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Talk:Murom

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193: 173: 359:"НСкоторыС историки XIX Π²Π΅ΠΊΠ° высказывали ΠΏΡ€Π΅Π΄ΠΏΠΎΠ»ΠΎΠΆΠ΅Π½ΠΈΠ΅, Ρ‡Ρ‚ΠΎ Π΅Π³ΠΎ ΠΌΠ°Π»ΠΎΠΉ Ρ€ΠΎΠ΄ΠΈΠ½ΠΎΠΉ ΠΌΠΎΠ³ Π±Ρ‹Ρ‚ΡŒ ΠšΠ°Ρ€Π°Ρ‡Π΅Π² (Брянская ΠΎΠ±Π»Π°ΡΡ‚ΡŒ) ΠΈ располоТСнный Π½Π΅ Ρ‚Π°ΠΊ Π΄Π°Π»Π΅ΠΊΠΎ ΠΎΡ‚ Π½Π΅Π³ΠΎ Π³ΠΎΡ€ΠΎΠ΄ ΠœΠΎΡ€ΠΎΠ²ΠΈΠΉΡΠΊ Π½Π° Π§Π΅Ρ€Π½ΠΈΠ³ΠΎΠ²Ρ‰ΠΈΠ½Π΅ (соврСмСнноС сСло ΠœΠΎΡ€ΠΎΠ²ΡΠΊ ΠšΠΎΠ·Π΅Π»Π΅Ρ†ΠΊΠΎΠ³ΠΎ Ρ€Π°ΠΉΠΎΠ½Π° ЧСрниговской области). Π”Π°Π½Π½ΠΎΠ΅ Π·Π°ΠΊΠ»ΡŽΡ‡Π΅Π½ΠΈΠ΅ основываСтся Π½Π° возмоТности происхоТдСния Π² Π½Π°Ρ€ΠΎΠ΄Π½ΠΎΠΌ эпосС ΠΎΠ±Ρ€Π°Π·Π° Ильи ΠœΡƒΡ€ΠΎΠΌΡ†Π° ΠΎΡ‚ ΠΏΡ€Π΅ΠΏΠΎΠ΄ΠΎΠ±Π½ΠΎΠ³ΠΎ киСвского ΠΈΠ½ΠΎΠΊΠ° Илии ΠŸΠ΅Ρ‡Π΅Ρ€ΡΠΊΠΎΠ³ΠΎ, Π° Ρ‚Π°ΠΊΠΆΠ΅ Π½Π° Ρ‚ΠΎΠΌ, Ρ‡Ρ‚ΠΎ Π² ΠΏΠ΅Ρ€Π²Ρ‹Ρ… упоминаниях ΠΎ Π±ΠΎΠ³Π°Ρ‚Ρ‹Ρ€Π΅ Π½Π° Ρ‚Π΅Ρ€Ρ€ΠΈΡ‚ΠΎΡ€ΠΈΠΈ юТной Руси, Π΅Π³ΠΎ Π½Π°Π·Ρ‹Π²Π°Π»ΠΈ Π½Π΅ ΠœΡƒΡ€ΠΎΠΌΡ†Π΅ΠΌ, Π° ΠœΠΎΡ€ΠΎΠ²Π»ΠΈΠ½ΠΎΠΌ, ΠœΡƒΡ€Π°Π²Π»Π΅Π½ΠΈΠ½Ρ‹ΠΌ. 84: 53: 239: 221: 22: 362:Однако, ΠœΠΎΡ€ΠΎΠ²ΠΈΠΉΡΠΊ, нСсмотря Π½Π° Π±Π»ΠΈΠ·ΠΎΡΡ‚ΡŒ ΠΊ ΠšΠΈΠ΅Π²Ρƒ, Π²ΠΏΠ΅Ρ€Π²Ρ‹Π΅ упомнянут Π² XII Π²Π΅ΠΊΠ΅ ΠΈ Π±Ρ‹Π» вСсьма Π½Π΅Π²Π΅Π»ΠΈΠΊ, Ρ‚ΠΎΠ³Π΄Π° ΠΊΠ°ΠΊ ΠœΡƒΡ€ΠΎΠΌ, Π²ΠΏΠ΅Ρ€Π²Ρ‹Π΅ упомянутый ΠΏΠΎΠ΄ 862 Π³ΠΎΠ΄ΠΎΠΌ, Π² ΠΏΠ΅Ρ€ΠΈΠΎΠ΄ ΠΆΠΈΠ·Π½ΠΈ Илии ΠŸΠ΅Ρ‡Π΅Ρ€ΡΠΊΠΎΠ³ΠΎ Π±Ρ‹Π» ΠΎΡ‚Π½ΠΎΡΠΈΡ‚Π΅Π»ΡŒΠ½ΠΎ ΠΊΡ€ΡƒΠΏΠ½Ρ‹ΠΌ Π³ΠΎΡ€ΠΎΠ΄ΠΎΠΌ. ΠšΡ€ΠΎΠΌΠ΅ Ρ‚ΠΎΠ³ΠΎ, обсуТдая это ΠΏΡ€Π΅Π΄ΠΏΠΎΠ»ΠΎΠΆΠ΅Π½ΠΈΠ΅, А. И. БоболСвский ΠΎΡ‚ΠΌΠ΅Ρ‡Π°Π΅Ρ‚, Ρ‡Ρ‚ΠΎ ΠœΡƒΡ€ΠΎΠΌ Π±Ρ‹Π» извСстСн Π² КиСвС ΠΏΠΎΠ΄ искаТённым Π½Π°Π·Π²Π°Π½ΠΈΠ΅ΠΌ ΠœΠΎΡ€ΠΎΠ², Ρ‡Ρ‚ΠΎ ΠΌΠΎΠ³Π»ΠΎ привСсти ΠΊ ΡƒΠΏΠΎΠΌΠΈΠ½Π°Π½ΠΈΡŽ Ильи ΠœΡƒΡ€ΠΎΠΌΡ†Π° ΠΊΠ°ΠΊ Β«ΠœΠΎΡ€ΠΎΠ²Ρ†Π°Β» Π² ΡŽΠΆΠ½ΠΎΡ€ΡƒΡΡΠΊΠΎΠΌ Ρ„ΠΎΠ»ΡŒΠΊΠ»ΠΎΡ€Π΅. 94: 249: 369:
However, with Ilya Muromets being a fictional character, the possible birthplace of the historical figure that probably served as his prototype is irrelevant. The fictional figure is still believed to be born near the town of Murom. A "more likely candidate for his birthplace" would therefore aplly
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has been avoided precisely because he is deemed to be fictional, as is attested to in both Russian and Ukrainian Knowledge. There is a page on him in English Knowledge which would link here but, as you say, it is about mythological characters, therefore
202: 67: 374:. It could be discussed, however, if Murom being his birthplace wasn't originally the case but that topic shouldn't be part of this article about the town of Murom. 182: 63: 381: 317:
I've changed the assertion that Murom is the birthplace of Ilya Muromets as it is, in fact, one of two places historians have identified as being his birthplace:
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The Russian Knowledge gives several explanations but seems to credibly assert the town of Murom to be the birthplace:
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the
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in Ukraine, or this Murom (per the article on Ilya Muromets in
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for an article of what is known of and ancient city.
266:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 244: 89: 416: 333:due to proximity to Kiev and other factors. -- 455:Human geography of Russia task force articles 450:Start-Class Russia (human geography) articles 435:High-importance Start-Class Russia articles 19: 203:the human geography of Russia task force 465:Start-Class WikiProject Cities articles 417: 325:). The tendency is, actually, towards 445:History of Russia task force articles 440:Start-Class Russia (history) articles 260:This article is within the scope of 105:This article is within the scope of 15: 38:It is of interest to the following 13: 191: 171: 14: 481: 247: 237: 219: 183:the history of Russia task force 92: 82: 51: 20: 430:High-importance Russia articles 391:I suspect that any allusion to 158:This article has been rated as 1: 282:and see a list of open tasks. 200:This article is supported by 180:This article is supported by 470:All WikiProject Cities pages 288:Knowledge:WikiProject Cities 138:Knowledge:WikiProject Russia 7: 460:WikiProject Russia articles 425:Start-Class Russia articles 343:01:11, 2 October 2014 (UTC) 313:Birthplace of Ilya Muromets 294:WikiProject Cities articles 291:Template:WikiProject Cities 141:Template:WikiProject Russia 10: 486: 351:Fictional β‰  real character 164:project's importance scale 410:07:47, 16 June 2020 (UTC) 232: 199: 179: 157: 115:dedicated to coverage of 77: 46: 386:09:45, 6 May 2020 (UTC) 128:, or contribute to the 196: 176: 28:This article is rated 195: 175: 274:and various other 263:WikiProject Cities 197: 177: 130:project discussion 108:WikiProject Russia 34:content assessment 323:Russian Knowledge 310: 309: 306: 305: 302: 301: 214: 213: 210: 209: 477: 331:Chernihiv Oblast 296: 295: 292: 289: 286: 257: 252: 251: 250: 241: 234: 233: 223: 216: 215: 146: 145: 142: 139: 136: 102: 97: 96: 95: 86: 79: 78: 73: 70: 55: 48: 47: 31: 25: 24: 16: 485: 484: 480: 479: 478: 476: 475: 474: 415: 414: 353: 315: 293: 290: 287: 284: 283: 253: 248: 246: 160:High-importance 144:Russia articles 143: 140: 137: 134: 133: 122:To participate: 98: 93: 91: 72:High‑importance 71: 68:Human geography 61: 32:on Knowledge's 29: 12: 11: 5: 483: 473: 472: 467: 462: 457: 452: 447: 442: 437: 432: 427: 413: 412: 372:Ilya Pechersky 368: 358: 352: 349: 347: 327:Kozelets Raion 314: 311: 308: 307: 304: 303: 300: 299: 297: 280:the discussion 259: 258: 242: 230: 229: 224: 212: 211: 208: 207: 198: 188: 187: 178: 168: 167: 156: 150: 149: 147: 120: 119:on Knowledge. 104: 103: 87: 75: 74: 56: 44: 43: 37: 26: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 482: 471: 468: 466: 463: 461: 458: 456: 453: 451: 448: 446: 443: 441: 438: 436: 433: 431: 428: 426: 423: 422: 420: 411: 407: 403: 399: 394: 393:Ilya Muromets 390: 389: 388: 387: 383: 379: 375: 373: 366: 365: 363: 356: 348: 345: 344: 340: 336: 332: 328: 324: 320: 298: 281: 277: 273: 269: 265: 264: 256: 255:Cities portal 245: 243: 240: 236: 235: 231: 228: 225: 222: 218: 217: 205: 204: 194: 190: 189: 185: 184: 174: 170: 169: 165: 161: 155: 152: 151: 148: 131: 127: 123: 118: 114: 110: 109: 101: 100:Russia portal 90: 88: 85: 81: 80: 76: 69: 65: 60: 57: 54: 50: 49: 45: 41: 35: 27: 23: 18: 17: 378:77.182.14.38 376: 367: 361: 360: 357: 354: 346: 316: 261: 201: 181: 159: 126:project page 121: 106: 40:WikiProjects 402:Iryna Harpy 398:WP:OFFTOPIC 335:Iryna Harpy 276:settlements 113:WikiProject 30:Start-class 419:Categories 319:ΠœΠΎΡ€Ρ–Π²ΡΡŒΠΊ 329:in the 162:on the 64:History 285:Cities 268:cities 227:Cities 135:Russia 117:Russia 59:Russia 36:scale. 272:towns 406:talk 382:talk 339:talk 154:High 111:, a 370:to 421:: 408:) 384:) 341:) 270:, 66:/ 62:: 404:( 380:( 364:" 337:( 206:. 186:. 166:. 132:. 42::

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