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2306:. Seemingly nothing and nobody confirms the 'deflowering' except Gabor herself. A few sources accept the story, but they were never in a position to verify or disprove anyway. This thin evidence would be problematic with any 'stale' claim, but with somone whose public image in part rested on the sheer number and breadth of wealthy and powerful men who had seduced her/ had tried to seduced her/ wished they could have seduced her, it's especially 'iffy'. The previous text didn't 'take a position' as to whether the Gabor claim was true, but neither did it give any context to establish how likely/supported/widely accepted the claim was. Not very seems to be the answer to all three. Probably shouldn't be on this page but only on 'her' page IMO.
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of Turkey into a democratic state. They were misogynistic and did not want women to have the right to access education, obtain property and vote. Furthermore, they collaborated with the
British to undermine the government and destabilize the country. They provided weapons and political support to rebels to advance their agenda. They had ties to anarchist Sheikh Said, who falsely claimed to be of Muhammad's lineage. Not only that, but they were prosecuted for their crimes and found guilty. Let's stick to the facts and avoid entertaining ideas aimed at tarnishing Atatürk's legacy.
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secularism and industrialization were unquestionably beneficial without acknowledging the significant controversy and opposition these changes caused. There's no neutrality; it presents a one-sided view that overlooks the cultural and religious upheaval experienced by segments of the population. As a matter of fact, the entire lead section of the article reads like a dedication plaque straight out of Ankara.
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Kemal Atatürk's reforms did not cause societal tension. The ones who instigated turmoil were reactionary zealots and monarchists resenting they lost their wealth and rights as a result of abolition of the archaic institutions of
Sultanate, Sufi lodges and Zawiyas. They were against the transformation
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Really, each word in that sentence save for the functors is unencyclopedically incomprehensive, and always has a positive, nationalistic connotation, leading to my suspicion of leader-reverent bias. It frame's
Ataturk's reforms as universally positive ("sweeping progressive reforms") and implies that
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Instead of "During this time, the
Ottoman Empire perpetrated genocides against its Greek, Armenian and Assyrian subjects; while never involved, Atatürk's role in their aftermath was the subject of discussion.", is "Atatürk wasn't involved in the genocides committed by the Ottomans during this time,
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This (like all arguments in the encyclopaedia) should come down to sourcing. We have a single, primary source which is an autobio and thus inherently suspicious. Prom provided four secondary cites above (Larry King is a throwaway; an interview with an autobiographer completely fails the
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Wouldn't it be better to rewrite this as "he defeated the Greek Army invasion force supported by the Allies". I don't think there is any disagreement on the fact that
Ataturk defeated "Greek Army" sent by Allies to invade western Turkey?
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A couple of editors are intent on removing any information about
Ataturk's romance with Gabor. It's sourced content, and quite relevant to the personal life of such an important figure. Removing this information violates
2438:"He implemented extensive reforms that established secular governance and promoted industrialization in Turkey, leading to substantial advancements in various sectors as well as significant societal tensions."
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I do not know how to untangle the three most recent changes. Two posts by a newer account with similar edits on related articles pretty clearly constitute vandalism. One deleted sourced content
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but not all of it. Is there an easy way to restore the old content other than manually updating the page? I avoid reverting content whenever possible, so I'm not good at it.
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Placing her name here is out of context compared to other women. I agree this can be mentioned in her article, but not here because as I told, it is out of context.
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The placement of this statement here has the effect of a positive outlook on
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258:. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them.
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Why should we avoid entertaining ideas aimed at tarnishing Atatürk's legacy, or anyone's, for that matter?
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Indeed. This issue is only brought by Islamists to denigrate Atatürk. There is zero proof.
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is amongst scholars. Without that, entirely removing the (weakly) sourced statement is
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argument. I agree with Pincrete that context was missing, but no source is offered to
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when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
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but his role in their aftermath was the subject of discussion." better?
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Gabor wrote about an affair with Ataturk in her 1960 autobiography
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Also, do we need to strengthen the page protection again? Cheers,
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the article says "he defeated the forces sent by the Allies".
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The Kemalists: Islamic Revival and the Fate of Secular Turkey
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Top-importance biography (politics and government) articles
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Wall, Marty; Wall, Isabella; Woodcox, Robert Bruce (2005).
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Perhaps I missed it; when did Atatürk become a prophet?
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establish how likely/supported/widely accepted the claim
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and the second replaced sourced content racist material
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criteria). The strongest is probably the article from
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1303:(51 sections)
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1255:Mid-importance
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1117:the discussion
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627:Top-importance
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593:related topics
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399:On this day...
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52:Learn to edit
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32:
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22:
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2499:
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2349:
2342:The Guardian
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2338:WP:SECONDARY
2303:
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2295:
2294:should read
2289:
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2259:
2244:Chasing Rubi
2243:
2235:The Guardian
2234:
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2203:
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2161:
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2110:
2107:
2088:
2080:
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2033:Bibliography
1937:Translations
1308:Section name
1254:
1221:welcome page
1213:project page
1206:
1200:
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1194:
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1106:
900:
852:
790:
766:
718:
648:
626:
582:
520:WikiProjects
503:
473:
409:May 19, 2005
396:
375:
374:
362:Not promoted
355:
337:
336:
289:is a former
286:
259:
243:
203:
121:
94:
19:This is the
2503:Youprayteas
2417:Didn't he?
2204:Vanity Fair
1765:Balkan Pact
1377:Early years
941:Structure:
833:World War I
31:not a forum
2518:Categories
2356:. Cheers,
2020:References
1481:Presidency
1350:Early life
1225:open tasks
1217:discussion
403:column on
381:Not listed
343:Not listed
1909:Worldwide
825:Biography
738:Biography
674:Biography
508:is rated
393:Main Page
268:citations
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2419:Beshogur
2372:Beshogur
2323:Beshogur
2308:Pincrete
2300:liaison
2114:ACosarTR
2064:237,015
1994:See also
1488:113,913
1122:Politics
1113:politics
1069:Politics
902:criteria
679:Military
544:Politics
266:Include
123:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2358:Last1in
2298:alleged
2145:Last1in
2061:237,015
1917:11,402
1887:15,095
1803:15,525
1683:28,794
1653:11,439
1638:10,308
1608:12,929
1503:68,031
1370:38,139
1357:11,829
1331:21,619
1316:Section
1257:on the
1230:Albania
1208:Albania
1174:Albania
1149:on the
829:Ottoman
629:on the
510:B-class
395:in the
321:Process
295:archive
250:dispute
204:90 days
2476:21fafs
2440:21fafs
2404:21fafs
2296:"This
2053:4,572
2040:9,501
1988:1,520
1973:1,473
1958:3,878
1930:1,263
1914:11,402
1902:3,681
1894:Turkey
1880:Legacy
1874:4,003
1861:7,378
1848:7,090
1833:3,484
1818:3,947
1788:1,562
1773:4,980
1758:2,467
1743:4,933
1728:2,978
1713:5,280
1698:4,860
1668:2,902
1650:11,439
1635:10,308
1623:2,583
1605:12,929
1593:6,580
1578:1,792
1563:2,403
1548:3,321
1533:5,652
1518:5,556
1475:2,013
1460:8,164
1445:6,393
1430:8,217
1415:3,162
1400:4,130
1385:5,988
1354:11,829
1344:5,143
1328:21,619
1318:total
602:Turkey
589:Turkey
539:Turkey
516:scale.
463:, and
324:Result
2354:WP:OR
2302:(has)
2290:(has)
2058:Total
2050:4,572
2037:9,501
2007:Notes
1985:1,520
1970:1,473
1927:1,021
1923:Works
1899:3,681
1871:4,003
1858:7,378
1845:7,090
1830:3,484
1815:3,947
1800:1,004
1785:1,562
1770:4,980
1755:2,467
1740:4,933
1725:2,978
1710:5,280
1695:4,860
1680:1,734
1665:2,902
1620:2,583
1590:6,580
1575:1,792
1560:2,403
1545:3,321
1530:5,652
1515:5,556
1500:2,566
1485:1,563
1472:2,013
1457:8,164
1442:6,393
1427:8,217
1412:3,162
1397:4,130
1382:5,988
1341:5,143
1324:(Top)
1313:count
497:This
128:Index
84:Seek
2480:talk
2459:talk
2444:talk
2423:talk
2408:talk
2376:talk
2362:talk
2327:talk
2312:talk
2282:The
2271:talk
2248:ISBN
2217:ISBN
2170:and
2149:talk
2118:talk
2095:talk
2001:616
1945:242
1337:Name
1311:Byte
727:and
591:and
318:Date
73:and
2400:say
2027:42
2014:24
1998:616
1955:885
1942:242
1249:Mid
1141:Mid
621:Top
2520::
2482:)
2461:)
2446:)
2425:)
2410:)
2378:)
2364:)
2329:)
2314:)
2273:)
2233:.
2202:.
2151:)
2120:)
2097:)
2024:42
2011:24
1884:12
1367:72
991:/
831:/
827:/
823::
799:).
775:).
681:/
677::
542::
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455:,
451:,
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431:,
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411:,
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202::
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188:15
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54:;
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735:.
653:.
633:.
522:.
467:.
401:"
397:"
297:.
264:.
252:.
164:9
160:8
156:7
152:6
148:5
144:4
140:3
136:2
132:1
125::
58:.
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