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NPOV and has been a source of contention for some time. Initially, I was going to reinsert the
Israeli map depiction but realized that others might not be pleased with that for same reasons that I set forth here (just in the reverse). On Commons, they came to somewhat of a decent compromise that merely states the location's geo-coordinates leaving the political element out. I wasn't happy with that but that's the nature of compromise, where no one is ecstatic with the outcome but we can live with it because the alternative means endless bickering. Therefore, the location will be associated with neutral, non-political geo-coordinates. I hope that this satisfies all concerned and welcome any other suggestions.--
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1629:"From the findings, Dr. Margalit concluded that Nimrod Fortress was damaged during its existence by two powerful earthquakes: the first, in 749 AD that hit the massive configuration and the second in 1209 AD that hit the Crusader configuration. The Ayyubid and Mamluk constructions were not damaged as they did not exist at the time of the second earthquake. From this Dr. Margalit concluded that the construction of the fortress could not be attributed to the Ayyubids and therefore determined that the fortress was built in the Hellenistic or Byzantine period and later used by the Crusaders and renovated by the Ayyubid"
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That is more than double the time it was under Syrian control. To present a map that shows it under Syrian control is not only misleading but dishonest. Moreover, the subject area is a tourist attraction and a reader who takes a cursory look at the map may be led (falsely) to believe that the area is under Syrian control. As Iâve demonstrated, most maps show the area as shaded, belonging to neither thus underlying its disputed status. Please also have a look at these additional interactive maps.
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The
Ayyubic theory gained wide popularity and is currently accepted by most scholars . However, it is based on an interpretation of historical texts, rather than on firsthand observations or archaeological findings . In addition, the theory does not explain why and how a local ruler constructed such an impressive fortress in a time of war, far from the front, when the necessary resources and professional human workforce were scarce."
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Also the state of research since 1970, from the introduction from
Margalit work " Ronnie Ellenblum, in his manuscript âWho Built Qalâat al-Subayba?â proposed that the fortress was established in the post-Crusader era between A.D 1220 and 1230 by the Ayyubic ruler of Banias, Al-Malik Al-Aziz âUthman .
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Currently, the Golan
Heights is under Israeli control, and since 1981 has been under Israeli civilian control. It has been under Israeli sovereignty for 44 years (1967-2011) while it has been under Syrian control for only 21 years (1946-1967). The current Syrian map depiction is misleading, violates
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and not accuse editors of editing in bad faith â "playing games," as you say here. That the Golan
Heights are internationally considered Syrian territory occupied by Israel isn't the same as simplistically saying that the Golan is in Syria. It's this difference that makes the map depicting the Golan
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How can a castle be muslim? Did the castle come alive and decide to follow islam? The castle was not built by people who follow the muslim sect. islam was founded long after this castle was built and this castle was built long after
Judaism started. Calling it a "muslim castle" is not neutral and
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It isn't a very good source. Modern sources by experts who specialise in crusader and
Islamic architecture disagree. Eg. Pringle, Secular buildings in the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem, p2; Petersen, Dictionary of Islamic Architecture, p26; Ellenblum, Crusader Castles and Modern Histories, many
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As I have explained numerous times, the digitally manipulated and altered map that you designed and uploaded bears no relation to reality and is contradicted by the numerous map depictions that Iâve provided. The area is under
Israeli control and has been under Israeli control for nearly 45 years.
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Do you not get tired of playing these games? There are countless scholarly sources that make the status of the Golan clear. Finding some news stories about the Golan does not trump that, and is a blatantly obvious attempt to distort the content of an encyclopedia article to conform to some fantasy
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The current map depiction has strong POV overtones and is a digitally altered and skewed map that reflects partisan opinions. The Golan
Heights have been under Israeli civilian control for 44.5 years. They have been under Syrian control for only 21. I have compiled a number of maps from reliable
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The Golan remains under defacto
Israeli control and itâs disputed status should be reflected on corresponding maps. Moreover, Nimrod's Fort is a tourist attraction and as such it's status should at the very least be shown to be within the area of the controlling sovereign so that the reader who
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the area is not disputed territory. it is within the borders of the country of israel and in no way is part of syria. i went there recently and used an israeli visa to get there not a syrian one . it is inaccurate and biased to say that the international community believes it is part of syria.
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The book "Caesarea Philippi" by John Wilson (p151) says it was built by El-Malik Al-Aziz Uthman who died in 1233. He was the third son of al-Adid, brother of Saladin. On p133, Wilson says that the attribution of the Fortress to the Crusaders is due to the misreading of an ancient manuscript.
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pages. Archaeologist Murphy-O'Connor writes in Oxford Archaeological Guide to the Holy Land "The might and majesty of the fortress at one time inspired prejudice to consider it Crusader. In fact, it was thrown up in haste by al-Aziz Uthman, a nephew of Saladin, in 1228â30.".
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template to placate your concerns until the issues can be vetted and hopefully some form of compromise can be reached in a collegial manner. I also caution you from engaging in personal attacks against me. Calling me "expansionist" and part of the âHasbaraâ team as you did
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as part of Syria a POV representation. There's no consensus that it's in Syria any more than there's consensus that it's in Israel. If anything, there're more sources that call the 1974 line the border between Israel and Syria, and this was established at
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world where whatever Israel says goes. Sorry, but this is still an encyclopedia and the scholarly sources that show the international consensus that the Golan is Syrian territory occupied by Israel is not trumped by a selection of news stories.
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is offensive, gratuitous and I ask that you strike it. We are all volunteers here who spend time editing articles so that others may benefit. Engaging in personal attacks against me or others who donât share your opinions is not helpful to the
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as I'm sure you remember. Knowledge isn't allowed to take sides in international disputes. The Golan Heights are internationally considered Syrian territory occupied by Israel and shouldn't be represented as a territory under Syrian
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1522:. In the Hebrew flyer distributed by the Israeli Parks Authority, the builder is also given as Al-Aziz Uthman, described as a "nephew of Salah ad-Din", "younger brother of Al-Mu'azzam" starting in 1227.
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No, the map shows the location as being in the Golan, which is recognized by nearly the entire world as being in Syria. I am reinserting a map and ask that you get consensus for such edits.
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https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328956082_Differential_earthquake_footprints_on_the_masonry_styles_at_Qal%27at_al-Subayba_Nimrod_fortress_support_the_theory_of_its_ancient_origin
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wishes to visit the subject area knows where he/she is going. Accordingly, I have replaced the existing non-neutral, digitally altered, partisan map with a more neutral depiction.--
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the nimrod castle is in israeli territory not syrian. i dont know who this ' international community ' is, but that statement is inaccurate and possibly antisemetic
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How can it be built by Al Azziz Uthman between 1229 and 1290..? If AL azziz Uthman died many years before 1229 according to Al Azziz Uthman's wiki page?
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The sources: 'The Hutchinson Dictionary of Ancient & Medieval Warfare','R. C. Smail - Crusading Warfare, 1097-1193', as Subeibe castle.
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Differential earthquake footprints on the masonry styles at Qalâat al-Subayba (Nimrod fortress) support the theory of its ancient origin
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by the Al-Aziz Uthman who was Salah ad-Din's son (Al-Malik al-Aziz Uthman ibn Salah ad-Din Yusuf) because the latter died
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Hello,can you add in the introduction that it was first built before the middle-age according to archeological findings.
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1518:. It could be the right name with wrong link - twice - though. According to the Hebrew page the castle was built by
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History of Nimrod Fortress is wrong. It was built by the crusaders after 1129 and fell to Nur ed-Din in 1164.
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Have procurred an image/permission wading thru the wikimania to do my first wiki image post (please standby).
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the ruler of Banias, Al-Aziz Uthman, probably with funding from Al-Malik Al-Mu'azzam Isa, ruler of Damascus
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Thanks for bringing this very interesting source, which definitely needs inclusion. I'm reading it now.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Nimrod Castle is maintained by the Israel parks Authority which is definitely not Syria.
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Nimrod castle in the Golan Heights, Israel is maintained by the Israel Park Authority.
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How interesting. Using a map that shows Syrian territory as being in Israel is not
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https://heritagesciencejournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40494-018-0227-9
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Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran
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and says this research supports the thesis of construction in the "Latin era".
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I am pasting here a couple of 19th C refs that didn't fit on the article on
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The Hebrew page quotes an news article from 2018 which itself refers to
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1691:) 23:54, 24 November 2020 (UTC) I'll add the non controversial ref.--
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Knowledge:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard#Maps_of_the_Golan_Heights
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The is an issue with the history: the castle cannot have been built
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Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
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That theory was apparently discarded. You need to give a source.
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Other editors who have commented here have voiced support for my
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2018 study contradict it was first built in 12th-13th cenury!!!
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Timeline of the IsraeliâPalestinian conflict in 2005
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This article has been checked against the following
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1181:Found Image
1117:Middle Ages
1058:Middle Ages
664:Collaborate
349:Structure:
237:Middle East
199:Start-class
148:free images
31:not a forum
1801:Categories
1360:project.--
1187:SchlĂźggell
933:Guy Oseary
725:Edna Arbel
1693:Vanlister
1685:Vanlister
1655:Vanlister
1639:Vanlister
1322:Biosketch
1320:control.â
1192:nice one
929:Guy Bavli
768:See also
624:Rate the
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1759:acceSSed
1706:Old refs
1590:Ydrrbaum
1584:location
1538:contribs
1530:Jolastar
1526:unsigned
1498:Ydrrbaum
1482:Jolastar
1448:contribs
1440:Pkachyna
1436:unsigned
1407:Pkachyna
1388:nableezy
1296:nableezy
1236:nableezy
1063:Crusades
814:Maintain
681:Copyedit
310:criteria
241:Medieval
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1738:ff, p.
1516:in 1198
1512:in 1228
1401:History
1349:WP:NPOV
1144:on the
1033:on the
797:Infobox
642:Cleanup
585:history
558:on the
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
1727:p. 193
1712:Banias
1353:WP:POV
931:, and
899:Update
711:Expand
619:Assess
531:Israel
522:Israel
478:Israel
205:scale.
126:Google
1312:edits
1006:Syria
997:Syria
969:Syria
911:Other
882:Stubs
865:Photo
595:purge
590:watch
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1789:Zero
1785:Done
1769:talk
1750:talk
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1411:talk
1366:talk
1356:here
1326:talk
1282:talk
1252:and
1222:talk
887:See
852:NPOV
819:See
654:and
630:and
580:edit
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
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1136:Low
1025:Mid
831:Map
550:Low
176:TWL
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