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Stephenson's lamp and the one based on the fact that the town of
Newcastle stood out against the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745, and in favour of King George. Both theories only seem to be based on anecdotal evidence which is fairly insubstantial. A lot seems to depend on the earliest recorded date in which the term "Geordie" was used. I don't personally favour either explanation, apart from the fact that the earliest use of the term "Geordie" was restricted to people from Newcastle and was only later extended to people from Tyneside. Given that north-east miners were spread all over the region, if they all used George Stephenson's lamp, why would Geordies be restricted to Newcastle? I think that the Knowledge article on "Geordie" covers the question adequately without coming down on either side. I don't suggest that the idea of George Stephenson giving his name to the Geordies is wrong, but I am concerned that it is not an established fact and I don't think that alternative theories should be ignored.
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I have raised a citation need against the statement
Stephenson's third marriage ceremony took place in "St John's Church in Shrewsbury, Shropshire". I have not heard that he married in the town (near my home) and there has never been a church dedicated to St John in the town, although there was from
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so describing the later transfer of the word to
Tynesiders generally as "theory" wouldn't directly contradict the source. I suggest, once again in the "spirit of compromise", leaving the new introductory sentence as it is but in the second sentence attaching it just to this bit, thus allowing the
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If you could perhaps cite what you say with some evidence it might be something an editor looks into. Unfortunately I don't know anything in particular about what you're intimating, and it might be that nobody else does either. Given it has been 3 months since this topic was flagged for a reason I
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Probably the best counter-example though is at the
Newcastle Lit & Phil, where Davy first demonstrated his safety lamp, and where their records describe the lamp as being demonstrated "to an audience of Geordies" (probably meaning pitmen, more than locals). As Stephenson's and Davy's lamps are
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London? He had difficulties just in
Newcastle. Look at some of the descriptions of his presentations to the Lit & Phil. Stephenson was looked down on by many urban Newcastle sophisticates. He was from a village outside the city, he was poorly born, he worked with his hands, and he had the
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My attitude to this is that despite what the OED mights say (and I don't think the OED is infallible) there is more than one theory regarding the origin of the word "Geordie" and that there is no concrete evidence to support either. The two main theories seem to be the one regarding George
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However I don't agree with the version to which the article has been reverted. You can't say 'in which he invented' about the glass tubes. That implies that he was inside the tubes when he made his invention. I have therefore changed the sentence to avoid the use of 'in.
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Knowledge seems to have nothing on who invented the flanged wheel, which was essential to high speed rail transport and highly non-obvious, as tramways had operated for millennia with ordinary wheels, and late 18th/early 19th railroads often used flanged rails. This
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This is a tad odd, but elements of
Stephenson's biography (death of Fanny Henderson, father blinded) are recited in the Firesign Theater sketch "Coal!" I don't know whether that's an appropriate detail to add or not, so I thought I'd just toss it out
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the later 19th century until it closed in 2005 the "St John's Hill
Methodist Church", which it took its name from the street it was in (Methodists didn't do church dedications). I suspect the church's name or the town's name might be an error.
1380:"MARRIAGES. On Tuesday the 11th inst. at St. Chad's, Shrewsbury, by the Vicar, the Rev. J. Yardley, M.A. George Stephenson, Esq, Tapton House, Chesterfield, to Ellen, daughter of the late Richard Gregory. Esq. of Meadow Place, near Bakewell."
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In a book I have just read "Beating the Record" by G. Stebbing written about 1905 it indicates he was only married once to Fanny who died after giving birth to a little girl who also died and it does not indicate he ever married again.
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I've heard it claimed that
Stephenson's accent/dialect was so thick that he had to take an interpreter with him in order to be understood in London. Anyone know of any evidence for this or is it just a myth? Cassandra
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their name from a safety lamp anyway, merely that it's their term for it. The OED also gives earlier examples of the name being applied to
Newcastle people, pitmen and also colliers (ships) from Newcastle.
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he sounded like "one of them". Amongst the affluent merchant class of
Newcastle he'd be understood, but he was regularly snubbed socially, even after he'd become rich enough to buy them all for cash.
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Robert Stephenson had tried a locomotive on the freight line between Kilmarnock and Troon, in 1815, nine years prior to the Darlington Stockton railway line, however it had proved unsuccessful
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accent of a coal miner. Oh, and he revolutionised three whole industries, near single-handed. He was lauded by miners (and why his lamp was accepted so readily)
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sources. Therefore it should only be mentioned here, at all, in the most cautious of terms: we might mention the existence of the theory (and definitely link to
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in Newcastle upon Tyne. He was born into a great family of civil engineers, his father was engineer of Pendleton Colliery and Nantlle Railway, his elder brother
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Also George Stephenson didn't invent 4'8½" gauge. His gauge was 4'8", it was Robert who widened it by half an inch for the Liverpool & Manchester.
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Has anyone got a brief family tree of the Railway Stephensons? I am having trouble telling all the Georges, Roberts and Robert Georges apart!
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The cited blog is vague more than inaccurate. Stephenson does seem to have been the first to use flanged wheels or a steam locomotive (on his
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If anything, the likelihood is that "Geordie" was in widespread use in reference to pitmen before any of the lamps, and it spread from them
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I believe Stephenson was also accused of being involved in some shady business deals in his time, surely the article should mention this.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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As your initial sentence would not be changed your doubts about this etymology will remain in place. I have now linked to
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I have found out that it was actually St Chad's Church in Shrewsbury, not St Johns. I have found two references for this:
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close contemperaries, it's unlikely that Stephenson's lamp could have been influential in any change of name by then.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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The OED second edition (1989) from which I cited seems the same as the 1933: it is only definitive about the
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have yet to see evidence on, I am removing the "neutral" flag unless someone can come up with something.--
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The first comes from the Leicester Journal of 21st of August 1848, p. 2. Via British Newspaper Archive. -
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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George Stephenson High School, situated in killingworth, North Tyneside is also named after him.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
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This derivation is now labelled a "theory" in the article. My initial response was that the
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position (clue!). Should be reverted, once again, to the correct version from 15 March. --
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https://web.archive.org/web/20060803123846/http://www.cottontimes.co.uk/stephensono.htm
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possibly also what GS's loco improvements were, and his difficulty with L&M survey
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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via familysearch also gives the place of his third marriage as St Chad, Shrewsbury. -
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says George Stephenson invented flanged wheels, but its source link is broken.
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doesn't do "theory", only fact. However, the work is quite specific about the
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a) the inventor of the 'Geordie lamp' (and dispute over priority with the
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This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
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George Stephenson, "England Marriages, 1538–1973" (familysearch.org)
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so interested readers may get the full story, as you explain above.
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The OED (my 1933 anyway) don't claim that the Geordie people
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Mid-importance biography (science and academia) articles
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Venue of third marriage ceremony (section Personal life)
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Looks a bit lumpy, but as a compromise works well.--
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665:Apropos of nothing, I assume it would be methane.
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675:Yep. I'm using the terminology of the time.--
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832:
828:
827:94.172.18.179
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803:
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1370:Hello there,
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1336:Andy Dingley
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1235:source check
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1158:Andy Dingley
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1072:70.54.130.47
1066:— Preceding
1061:
1040:Andy Dingley
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956:Andy Dingley
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721:The page on
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692:PatGallacher
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264:. See also:
258:project page
247:
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110:
51:WikiProjects
34:
1398:Thank you.
851:preposition
821:—Preceding
782:—Preceding
751:—Preceding
741:and cousin
197:in Scotland
1417:Categories
1357:Cloptonson
1326:0710078188
1272:Report bug
841:Word order
647:Rjccumbria
262:discussion
1255:this tool
1248:this tool
847:cucumbers
640:Davy lamp
130:Biography
70:Biography
39:is rated
1400:Reddog78
1261:Cheers.—
1112:If it's
1080:contribs
1068:unsigned
933:Dposte46
874:Dposte46
823:unsigned
796:contribs
788:Dposte46
784:unsigned
753:unsigned
703:Koncorde
268:and the
1312:Blucher
1308:My Lord
1185:my edit
1154:because
1118:Chuntuk
1029:geordie
982:Geordie
619:before.
568:on the
479:on the
302:on the
41:C-class
1289:source
1093:there.
948:derive
667:Chevin
653:Legacy
275:Trains
188:Trains
47:scale.
541:Mills
532:mills
504:Mills
193:in UK
28:This
1404:talk
1361:talk
1340:talk
1322:ISBN
1297:talk
1293:Enon
1162:talk
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1122:talk
1099:talk
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1044:talk
1025:WP:V
1021:from
1003:talk
997:. --
995:lamp
974:WP:V
960:talk
937:talk
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913:lamp
893:talk
878:talk
863:talk
831:talk
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761:talk
707:talk
600:Tip:
471:High
294:High
119:and
1229:RfC
1199:to
909:OED
855:pre
560:Low
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