Talk:Hip hop (culture)/Archive 1

152:. The article has failed at this time for several reasons. There are several "citation needed" tags, which are not allowed for GAs, as each statement needs an inline citation. My main reason for failing this article is that Hip Hop is a very large topic and the article needs to go into more detail. At this point there are are only a few sections of information, but the article could use a lot more expansion. Consider getting a peer review to help come up with ideas of what to add and how to improve the article. Once you have done these things, and looked over the criteria, consider renominating again. If you disagree with this review, then you can can seek an alternate review at 1198:

the "culture versus music" debate, sorry). Also, I'm a bit old school in my musical taste, and if you listen to old Sugar Hill Records music, you'll often hear mention of "who's on the Radio." This, I think, is a reference to power through music (Hey, looks who's on the radio - Remember Power 99 in the 1980s? - why was it called "Power"?). Usually, power through money from music. Let's be fair and also mention power through money from drugs. There's enough lyrical boasting on all of these topics to provide citations, I think.

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just music", and many believe that this concept is the heart of hip hop. The commercialization of hip hop has concentrated on the music, which has given it much attention in the media, but this doesn't mean that other elements are practiced any less just because they're not seen in the news. For example, I believe that breaking and hip hop dances in general are more active and evolving than ever, only becoming more and more international with many competitions and events spread around the world today.

3822: 31: 325:-- but no one updated any of the links to this page. 1000 links is far too many to disambiguate by hand (and new ones are constantly being added) so I suggest this page either be changed back into the redirect, or expanded into an article with sections that briefly cover each area and "Main article" links (which is actually what 2964:"Hip Hop is a way of life and to most it can be credited to be the single most important thing in there life. Hip Hop is growing fast with a social network that expands all over the world, as shown in this class. "Paradoxically, or maybe not, hip-hop is at once the fastest spreading and most local pop music in the world." 3347:

In the same way that other articles, when they become too large, have a parent article and daughter articles, this can have a parent article for basic information and daughter articles for more in-depth information. Disambiguation pages are useful when dealing with unrelated topics, but these hip hop

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I saw your comments above, and all are valid. I would support merging the three into one article, "Hip Hop," with "culture" and "music" shortened into sub-sections added to "history" and "legacy," as long as the effort is made to cite. I think that would go a long way towards FA status, based on the

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article - incidentally, the main history article also needs a clean up - so I suggest removing the chronological separations and focusing on the initial growth of hip-hop, with summaries of the four elements, followed by a short section on hip-hop's development until the present. None of the sections

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That may be true, except there is no group of people who are called 'hip-hops'. The point is, this article mostly talks about music, a bit of about the 4 cultural elements, but these are all on the hip-hop music article, which i agree should be called simply 'hip hop'. I still think a merge would

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Unfortunately, these days the concept of hip hop culture takes a backseat to the actual hip-hop music. Nobody grafs anymore, people don't competition break, and the DJ culture is completely removed from the essence of hip-hop. Hip-hop's primary driving force is its music. The culture is the archaic,

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Please Do Editorialize the Knowledge entry on Hip Hop with personal political or other opinions. This entry is supposed to be for basic historical facts not opinion. It is only appropriate to state facts on politics if those facts are part of the political opinion of established Hip Hop artiists who

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I'm confused by the reinstitution of the redirect given the recent discussion here. In the same way that other articles, when they become too large, have a parent article and daughter articles, this can have a parent article for basic information and daughter articles for more in-depth information.

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as proposed by user bikeable above? Or should we find another way to reach consensus, maybe list all arguments for and against the different alternatives, and then continue a normal discussion from there? Or should we start a new voting, or even two (one for each question at hand), that defines the

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I'm sorry to see this article didn't make it into GA status. I think it's pretty good so far. However, it's missing something significant, several articles in this series are. Beef is not mentioned, but it's a significant part of hip hop music culture (yeah, I know, I just added another layer to

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Just because you say its one thing doesn't mean it isn't also another. The word hip-hop is both the name of the culture and a genre of music, and when you are referring to it as a music genre then it is synonymous with rap, except for the few occasions when a song is considered hip-hop but does not

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moved from this namespace to its current one, so that this would be a disambiguation page. Editors and readers ambiguously use "hip-hop" to define both the culture and the music, and the purpose of a disambiguation page is to (a) allow for users to find the correct page they are looking for and (b)

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I don't agree that the other aspects of hip hop culture are disappearing. It's true that hip hop's primary driving force has always been music, so it's definitely a central element of hip hop. However, from the beginning until now its practicioners have always been saying that "hip hop is more than

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The word "hip" was originally a black slang term dating back as far as 1904. It is a varient on "hep", meaning the same thing "informed". Other examples may be found in the future but the first known combination of the term Hip and Hop together to form the term "Hip Hop" is found in the lyrics to a

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page should be a gateway to culture, music, fashion etc. The question is whether it should be an article or disambiguation page. A disambiguation page is better because if it's an article, you have to unnecessarily summarise information that exists elsewhere. As for the China example, that's not a

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What aspects of hip hop aren't cultural? I would move all the hip hop culture stuff to here and leave a redirect from that page. This page I would structure in summary style of all the different aspects of hip hop culture (or simply hip hop, however you want to phrase it)--dance, music, etc. My

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Done. I made many changes today; the whole article was in a pretty bad condition, with a great number of grammar and spelling mistakes and inconsistencies, far too much subjective, uncited rhetoric and speculation, and quite a few structural problems (e.g. paragraphs jumping around, making little

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Its "practitioners?" As in the delirious and aging KRS-ONE? Who else? Young Jeezy, who excuses his lack of ability to rap as a movement? Don't get it twisted, rap has always been about music. Breaking and hip-hop dances are GONE. The most you see is some video on MTV. They're not an integral part

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Another problem with the old version of Hip Hop history that users keep reverting to is that that version claims Keith Cowboy coined the term. But Afrika Bambaataa and the Universal Zulu nation clearly states the term is first used to describe rap music and culture by Lovebug Starski not Keith

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Hip hop/Hip hop culture article is the natural parent article to the music, fashion, dance, etc articles. The only confusion is that "hip hop" is also now a synonym for the music. We already deal with this by having an article dealing with the music, and directing readers to it via hatnote. I'm

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I think it's impossible to avoid speaking about this tv show in a hip hop history article, because it's the first entirely hip hop tv show in the world (so before american hip hop tv shows). The announcer, Sidney, (and also the tv show conceptor) did not speak but do rap to present all the show

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As I've said below, I made many changes today (the whole article was in a pretty bad condition, with a great number of grammar and spelling mistakes and inconsistencies, far too much subjective, uncited rhetoric and speculation, and quite a few structural problems). But this topic (Hip hop) is

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Irad this artical and saw the four elements of hip-hop and I thought to my self that's not right. Later it occured t me that graffitti had replaced beat boxing. Beat boxing is one of the four elements and graffitti is not. Graffitti is not an element of hip-hop because graffitti has been around

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as the main article. Hip hop culture would then consist of a summary of the various elements and with more in-depth information and history on how the culture as a whole evolved, without going into too much detail with any specific element, including the music, as these have their own in-depth

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touches on a good point. IMO, if merger is necessary, it would have to be merged into the topic "Hip-Hop." anything else is (clearly) by definition a subset of Hip hop, and would be improper as a header. As it stands, if you do try to merge all of these articles into one big one, I am fairly

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Theres a new movement being started in response to the 'hip hop is dead' theories called the Hip Hop Is Not Dead Movement. When is the 'right time' for it to have its own wiki article and not be considered promotion of a campaign? Is there a certain benchmark of popularity it must reach?

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To B-Boy Or Not To B-Boy This is an article from the German hip-hop mag "MZEE" (July/august '93) by Kenny "Ken Swift" Gabbert and Jorge "Fabel" Pabon of the Rock Steady Crew with assistance from Richie "Crazy Legs" Colon and Steve "Mr. Wiggles". (locate orig of MZEE article copied at:

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The thing is that regardless of what things are called we clearly have two major topics that we need to deal with. One is hip hop music and another is the hip hop subculture. Sometimes people want to read only about the music (there are many today who only listen to hip hop music without

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hip hop (this article) into hip hop music: 1) Editors will naturally come to hip hop and start editing assuming it's soley about music. 2) Hip hop music is a former featured article and has therefore been scrutinised widely 3) Hip hop music is better laid out and more detailed.

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be a gatekeeper to the various related articles on hip hop (culture, music, fashion, dance, etc), with a short, concise discussion of various subjects wikilinking to the more in-depth discussions. This is by no means uncommon, by the way; a great, closely-related example would be

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entirely necessary, and the article most probably receives alot of attention; however many mistakes are made in the editing process, we just have to make sure we keep on top of everything. As for why it's necessary.. I think there's been rather prolonged discussion on this above.

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OK, I edited this to try to clean up and create a more neutral POV for this article. I respect everyone's writing and opinions (notwithstanding the vandals), but this is not an opinion piece. I did try to get the general POV's that were discussed into the article, however.

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allowed editors to realize that linking to just "hip-hop" won't work. No article needs to be moved anyplace ("Hip hop (music)" makes less sense than "hip hop music", especially since Knowledge has "soul music" and "rock music", not "soul (music)" and "rock (music)"). --

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I don't have any real interest in going through and looking at which usage is preferred (there are 1368 books), but I'd just like to see why we use hip hop over hip-hop. I understand that it may simply be a question of standardization, but, in any case, there we are.

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Robotam, I'm not sure that is the case. Some people apparently misunderstood the shorthand vote summaries (in bold), so we cannot judge the votes based on these. When reading the descriptions behind each person's vote, I seem to find two votes on each alternative

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is confusing at best, factually incorrect at worst. As popular as it is, Rap is one segment of music associated with Hip hop culture (true, the one by which it is usually characterized), but it is incorrect to assume or state that rap is the entirety of Hip hop

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The fact that the culture includes the music doesn't mean we shouldn't have two articles. Many, many wikipedia articles have a brief summary of a more detailed topic which is covered in depth on another page. Hip hop culture and hip hop music deserve separate

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No, that's your opinion. Rap was being called hip hop in the 80s and 90s way before R&B type hip hop (Usher, Chris Brown etc) became popular. As to whether R&B type hip hop destroyed actual rap, thats another subject, but it certainly is getting more

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This whole fucking article is wrong, you want to know why, Rap and Hip Hop is not the same thing dammit, people do not know that because their to busy thinkin about this new shit, Rap was destroyed because of Hip Hop which started in early 1990s with the

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Dee Nasty made the first french rap album, in the end of 1984, but nobody heard about it at this moment, it takes for him many years before becoming more famous. Sidney made before him the first french rap single, and immediatly famous by the tv show.

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The term also appears in 1968 in an advertisement for Air India for example the ad appears on the back of a tour book to Ravi Shankar's "Festival of India". The headline in large print reads "The Hip Hop" and is used to describe a flight to India.

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I concur that a merger would a good idea. Taking the two articles and putting them together would also create an impetus for large-scale clean-up (and plenty of information/sources to work from) that could result in a much more polished article.

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The close relation of the hip hop topics (which all deserve in-depth discussion) is the very reason that Hip hop is a parent article rather than a DAB page, and I think we all can agree that hip hop culture requires its own page for discussion.

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have only one page each, even though there are “cultures” based on these two musical styles as well. As I see it, the term hip hop refers first and foremost to music, and "hip hop culture" doesn't really exist independently of hip hop music.

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Hip hop culture. The issue is not whether you believe hip hop is or has a culture, there is more than enough information regarding hip hop culture, apart from or with music, that there should be two articles, rather than one monster article.

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First off I agree this should be a redirect to "hiphop culture. Second hiphop is not a political movement, even if some members have political views etc. So, i replaced "political" by "cultural" and added a link to hiphop culture page.

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by hand. The number of incoming links should not be a consideration. But anyway, I do support a mini article being written here, encapsulating the important terms. This really isn't a dab page, since all the entries are about the same

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Very valid points, Bikeable. I concur with just about all you said; OED does state that Hip contains the "element" of rap. However, even though there is no entry for "Hip hop music" in OED, in the footnotes for "Hip hop," you find:

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Actually graffitti is a part of hip hop. Just because it was around before hip hop doesn't mean anything. Technically, rap was around before hip hop if you consider the old style of country music which was actually talking and

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I still think this is totally stupid-just make ONE page called hip hop, and include everything in the culture and music pages. Fashion, dance, graffiti, etc, still have thier own pages. Why complicate things so information is

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article, even using some of the same language and basic themes. There should be a merge, and it should be pretty easy. I am not an expert, but I believe the primary meaning (being most widely understood, and most specific) of

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here, either. The description of the music doesn't need to be in-depth on this page... it just needs to be discussed briefly with a prominent mention of where the main article is, probably in the same area as "rapping" on the

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How about we close the vote and keep it like this for a while and see how it works? If it feels wrong we can always change it, and those who don't agree, please read the voting discussions above and write your opinion here. -

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anymore, and neither are the supposed nine pillars or so of hip-hop. Hip-hop is about music, hip-hop culture is secondary, that's it. Would rock music take a backseat to political activism and social trends? I don't think so.

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Without intending to badger you, I'm completely failing to see why you think hip hop culture is merely an element of hip hop, such as music, fashion or slang, when it is in fact the thing itself, encompassing all elements.

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Hip Hop has also given the youth culture a voice. Rappers like Subliminal, an Israeli rapper, gives the youth encouragement. "We need something that will encourage us. He sings that there's still hope," she said.

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The following reflects newly discovered referenced facts on the term Hip Hop. This should be updated but people keep vandalising by reverting back to the old incorrect ideas about the therm "Hip Hop" Terminology

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I don't like saying this, but I believe this article doesn't have a chance of becoming a GA as it is now. You should look at other articles and their GA reviews to see what is needed. Don't give up on it though.

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Why are you people wasting time arguing semantics like hip hop vs rap when the easiest thing, best for the site and anyone who wants info about hip hop, is to merge them all together into one easy to navigate

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As great of a song as 'planet rock' is, it is more or less a re-mix of 'trans-europe express' by kraftwerk. I think kraftwerk should be mentioned as their use of electronics, etc greatly influenced hip hop.

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alternatives more clearly and invite many more neutral people from other parts of Knowledge to vote as well? I honestly don't know, but I guess we could always change things later if we change our mind. -

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I'm sure that this was discussed at some point in time, but I don't see it archived anywhere. In any case, when/how was a consensus reached on whether it should be "hip hop" or "hip-hop". The book

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Without even getting into whether or not I agree with it, this paragraph may lean a little to far towards full-blown opinion. Is there any consensus on whether or not it belongs in this article? -

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should be merged and redirected here. This article is forking the same content from hip hop culture (like history and social impact). It's utterly unnecessary to have two pages on the same thing.

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article is currently in disarray because someone copied and pasted large sections of opinion pieces and text from other articles into this one. Cleaning this up would actually be a great help. -

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article is currently in disarray because someone copied and pasted large sections of opinion pieces and text from other articles into this one. Cleaning this up would actually be a great help. -

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This is ridiculous- are "jazz" and "jazz music" different things? More importantly, this article weak because there is no information which pertains to "hip hop" and not "hip hop music" MERGE

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topics are all closely related. There's no way we would choose to have China be a disambiguation page listing articles about China, rather than a parent article for the various China articles.

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article has a great section on the 4 elements of hip hop which says better what is also here. Also, note that the other aspects of hip hop (beatboxing, breaking etc) all have their own pages

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Looking at the 2 GA-related sections below (which I have, along with this, moved to the top in order to address the problem more urgently), created in 2007, let us note that this article is

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just prior to merge being re-suggested. However, the article, as previously decided, serves its purpose as a gateway to music, culture, and other aspects related to hip hop, similar to

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The article currently reads less like an encyclopedia article and more like something you'd pass out in a pamphlet at a breaking competition. There's a good bit of biased/POV writing,

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hip hop music, then it is very confusing to have separate pages, especially when they could all easily fit on the same page. I hope everyone reading this exchange sees that too.

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good work; consider creating an account and/or signing your comments (you can sign your name on any page by typing 4 tildes, likes this: ~~~~) so we'll know it is you! thanx,-

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certain that the resulting huge article will result in demands to be broken up into smaller articles, and we will be back to where we are now. I note that while the current

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http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:nmWYaxJvswsJ:www.zulunation.com/hip_hop_history_2.htm+%22keith+cowboy%22+%22hip+hop%22+military&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3

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participating in any other hip hop element), and sometimes people only want to read and link to the subculture as a whole, without having to dig too deeply into the music.

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I don't see a consensus above, but there can be both, as is also noted above. Redirecting this to the disambiguation page gets the dab page moved to the plain title (see

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in need of a major clean up. The suggested changes would benefit the article, and I would like to expand. The history section does not represent what is said in the main

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Thanks, not received as badgering at all. The question doesn't reflect my opinion at all, and is a misunderstanding (IMO) of the reason consensus was reached regarding

3283:. While cutting and pasting large swaths of the article may have been "clearly," and "utterly" unnecessary, the consensus and rationale for the article tree was not. - 222:

Cowboy. This Zulu nation reference also does not say that he "coined" the term just that he started calling it that. Here is the evidence from the Zulu nation website:

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There seems to be some ongoing confusion about the definition of "hip hop" that has caused not only this ongoing debate about page merger/separation, but has led to

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Yes, you're right, it's more about merging than deleting, and I might have misunderstood you on the other part. I merely wanted to point out that disambiguation of

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and so on). In my opinion, that's the most elegant solution when the topic is surrounded by a strong subculture, as it avoids confusion and stepping on any toes. -

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say "hip hop music, of which rap is one form). I think the rap--hip hop split is one we will have to address, since those two artices are extremely repetitive.

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OK, I did some cleanup and added some secondary refs, although i cannot do footnotes right now. We do need to wikify this article in earnest, footnotes and all.-

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It's pretty obvious that the picture of the "aerial freeze" on the streets of Paris is photoshopped. Someone ought to replace it, because it looks pretty stupid.

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have made songs or public statements of political or social ideas and they are a part of the history. A separate entry might be called "The Politics of Hip Hop".

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a music genre and a subculture phenomenon is too broad to be covered by a single article and would soon need to be divided into sub articles anyway, and to keep

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Hip-hop by definition is the culture, which includes turntablism and MCing, the two elements that compose rap music. These articles should clearly be merged.--

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issues. The article was actually demoted from featured article status, and doesn't at all resemble the article that was originally featured on the main page.-

2568:. Another option is that we simply make this page the main hip hop page containing a summary of all hip hop elements and describing the culture, and redirect 2609:

Disambiguation pages are useful when dealing with unrelated topics, but these hip hop topics are all closely related. There's no way we would choose to have

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You Guys dont really know what hip hop is, Hip hop was when Rap & R&B started coliding which destroyed Rap and R&B, Hip Hop is not a real Genre

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Even though valid arguments have been made for keeping the various articles separate, any MERGER would more appropriately be placed under the umbrella of

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I like how the disambiguation page is now, but I'd still like to merge Hip hop Culture, Hip hop Music and Hip hop because they encompass the same things.

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I still think we should call hip hop music hip hop (music), as thats what people call it. You have a point about culture, but what about that move?--

432:- if we were going to redirect that would be the place. 1000 links can be done by hand (well I am doing it robot assisted now). We did 5000 links to 3067:

In added, by the fact with the tv show, Sidney is the first french famous rap singer, not Dee Nasty, as said on some of english wikipedia articles.

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1) respectfully. the term Hip Hop was not coined in the 1970s and had been used to describe dancing before rap related culture was in existence.

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What a very hip-hop symbol ! It was one of the first time in the world, maybe the first, that hip-hop made the proof it could change society...

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I think you may be misunderstanding me since you restated what i said (there does seem to be a majority of votes (four against two) for keeping

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in this article need be long, but the article itself should represent (i.e. relay in far less detail) each main hip-hop related topic. Let us

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song called "You Can't Sit Down by the pop group" The Dovells . The song charted on Billboard in 1963. One of the lyrics to the song was

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page! Breakdancing, graffiti, hip hop Dance and hip hop fashion all have their own pages, and that's most of non-musical hip hop culture

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directly. This is to avoid controversies and confusion, such as people adding in-depth cultural facts to the hip hop music article. See

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I've never heard of beatboxing being referred to as a fifth element of hip-hop; as such, I've only seen it classified as part of MCing.

2920:. Truth be told, do we even need this to be an article? Wouldn't it be more effective as a disambiguation page as it originally was? -- 2539:

Good point. I believe that was the original setup anyway, but for some reason that setup was offensive to some editors. Anyone else?-

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for merging with this article because, logically, they should all be contained in this article, which I think should simply be called

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before hip-hop was created. and graffittican be for many different things not jut tagging i.e political, other music genres, etc...

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of Hip hop culture. If I was looking for info on graffiti artists or hip hop fashions I would not have thought to look under music.

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I think this page should redirect to hip hop music, but I agree with Commander Keane that this page should have/be a mini article

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It does not matter whether an editor has contributed or not, any Wikipedian can vote and express their opinion on the following:

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There are "hip-hoppers" and "B-Boys." I'm not opposed to merging (under the circumstances I discussed above some time ago), but

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Thanks for your very constructive comments. I'm pretty much away right now, but I hope to use your suggestions when I get back.-

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There have been no votes or comments for a while; are there any remaining objections to redirecting this page to disambiguation

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Various critiques of the article have been addressed, to the point where, IMO, this is clearly not a "stub" or "start" article.

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I've always known the fifth element to be knowledge, as in knowledge of the history of the culture and all its other elements.--

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People call hip hop music "hip hop". It should be moved to hip hop (music), and hip hop culture should just be "hip hop".--

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OK, right now this page has about 1000 links coming into it (not counting User and Talk pages). A few months ago (Jan-2006)

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I think this page should include at least a mention of beatboxing, the so-called "fifth element" of hip hop. Your thoughts?

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and some examples. The OED and the American Heritage dictionary both say that hip hop culture includes rap music (they do

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alternative which has no votes. Please double check. If separating the two major questions this voting deals with (1: if

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2) Usage is not the same thing as "coining" a term. The term was coined at least as far back as 1963 as is proved above.

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loathe to make any improvements to either this or the culture article at present, because they are forks of each other.

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loathe to make any improvements to either this or the culture article at present, because they are forks of each other.

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I can cite sources, but I don't want to direct too much attention away from the present questions. Again, good points.--

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PLEASE make a disambiguation page. There are so many aspects of hip hop it is getting hard to navigate through them all.

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None of this is true, by the way. Breakdancing as an active practice and competitive activity is alive and very well. --

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Keith Cowboy does get credit for being the person who first started using it in stage performances and making it stick.

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get this in order, if not as per already suggested then in some other way, because at the moment it's quite a disgrace.

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by cleaning it up and editing it in a more serious, scholarly manner. It still needs lots of work, but it is a start.-

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article? I can't think of any. Propose merging Hip hop culture into Hip hop, pending good arguments why we shouldn't.

1764:. When the term "hip hop music" is used, it refers to THE MUSIC ASSOCIATED WITH THE CULTURE, which includes rap music. 3723: 3497: 3318: 2741: 2653: 1054: 993: 277: 3482: 2613:

be a disambiguation page listing articles about China, rather than a parent article for the various China articles.

2564:

Works for me, as long as the article has a clear purpose, as my only worry is that it will grow into a duplicate of

1487:

because of password problems. I will not be voting in this name but would like to add some comments below. Thanks.

138: 3870: 3862: 3857: 3056:"In 1984 was created in France the first hip hop tv show in the world (so before american hip hop tv shows), named 2715: 1067: 1042: 1010: 79: 71: 66: 3190:...or Hip hop into Hip hop culture, may even be better. Main point is that I can't see a reason for two articles. 2632: 3074:

It's important to say that all officials french medias say exactly the same thing, without any contradictions.

1954:

that goes into more depth. It's not unnecessarily complicated to have a more detailed article on a subtopic.

1631:

as a third article with a summary of the two other articles would only lead to duplication. This is why I vote

1085:. There are even specific ways of talking and a body language that's become associated with hip hop. There are 371:

redirecting to it) will explain the full cultural phenomenon and summaries of its many elements, like you say.

3564: 2959: 949: 916: 645:

On a side note: you need a source on the "global media conglomerates" statement.(who are those guys anyway?)

569:. Currently, I'm 50/50 for performing the move or keeping it the way it is. However, I'm against redirecting 205: 153: 2269:. It's apparent that the choice is between those two alternatives, but which one should we choose? Redirect 3335:

being used as a parent article. In fact, during the original discussion in 2007, I sided with redirecting

1713:

My point in all of this is that our goal should be simplicity and common sense. If some of the aspects of

858: 636: 309: 1648: 3741: 3527:

article is currently formulated to be about "hip-hop culture", and seems to cover the same ground as the

1752:, a former Featured Article, being knocked back down to B-class. I have two observations that may help: 3829: 3513: 2903: 756: 38: 3378:

On second thought, after reading past discussions on this, I believe the best thing to do is redirect

323: 156:. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. -- 797: 501: 2290:

Good point. As long as the previously discussed is met, it is perfectly appropriate to redirecting

3548:, along with subsequent musical forms derived from this movement. If this can be agreed upon, then 3383: 2878: 2367: 2295: 2274: 2133: 1834: 1644: 1274: 1230: 1125: 975: 356: 344: 148:

Not sure if the above comment is a review or not, so I have reviewed this article according to the

2970: 3205: 3162: 2965: 2925: 1483:

17:08, 13 July 2007 (UTC) Please note that since starting this vote, my username has changed to:

1403: 785: 707: 259:

It would be good to mention it, as part of hip hop music (and maybe not as the "fifth element".)

3838: 3787: 3654: 3437: 3249: 3195: 3180: 2912:, and a lack of a cohesive tone. This page should essentially serve as a brief introduction to 1215: 47: 17: 1687:

Yes, that's true. What I would like to do is to remove the text on the cultural elements from

87: 3727: 3671:

serves as a parent article rather than a disambiguation page. The consensus goal was to have

3501: 3449:

serves as a parent article rather than a disambiguation page. The consensus goal was to have

2737: 2681: 2649: 2067: 2039: 299: 250: 3064:, who became by the fact the first black announcer in french tv history, a hip hop symbol." 3805: 3764: 3756:

http://books.google.com/books?client=firefox-a&um=1&q=hip+hop&btnG=Search+Books

3424: 3233: 3216: 3141: 3001: 2945: 2870: 2729: 2641: 971: 828:. All there is hip hop culture and the music that came from that culture. Having a third 438: 119: 3275:

the "same content" is forked because an editor copied and pasted that "same content" from

8: 3400: 3266: 2783: 1361: 732: 233: 2261:

doesn't seem to be the result of the voting, as there are as many votes for redirecting

935:

Hip hop is a cultural movement that includes music, dance, visual art, and other stuff.

2921: 2617: 2596: 2529: 2348: 1958: 1882: 1858: 1137: 738: 625: 601: 558: 106: 3750:

goes without the hyphen, but most books I've found about hip-hop use the hyphen (e.g.

3641:

at the top of our hip hop/hip hop culture article. Why then two separate articles for

3099: 3779: 3702: 3607: 3561: 3480: 3371: 3301: 3153: 2827: 2557: 2501: 2400: 2375: 2371: 1336: 1315: 943: 926: 811: 789: 770: 737:

The links to various video websites present various copyright and WP issues, such as

143: 3575: 1073:

Yes, I don't think there's any controversy over whether there actually is a hip hop

3137: 3121: 2859: 2712: 1951: 1572: 1480: 1435:, and various other Hip hop-related articles should be merged into one article. -- 1259:

or another specific aspect of hip hop and not a summary of the culture as a whole.

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page doesn't make sense. Let's redirect to a disambiguation that explains this.--

3801: 3760: 3646: 3630: 3586: 3528: 3420: 3276: 3258: 3229: 3212: 3168: 2997: 2941: 2913: 2675: 2589: 2584: 2569: 2565: 2522: 2466: 2432: 2379: 2245: 2217: 2183: 2171: 2141: 2121: 2100: 2071: 2022: 1925: 1900:

for rapping; a collective term used to describe rap/graffiti/breaking/scratchin'.

1854: 1843: 1838: 1821: 1799: 1714: 1700: 1692: 1671: 1620: 1600: 1540: 1523: 1432: 1267: 1248: 1168: 1149: 1145: 1133: 1082: 1031: 979: 821: 717: 620: 562: 554: 364: 352: 326: 319: 149: 115: 3837:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

1901: 1861:. these can be linked appropriately from within the music and culture articles. 46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

3396: 3262: 3125: 3113: 3104:

and Sidney on a french hip-hop history resume, from "Festival l'Original 84-04"

3090: 2775: 2694: 2447: 2322: 2104: 2002: 1993: 1938: 1721: 1679: 1604: 1548: 1502: 1488: 1484: 1327: 1051: 1016: 990: 925:? Maybe I'm just a white metal head but i don't really see the difference....? 906:

DJ'n :Turntablist, music using 2 phonograph turntables, mixing & scratching

3552:

should be a music article, perhaps a redirect to or from the existing article

816:

It seems reaonable to say we're just confusing ourselves and others by having

199: 3638: 3620: 3616: 3582: 3553: 3340: 3057: 3030: 3017: 2917: 2768: 2758: 2756:, that is, the group is covered by several independent and reliable sources. 2691: 2614: 2593: 2526: 2518: 2514: 2510: 2462: 2428: 2420: 2318: 2278: 2266: 2241: 2237: 2229: 2221: 2203: 2195: 2187: 2175: 2149: 2137: 2129: 2026: 1979: 1955: 1879: 1850: 1830: 1825: 1817: 1795: 1749: 1688: 1675: 1652: 1616: 1596: 1584: 1519: 1515: 1428: 1395: 1375: 1341: 1256: 1252: 1186: 1172: 1164: 1153: 1148:

if they refer to the whole subculture. Let the four elements be explained in

1141: 1129: 1081:

events around the world, there are markets, brands and stores that only sell

1078: 1050:

forward the study of hip-hop here. Other people have said the same above, too

1003: 965: 922: 833: 825: 713: 661: 574: 550: 529: 507: 459: 429: 412: 408: 383: 2182:), there does seem to be a majority of votes (four against two) for keeping 3775: 3557: 2909: 2855: 2573: 2470: 2436: 2410: 2397: 2387: 2299: 2282: 2249: 2208: 2153: 2087: 2052: 1911: 1871: 1777: 1739: 1705: 1660: 1531: 1436: 1353: 1282: 1234: 1176: 1064: 1060: 1039: 1035: 1007: 936: 847: 803: 762: 748: 744: 724: 699: 678: 664: 582: 372: 166: 3395:

good comparison because hip hop has nowhere near as much topics as China.

2236:, it is not a matter of deletion; that would appropriately be merged into 2136:

page. Therefore, a majority of the salvageable text that is currently at

206:

http://www.justsomelyrics.com/657665/The-Dovells-You-Can't-Sit-Down-Lyrics

3800:

Thanks for the info. I see TUF-KAT's statement at the bottom of that WP.

3537: 3145: 3117: 3047:

In added, Sidney was the first black announcer in the french tv history.

2779: 2753: 2525:. I think that is far better than having a plain dab page at this title. 2083: 2075: 2034: 2030: 1371: 784:

Yeah, I noticed. I reverted back to the page before the user with the IP

517:

historical counterpart to the music that is arguably no longer relevant.

2996:

sense). I'm going to be keeping close watch on this page from now on...

1870:

Finally, the "hip hop is not rap" argument is sort of useless without a

1802:. I think that's almost the right thing; however, because most hits to 3541: 3280: 3129: 2811: 2125: 2117: 1383: 1074: 673:

Legacy of Hip Hop/"Paradox that hip-hop artists fail to face" paragraph

484: 458:

Good points. The thing is, hip hop music is part of hip hop culture.--

128: 2240:, because that is what it pertains to, just as the present content of 962:

its also a genre of music which is by far the most popular definition

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page is a good example of how to handle this. We both agree that the

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will then become a disambig page with a short description and links.-

1027: 761:

Not sure why anyone would want to dispute this, but we are all ears.-

260: 3021:

french tv show, the very first entirely hip-hop tv show in the world

1391: 433: 3748:

Droppin' Science: Critical Essays on Rap Music and Hip Hop Culture

2370:, and I think this was the right thing to do because we need more 242: 3681: 3672: 3668: 3642: 3633:? We can (and currently do) direct people to a treatment dealing 3624: 3578: 3549: 3545: 3524: 3459: 3450: 3446: 3391: 3379: 3336: 3332: 3172: 2847: 2823: 2815: 2807: 2424: 2416: 2363: 2314: 2291: 2270: 2262: 2258: 2233: 2225: 2199: 2191: 2179: 2145: 2096: 2018: 2001:

I agree that this is intended be a vote for a merge. Pls clarify

1813: 1803: 1791: 1640: 1628: 1592: 1527: 1511: 1498: 1160: 1121: 999: 983: 843: 829: 817: 570: 566: 368: 348: 340: 315: 3577:

for answers to your inquiries, specifically, in regards to why

3167:

Hi. Can I hear some arguments as to why there should be both a

3061: 2971:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-11-06-hiphop-usat_x.htm

2839: 2819: 2795: 2152:, and the disambig page will be expanded. Questions/Comments?- 921:

Why is there an article for Hip Hop (this article) and one for

2966:

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0219,christgau,34334,22.html

2583:

I don't think it would be a bad thing to move the backbone of

2095:

Is this consensus? I think what we've agreed is to delete the

1419:

Is this a joke? Somebody replaced the page wit some craziness

3028:

I've tried to add some informations about the french tv show

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I honestly don't see a problem here. Half of the article on

1464:

hip hop into hip hop music and keep hip hop culture separate.

1387: 1156:

focus at the music genre. That's a very clear solution to me.

3754:). A GoogleBooks search for hip hop came up with this list: 2690:

I'm not sure there was one on this article, but there is on

1659:

for a real working example of the solution I'm proposing. -

3387: 2843: 1695:. Hip hop music could instead have a single section called 1656: 1349: 1345: 1023: 3752:

Can't Stop Won't Stop: A History of the Hip-Hop Generation

2461:

for short), I see it very practical to have two articles,

1950:

is about history, but we still have a separate article on

1928:

article is going to be a bad article, because half of the

716:, but that is in reality a translation-in-progress of the 3778:

achieved wiki-wide standardization on this by writing up

3053:

Anyway, i was not going so far, here is what i've sent :

2791: 2787: 2228:

either redirects to a disambiguation page or directly to

2194:

either redirects to a disambiguation page or directly to

2029:. I looked for a few examples for guidance and saw that 1833:

covers the music, and has a disambig at top pointing to

1344:

article is long, it is all over the place, with serious

1026:. They made it a disambiguation page that links to both 654:

Hip-Hop and Worship: Effects on the Future of the Church

561:

as well?) but I'm not sure about the proposal of moving

3086:

and Sidney on Universal Music France official web site

3041:(possible to see on share video web site Dailymotion). 1772: 195:"you gotta, slop bop, flip flop, hip hop, all around" 3037:

So,it's up to you to draw your own conclusions here :

1207: 1171:

as a separate article and provide distinct links from

1806:

are likely looking for music, I would do it this way:

865:

Rap is something we do. Hip hop is something we live!

3623:. That being so, why do we need an article both for 2047:

According to your description, I think your vote is

1790:. The way I read Wintran's suggestion is to have a 1445:

Statements by editors previously involved in dispute

1846:

covers other cultural aspects (and, briefly, music)

871:

Rap is not hip hop and cannot be uses as a synonym.

3619:has no bearing on my post. We have an article for 3025:First, please excuse my bad english, i'm french ! 1932:of hip hop include music (rapping, production). 1760:Hip hop is a culture, or subculture if you like. 1894:1984 S. HAGER Hip Hop 109/2 Hip hop:funky music 1674:page? everything on it right now is also on the 1526:, once it is edited for NPOV and verifiability. 1251:, and is hard to navigate if you're looking for 873:Hip Hop is not a musical genre, it is a culture. 687:I agree, this paragraph is definitely not NPOV. 648:-non-member of wikiland.august 30 2006, 11:25pm 428:By far, the most common meaning of "Hip hop" is 1615:. I believe in two articles with real content: 1423:Request for Comment: Merger of Hip Hop Articles 3574:Please see discussion above, in particular at 2810:those are people who are Hip Hop, people like 2778:, and therefore it continued with people like 3523:as referring to a musical form; however, the 3044:How not to mention this world history fact ? 1247:The current article has the same function as 1117:, all associated with the hip hop subculture. 3077:Here are links, to help to think about it : 2457:Though both topics often use the same name ( 3244:Support as maker of the initial proposal. 2166:included separately), except the original 1497:So basically whats going to happen is the 1378:, which is wrong. Black Music starts from 1144:if they're referring to the music, and to 1034:, as well as other punk related articles ( 200:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNZPUxKPsoM 2680:What happened to the infobox at the top? 2313:I think all you need to do is delete the 2178:should be merged, and 2: what to do with 2431:article still need to be transferred to 1518:. The majority of the current text for 3095:and Sidney on MCM TV official web site 2858:are not hip hop there are Rap, get it. 1773:"Hip hop music also known as rap music 1699:or something like that, which links to 1266:Merge the content of this article with 1030:as a music genre and an article on the 359:will thus become a simple list of what 322:, got turned into a disambiguation page 14: 3835:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3339:to a disambiguation page; however, as 1539:so the bigger article is going to be 1193:Power is not mentioned in the articles 382:There are also many links refering to 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3680:, which is a FA-status article. The 3458:, which is a FA-status article. The 2343:Please don't merge. Hip hop music is 1738:, for all reasons explained above by 1514:will likely be moved to the page for 775:The Hip Hop page has been vandalized. 3816: 3782:and proposing it. Kudos to him/her. 3536:is hip-hop music, which to me means 896:The 4 elements of Hip Hop (Original) 842:interest that has been generated in 25: 3615:Yes, I'm aware of that discussion. 3112:N.B. : the show had guests such as 2112:As it stands now, consensus is for 557:(maybe this should be discussed at 23: 2099:article and work on improving the 1989:Then what I think your choice is ' 1185:I'm going to merge it because the 1002:, as opposed to one facet of it, 24: 3884: 2481:as was reached by consensus above 1370:on my page, but I found that the 619:I was the one to originally have 3820: 2116:. That should mean (1)merger of 1427:This is a dispute about whether 1311:Other aspects of hip hop culture 1308:Hip hop art (incl. graffiti art) 747:for a full discussion. thanks! - 577:for the reasons explained above. 339:I agree with you. I say we move 29: 2374:. The old content can be found 2244:is more appropriately place in 1794:article which is a disambig to 875:Hip Hop is not a style of dance 97:Still in dire need of attention 2656:) 17:58, August 25, 2007 (UTC) 2423:. The relevant material from 2396:Merge first, then redirect. -- 2128:music/music history text into 1849:Note that there already exist 1824:, and then should redirect to 703:16:44, 26 September 2006 (UTC) 692:23:49, 20 September 2006 (UTC) 682:18:47, 19 September 2006 (UTC) 13: 1: 3581:is a parent article for both 3343:correctly (IMO) pointed out, 2883:16:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC) 2763:19:29, 19 February 2008 (UTC) 2716:15:12, 14 November 2007 (UTC) 2378:and it should be merged with 2358:Hip hop is now disambiguation 1120:I'm still in favor of making 851:18:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC) 837:17:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC) 793:01:42, 12 December 2006 (UTC) 780:01:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC) 154:Knowledge:Good article review 2863:12:13, 12 January 2008 (UTC) 2746:15:32, 6 December 2007 (UTC) 2721:Hip Hop Is Not Dead Movement 2698:13:51, 5 November 2007 (UTC) 2685:13:37, 5 November 2007 (UTC) 2232:). As far as the CONTENT of 2074:, which links directly from 1470:all three articles are kept. 807:15:50, 22 January 2007 (UTC) 766:14:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC) 752:14:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC) 728:16:21, 26 October 2006 (UTC) 585:19:13,604211 May 2006 (UTC) 304:15:38, 6 December 2007 (UTC) 264:03:19, 21 October 2006 (UTC) 238:19:27, 15 January 2008 (UTC) 179:FACTS ON HIP HOP TERMINOLOGY 7: 3717:Yes, and the point is that 3544:, typically accompanied by 3491:Yes, and the point is that 2623:03:38, 12 August 2007 (UTC) 2602:03:47, 12 August 2007 (UTC) 2413:15:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC) 2277:or redirect it directly to 1281:What are the objections? - 1124:a disambiguation page (see 549:I agree with Urthogie that 286:01:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC) 175:Latinos helped form hiphop 10: 3889: 3429:02:18, 7 August 2008 (UTC) 3405:09:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC) 3374:15:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC) 3327:15:00, 2 August 2008 (UTC) 3034:, who have been reverted. 3006:17:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC) 2986:08:27, 19 April 2008 (UTC) 2950:17:14, 19 April 2008 (UTC) 2930:22:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC) 2899:04:22, 16 March 2008 (UTC) 2671:04:24, 16 March 2008 (UTC) 2577:13:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC) 2560:17:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC) 2535:14:46, 8 August 2007 (UTC) 2504:13:12, 7 August 2007 (UTC) 2070:. You may want to examine 1587:and rename article simply 912:17:30, 17 March 2007 (UTC) 881:17:30, 17 March 2007 (UTC) 376:13:38, 29 March 2006 (UTC) 334:04:55, 29 March 2006 (UTC) 318:, which was a redirect to 124:17:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC) 88:Please Do Not Editorialize 3810:04:40, 22 July 2008 (UTC) 3792:00:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC) 3769:05:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC) 3610:20:11, 30 June 2008 (UTC) 3569:04:01, 30 June 2008 (UTC) 3304:19:01, 30 July 2008 (UTC) 3271:08:10, 30 July 2008 (UTC) 3254:23:50, 21 July 2008 (UTC) 3238:14:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC) 3200:01:17, 20 June 2008 (UTC) 3185:22:38, 19 June 2008 (UTC) 2474:22:27, 31 July 2007 (UTC) 2440:15:21, 31 July 2007 (UTC) 2404:14:26, 31 July 2007 (UTC) 2391:08:38, 31 July 2007 (UTC) 2352:05:53, 31 July 2007 (UTC) 2326:15:14, 28 July 2007 (UTC) 2303:17:15, 28 July 2007 (UTC) 2286:17:02, 28 July 2007 (UTC) 2253:16:21, 28 July 2007 (UTC) 2212:01:09, 28 July 2007 (UTC) 2157:13:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC) 2108:23:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC) 2091:13:36, 24 July 2007 (UTC) 2056:02:17, 24 July 2007 (UTC) 2043:02:05, 24 July 2007 (UTC) 2006:11:05, 19 July 2007 (UTC) 1997:16:06, 20 July 2007 (UTC) 1983:19:30, 18 July 2007 (UTC) 1962:02:48, 20 July 2007 (UTC) 1942:17:46, 18 July 2007 (UTC) 1915:19:27, 16 July 2007 (UTC) 1886:18:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC) 1781:14:33, 16 July 2007 (UTC) 1725:19:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC) 1709:22:14, 13 July 2007 (UTC) 1683:20:45, 13 July 2007 (UTC) 1670:What would you have in a 1664:20:30, 13 July 2007 (UTC) 1608:19:57, 13 July 2007 (UTC) 1576:16:37, 13 July 2007 (UTC) 1552:06:23, 22 July 2007 (UTC) 1543:?!?! how can you not see 1535:17:50, 20 July 2007 (UTC) 1506:16:06, 20 July 2007 (UTC) 1501:article is being deleted? 1492:11:03, 19 July 2007 (UTC) 1440:14:43, 13 July 2007 (UTC) 1366:I tried to add a link to 1357:15:22, 10 July 2007 (UTC) 1319:06:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC) 1286:05:25, 21 June 2007 (UTC) 1273:Redirect this article to 1238:02:04, 21 June 2007 (UTC) 1225:01:47, 21 June 2007 (UTC) 1203:01:48, 18 June 2007 (UTC) 957:04:10, 6 April 2007 (UTC) 930:01:04, 6 April 2007 (UTC) 891:01:52, 21 June 2007 (UTC) 790:esanchez, Camp Lazlo fan! 668:15:01, 16 July 2007 (UTC) 463:11:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC) 442:10:58, 2 April 2006 (UTC) 416:09:14, 1 April 2006 (UTC) 399:05:30, 1 April 2006 (UTC) 3732:15:39, 8 July 2008 (UTC) 3705:14:29, 8 July 2008 (UTC) 3659:18:29, 7 July 2008 (UTC) 3506:15:39, 8 July 2008 (UTC) 3483:14:29, 8 July 2008 (UTC) 3384:Hip hop (disambiguation) 3221:06:39, 4 July 2008 (UTC) 3158:10:34, 22 May 2008 (UTC) 2415:Appropriate portions of 2317:article, or redirect to 2296:hip hop (disambiguation) 2275:hip hop (disambiguation) 2134:Hip hop (disambiguation) 2066:Thanks for you comment, 1835:Hip hop (disambiguation) 1651:version) rather than to 1645:hip hop (disambiguation) 1643:should be redirected to 1476:all are merged into one. 1414:23:11, 5 July 2007 (UTC) 1399:08:47, 2 July 2007 (UTC) 1331:02:28, 9 July 2007 (UTC) 1275:hip hop (disambiguation) 1245:The problem as I see it: 1231:Hip hop (disambiguation) 1180:16:25, 7 June 2007 (UTC) 1159:If you really must have 1126:hip hop (disambiguation) 1077:or not. There are major 1068:03:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC) 1055:00:08, 7 June 2007 (UTC) 1043:23:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC) 1011:20:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC) 994:20:40, 3 June 2007 (UTC) 976:History of hip hop music 629:05:18, 20 May 2006 (UTC) 605:05:18, 20 May 2006 (UTC) 357:Hip hop (disambiguation) 345:hip hop (disambiguation) 329:already appears to be). 170:13:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC) 161:18:06, 25 May 2007 (UTC) 139:16:55, 18 May 2007 (UTC) 2633:the elements of hip-hop 1635:. However, I included " 904:Grafitti :Spray can art 596:11:50, 9 May 2006 (UTC) 533:17:06, 8 May 2006 (UTC) 524:16:24, 8 May 2006 (UTC) 511:18:24, 5 May 2006 (UTC) 488:22:18, 4 May 2006 (UTC) 3351: 2164:merge (disambiguation) 2114:Merge (disambiguation) 2025:should be merged into 2015:Merge (disambiguation) 1904: 1816:should be merged into 1762:This is not an opinion 1736:Merge (disambiguation) 1613:Merge (disambiguation) 1140:). Let people link to 18:Talk:Hip hop (culture) 3833:of past discussions. 3344: 2960:delete this paragraph 2382:as soon as possible. 2362:Cosprings redirected 1892: 1167:, then at least keep 1163:redirect directly to 917:Hip Hop/Hip Hop Music 902:B-Boy'n :Breakdancing 276:comment was added by 42:of past discussions. 3519:I think of the term 3142:The Rock Steady Crew 2976:what is this crap? - 2427:and from the former 1583:all 3 articles into 1510:The current text of 1416:denverjsmith 7/5/07 972:Hip hop and religion 859:Hip Hop is a Culture 637:politics and culture 310:Redirect or disambig 3742:Hip hop vs. hip-hop 3444:(copied from below) 2368:disambiguation page 2120:cultural text into 1292:proposed structure: 1262:Proposed solution: 1128:), leading to both 553:should be moved to 363:can refer to while 2904:Tone needs cleanup 2144:. Most text from 2140:would be moved to 1859:Hip hop production 1788:Merge and redirect 1374:page redirects to 1138:hip hop subculture 757:Latinos in Hip Hop 559:Talk:hip hop music 107:History of hip hop 3876: 3875: 3845: 3844: 3839:current talk page 3567: 3148:, and many more. 2885: 2873:comment added by 2828:Eric B. and Rakim 2748: 2732:comment added by 2657: 2644:comment added by 2148:will be moved to 2082:which links from 1930:cultural elements 1639:" as I feel that 1547:is why its wrong! 970:I also nominated 955: 798:Cleanup/Footnotes 788:vandalized it. -- 712:i've linked to a 502:what we should do 289: 85: 84: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3880: 3854: 3847: 3846: 3824: 3823: 3817: 3700: 3699: 3698: 3692: 3691: 3690: 3605: 3604: 3603: 3597: 3596: 3595: 3560: 3478: 3477: 3476: 3470: 3469: 3468: 3369: 3368: 3367: 3361: 3360: 3359: 3299: 3298: 3297: 3291: 3290: 3289: 3138:The Art Of Noise 3122:Afrika Bambaataa 2868: 2867:Hola, es peirs 2727: 2682:Thundermaster367 2639: 2620: 2599: 2555: 2554: 2553: 2547: 2546: 2545: 2532: 2499: 2498: 2497: 2491: 2490: 2489: 2068:Rhode Island Red 2040:Rhode Island Red 1952:History of China 1691:and add them to 1637:(disambiguation) 939: 886:involve rapping. 593: 521: 407:Convert them to 393: 271: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3888: 3887: 3883: 3882: 3881: 3879: 3878: 3877: 3850: 3821: 3744: 3696: 3695: 3694: 3688: 3687: 3686: 3647:hip hop culture 3631:hip hop culture 3601: 3600: 3599: 3593: 3592: 3591: 3587:hip hop culture 3529:Hip hop culture 3516: 3474: 3473: 3472: 3466: 3465: 3464: 3440: 3365: 3364: 3363: 3357: 3356: 3355: 3295: 3294: 3293: 3287: 3286: 3285: 3277:hip hop culture 3259:Hip hop culture 3208: 3169:Hip hop culture 3165: 3163:Merger proposal 3023: 2962: 2914:hip hop culture 2906: 2771: 2752:When it passes 2723: 2709: 2678: 2635: 2618: 2597: 2590:Hip hop culture 2585:Hip hop culture 2570:hip hop culture 2566:hip hop culture 2551: 2550: 2549: 2543: 2542: 2541: 2530: 2523:Hip hop culture 2495: 2494: 2493: 2487: 2486: 2485: 2467:hip hop culture 2433:Hip Hop Culture 2380:hip hop culture 2360: 2246:Hip hop culture 2218:hip hop culture 2184:hip hop culture 2172:hip hop culture 2142:hip hop culture 2124:; (2)merger of 2122:hip hop culture 2101:hip hop culture 2072:Goth subculture 2023:Hip Hop culture 1926:hip hop culture 1872:reliable source 1855:Hip hop fashion 1844:Hip hop culture 1839:Hip hop culture 1822:Hip hop culture 1800:Hip hop culture 1715:hip hop culture 1701:hip hop culture 1697:hip hop culture 1693:hip hop culture 1672:hip hop culture 1621:hip hop culture 1601:hip hop culture 1564: 1541:Hip hop culture 1524:Hip hop culture 1455: 1433:Hip hop culture 1425: 1406: 1404:re: Planet Rock 1364: 1305:Hip hop dancing 1268:hip hop culture 1249:hip hop culture 1242:I second that. 1218: 1210: 1195: 1169:hip hop culture 1150:hip hop culture 1146:hip hop culture 1136:(maybe move to 1134:hip hop culture 1032:punk subculture 980:Hip hop culture 968: 919: 898: 861: 822:hip hop culture 814: 800: 773: 759: 740:spurious links. 735: 718:Hip hop culture 714:Chinese version 710: 708:chinese version 675: 639: 621:hip hop culture 591: 563:hip hop culture 555:hip hop (music) 519: 504: 439:Commander Keane 391: 365:hip hop culture 353:hip hop culture 327:Hip hop culture 320:Hip hop culture 312: 272:—The preceding 253: 245: 181: 146: 131: 99: 90: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3886: 3874: 3873: 3868: 3865: 3860: 3855: 3843: 3842: 3825: 3815: 3814: 3813: 3812: 3795: 3794: 3743: 3740: 3739: 3738: 3737: 3736: 3735: 3734: 3710: 3709: 3708: 3707: 3662: 3661: 3572: 3571: 3515: 3512: 3511: 3510: 3509: 3508: 3486: 3485: 3439: 3436: 3434: 3432: 3431: 3416: 3415: 3414: 3413: 3412: 3411: 3410: 3409: 3408: 3407: 3309: 3308: 3307: 3306: 3256: 3241: 3240: 3224: 3223: 3207: 3204: 3203: 3202: 3171:article and a 3164: 3161: 3126:Herbie Hancock 3114:Sugarhill Gang 3107: 3106: 3097: 3088: 3022: 3014: 3013: 3012: 3011: 3010: 3009: 3008: 2978:134.84.102.237 2961: 2958: 2957: 2956: 2955: 2954: 2953: 2952: 2905: 2902: 2875:165.139.228.82 2776:New Jack Swing 2770: 2767: 2766: 2765: 2722: 2719: 2708: 2705: 2703: 2701: 2700: 2677: 2674: 2634: 2631: 2630: 2629: 2628: 2627: 2626: 2625: 2606: 2605: 2604: 2562: 2477: 2476: 2455: 2419:now merged to 2407: 2406: 2359: 2356: 2355: 2354: 2337: 2336: 2335: 2334: 2333: 2332: 2331: 2330: 2329: 2328: 2311: 2310: 2309: 2308: 2307: 2306: 2305: 2224:separate, and 2190:separate, and 2061: 2060: 2059: 2058: 2011: 2010: 2009: 2008: 1986: 1985: 1971: 1970: 1969: 1968: 1967: 1966: 1965: 1964: 1934:SIMPLICITY!!!! 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