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sources, but outright stating e.g "Richard Brody, writing for The New Yorker, portrays Die Hard as a story of redemption through violence." etc in the same way Roger Ebert's opinions are clearly stated as his own. The section seems like an original-research opinion piece, backed up with the same few sources referenced several times throughout. It may be interesting, but it doesn't seem objective.
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or video will be rented to multiple people by the rental business who buys it. In contrast, the retail price is usually 16-ish$ reflecting that only one family is expected to utilize the disc/tape. Especially in the '80s, a lot of VHS sales were by rental businesses, this changed as more and more people bought retail. It use to be that if you were a rental business, you
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coverage of Willis was before release. Both seem to point to a very positive audience reception even at the time. These facts are mentioned in the article, but the overall narrative seems to contradict them. Over the last few years there have been plenty of films with mixed critical reception but overwhelming audience scores (notably
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is not a
Halloween film before it starts and takes place immediately after it. If you presented your case in any other way than "Bob who serves me coffee on my commute every morning thinks it is a Christmas film, there's a pretty clear consensus here," the engagement in the discussion might have been
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Regardless of anything else, your inability to understand that readers of Empire magazine voting it a
Christmas film does not, in fact, retroactively alter its genre, is frustrating. As is your ability to selectively ignore the content in the article that shows the majority of people do not, in fact,
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Christmas Eve would not be an overlink, but that could be another discussion point in this section. "Christmas is all around us" (with this film), it is not just a random part of the plot. Yes, traditionally viewed at
Christmas can designate it as a Christmas film, per common sense. In any case, this
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I have no idea if Die Hard's VHS was abnormal or not relate to other VHS releases at the time, but if was, and we have non-primary sources to document that, absolutely that's worthwhile to include. I would certainly encourage trying to discover if these exist, but if it seems to be the case that this
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This sounds like people might be confusing rental VHS for retail VHS retail prices. Even today, a retail DVD will usually sell for 80 to 120$ per tape/disc (one use to find rental-intended discs on Amazon, but last I checked, they are hard to find). This is priced by studios to offset that the tape
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I would agree with others that the fact this film takes place on
Christmas Eve is non-essential to the plot (basically a mechanism for having a nearly empty building and a reason for McLean to be in LA), so having it up that high in the lede doesn't make sense. Instead, adding something to the last
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All things being equal, it would seem like a non-issue to mention that the film occurs on
Christmas Eve, which it does. However, given the controversy over whether or not this is considered a "Christmas film", I do have some concerns that adding those three little words in will amount to us putting
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What is this "firmly in the
Christmas column" thing? People watch it at Christmas because that's a tradition people have formed, view count doesn't make it a christmas movie, it makes it a film people watch at Christmas or read about AT Christmas because people say it's a Christmas film for clicks.
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But at least the
Thematic Analysis is all one section relegated to the lower end of the article where it rightly belongs, if it belongs at all. However, in my opinion the opinion the summary should not include the line: "Retrospective commentators also identified and analyzed its thematic concerns,
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The reception section and its summary in the lead currently focus on its mixed/mediocre initial reception and subsequent reappraisal. What seems to be missing from that summary is the fact that it received an A+ CinemaScore and was considered a surprise success, especially considering how negative
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poll is an extremely major source for, if nothing else besides being judged the greatest
Christmas film of all time, this being a Christmas film (by the way, I don't drink coffee, so don't know Bob). As for possibly reverting the mention of 'Christmas Eve' in the last paragraph, please explain how
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they are common parts of discussion about that item (eg we generally include the MRSP of iPhones and other consumer products as this is part of a value aspect in critical reviews of the product). Now yes, that $ 90 VHS was expensive but that seems to be an indication of the expensiveness of VHS at
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Well, good to get the anti's addressed. The
Christmas Eve setting of the film seems essential to the plot and resolution (and is carried over into the second film), so adding it to the estranged wife first paragraph sentence defines the concept. People who visit their estranged wives do so either
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where it was deliberately priced significantly lower by the distributor to promote VCR sales and there is discussion related to that. I just don't think this is something that needs a greater degree of clarity. And I do believe I mentioned that in my edit summary to some degree, it wasn't a blank
1774:. It's true that we don't say anything to imply the price was abnormal, but (as the previous talk section demonstrates) that's what a lot of readers are going to assume if we don't provide any context. So I'm not clear on why we wouldn't? I can't find a specifically relevant policy, but there are
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Consensus seems to be to add the mention in the last lead sentence so as to not confuse readers about the
Christmas-related controversy descriptor. Have added 'Christmas Eve' to the sentence. I'm still not understanding the controversy, especially since the film "was voted the greatest Christmas
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Just one example. The Music section uses the word “song” to apply to themes in Beethoven’s compositions, which is hilarious to anyone familiar with how to write about classical music. This mistake may derive from an over-reliance on the language of modern commercial music software: Spotify, for
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LIterally the second and third sentence of the box office section: " It was considered a successful debut with a high per-theater average gross. The Los Angeles Times said that the late change in advertising focus and diminishing popularity for action films should have worked against Die Hard.
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This is a simple request, to add three words, 'on Christmas Eve', to the lead sentence "who is caught in a terrorist takeover of a Los Angeles skyscraper while visiting his estranged wife on Christmas Eve." Since many people believe that this is a Christmas film, Knowledge includes the film in
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To me this kinda reads like a film-studies essay, and a rather subjective (and at times down-right tenuous) one at that? At the least it feels like it should be written more like the critical response section, where the views are clearly attributed to published works - I don't mean just citing
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To be honest... if a majority of people started watching the Texas Chainsaw Massacre at Christmas, then a silly debate would emerge around whether it was a Christmas movie, then this debate would grow large enough to be covered by reliable secondary sources, and then we'd probably cover it in
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including vengeance, masculinity, gender roles, and American anxieties over foreign influences". I would be tempted to place a after it but won't for fear of vandalism. Or, that sentence should be removed from the opening summary and instead be included with the rest of the Thematic Analsis.
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On the other hand, if we're going to mention the infamous "is it a Christmas film" dispute in the lead, then it feels appropriate to very briefly mention the Christmas Eve setting in that part instead. Otherwise the reader might wonder what the hell triggered the debate in the first place.
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isn't enough, it also has to be relevant and clear. I too found it interesting (see previous discussion), but this interesting information should be covered in its proper place. We could put a lot of interesting information this article, like the height of the Eiffel Tower, but...
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Per the discussion above this one, it's just an interesting factoid for people who aren't even aware what a VHS is, especially when you adjust it for inflation, and it's text real estate is small. I don't feel it necessary to state it is a standard price. Unlike something like
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Thanks for tackling “song”. Now perhaps you could correct “full performance” (which means the entire work is performed in the course of the film, obviously untrue). A more accurate sentence would be, for example, “the references build to a symphonic performance of the theme”.
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This is extraordinary to me - that's almost 200 bucks adjusted for inflation. It's cited to a NYT article which does indeed give this figure, but I just want to make sure, is it possible that was an error? Maybe the home media market really was different back then.
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Literally the first sentence of the critical reception section: "Initial critical reviews of Die Hard were mixed. Audiences reacted more positively; polls by the market research firm CinemaScore found that audiences gave it an average rating of "A+" on an A+ to F
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typical for an adult-oriented, recent Hollywood release? (A reference from January 1987 doesn't really help establish a standard price for January 1989.) I understand that NOTCATALOG may discourage listing the price, anyway, but I'm interested in learning more.
1789:, could you please explain your reversion? I've undone it for now, as cited material should not be removed without discussion, but I'm open to being convinced if you can point to a policy that says we actually SHOULDN'T have all those similar examples, etc. -
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Well, I feel a little bad that this discussion ended up completely removing this point of interest from the article instead of contextualizing it, but I can't really disagree with anyone's points - this does seem like the most appropriate solution.
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to purchase the rental disc/tape to be compliant with the licensing. In the past decade, that has pretty much vanished as the only real rental business remaining is Netflix's DVD/Blu-Ray-by-mail service (yes, it
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I actually think having the Christmas movie is-it-or-isn't-it debate might warrant pulling into its own section with a sub-header within the cultural impact section, and yes I'm commenting this a year later :)
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This article boasts that some “copy editor” has worked on it. Well, not one who would get hired anywhere as any kind of copy editor. The article is full of tortured prose that needs cleaning up.
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I agree. This section reeks of ideology rather than objectivity. Obviously, it's difficult to quantify what objectivity really is when examining a film, but I feel this section will fall short.
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when the restraining order runs out or when an emotional bridge appears, and Christmastime kicks that process into higher gear (not speaking from personal experience...or am I? No, I'm not).
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This line is in the Plot section: "Meanwhile, seeing another amiss, Powell prepares to leave" It should be changed to, "Meanwhile, seeing nothing amiss, Powell prepares to leave"
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Had added Christmas Eve to the last sentence in the first paragraph "who is caught in a terrorist takeover of a Los Angeles skyscraper while visiting his estranged wife on
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Ok, so if a majority of people started watching the Texas Chainsaw Massacre at Christmas, would we start calling it a Christmas film or a film people watch at Christmas?
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This rather sounds like Die Hard's VHS price wasn't exceptional for Hollywood big budget films of the time. If so, however, we might have something to add to e.g.
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1992:. March 11, 1990. pg. 118. Available from newspapers.com.) The copy reads, "Just look at what's happened to the prices on videocassettes! Contemporary hits like
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For the record, I did find the information about the price interesting, and went down a bit of a rabbit hole because of that. If you look through the
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our thumb on the scale in favor of calling it a Christmas film. As such, at this time I'm inclined to weakly oppose adding the three little words.
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the time of its introduction, not necessarily of Die Hard itself. That would be a factoid over at the VHS article, not on Die Hard (to compare, on
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I would support this if there are reliable sources explaining the title. Not sure if it warrants its own section, so perhaps it could be woven in.
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If the price was standard for the time, then why are we talking about it in the article at all? I'm unclear as to the significance at that point.
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consider it a Christmas film, or that being set at a time of year but not being about that time of year, also does not make it a Christmas film.
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readers in 2015", which provides a very well-sourced evidence for it being a Christmas film and actually one of the greatest Christmas films.
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Christmas Eve is an obvious term and so per Overlink it doesn't need to be linked, it's like linking to China in the Box Office section.
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On reflection, I'm persuaded by Masem's point that this isn't really relevant for this article. It also tends to create confusion. It
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Any idea why this article is subject to so much vandalism today? Is there a post on reddit or something? Seems out-of-the-ordinary.
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takes place on Christmas Eve, it is also considered one of the greatest Christmas films made, though its status is disputed." --
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Apologies if I have missed it but there doesn't seem to be any explanation of the title of the film - should this be added in?
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and its affiliated companies on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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The text appears to be easily understandable to a reader. We don't generally add links for the sake of adding links.
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
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I’m not necessarily arguing for anything to be added to the article. I just think this is a fun thing to research.
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essential for the sentence that summarises the film premise — Christmas Eve has very little to do with the plot.
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example, mislabels everything from a Chopin mazurka to a movement in a Charles Ives symphony a “song”.
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Literally comparing Venom's B+ score to Die Hard's A+ and calling it an overwhelming audience score?
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was the norm for non-children VHS films and not exclusve to DH, then that would likely be hard. --
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for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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answers my question. Consider me educated! What a fascinating bit of movie history I never knew.
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answers the question of whether readers think it's a Christmas movie. Yippie ho ho ho...
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If anyone's interested, I found a CBS Video Club ad that indicates the retail price of
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back into the "visiting his estranged wife" descriptor in the lead paragraph. Thanks.
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This is of low importance for American cinema? Seems very wrong and inaccurate to me.
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section refers to adding Christmas Eve to the first paragraph sentence quoted above.
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Instead, positive reviews and the limited release had made it a "must-see" film."
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That's why I add that kind of thing, I think it is interesting.
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would you describe the consensus of this lagging discussion?
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exists as on 2021), so it is no longer really enforced. The
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interesting but this isn't the place for the information.
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see these 2018-2022 n-grams if there is still doubt
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2004:have been reduced from $ 89.95 to $ 19.95!"
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2291:13:18, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
2276:13:00, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
2262:) I'd like to propose adding
2244:17:38, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
2221:09:10, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
2099:12:00, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
1705:18:38, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
1692:15:43, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
1673:12:12, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
1653:16:37, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
1631:05:53, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
1576:08:12, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
1551:04:52, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
1522:07:45, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
1494:12:42, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
1474:21:09, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
1443:04:48, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
1425:23:21, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
1409:21:07, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
1393:16:30, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
1174:20th Century Studios articles
1162:and see a list of open tasks.
1081:This article is supported by
879:and see a list of open tasks.
812:This article is supported by
773:Template:WikiProject Holidays
764:and see a list of open tasks.
555:This article is supported by
491:and see a list of open tasks.
42:Put new text under old text.
2674:FA-Class California articles
2522:12:18, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
2503:12:14, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
2480:11:54, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
1758:16:29, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
1745:14:46, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
1726:14:44, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
891:Library of Congress articles
7:
2734:FA-Class Christmas articles
2624:Knowledge featured articles
2459:13:43, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
2435:13:32, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
2420:12:59, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
2198:to reactivate your request.
2186:has been answered. Set the
1615:to reactivate your request.
1603:has been answered. Set the
1143:20th Century Studios portal
558:Los Angeles area task force
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
10:
2840:
2724:FA-Class Holidays articles
2609:10:01, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
2586:03:31, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
1504:I count 84(!) uses of the
1305:Wikipedians in California
1194:project's importance scale
1049:project's importance scale
796:project's importance scale
684:American cinema task force
657:Knowledge:WikiProject Film
550:Greater Los Angeles portal
523:project's importance scale
352:Featured article candidate
333:Featured article candidate
2719:WikiProject Film articles
2163:12:00, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
1990:San Bernardino County Sun
1947:The thing is, just being
1356:was copied or moved into
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1863:11:36, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
1844:02:20, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
1814:02:09, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
1799:23:28, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
984:United States of America
815:the Christmas task force
259:Today's featured article
2644:FA-Class vital articles
2408:List of Christmas films
1829:Video game monetization
1285:It is requested that a
1220:Other talk page banners
2704:FA-Class film articles
2574:Dead Men Tell No Tales
2133:It was TFA yesterday.
2002:The Accidental Tourist
1891:SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE!
1860:SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE!
1818:The police to this is
1755:SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE!
1702:SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE!
1422:SEXY ACTION TALK PAGE!
1281:
1061:
1029:United States articles
808:
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474:WikiProject California
75:avoid personal attacks
1358:Die Hard (soundtrack)
1308:may be able to help!
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395:level-5 vital article
314:Guild of Copy Editors
100:Neutral point of view
2028:Videotape format war
1885:Ok I've removed it .
1360:. The former page's
1320:and other web sites.
1261:relevant style guide
1257:varieties of English
1165:20th Century Studios
1156:20th Century Studios
1112:20th Century Studios
971:United States portal
753:WikiProject Holidays
295:Good article nominee
105:No original research
1900:1988 Sears Wishbook
1770:I was surprised by
1366:provide attribution
1314:WordPress Openverse
1299:improve its quality
1297:in this article to
1259:. According to the
997:Articles Requested!
882:Library of Congress
872:Library of Congress
843:Library of Congress
633:join the discussion
503:California articles
239:Knowledge community
2546:Community Tech bot
1312:The external tool
1282:
1062:
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536:
404:content assessment
270:Article milestones
86:dispute resolution
47:
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2149:Importance rating
1619:
1618:
1578:
1566:comment added by
1553:
1541:comment added by
1476:
1464:comment added by
1453:Thematic analysis
1381:this can of worms
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635:and see lists of
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466:California portal
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66:Assume good faith
43:
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2601:Darkwarriorblake
2559:Public reception
2539:Paul Gleason.jpg
2496:Darkwarriorblake
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2387:So yes, Virginia
2312:Darkwarriorblake
2284:Darkwarriorblake
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2209:Anthropomorphism
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2119:
2091:
2085:last Blockbuster
2038:
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1887:Darkwarriorblake
1856:Darkwarriorblake
1836:
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1785:Darkwarriorblake
1751:Darkwarriorblake
1733:this Quora reply
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1640:
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1240:American English
1236:This article is
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364:Featured article
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347:
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309:
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261:on May 13, 2021.
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229:featured article
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1344:
1326:
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1265:broad consensus
1214:
1190:High-importance
1173:
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1115:High‑importance
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743:
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652:
618:
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563:High-importance
548:
543:
541:
502:
499:
496:
493:
492:
464:
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457:
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402:on Knowledge's
399:
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326:January 3, 2021
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307:August 17, 2020
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1851:Trading Places
1846:
1820:WP:NOT#CATALOG
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1454:
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1160:the discussion
1147:
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1117:
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1089:Top-importance
1080:
1079:
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1045:Mid-importance
1041:
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1015:
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991:Template Usage
987:
975:
974:
958:
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943:Mid‑importance
931:
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903:
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877:the discussion
861:
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840:
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810:
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792:Low-importance
788:
782:
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749:
748:
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720:
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717:Low‑importance
705:
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623:
607:
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570:
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519:Mid-importance
515:
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489:the discussion
470:
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440:
438:Mid‑importance
426:
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413:
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366:
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1562:— Preceding
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19:This is the
2570:Mario movie
2342:WP:OVERLINK
2324:Knowledge.
2060:Elmer Clark
1949:interesting
1791:Elmer Clark
1401:SportsGuy17
1238:written in
1076:Film portal
620:Film portal
434:Los Angeles
148:free images
31:not a forum
2618:Categories
2514:Randy Kryn
2490:The Batman
2472:Randy Kryn
2412:Randy Kryn
2391:Randy Kryn
2372:Popcornfud
2346:Popcornfud
2326:Popcornfud
2298:Randy Kryn
2268:Randy Kryn
2188:|answered=
2090:al-Shimoni
1954:Popcornfud
1873:Popcornfud
1737:Popcornfud
1718:Popcornfud
1623:Walter Wpg
1605:|answered=
1510:full stops
1500:Semicolons
1435:Randy Kryn
1287:photograph
649:guidelines
637:open tasks
494:California
484:California
479:U.S. state
429:California
319:Copyedited
234:identified
2494:greater.
2232:Not done:
2105:Vandalism
1776:countless
1766:VHS price
1514:Sizeofint
1506:semicolon
713:Christmas
398:is rated
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2444:Die Hard
2155:Zedd1997
1998:Die Hard
1986:Die Hard
1908:Die Hard
1854:revert.
1779:examples
1564:unsigned
1539:unsigned
1462:unsigned
1429:I think
1414:WP:UNDUE
1353:Die Hard
1295:included
1253:traveled
767:Holidays
758:holidays
708:Holidays
591:American
400:FA-class
357:Promoted
225:Die Hard
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
25:Die Hard
2592:scale."
2427:DonIago
2236:DonIago
2205:WP:PIPE
1806:DonIago
1688:contrib
1665:McPhail
1645:DonIago
1362:history
1249:defense
1192:on the
1047:on the
909:on the
794:on the
521:on the
278:Process
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
2568:, the
2509:Empire
2468:Empire
2000:, and
1824:unless
1527:Song?!
1385:NickCT
1327:Upload
1318:Flickr
1013:Alerts
939:Cinema
406:scale.
300:Listed
281:Result
126:Google
2578:jonas
2566:Venom
2192:|ans=
2182:This
2081:still
2006:Zagal
1994:Twins
1968:Zagal
1913:Zagal
1659:Title
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1599:This
1245:color
387:This
227:is a
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
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1731:OK,
1722:talk
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1184:High
654:Film
639:and
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275:Date
162:FENS
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2364:not
2344:).
2190:or
2136:DaĂź
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