaskan forms, they're Inline, small, but can be raised, mid-line or lowered, depending on the final.
1268:
he was talking somewhat tongue-in-cheek. There isn't any reason why the English name for a language has to be a transliteration of that language's name for itself at all.
3341:
The introduction to the 'Description' section is getting too big. I think part of the solution is to split it into 'General Description' and 'Family-Specific Features'.
2987:
2886:
D&B together define abugida letters as having an inherent vowel, with diacritics indicating other vowels, so it would seem the graphic component is relevant for both.
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Mainly because it *does* possess pure consonants, marked by a dot on top of the consonant. If there is no contention, I will remove it from the list of "true" abugidas.
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abugida -alphasyllabary since 2000: 37 previewable hits on Books, of which 8 are Webster's quotes, 2 are in foreign languages, and one is the name of an NGO, →26 hits.
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The obvious contrast is with syllabaries, which have one distinct symbol per possible syllable, and the signs for each syllable have no systematic graphic similarity.
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Thus, a language (whether it is of a script or of an alphabet or of both) can be of an abugida character or of a syllabary character or of both. Are these correct?
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Re stress: "Secondary stress on a-, primary stress on -gi-." Good to know, I'd assumed primary stress was on the -bu-. Probably because it sounded like "boogity".
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It is definitely an improvement. I'll take a look at it later and maybe do some copyediting, but it makes much more sense now. Thank you so much for your work!
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So what is it not? The abugida is nothing else than a writing system that indicates the vowels by modifying consonants in rotation, diacritics, or orientation.
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and imho actually more commonly used. Would it be okay to undo some of those edits that are apparently based on the unsourced view or personal preference that
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should be moved to this new section, which was the general part of the description. The fact that they are different should be left in the introduction. -
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search hits are not very steady from time to time. either way how is 40 k a "well established" term. even normal terms have got google hits in the million.
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You keep saying over and over and over what people are more familiar with without providing any support for your claims other than invalid Google searches.
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At Google Books, we have 135 hits for abugida(s) vs. 54 for alpha(-)syllabary(s); 117 of the former and 45 of the latter do not contain the opposite term.
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The comparative table of features is not universally applicable for mainland SE Asia. Would it make sense just to list the oversimplifications in notes?
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I'm not sure what to say to edit the "Description" section, other than that I highly disagree with the table with the Features listed for the "Canadian":
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However, for agglutinative languages with large vowel inventory, I think a system similar to hangul's will work better than a linear alphabetic system.
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Google Books gives 73 for alphasyllabary vs. 159 for abugida, and 680 for the phrase "syllabic alphabet". There might be more for other variations. --
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Could someone add an IPA pronunciation for this word? I have never heard it spoken and it is so obscure that not a single online dictionary has it. −
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Self-promotional announcements are not permitted in Knowledge, even if they relate to an article's subject matter. This section should be removed.
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Self-promotional announcements are not permitted in Knowledge, even if they relate to an article's subject matter. This section should be removed.
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Here you confuse me. Isn't Thai considered an alphasyllabary already? The English example still shows that the definition given is insufficient. −
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the canadian box is put along with the canadian aboriginal section, i dont know why it was put in the very beginning far away from its section?
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debatable, but in any case is irrelevant, as even if they do, that is a historical detail that has no effect on the functioning of the script.
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analyzes Hangul as an abugida, as opposed to, say, an alphabet with some interesting kerning rules? My impression is that the answer is "no".
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For Books and Scholar it's also useful to put in cutoff dates - all 40 Books results for abugida before 1990 refer to Ethiopic, for example.
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Of course, I am open to correction and clarification of the opposing view, but until then, I hope that passage wouldn't be further edited. ---
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defines consonant clusters as: "A sequence of consonants before, after, or between vowels. E.g. is a medial consonant cluster in words like
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3199:^ Peter T. Daniels (Oct–Dec 1990), "Fundamentals of Grammatology", Journal of the American Oriental Society 119 (4): 727–731, JSTOR 602899
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2576:"Syllabic alphabet" got far more Books or Scholar results than either abugida or alphasyllabary, unless many of the results were bogus. --
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2. The reintroduction of the lost manuscript hypothesis (the case for this thesis has obviously become much stronger in the recent past)
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So the results of dedicated use are 260 to 330, in favor of abugida, which given the unreliability of Google search, is an effective tie.
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513:." Anyway, many linguists would say that the /s/ in "start" and /z/ in "kids" are syllables of their own, because they are higher on the
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the world's foremost Amharic experts, Dr. Amsalu Aklilu, stating there is no such thing as syllabic stress, since you won't believe me.
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2497:(which picks up the plural as well) returns 475 hits on English-language sites, of which only 220 do not also contain the term abugida.
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I tried to edit the table and it just became a mess, so I'm going to let someone who can say this a bit more eloquently do the edits.
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2408:"Abugida" is biased or non-neutral, but unlike "alphasyllabary" it's actually an established term in the study of writing systems. +
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Yes, that's actually the alternative spelling he noted, with the schwa symbols, before his comment about how it can be misleading. I
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alphabet) are abugidas but are varied in their vowel modifications, i.e. by rotations in Swampy Cree and by orientations in Tamil.
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I think it is better to focus on living writing systems, and it sounds like Athapaskan syllabics went out of use some time ago. --
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returns 60 English-language hits, including "alpha/syllabary" and "alpha syllabary", of which 39 do not include the term abugida.
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doesn't have a letter for pure consonants anymore. Formerly, the first form was a pure consonant (when it was an abjad), but the
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in Devanagari would be written without any diacritics, which makes it an abugida, not an ordinary alphabet.) Hope this helps :)
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I don't understand what he means by "spell Ge`ez correctly". True, "Gə‘əz" is confusing for someone trained in the IPA, but it
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of the orthography is not lessened. Due to these, I hypothesise that the syllabic assembly makes reading Korean texts easier.
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Already done. "Abugida" has been consensus wording for years. If LE wishes to change it, he can bring it up for discussion.
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Not sure if you're still looking for answers, but A-bu-di-da is spelled out in Ge'ez and Amharic in the intro of the page.
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As the term alphasyllabary suggests, abugidas have been considered an intermediate step between alphabets and syllabaries."
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it is not just 3, there are other scripts that are being discovered hence the use of "different" or if you want "various"
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called as alphasyllabary. Sometimes called, yes. Also known as, yes. But commonly called? I have nothing against the term
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alphasyllabary -abugida since 2000: 27 hits, of which 2 are foreign, and several others do not actually contain the word.
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The Athapaskan groups most definitely do have high-line, mid-line and low-line. For examples online, see Languagegeek's
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As me and Gwalla have both reverted from our respective edits now, I thought it best to bring the matter do discussion.
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I have moved the definition of the akshara to the introduction, and corrected it to refer to the unit of an abugida. -
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For plain web search, the first page has 6 Ethiopian-specific results (2 video) and 5 writing system typology results.
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I agree the addition would be better in the 'description' section. See my comments on that in the relevant section.
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BTW, Google Scholar: 153 hits abugida(s), 113 alpha(-)syllabary(s), of which 129 & 85 do not use the other term.
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as {kr} + /i/. Unless one is prepared to speak of syllables-within-syllables, the {k} can't be taken as a syllable.
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Others, however, prefer to consider such systems of writing syllabaries, "semi-syllabaries", or "alpha-syllabaries".
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I have a problem with the table found in "Description" section, but not sure how to fix it. The current table says
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By the way, in Ge'ez, as noted in the article, the first vowel is ä (not ə, and not a as it is in Amharic either!)
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How is Abugida pronounced? It is not to be found at webster.com on in my American Heritage dictionary application.
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Of course there are arguments to be made for and against basically any scientific term. Personally, I do not like
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How am I supposed to know you've not finished editing? If you sign off, you're telling me that you have finished.
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There are no consonant ligatures. ᕿ is not a ligature for /rki/, but a digraph for /qi/. ᕓ is not even a digraph.
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40,000 hits? Go to the last page and watch what happens to the count. You'll see that most of those are ghosts.
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I also don't understand what is meant by the consonant being zero or a glottal stop depending on the consonant.
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1. The reconfirmation and reinforcement of the Indus script thesis (very logical and self explanatory paper)
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can you atleast wait for me to finish editing before you jump in start replying? atleast a bit of courtesy?
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Yes, but if they are functionally different than living scripts, we should at least make a note of that.
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2830:) for that matter, but I do like the harmony of these terms. We do not have such a nice sequence with (
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If not, it should be either defined here or, better, replaced by an explanation that doesn't require a
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is the “more correct” term? Or is it actually more correct? Thank you in advance for any suggestions.—
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on recent Hangul typography emphasizing consistent letter size rather than consistent block size.
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like the difference between Hebrew and Yiddish: both use the same script, but Hebrew uses it as an
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no. ᐤ is a distinct final form found in Cree and Ojibwe in both eastern and western orthographies.
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itself, but those edits are maybe a bit too much, not only repetitive and wordy, but biased: by
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i am pleased to announce the publication of my fifth research paper in a peer-reviewed journal
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meaning ligature specifically to indicate lack of a vowel, rather than "ligature" in general.
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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
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is known both in India and in Southeast Asia which are much larger than Ethiopia and Eritrea.
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regardless. You can't leave the V off an init H; if you did, it would be read as a final H.
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I have tried to do something about that. Is it better now, do you have any suggestions? --
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first. It’s been a while since I read it, but it discusses the naming problem quite well.
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the views of the current article are not accepted by a lot of respectable script authors.
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/111707419/Sujay-Indus-Reintroducing-Lost-Manuscript-Hypothesis
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PS. What's wrong with calling hangul 'featural'? It's even presented that way in Korea.
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Thanks, I'll take a look at it. Not sure exactly what your first point means, though. --
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The use of syllable structures to clarify inherent vowels would certainly be helpful. −
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interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to
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It is not clear what "such" refers to here. What systems are called semi-syllabaries?
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/127306265/Sujay-Post-Harappan-Literacy-and-origin-of-Brahmi
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literacy for written language which has lately been replaced by the Roman alphabet.
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a consonant letter represents, either with or without a marked vowel, is called an
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So, not only do you not know how to search Google, but you aren't willing to learn.
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/127306265/Sujay-Post-Harappan-Literacy-Final-Final-Final
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And you have zero evidence for your claims, so this is a waste of time. Good bye.
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not be comfortable with a non-neutral, biased, unestablished term like "abugida"
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You're off on a tangent. We aren't talking about Amharic. We're talking about the
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mean. Even a linguistics text define "syllabic alphabet" as a syllabary (Kornai,
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I haven't been able to find anything. Put the question up on the Ge'ez article.
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/46387240/Sujay-Indus-Script-Final-Version-Final-Final
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The new Korean fonts are weird. I can see why they're not used for full texts.
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In Amharic it's . Evidently stress is not phonemic. I've always stressed the
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712:, but since it's extraneous to the writing of Hebrew, then it wouldn't be an
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The usage of consonant characters without an inherent vowel in Brahmi scripts
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Google Scholar: 153 abugida, 112 alphasyllabary, 287 "syllabic alphabet". --
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is listed as abugida-like despite being derived from the English alphabet. —
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Just that the individual letters are combined in squares, read as syllables.
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many authors have said that the brahmi script of india is not an "abugida"
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the standard transliteration, so I don't see how it's any more "correct".
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Either the Roman is correct, or all the transliterated ones are correct.
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depending on the consonant, it is either a Zero consonant or Glottal stop
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on Knowledge. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by
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This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
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Please find my collection of papers on literacy in Pre-Buddhist India
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Yes, we should make it clear that this describes the original system.
1190:(we don't really know about Ge'ez, of course). Amharic "ə" is , not .
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I have now added it back with sources explaining some of the debate.
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My point is that saying that they are used in consonant clusters and
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to here, move information from here to there, or copy information?
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Error in describing Canadian Syllabics in the "Description" section.
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http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic129948.files/Daniels.pdf
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Before mature phase of Indus valley civilization (before 2600 BC)
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Ah yes, I'd thought of cut-off dates and then forgot all about it.
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the best neutral term would be alphasyllabary or alpha syllabary.
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From the standpoint of Knowledge, isn't the question whether any
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Knowledge level-5 vital articles in Society and social sciences
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the standard transliteration. "Ge‘ez" is wrong both in the IPA
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suggest creation of seperate article for the brahmi script.
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gyopi you need to refine the search as i will explain below
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i dont understand why some people say well established??
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Absence of vowel sign: Vowel indication obligatory : -->
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Knowledge vital articles in Society and social sciences
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I think you need to read up on how Google search works.
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Correct, the article should use the more specific term
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is a syllabary, is it not? And the syllables for (say)
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orthographic and phonetic syllables need not coincide.
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A consonant cluster is a group of adjacent consonants
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B-Class vital articles in Society and social sciences
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I had hoped this would be covered by the examples of
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Final consonant position: Inline, small, raised : -->
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I have removed "alphasyllabary" from the lede, per:
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emphasize the graphically dependent vowel signs. --
807:in philosophical terms is the opposite of the word
856:Plain "consonant" would be better in this case. --
3537:to any drastic extent). To me, that's an abugida.
2971:Canadian: Final consonant position: Small, raised
2670:haven't heard of "abugida". You aren't everyone.
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2035:"Alphasyllabary" is more correct than "abugida"?
438:has some possible wiki link suggestions for the
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
3177:You should probably better raise that issue on
3096:Indus valley civilization (2600 BC to 1900 BC)
3084:Literacy in pre-Buddhist India (before 600 BC)
3464:It seems wrong that this has more detail than
1235:We should also ask which syllable is stressed.
3430:Changed in accordance with my suggestions. -
2507:is also used in languages like German, while
1461:Initial vowel letter(s): Zero consonant : -->
1013:chart, you'll notice that the characters for
174:
3232:Distinction recorded in introduction today.
507:The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Linguistics
3597:Daniels, Peter T.; Bright, William (1996).
1948:Seperate section required for brahmi script
417:) while Yiddish uses it as an alphabet. --
3655:Honestly, if anything I came out of this
2620:First web hit for "syllabic alphabet" is
2000:i will add sources later to this effect.
773:is used without being defined or linked.
374:] The anchor (#Writing system) has been
3491:The following statement makes no sense.
3277:in an open syllable becomes /eI/, as in
3117:Post-Harappan India (1600 BC to 600 BC)
2489:"alpha-syllabaries" OR "alpha-syllabary"
2358:. LanguageExpert, I can see your point.
1477:Distinct final forms: Western only : -->
681:Why classical hebrew is not a abugidas?
536:characters for A-bu-gi-da? Thank you. --
966:for this use won't be visible/writable
275:This article falls within the scope of
188:
3762:Top-importance Writing system articles
3719:
2015:Please make sure you're familiar with
1521:These points are misleading or wrong.
442:article, and they have been placed on
2123:I would not pick "abugida" if I were
1956:Who? It is the prototypical abugida.
303:Knowledge:WikiProject Writing systems
344:
306:Template:WikiProject Writing systems
184:
3603:. Oxford University Press. pp. 4–.
3360:The contrast of the definitions of
1468:... but not for the Medials ᐧ ᐦ ᓬ ᕒ
218:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
13:
3157:Error in comparison chart graphic.
3121:can cross-verify the conclusions)
2209:How can it be accurate to call it
436:automated Knowledge link suggester
14:
3773:
3468:. Should we cross-reference from
3248:in "make" is written <aCe: -->
3228:Abugida vs Alphasyllabary (contd)
704:Wasn't classical Hebrew still an
610:Tamil script *not* a true abugida
3732:Knowledge level-5 vital articles
3700:The Blade of the Northern Lights
3680:The Blade of the Northern Lights
3662:The Blade of the Northern Lights
2127:making up these names. The word
1928:These are two different concepts
1894:-- AZ, 09 Sept 2008 —Preceding
348:
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45:Click here to start a new topic.
3757:B-Class Writing system articles
3249:, around the final consonant. −
1471:Consonant ligatures: None : -->
1005:Hiragana and Katakana are pure
323:This article has been rated as
3742:B-Class level-5 vital articles
3645:08:12, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
3630:15:29, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
3080:Literacy in Pre-Buddhist India
2850:classifies it by that term.)
2355:Thank you, JWB, for you edits
2029:07:00, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
2010:07:18, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
1:
3547:01:52, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
3189:13:58, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
3172:08:19, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
3061:09:38, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
3003:05:50, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
2988:00:26, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
2640:Well established?? says who??
1943:21:08, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
1908:10:13, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
950:This says about rendering of
852:20:27, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
699:) 09:15, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
42:Put new text under old text.
3672:04:47, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
3580:18:47, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
3562:23:36, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
3519:21:45, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
3440:22:17, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
3393:22:17, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
3222:21:27, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
3029:Origin of Brahmi : new paper
3024:09:30, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
2052:is most common, followed by
1059:02:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
756:21:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
7:
3600:The World's Writing Systems
3482:22:22, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
3460:22:22, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
3424:06:21, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
3409:22:22, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
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2189:13:54, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
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2145:13:26, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
2112:10:41, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
2097:10:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
1074:07:00, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
970:. It might be described in
810:
278:WikiProject Writing systems
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
10:
3778:
3554:2A02:908:4C16:A740:0:0:0:3
2076:is a recognized term, but
1923:Alphasyllabary vs. Abugida
1767:06:40, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
1744:06:21, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
1681:I've added information at
1109:16:13, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
1094:09:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
983:03:54, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
929:04:13, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
836:referenced from this page.
629:05:52, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
619:00:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
564:02:17, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
329:project's importance scale
3139:09:05, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
3014:reduce clutter. Regards,
2603:Mathematical linguistics)
1729:00:57, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
1713:00:40, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
1698:00:12, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
1661:18:14, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
1630:15:46, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
1609:15:28, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
1570:11:57, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
1555:07:19, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
1513:03:06, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
1498:02:30, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
1447:00:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
1431:00:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
1415:21:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
1034:22:58, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
903:23:38, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
866:21:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
744:21:15, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
669:21:15, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
600:28 June 2005 12:40 (UTC)
592:18:12, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
540:14:29, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
455:10:33, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
322:
247:
226:
80:Be welcoming to newcomers
3446:Family-Specific Features
2955:04:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
958:, but doesn't say about
815:"perishable", a name of
596:No, it's an alphabet. --
517:, but many wouldn't. ---
478:11:01, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)
422:15:10, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
293:and/or leave a query at
3710:17:45, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
3694:09:58, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
2807:Please, everyone, read
2072:roughly in this order.
1388:17:58, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
1358:00:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
1321:21:32, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
1298:21:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
1278:19:10, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
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1200:17:39, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
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1148:11:28, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
1129:09:58, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
521:09:32, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
497:01:14, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
309:Writing system articles
295:the project’s talk page
3727:B-Class vital articles
3045:sujay rao mandavilli
3009:Minor error in Ref. 3?
2080:is a correct term too,
1597:Freelang Ojibwe readme
956:information processing
822:
376:deleted by other users
75:avoid personal attacks
3129:Sujay Rao Mandavilli
779:
777:is not very helpful:
687:comment was added by
532:Does anyone know the
446:for your convenience.
205:level-5 vital article
100:Neutral point of view
3651:I tried to read this
1119:but that's just me.
962:scripts: the virama
775:Knowledge's own page
635:the Ethiopian script
484:in the same syllable
105:No original research
3356:General Description
3206:no longer exists.
1676:conjunct consonants
935:Other use of virama
2449:are only 394 hits.
2046:search engine test
1683:Hangul#Block shape
1618:Syllabic Variation
875:From the article:
586:ka, ki, ku, ke, ko
515:sonority hierarchy
214:content assessment
86:dispute resolution
47:
3609:978-0-19-507993-7
3572:Nitpicking polish
3224:
3212:comment added by
3179:Wikimedia Commons
3051:comment added by
2054:syllabic alphabet
1898:comment added by
1360:
1348:comment added by
1040:Semi-syllabaries?
976:Unicode#Ligatures
800:of script of the
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588:are all similar.
566:
550:comment added by
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365:in most browsers.
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66:Assume good faith
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3195:Broken reference
3063:
2135:inconsistent. --
1343:
1313:Til Eulenspiegel
1232:Thanks for that!
1212:Ge`ez or Amharic
1162:Til Eulenspiegel
1140:Til Eulenspiegel
1044:From the intro:
996:Asian languages?
896:Pitman shorthand
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784:Sanskrit grammar
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429:Link suggestions
415:matres lectionis
384:Reporting errors
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2125:Peter Daniels
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1350:68.34.101.226
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1080:Pronunciation
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988:Pronunciation
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598:Immanuel Giel
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538:Immanuel Giel
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401:abugidas? --
400:
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123:Find sources:
120:
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110:Verifiability
108:
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98:
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52:Learn to edit
49:
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41:
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26:
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3637:Onceinawhile
3622:Onceinawhile
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3539:David Cannon
3527:
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3500:
3490:
3463:
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3361:
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3269:
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3231:
3208:— Preceding
3201:
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3128:
3123:
3119:
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3110:
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3101:
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3083:
3047:— Preceding
3044:
3039:
3035:
3032:
3012:
2970:
2968:
2852:
2848:
2844:
2839:
2836:consonantary
2835:
2831:
2827:
2823:
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2813:
2806:
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2703:
2691:—Largo Plazo
2686:
2667:
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2602:
2575:
2572:
2569:
2533:
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2468:
2456:—Largo Plazo
2432:
2428:
2424:
2415:
2410:
2392:
2389:
2386:
2364:
2359:
2354:
2285:ambiguities.
2236:
2216:—Largo Plazo
2210:
2157:
2152:
2084:
2077:
2073:
2070:neosyllabary
2069:
2065:
2061:
2057:
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2038:
1999:
1983:
1967:
1951:
1931:
1918:
1687:
1680:
1673:
1592:
1588:
1584:
1580:
1576:
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1403:
1338:
1265:
1243:
1239:
1215:
1187:
1186:Amharic "ä"
1116:
1083:
1053:
1048:
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1026:
1018:
1014:
999:
991:
980:Hatukanezumi
967:
959:
949:
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361:Anchors are
358:
324:
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220:WikiProjects
203:
171:
165:
157:
150:
144:
138:
132:
122:
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19:This is the
2687:Grammatical
1587:and ᐦᐋᐤ is
1577:mazina'igan
1453:Description
1344:—Preceding
1290:12.109.41.2
1270:12.109.41.2
1219:12.109.41.2
1007:syllabaries
940:Description
912:The ikiroid
833:article and
753:Interlingua
580:But Korean
571:Syllabaries
546:—Preceding
283:WikiProject
148:free images
31:not a forum
3721:Categories
3615:consonants
3528:Shouldn't
3511:RichardW57
3474:RichardW57
3452:RichardW57
3432:RichardW57
3401:RichardW57
3385:RichardW57
3370:RichardW57
3343:RichardW57
3329:RichardW57
3314:RichardW57
3234:RichardW57
3202:The path:
2832:segmentary
2809:Bright2000
2304:syllables.
2048:, perhaps
1935:LarsMarius
1581:mazinaigan
1474:ligatures!
1400:Definition
1064:Abugidas.
1023:Devanagari
633:Actually,
3416:Woodstone
3287:Woodstone
3251:Woodstone
3183:Christoph
2980:CJLippert
2856:Christoph
2840:syllabary
2828:abecedary
1622:CJLippert
1601:CJLippert
1591:and not '
1490:CJLippert
1086:Woodstone
1056:AxelBoldt
968:character
964:character
924:Advise me
882:Evolution
871:Evolution
769:The word
762:"akshara"
616:Kingsleyj
444:this page
208:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
3686:Glennznl
3532:used in
3302:abugida.
3210:unsigned
3049:unsigned
3016:Nikevich
2975:this one
2824:alphabet
2622:Omniglot
2511:is not.)
1896:unsigned
1579:and not
1346:unsigned
1011:Hiragana
945:Unicode.
798:grapheme
788:syllable
731:contribs
697:contribs
685:unsigned
656:contribs
590:Rcaetano
560:contribs
548:unsigned
397:Are the
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
3502:akshara
3487:Akshara
3362:abugida
3310:citable
3164:Vedabit
2816:abugida
2726:think.
2505:abugida
2501:abugida
2360:Abugida
2078:abugida
2050:abugida
1339:English
1031:Oghmoir
960:written
954:on the
831:akshara
792:Shiksha
790:", see
771:akshara
714:Abugida
710:abugida
519:Oghmoir
476:Oghmoir
453:LinkBot
440:Abugida
399:tengwar
393:Tengwar
378:before.
327:on the
210:B-class
154:WP refs
142:scholar
25:Abugida
3705:話して下さい
3667:話して下さい
3534:Korean
3530:Hangul
2820:abjad'
2689:type?
2368:page.—
2129:akṣára
1620:page.
1536:wrong.
952:glyphs
849:Thnidu
817:Brahma
677:Hebrew
582:hangul
511:astray
491:Gwalla
216:scale.
126:Google
3279:bacon
3186:Päper
2995:kwami
2897:kwami
2859:Päper
2822:– or
2794:kwami
2763:kwami
2728:kwami
2672:kwami
2607:kwami
2557:kwami
2521:kwami
2370:Gyopi
2338:kwami
2104:kwami
2089:Gyopi
2021:kwami
2017:WP:RS
1990:kwami
1974:kwami
1972:Who?
1958:kwami
1759:kwami
1721:kwami
1705:kwami
1653:kwami
1547:kwami
1483:: -->
1478:: -->
1472:: -->
1467:: -->
1462:: -->
1439:kwami
1423:kwami
1380:kwami
1266:think
1248:kwami
1192:kwami
1121:kwami
1101:kwami
1066:kwami
972:ISCII
900:Tokek
811:kṣara
724:(Yom)
706:abjad
649:(Yom)
639:sadis
626:kwami
534:Ge'ez
411:abjad
403:Error
197:This
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
3690:talk
3657:more
3641:talk
3626:talk
3605:ISBN
3576:talk
3558:talk
3543:talk
3515:talk
3497:mora
3495:The
3478:talk
3456:talk
3436:talk
3420:talk
3405:talk
3389:talk
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3364:and
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3333:talk
3318:talk
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2999:talk
2984:talk
2951:talk
2901:talk
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2838:and
2826:(or
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2657:talk
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2108:talk
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2006:talk
1994:talk
1978:talk
1962:talk
1939:talk
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1709:talk
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1657:talk
1626:talk
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1585:o'ow
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1070:talk
1017:and
978:. --
920:desk
916:talk
862:talk
739:Talk
716:. —
693:talk
664:Talk
556:talk
495:Talk
469:word
449:Tip:
359:Tip:
281:, a
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
3274:war
3270:gem
3266:wan
2870:JWB
2834:),
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2578:JWB
2268:JWB
2254:JWB
2211:any
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1736:JWB
1690:JWB
1593:aaw
1562:JWB
1532:it.
1505:JWB
1407:JWB
1244:and
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974:or
858:JWB
786:, "
782:in
434:An
419:pne
319:Top
176:TWL
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