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An anonymous editor added a statement that in the early 2000s the "creators" (I'm not sure of what) changed the long-running story that Bert & Ernie were not named after two secondary characters in the movie "It's a
Wonderful Life." I have rolled back that addition because I can't find any source
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per nom. Honestly, I feel a
Redirect of both would have sufficed, but for subjects this big a merge discussion is justified. I definitely feel these two receive a lot of coverage as a pair, but not individually. It is more succinct and useful for readers to be taken to an article that covers both of
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Mister Jim Henson never created Bert and Ernie as gay people. They were just two people meant as fun charachters for the kids. And now one of the hunderd of writers claims they are gay? I find it not wikipedia worthy if one guy who is not really believeable, (one of the Henson's or Frank Oz would be
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Is there any relevance to the comment about Kermit and Miss Piggy being in a heterosexual relationship in this context? That statement is about a different show entirely with different intentions - moreover, in the era of "MeToo" and given Kermit's resistance to her advances, she's a massive sexual
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Nick (Zanimum), you added this sentence: "Still, some think that this was said to protect Jim and Sesame
Workshop legally." That sounds far-fetched to me. I always thought it was obvious that the "connection" between the Wonderful Life characters and the Sesame characters was a coincidence; I can't
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The Occam's razor argument is nonsense and incorrect. What is more likely, the co-incidence or that the film influenced the choice of names? It is the LATTER that is more likely. We are talking about "It's A Wonderful Life," not some obscure cult flick. There is no need to assume conspiracy (it is
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It seems foolish to say that the characters reflect Jim and Frank's personalities, right after saying that they arbitrarily switched roles after a rehearsal. It also seems odd to lend so much weight to the "creators'" claims that there is no gay sub-text. Creators not only understate things like
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Personally, I always thought it was obvious that the connection was there. Bert and Ernie in both It's A Wonderful Life and Sesame Street are good friends but with opposite personalities. I think they were based on more than the names. However, that said, find a source before you put it in the
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independent articles currently don't cite enough nobility, have enough depth, or include real-world coverage to stand as separate articles. The main article is concise and appropriatly covers each character. If their sections grow they can be spun-off into two unique articles on each character.
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be covered with separate articles, as it stands now, neither of the individual articles asserts enough nobility, depth of coverage, real-world coverage, or individualism to stand alone. Both characters are (currently) covered here much more adequatly than on their stand-alone pages. The two
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Interview with one of Ernie and Bert's major writers of many years who is also openly gay. He discusses his experiences at sesame street and the context he was working under when developing Ernie and Bert in the integral 80s era. (Misplaced comment by
523:"There is only one sketch in the classic sketches where Bert triumphs over Ernie when showing off his bottlecap collection to Ernie who finds bottlecaps very boring." What about when they play the drum game? Is that too new to be considered 'classic'?
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that to avoid controversy, they also write things into art of which they are not aware. The meaning of any artistic product goes well beyond what the creators' intended (or what they will admit intending) to what the viewer can plainly see.
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Due to the significance of homosexuality rumors being spread about Bert and Ernie it might be wise to have a seperate section for it in the article instead of just putting it in the "Rumors and
Misconceptions," section.-James Pandora Adams
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In the play, and the movie and television series that were spun off, Felix and Oscar are divorcee friends living together in an apartment in New York City. Felix, like Bert is uptight and neat, while Oscar and Ernie are carefree and slobby.
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a 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times more believeable). And since when does 1 writer who didn't make the charachters decide that they are gay? I request the paragraph to be removed or either being put in the triva section.
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Er of course there can be rumours given the charactors aren't involved in making them, whether or not they're real people is irrelevant, their implied sexuality is created by the script writers and designers not the fabric they're made
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It's not that simple. Regardless of the canonical status, the characters have meaning and power as images of a gay couple. The New Yorker reflects this with their forthcoming cover. It is not simply rumor, but popular culture.
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considering that there are now 2 extragalactic neutrinos named bert and ernie, we need to be sure this article is not written in an "in universe" style, and definitely not an "in galaxy" style, which would be incorrect in 2
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There can not be any "rumours", since Bert and Ernie are not living people. They are characters and only have any live in the screen. There are only fan fantasies, just as slash fiction with Harry Potter and Draco Malfoy.
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not illegal to use common names in television) or to presume that you know Jim Henson's thinking. The simpler explanation does tend to be the right one, so why complicate it with so much nonsense and speculation?
647:. Since you're somewhat of an authority among fans, I'll take it out of the article. If anyone can find reference to this "conspiracy" on another site, we'll consider putting this back in, but not until then. --
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imagine Henson sitting around trying to name his new puppets, and saying, "Hey, let's name them after two minor characters in It's a
Wonderful Life." Sesame producer Jon Stone said that it was a coincidence, and
604:) as a separate link? It seems to wildly over-emphasize that whole ephemral side issue, drawing extra attention to it. And, come tothink about it, what about Ernie's sexuality? (I feel stupid just typing that) -
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harasser. They may have a relation ship in the movies and later shows, but in the context of The Muppet Show, calling their relationship a heterosexual relationship would serve to normalize harassment.
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Seems to me, there was briefly (a few episodes) an female Muppet (that looked a little like Bert), who was Bert's sorta girlfriend. Can anyone remember this? is there a 'source' to back this?
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Man, this article is gad-awful. Poor B&E; they so don't deserve an article like this. If anyone wants to be serious about improving it before I get around to it, here's a good source
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I remember when Bert and Ernie came out. I saw it as a take off on (or maybe a steal of) "The Good Guys", starring Bob Denver, Herb
Edelman, and Joyce Van Patten. Take a look sometime -
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The edit from 3 August, about Ernie and Bert being
Communist sleeper agents, strains credibility significantly. Can you provide a source? If not, we should remove the section. --
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Could we please remove that picture of Ernie in the wedding dress? I think it's demeaning to Ernie and Bert. Please remove that picture and the one from the page on Bert.
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There cannot be "rumours". It is either canon or not. Either it comes from official creators - and then they ARE, or it comes from a fan fiction - and then they ARE NOT.
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When Henson died, Frank Oz commented that he "couldn't imagine doing Bert and Ernie without Jim", and indeed the duo have not appeared on any
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for it, but I could be wrong. This would be very interesting, if true - so anonymous editor, if you know better, please provide some backup so we can include it! -
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Now that both the company that makes Sesame Street and Frank Oz say that what
Saltzman said is pure nonsense. I think it's a good moment to end the discussion.
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interesting. I do not object to making this part of a "trivia" section if this is preferred by others here, but it is worthy of mention in this article anyway.
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This article has virtually no "in-universe" style writing that I can see. Maybe it has since been rewritten, but in any case I vote to remove that criticism.
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I still think that
Knowledge is not the place to put stuff that has been said in one interview with one guy who doesn't know how the characters were meant.
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The Muppet Show is indeed a completely seperate show. However, any cartoon-like puppet created for a Jim Henson Production is considered a "Muppet". --
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Shouldn't this be included in the rumours section or perhaps elsewhere? It was quite a big thing at the time when people thought they were.
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You finding it demeaning is hardly a good reason to remove it. Just don't look at the picture/page. The image displays an image of a
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would suggest in this case that a coincidence is a more likely explanation than a conspiracy of silence. What do you think?
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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Just to double-check, I did a quick search to see if sources cover Bert independently. The most I can find is that Bert
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Although I remember the later, colored episodes. This show seemed closer to me than "The Odd Couple". Any comment?
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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I remember Bert and Ernie from after 1990. Did they just rerun old skits? I know Sesame Street does that a lot.
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You seem to be confusing satire with "meaning and power"; there is a difference. Regardless of anything the
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with a less sourced, more conspiratorial quote; in cleaning that up, the old text apparently was left out. /
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This article covers the pair as fictional characters as well, see the Reception and analysis for instance.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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https://web.archive.org/20070311122047/http://www.macon.com:80/mld/macon/entertainment/12951922.htm
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This page is solely about their comedy act. They are treated as completely separate characters on
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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1259:ā Surely they are almost always refered to as "Bert and Ernie", not "Ernie and Bert"? Therefore,
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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I've removed the tags, there hasn't been any discussion since the tag was placed in September.
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https://nypost.com/2018/09/18/bert-and-ernie-are-gay-lovers-sesame-street-writer-reveals/
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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https://web.archive.org/web/20091220045547/http://www.toughpigs.com:80/anthernie00.htm
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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http://classicshowbiz.blogspot.com/2009/05/good-guys-starring-bob-denver-pilot.html
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may have done, CTW effectively ended any purported "rumors" quite some time ago.
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Just recently (in recent edits), this image has been deleted as it is one of the
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I just mentioned the "Bernie und Ert" parody. It is mentioned extensively on the
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shows there's been a distinct preference for B&E over E&B since 1990.
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Regarding Ernie and Bert's relationship; a fantastic answer from one person.
1601:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
1473:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
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Look, I don't think Knowledge needs to be in the business of outing puppets!
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805:. Could you please explain your rationale, or else the tag may be removed. ]
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https://www.queerty.com/exclusive-bert-ernie-couple-finally-answer-20180916
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from ABC News about all the silly rumors that have surrounded these guys.
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It all sounds far fetched to me too. It was just a comment by "Atlant" on
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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A Knowledge editor has suggested merging this article with
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/entertainment/12951922.htm
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
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for a long time, which makes the interview with him in
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per WP:COMMONNAME and the A-Z order of article titles.
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Are they gay? No they are not but 1 guy says they are.
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Until about 1997(?), all the skits were repeats. --
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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them comprehensively rather than the current setup.
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1231:move review
1064:āPreceding
930:āPreceding
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658:āPreceding
1920:Categories
1654:Report bug
1271:projectors
1136:New Yorker
996:trainfan01
936:71.17.87.8
241:Television
116:Television
59:Television
1637:this tool
1630:this tool
1509:this tool
1502:this tool
1140:Federales
1044:Christine
992:copyright
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645:talk:Bert
635:Toughpigs
599:see also
1843:contribs
1643:Cheers.ā
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1363:Support
1342:Support
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1298:Support
1288:Lugnuts
1282:Support
1266:anemone
952:sourced
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478:on the
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