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local findings). This is why folklore played a major part in
Germany before the founding of the national state (Empire, 1871) and then again after 1918, when the weak Republic of Weimar had to reestablish a common feeling of belonging. Forerunner in this was the catholic Center Party with its high influence on cultural policy and, regionally, universities. This explains why after 1918 folklore was established at the universities and a very far-reaching and expensive research project was developed: the Atlas der deutschen Volkskunde. Atlas-folkloristics was basically identical with the historical-geographical method, but transferred the method from narratives and songs to different matters like customs and material objects. But Atlasses were from organizational reasons more limited than fairy-tale research, and so the neighbouring states - like Switzerland, the Netherlands and Sweden - began their own Atlasses. The scientific start in the Weimar Republic reached its peak in the Mid-Thirties, when two handbooks and a dictionary appeared, but above all the first comprehensive book about methodology: Adolf Bach's "Deutsche Volkskunde". Bach is the most modern thinker here, relying heavily on experiences in linguistic and cultural geography, but also introducing themes which in those days were much debated internationally, like collective mentality and genetical differences (two paths which seemed to lead nowhere and were left after the war).
1118:. Next: this article has all the hallmarks of a personal essay and, in its current state, belongs on a blog, not on Knowledge. The article slips in and out of the imperative ("Compare this to brushing your teeth"), long sections contain no references, primary sources are used throughout. The article contains a bizarre section called "Hijacked by the Nazis". Opinion serves as fact throughout. For some reason there's a repeated, major focus on American folklore. The article contains phrases such as "In Scandinavia, intellectuals were also searching for their authentic Teutonic roots" and "This law also marks a shift in our national awareness; it gives voice to the national understanding that diversity within the country is a unifying feature, not something that separates us." Yeah, okay.
1224:• For some reason there's a repeated, major focus on American folklore. I addressed this criticism by adding references to the fields of Folklore in Great Britain and Europe. “It became established as a field across both Europe and North America, coordinating with Volkskunde (German), folkermimne (Norwegian), and folkminnen (Swedish) among others.” This is an indirect quote from Brunvand, Jan Harald, ed. (1996). American Folklore, an Encyclopedia. New York, London: Garland Publishing, pg. 286. Each country will have its own specific issues to investigate. I assume that the entries in the wikipedias in each of these languages will be more specific about the challenges in their particular regions and countries.
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The Nazis were not much interested in folklore, they preferred branches like historical demography. The Atlas project was bluntly finished with the least care possible. German folkloristics had reached a certain peak in the Mid-Thirties, but even if German and Nazi institutions had some influence in foreign countries, they didn't attempt to make known the scholarly handbooks, dictionaries or Bach's methodology - the one and only book of the 1930's which was propagized internationally and shaped the image of folklore in
Germany was a quite marginal publication: Matthes Ziegler: "Volkskunde auf rassischer Grundlage" (1939).
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racist. That's not an unreasonable argument, but the problem is I don't even know if that is the argument. There's also the fact that the section attributes this to "Cultural Study" scholars, but the only article referenced is by a fellow named
Debaprasad Bandyopadhyay of the Indian Statistical Institute. I'm not saying this person is not a legitimate academic, and it seems he does write in a cultural studies vein, but without more references showing his view is representative of them, I think this point should be attributed to him personally, not him as a voice of Cultural Studies.
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article was too focused on
American folkloristics, I then added the common names for the field used in Britain. In selecting the term folkloristics as primary, I created redirects from other terms which were applicable. In the note_1 included in the top paragraph, I reference the discussion between Dundes and Bronner during 1970s - 1980s about the best name for this field of studies. If the experts can't agree, I find it understandable that we might also want to examine the terminology that works best. Smithriedel 21:26, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
1218:• The article contains a section called "Hijacked by the Nazis". This section was added in response to a flag on the article that it was too focused on American folklore. This new section describes the historical development in Germany, where the profession of Volkskundler was taken over by the National Socialists to justify and shore up their political agenda. It has taken decades for the field of German Volkskunde to recover from their connection with the racist ideology of the Nazis.
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437:) but the page on ethnology does not reflect this at all and is purely concerned with ethnology in the anthropological sense. There needs to be some kind of reference to this article. Are there any folklorists here at all? I am a graduate student of folkloristics but I would prefer that someone whose native language is English would handle rewrite this article. If no-one can be found here I'll try to find someone to do it.--
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original one. The lists included in the earlier version were moved to list pages, as is appropriate. I would suggest that we start with the longer version, and anything that feels like personal opinion we talk through one by one. The field of
Folkloristics is not Mythology, which I see by your personal page is your specialty. Perhaps we need to start with that clarification. Smithriedel 12:00, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
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focus on
American folklore. The article contains phrases such as "In Scandinavia, intellectuals were also searching for their authentic Teutonic roots" and "This law also marks a shift in our national awareness; it gives voice to the national understanding that diversity within the country is a unifying feature, not something that separates us." Is this OK?
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rubbing elbows with each other, mixing and matching into exciting combinations as new generations come up.)” I also noticed at least one example of weasel words: “ The United States is known as a land of immigrants…” Although I may be mistaken, and I apologize if I am, I think this is a possible area of improvement with the article.
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I would be very willing to respond to specific issues in the article and make corrections. Bloodofox has already given a short list to start on above; I will either make corrections that he has suggested or give reasons why the text is shaped as it is. Currently on another project, but I will pick up
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The article slips in and out of the imperative ("Compare this to brushing your teeth"), long sections contain no references, primary sources are used throughout. The article contains a section called "Hijacked by the Nazis". Opinion serves as fact throughout. For some reason there's a repeated, major
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I fear that the distinction between folklore (the popular repository of folk knowledge, tales, herb lore, etc.) and mythography (literally: "the writing of myths") (myths being the tales that connect a people to their past (and often their future), their lands, and each other--much more frequently an
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Now what's the impact of the Nazis? For a part, the Nazis simply followed the Weimar tradition. In their first years, they made some political improvements, which were duly hailed by some folklorists. On the long run, most folklorists looked at the "politisation" of the universities as a nuisance.
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The article frequently uses language that is not in keeping with the encyclopedic tone of voice used in
Knowledge articles. For one, The language is often too flowery. Here are some examples: “(This law was added to the panoply…, Then came the 1930s…, this country represents a trove of cultures
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Folklore was mostly appreciated by young and weak national states without much of an acknowledged common tradition. In these countries folklore often became loaded wirh the task to shape a common feeling of belonging (notwithstanding the fact that folklorists were more apt to describe particular
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Very inadequate and incomplete. It needs a summary of the history of the discipline which begins in Europe with J. G. Herder and the Grimm brothers (known for fairy tales and dictionary). Here we have two lists limited to North
America. Folklore studies have an interesting history in the British
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In writing this article I had to choose between several names, all of which were used to describe the study of folklore. The first sentence does not say that "folklore studies" is more common than "folkloristics", it says it is also used for this field of studies. In response to a flag that the
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This section is far too long, unclear, and loaded down with jargon to the extent of being unreadable my a non-expert (i.e. sastriya-loukika, exonym, subject-position). The sense I get is that this is an argument that concepts like folklore and anthropology are dehumanizing and probably somewhat
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I have addressed all the specific issues that were raised about style of the article. If there are no more comments or concerns, I will remove the flag at the top about a complete rewrite in a few days. If there are concerns about this, please add them here to the discussion. thanks, 14:16, 13
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I am reverting back to the longer version. It is not a personal essay but instead contains valuable information on the history and current understanding of the field of studies. I was very careful in rewriting the article from the original one to include all real facts and information from the
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So another user has moved the page from
Folklore studies to Folkloristics again. I'm just here to review redirects so I'm going to confirm the redirect as "I guess it works", but I'm leaving this note to explain why this change has happened in case anyone is wondering what happens and wants to
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Horrible article. I am no good at doing things
Knowledge style so I was hoping someone could help me. First of all folkloristics is sometimes, even often, known simply as folklore. For Knowledge it is convenient that we use folkloristics as the main article but we also need something in the
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What a long undifferentiated list. Can anyone select out the most important names, work them into a paragraph and retitle the list "Other folklorists include? Or can a one-line synopsis of the named folklorist's contribution be added to the name? I'm not competent, or I'd do it myself.
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This article is currently a bad article. Someone shouldimprove it, remove the unnecessary biographical information and go into more detail analysis. Mythography is a different discipline. Just because the article is bad now doesn't make it redundant. It needs expansion not
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Noticed the proposal to merge mythography and folkloristics and 2 opposes on this page. Agree it is merging two topics and already too broad, if anything narrow it not broaden into covering mythography as well. I think consensus reached to taking off the merge idea now.
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the comments as soon as possible and add my discussion here. I do maintain that this topic belongs in the portal Folklore, not Mythology. Mythology is a different field of study and needs to be handled in its own article. Smithriedel 14:28, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
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Next, you write "The field of Folkloristics is not Mythology, which I see by your personal page is your specialty". Gee, you don't say. You might want to dig a little deeper into user's contributions before making general statements like that
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It is redundant because there's already a category for it. I'm removing the list since it already exists in a far superior state, and then the rest of the article can be debated over (it's just a list of "references" now).
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Isles and continental Europe and are particularly strong in the smaller nations established from the 19th century on e.g. Scandinavia, eastern Europe. Here they got well supported by the goverments of those countries.----
1221:• Opinion serves as fact throughout. I would need specific examples of this. I have used extensive footnoting to document where the different viewpoints come from, referencing well-known academics across the field.
1212:• long sections contain no references, I have frequently used a footnote at the end of a paragraph to reference the text above it. That seemed better than trying to footnote each sentence with the same reference.
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1215:• primary sources are used throughout. I would need to know where this represents a problem. As sources, I have used multiple standard textbooks on the subject area. These I do not consider primary sources.
1230:• "This law also marks a shift in our national awareness; it gives voice to the national understanding that diversity within the country is a unifying feature, not something that separates us."
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1187:- Summoned by bot. I think rather than an RfC, this would be better addressed by listing each of your points of contention and then opening up the conversation for editors to discuss.
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at just about every corner. I'm going to be reverting the previous version back but there may be material that we can pull from this version with the appropriate checks in place.
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I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not.
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In the text, I have added reference for this, which is taken from the mission statement of the Smithsonian Institution. Smithriedel 17:29, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
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Here are corrections and comments to the specific issues raised by Foxoblood above. I am very glad to continue to improve this article given appropriate input.
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It looks like a wave of edits has converted this article into a personal essay. While it needed to be rewritten, this isn't an improvement: it violates
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Why is this article called by something which the very first sentence admits is the less usual name? Why not call it "Folklore Studies"? --
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As I've requested these problems be addressed and they still remain, I'll soon be preparing for a total rewrite of this page that meets
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Strong Against. Without question this entry needs to be improved, but Mythography and Folkloreism are two distinct disciplines.
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Yeah, and doesn't "folklorist" also refer to oral historians and compilers of folktales, not just theorists? I'd expect to see
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article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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oral tradition than a written one) might be lost if such a merger is carried out. Please comment.--
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disambiguation page for folklore to point here. Another term for folkloristics is ethnology (see:
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982:) 20:08, 4 March 2017 (UTC) Agree - visited this talk page only to make the same point. Weird.
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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
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Thanks; I've moved the page back to the more common term because the move was not discussed.
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Studies in Estonian Folkloristics and Ethnology: A Reader and Reflexive History
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of
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American Folklore Scholarship: a Dialogue of Dissent.
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Finally, to sign your talk page posts, use ''~~~~''.
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Georges, Robert A., and Michael Owen Jones. (1995).
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American Folklore Studies: An Intellectual History.
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725:"Wisconsin"
486:Mythography
439:Ă“li Gneisti
256:WikiProject
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148:free images
31:not a forum
1584:Categories
1361:Report bug
1189:Meatsgains
1007:this ngram
1003:this ngram
520:Radagast83
272:discussion
1527:AnomieBOT
1409:Rheinvolk
1344:this tool
1337:this tool
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
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1350:Cheers.—
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753:(Canada)
717:"Oregon"
508:removal.
405:PrimeBOT
277:Folklore
260:folklore
228:Folklore
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1507:|last2=
1471:12 July
1466:Esquire
1274:my edit
1185:Comment
1112:WP:NPOV
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574:Notes
169:JSTOR
130:books
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1572:talk
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1518:link
1511:help
1473:2019
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262:and
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