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1678:, and they don't capitalize "governor" when it means "the representative of the Crown in a British colony" and "The representative of the British Crown in a colony or in a Commonwealth state", so your argument that "Governor in this case is capitalized as the representative of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II" doesn't appear to hold water. If you ignore all dictionaries and Knowledge's Manual of Style, I will not be able to reason with you.
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is disputed then use the sourced unit. By these means you are trying to get sourced units as primary regardless of whether the sourced units are the most appropriate units to the
Falklands or not. You're trying to use the letter of the rules to overrule the spirit of the rule. IOW, you're trying to game the system; to Wikilawyer. And you can't expect us not to call you up on it.
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units regardless of whether MOSNUM supports them or not (and it doesn't) and one who shows up occasionally when this gets discussed insisting that we have to use metric units regardless of whether MOSNUM supports it or not in this case (and it doesn't). And bear in mind what the standing consensus is - imperial-first.
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to not '"over-defer" to specialized works on matters, like style, that are actually beyond the specialization's scope.' The government of the
Falkland Islands may require its employees to conform to a certain style of writing, but cannot require Knowledge to do so. Its wishes do not trump Knowledge's
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Now if you want to count the figures here as three to one, so be it, but there is the part of MOSNUM policy that says, "If editors cannot agree on the sequence of units, put the source value first and the converted value second. If the choice of units is arbitrary, use SI units as the main unit, with
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As the
Falkland Islands is a UK territory, you would expect the articles to be predominantly in metrics. At the moment, three editors have spoken for Imperial, and I have spoken for following the sources. I think it is unfortunate that people are taking a stand which I think is becoming less and less
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I disagree that it is better for inter-article consistency to have
Imperial measures. Metric measures predominate in other British islands in the Atlantic Ocean, so if we talk about consistency, metric is the logical choice. I don't add information to articles unless I have reliable information, so I
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The spirit of the rule is that we use the most appropriate unit to the
Falklands, that all else is just a means of getting to it. You're saying that you dispute every single unit on every single article related to the Falklands that isn't the sourced unit, and that the guideline says that if a unit
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Agree with Justin on "pro-Imperialists". This is an offensive and uncalled-for accusation that you should withdraw at once. And I also agree with Justin on the facts of the matter. We have three people who consistently support the current consensus, you who insist that we have to use source-based
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Justin has recently changed the order of units, putting the
Imperial measures first. He has stated two reasons for this: consistency and consensus. I believe that the order of units should generally follow the sources, and this would generally mean that the metric measures would come first. I can't
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For topics strongly associated with places, times or people, put the units most appropriate to them first. For example, US articles generally put United States customary units first. UK articles more often put metric units first, but imperial units may be put first in some contexts. These include:
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offensive, then of course I apologise and withdraw it at once. It wasn't meant to offend, and was a simple play on words. In the same spirit, I would also ask Justin to withdraw all his remarks that I found offensive and apologise for them, too. That's fair, isn't it? I mean, we wouldn't want the
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To all, there is an increasing problem in sticking to
Imperial measures. For one thing, all imperial is out of step with modern British practice, which uses a mixture of units. Secondly, it is increasingly at odds with the sources of information available, as more information becomes available in
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Pfainuk, It seems that you read the policy one way and I read it another. If you regard that as
Wikilawyering, then so be it. However there is one thing I do understand and that is most of the talk about which units to use has been a debate between you me and Justin. I think we need to ask for a
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The reason they're mostly metric-first is largely because you put them like that over the last few days. When you say the "preference of editors", the only thing this apparently refers to is your own preference. And I find it a bit disingenuous of you to imply otherwise. In
Falklands articles
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Yet another straw poll? After the 2 occasions in 2009 that this has come up and the consensus has been to stick with imperial first? And really, the fact that it was inconsistent before is no reason to perpetuate it. Its quite frustrating to hear you argue for consistency when you want metric
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Justin, what part of "You should know better" don't you understand? You have admitted your comments were out of line and you have changed them, so your comment about my sensitivity is disingenuous. As I have clearly stated, I won't accept abuse from you. Abusive comments are not in good faith.
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The history of the article clearly reveals that it began with metric units. Acres were only used to specify the area of
Lafonia and this was a later addition. When Justin and I both began editing this article it used a mixture of units. Both of us edited the article, but while my changes were
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is that you have the numbers. However, I draw attention to the fact that others have also spoken in favour of both your position and mine. There's a difference between an apparent majority and a consensus. Perhaps we should test whether your position is indeed the majority position.
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see any evidence that this matter was discussed in relation to this article so I am not sure how Justin arrived at his conclusion that there was a consensus for this change. The history record suggests that the article has been metric first for at least a year before he changed it.
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article are metric, and have been metric for many months. Yes, I added one more reference - to the length of the coastline. As you were happy to accept the information - provided that the Imperial figure came first - it appears that you accepted the source as reliable.
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In January 2010, my preference is still imperial first and there is still a clear consensus to support that. You know this is getting to be obsessional on your part revisiting it all the time. It isn't anything to do with best practise, that is solely your opinion.
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Imperial Units are British units, not sure even the US is so culturally imperialistic as to claim they're US units. For info, I was referring to the concensus on Falkland Islands. It seems foolish to have one rule for that article and a different one for this.
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When Justin made his first edit, in October 2007, the first sentence still described the area of the island with square kilometres first and square miles in brackets. The height of Mt Usbourne was also listed as being 705m before the figure in feet was given.
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does not discuss capitalization of offices and job titles, so I don't see why you think that it also confirms your choice of capitalization. By the way, Anglicize (usually capitalized), Sanforize (always capitalized), Christianize (always capitalized) ...
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why some UK editors are insisting on making the old US units the main ones. Is it a hearking back to the days of the British Empire? I note that the BBC has completely switched to metric units on its documentaries (David Attenbrough et al.). What
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Actually we have 3 people who have regularly and consistently supported the current consensus, one who disagrees and has tried to impose their own solution, and one person who drops in out of the blue to say metric but never really edits in the
773:, where consensus is to use Imperial first, to this article and it wouldn't look odd if it were reversed? I happen to think it would, which is why I changed it. Last time I checked EU policy had not been widely adopted on Knowledge.
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So, you're announcing that you disagree with the consensus, therefore editors cannot agree, therefore your preference has to be adopted. That's a blatant attempt to game the system and you should not expect others to put up with it.
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When I first came to it this article was metric first in the opening paragraph. Any changes I made were based on the sources. All that, however, is history. If people want it source based or Metric or Imperial or a mixture, so be it.
1621:; Knowledge does not capitalize offices, titles and positions unless followed by a person's name to form a title, as in "Governor Johnson". Please fix this. And I see absolutely no reason to change "Hispanicised" to lower case.
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It's now January 2010 and there are five references to measurements in the article that have been reversed in order from the metric original to put Imperial measures first. I believe that it is time to rethink this arrangement.
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why some UK editors are insisting on making the old US units the main ones. Is it a hearking back to the days of the British Empire?" I took that to impugn the motives of other editors, perhaps they just prefer it that way.
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Justin, I note that you have not apologised for your other offensive remarks. My action in complaining to an administrator, who issued you a "You should know better" notice was clearly justified. As for your complaint about
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Michael, fortunately I am in posession of a sense of humour and thick-skinned enough that I simply found your attempt at provocation amusing. You'll note I didn't feel the need to run away bravely demanding admin action.
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The argument for inter-article consistency falls down as various Falklands Islands articles are both in metric or Imperial units or in a mixture of units, depending on the preference of editors and the sources of the
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article applies to this article. This article has a separate history, and imposing Imperial first on the article goes against it. So far I have seen no evidence that there is any reason to change it from what it was.
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If editors cannot agree on the sequence of units, put the source value first and the converted value second. If the choice of units is arbitrary, use SI units as the main unit, with converted units in parentheses.
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I am puzzled that Justin claims that the original area of the island was given in acres. The history of the article clearly shows that from the very first, the area of the island was given in square kilometres.
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adopted on Knowledge, it would have no bearing on this discussion. The current policy is that the EU is happy for the UK to continue the use of imperial units indefinitely. You (Tony) may wish to reread our
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1551:; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
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Justin, I haven't dropped in "out of the blue". After our interaction here last year, when you were witheringly rude to me, I've kept an eye on this and related pages. 03:34, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
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attack, may I first of all suggest you are less sensitive in future and secondly suggest that you think of accepting comments in good faith rather than seeing insinuations that were never there.
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thinks that the verb "Hispanicised" should be capitalized. That's good enough for me; why isn't it good enough for you? And as for capitalizing "governor", the dictionaries I cited are
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make no apology for editing Falklands articles or other articles. I certainly don't change the order of information unless I have reliable information that would warrant such a change.
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Actually in British English, Governor in this case is capitalized as the representative of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. Please explain why you think a verb should be capitalised?
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where this has been discussed, imperial-first is the existing consensus - and for the sake of inter-article consistency it's better that we keep with that standard across the board.
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Actually the article had imperial first the area was specified in acres. You added figures to the lead. I'm simply arguing for consistency not a bastardised mix. I have
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and in British English the title Governor is capitalized because the Governor is the Queen's representative, acting in a capacity that is effectively the Head of State.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20131029191527/http://www.epd.gov.fk/wp-content/uploads/Falkland%20Islands%20State%20of%20the%20Environment%20Report%202008_final_sm.pdf
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Ryan4314, thank you for expressing your opinion. However, I should note that this article is all-Imperial because it was changed this way early in August 2009.
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I suspect it's just that the majority of the population on the islands is in Stanley, which was built on the convenient natural harbour on East Falkland.
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Justin, You appear to be conducting a personal vendetta on this matter. I suggest that you take a break from it. I've got one word to say to you:
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should also be considered. It is a basic grammar rule that verbs are not capitalised, you appear to have found an exception I was unaware of.
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comment except to draw your attention to the example of Pfainuk, who can disagree with other editors without lowering himself in that way.
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When I first edited the article in 2005, the area of the island was described in square kilometres with no conversion to square miles
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Two editors spoke for metric first; three spoke for the change to Imperial. That's not a clear consensus. I will not respond to your
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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Yeah - we've already had two of these in the last few months, and the second only finished last week. We don't need another one.
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As I point out above there is a clear and compelling reason why. Claiming this article is separate and distinct is disingenuous.
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Except in the cases mentioned below, put the units first that are in the most widespread use in the world. Usually, these are
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Pfainuk, drawing attention to the policy and taking it at its word is not gaming the system. What you are saying by the word
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article, where the order of the units was discussed, there was no discussion here about the order of the units until now.
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http://www.epd.gov.fk/wp-content/uploads/Falkland%20Islands%20State%20of%20the%20Environment%20Report%202008_final_sm.pdf
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situation to arise where people are prepared to dish out offensive remarks, but are not prepared to take them, would we?
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for some measurements, such as years for long periods of time or the use of feet in describing the altitude of aircraft.
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metric measures. It is just silly to find information in metric measures and change it into Imperial. The policy states:
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My questions are: What units do the Falklanders themselves use? Which units do they prefer and use in everyday life?
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wider range of opinions than that. Then we would be in a better position to decide how people feel about this issue.
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as 600,000 acres. Therefore at the point where Justin began editing this article, it was using a mixture of units.
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It was different for years before. Anyway, as you know, I have put another straw poll on the other article as well.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Should we fix on one system (either Imperial or Metric) and if so, how strictly should we apply this principle?
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Yes, that would make sense. I'm wondering about the prevailing winds down there - are they north-westerlies?
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To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant
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Witheringly rude? Thanks, I can add that to my list of epithets. What exactly have you contributed then?
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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As I understand the rules, the policy on the order of units is decided on an article by article basis.
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attack deeply offensive and will report you to the appropriate authorities my little metric warrior.
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the consensus was to maintain that. The place to argue for a site wide policy is at the talk page on
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Various other websites agree the prevailing winds are westerlies, so Stanley is generally sheltered.
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That sounds to me like a strong argument that US units should be in conversion, not the main units.
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Miles for distances, miles per hour for road speeds and miles per imperial gallon for fuel economy
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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https://web.archive.org/web/20100301063015/http://www.falklands.info/background/census2001t.html
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or dictionaries but the examples you've given don't actually contradict and with regard to MOS,
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Pfainuk, I think your comment above is rather misleading. A clear majority of the references in
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Why are there so many more people on East Falkland than the West? Is the reason meteorological?
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With imperial units which are not also US customary units, double conversions can be useful:
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We now have three pro-Imperialists, one pro sources and one pro metric. Any other opinions?
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The article began with metric measures and it was only changed to all Imperial last year.
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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https://web.archive.org/web/20100305135425/http://www.falklands.gov.fk/Location.html
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you have just admitted that you took it as a joke, so your indignation was feigned.
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The exception is a historical reference (with no link to the source of information).
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The article had imperial first until you changed it. And as you've acknowledged on
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Justin made some edits in January 2008 but did not alter the units of measurements
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converted units in parentheses." It is also possible that others might comment.
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800:. I say reread because I believe I have mentioned that article to you before.
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then you may need to upload it to Knowledge (Commons does not allow fair use)
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This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image
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The song's second verse reveals that Rosie weighs 19 stone (266Â lb; 121Â kg).
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There is no clear consensus for this change, as the above discussion shows.
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Stick with one system, Imperial first and apply it throughout the article.
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Feet/inches and stones/pounds for personal height and weight measurements
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why people feel the need to impugn the motives of other editors either.
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An example, as I said in this context Governor would be capitalised.
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consistent with the original style of the article and were footnoted
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Right, just so I understand it, you go from the main article on the
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I don't think so ... not since the EU rightly insisted on movement.
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No, "governor" is not a proper noun in any variety of English; see
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I have never edited this article. Have you got the right person?
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Comparison of the imperial and US customary measurement systems
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I think it best to ask them, rather then assume something. --
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It's not the US. The main units should definitely be metric.
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a 2,000-foot (610 m) hill with a 650-metre (2,100 ft) hill.
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a 600-metre (2000 ft) hill with a 650-metre (2,100 ft) hill
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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I agree that this article should follow the consensus on
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his were based on other considerations. Also, unlike the
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Michael Glass's reasons seem good enough for me. I have
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High-importance British Overseas Territories articles
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http://www.falklands.info/background/census2001t.html
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1210:Well, Michael may I respectfully refer you to
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969:A clear majority of references are metric.
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511:16:12, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
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252:project's importance scale
141:project's importance scale
1980:Falkland Islands articles
1792:07:29, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
1766:01:48, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
1747:Capitalization in English
1729:19:50, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
1694:16:14, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
1660:06:53, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
1637:14:05, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
1213:. Have a nice day now.
980:What do people feel now?
304:
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1990:C-Class Islands articles
1806:External links modified
1611:oxforddictionaries.com
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28:This article is rated
1745:Manual of Style. And
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491:Talk:Falkland Islands
263:
90:United Kingdom portal
1875:regular verification
1740:Heed the warning in
1532:File:Bunker-Gada.jpg
201:Latin America portal
1865:After February 2018
335:WikiProject Islands
1919:InternetArchiveBot
1870:InternetArchiveBot
1672:Collins Dictionary
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1667:Wee Curry Monster
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40:WikiProjects
1759:the speller
1687:the speller
1630:the speller
1617:. Also see
1549:Don't panic
1392:Imperialist
1165:style guide
497:not here.
419:Warofdreams
393:Warofdreams
377:Settlements
1939:Categories
1926:Report bug
1262:ad hominem
1036:ad hominem
1017:ad hominem
479:GREENSTUFF
1909:this tool
1902:this tool
1772:WP:ENGVAR
1709:WP:ENGVAR
1399:consensus
1156:See also
495:WP:MOSNUM
169:Falklands
1915:Cheers.—
1557:non-free
1160:and the
632:"I have
1819:my edit
1441:Pfainuk
1371:Pfainuk
1290:Pfainuk
1089:Pfainuk
932:Pfainuk
828:Pfainuk
676:Lafonia
634:no idea
573:Pfainuk
537:no idea
349:Islands
340:islands
299:Islands
250:on the
139:on the
30:C-class
1742:WP:SSF
1705:WP:MOS
1490:(talk)
1420:Justin
1346:Justin
1267:Justin
1241:(talk)
1216:Justin
1185:, not
1041:Justin
999:Justin
910:Justin
875:Justin
776:Justin
761:(talk)
736:Justin
720:(talk)
640:Justin
624:(talk)
599:Justin
568:WP:AGF
554:(talk)
500:Justin
407:Bastie
383:Bastie
36:scale.
1788:email
1754:Chris
1725:email
1682:Chris
1656:email
1625:Chris
1257:area.
1613:and
1585:talk
1507:talk
1484:Tony
1464:talk
1447:talk
1426:talk
1408:talk
1377:talk
1352:talk
1323:talk
1296:talk
1273:talk
1235:Tony
1222:talk
1201:talk
1106:this
1095:talk
1077:talk
1071:4314
1068:Ryan
1059:over
1047:talk
1025:talk
1005:talk
986:talk
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881:talk
863:talk
834:talk
782:talk
755:Tony
742:talk
714:Tony
701:talk
646:talk
618:Tony
605:talk
579:talk
548:Tony
526:talk
506:talk
462:talk
423:talk
397:talk
131:High
1883:RfC
1853:to
1843:to
1833:to
793:was
684:.
242:Low
1941::
1896:.
1891:}}
1887:{{
1587:)
1579:--
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167::
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1911:.
1904:.
1783:M
1780:C
1777:W
1738::
1734:@
1720:M
1717:C
1714:W
1669::
1665:@
1651:M
1648:C
1645:W
1607::
1603:@
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42::
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