1038:
798:
specialty consisting of both inpatient and outpatient environments. The picture representing this article more closely resembles a physical therapy stretch or manipulation of a patient which is not typically performed by a physiatrist, but is rather performed by a member of the allied healthcare team. Physical therapy is a absolutely a standardized therapeutic treatment modality not performed by physiatrists, which is where misconception and patient misinformation stems from regarding this picture. Knowledge, a common online source referenced by patients, should depict a more accurate version of the specialty and the wide breadth of the field.
840:
physician. The illustration I provided depicts a more accurate representation of what the specialty entails including: providing and/or prescribing ambulatory support to an injured patient, discussing musculoskeletal radiographic imaging, and a hospital-based environment where an inpatient physiatrist is often located. I am not suggesting that this is the best photo to represent PM&R, however, I am suggesting that it is more appropriate than the current photo considering that it perpetuates a misconception among patients that PM&R physicians perform physical therapy. See Dodger67's comment above about the InfoBox image.
778:
722:
1112:
a procedure that is often performed by PM&R physicians as a form of pain management for chronic lower back pain. Respectfully, I am not entirely sure what you are looking for to encompass the entirety of PM&R as other specialties' Infobox images captured a core element. This image and the other image I provided are improvements to this article as it differentiates PM&R physicians from physical therapists. Manual manipulation and stretching of an athlete is not a representative aspect of physical medicine, but rather physical therapy. What are you looking for as an improvement if not this?
1198:
881:
misconception which is easily reconcilable to improve patient awareness. It seems that you do not have any expertise on the subject but have quite strong opinions on what does and what does not fall within the niche scope of PM&R. In fact, the concept that which you referred to as 'human body - type actions' and 'health-related activities' fully depicts your lack of understanding on the subject. This photo is a misrepresentation of the specialty and someone with more poise and understanding of this conversation should refer to this and consider this relevant change.
71:
53:
816:
241:
22:
677:
371:
145:
124:
155:
1000:
340:
should focus on imp[roving the sub-specialisation of
Physiotherapists, Occupational therapists, speech pathologists and even nurses and all, to optimize from the shrinking healthcare budget! What wikipedia needs is uptodate writer, living in the 2013, Knowledge needs to rope in conscientious, economical-savy, and timely writer, preferably with PhD in line with global progress.
1167:
spinal cord injuries, among others disabilities. We are not physical therapists as many patients mistake us for. I have taken the liberty of uploading an image that shows a physiologic concept taught to PM&R residents in electrodiagnostic medicine. Please consider changing the image. Enough bickering. Descriptions and caption are provided at the wikimedia link:
867:
would immediately be on the same page about what needed to be done here. This picture shows a man performing some sort of human body - type actions which would be consistent with any sort of health-related activities. Unless a reason is given as to what it is, about this photo, which is a misrepresentation, there's not much to do here. Regards,
1007:. Multiple editors have commented and now I am. I feel that the current image could be replaced, but the alternative proposed is not an improvement. Because the proposer has resorted to personal attacks and forum shopping, this discussion is effectively over. Propose a better replacement in a new section. ~
1126:
I think both of you have good points. In my opinion, the main image needs to be changed. Would you both consider this image? It shows nerve anatomy of the left upper extremity that is often tested by physiatrists via electromyography to diagnose carpal tunnel syndrome, Saturday Night Palsy, and other
1111:
I am trying to be productive and recommend a picture that better represents the specialty of PM&R, which originally included an illustration that depicts the scope of PM&R: ambulatory support equipment, musculoskeletal radiographs, and a clinical environment. Next image I attempted represents
797:
Physical therapy is a modality of treatment performed by
Doctors of Physical Therapy (DPT) whereas a Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation physician is a medical specialist requiring an MD or DO degree. PM&R encompasses a variety of nonoperative procedures and is often a clinic or hospital-based
880:
To be quite frank with you, it seems like you do not have the relevant medical knowledge to add to this discussion. It isn't necessary for you specifically to see a misconception. Patients in the medical system of the United States have misconception of this field. The current image perpetuates this
866:
I don't see a misconception. This isn't a photograph of a man with a lasso on a horse. It isn't a photo of a man in a bishop's miter handing out communion. It isn't a picture of a woman at the controls of a 737 as it glides onto runway 27 at JFK. It's none of those things. If it were, then you and I
634:
PM&R is becoming a popular and mainstream field of medicine, especially due to the sheer variety of fellowships available. More information needs to be written about the specialty and its expanding scope. Patients are unsure about what PM&R entails or when to visit a PM&R specialist. The
909:
I am simply stating facts in this discussion. One editor disagreeing with an improvement request does not negate the truth of the matter. I felt as though I was amicable until he unilaterally decided that his authority as a volunteer editor is enough to close the matter. It isn't. Other editors can
284:
An acquaintance of mine has recently been injured and is afraid that they are going straight to the orthopedic surgeon. So I suggested a physiatrist and the response was "A hoos-a-whats-ist?". I explained what a physiatrist was and went to email my acquaintance a link to this article but felt that,
348:
Change "Short-wave diathermy" link to "Diathermy" - Please see the physiotherapists
Directly. In developing and underdeveloped countries, the poor consumers are forced by the prevailing traditional and unethical medical model practice, and have to pay taxes to sinful redundant useless GATEKEEPERS
1044:
Please consider the following image change to this article as a better replacement than the one above. This picture depicts a treatment procedure known as corticosteroid sacroiliac joint injection, which can be performed by PM&R physicians as a form of pain management. It can be performed for
942:
Is it really a personal attack to shed light on a lack of understanding of a niche subject? I feel as though the argument I am making provides improvement to
Knowledge as a reference source. It is undeniably relevant to this discussion that the editor be versed with medical expertise. There isn't
839:
I am saying that the person in the photo may be a doctor, but it also could be a physical therapist. Respectfully, I am suggesting that there are more encompassing pictures of what a physiatrist does that may mitigate confusion among patients who encounter a physical medicine & rehabilitation
704:
Please change the wikipedia photo for the
Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation page. The profession is often confused with physical therapists and the photo only perpetuates this misconception among patients. Please reference a photo that has a more clinical environment or is a depiction of the
1166:
The poster is correct. PM&R has been misrepresented in this article. PM&R physicians specialize in medical decision-making regarding musculoskeletal, peripheral nervous system, and bowel and bladder dysfunctions in order to restore function to those affected by brain injury, amputations,
1060:
The image could be included in the article with an explanation, but it doesn't seem to be illustrative of the article topic as a whole for the purpose of a lead image in the infobox, and certainly isn't clear how it relates to the topic without an explanation. Therefore, I don't see how it's an
339:
The entire write up is flawed as it in not written with a current, up to date perspective and taking into consideration the surging healthcare cost, the new breed of sub diciplines in medicine, and the redundant, outdated gatekeeper role of the rehabilitation doctor all over the world. Policy
825:
So you're saying the person in the photo is not a doctor? Or there is something that is occurring in the photo which a doctor would not do? I'm not sure where your confusion is coming from with that photograph. You want to replace it with an illustrated icon, but no concrete reasons have been
1077:
I want to begin by thanking you for acknowledging that the current infobox image could be improved. Again, I want to emphasize that this request would likely improve the reliability of this article which many patients reference. Infobox images for medical specialties have generally included
295:
Neil, Please consult a sub-specialized orthopedic surgeon (many Ortho surgeons are highly subspecialized now, its 2015Â !!) and have interdisciplinary practices with the physiotherapists, chiro, occupational etc. You will be much better off, healthwise, and money wise!
357:
Change "Electrotherapy unit" link to "Electrotherapy" - please refer to a
Physiotherapy web Rubbish outdated page, promoting an outdated discipline with high cost implications, power crazy controlling freaks, and draining healthcare budget !!
1078:
procedures, conditions within the scope, illustrations of anatomy, or images of specialty physicians in a clinical environment. For the sake of argument, I will link other specialties on
Knowledge that have demonstrated the same pattern:
245:
312:
so true.... see the ortho surgeon please and see the physio occupational . Its 2019Â !! and a bunch politically driven lowly bred of peculiar doctors are mushrooming across asean region --esp dumb in and around the melayasia
1117:
850:
803:
280:
This page seems off to me. It is hard to describe exactly how but let me relate my experience. I or my family members have been seeing physiatrists on-and-off for 15 years. We have seen 3 physiatrists in that time.
710:
640:
468:
285:
while the article might not be incorrect, it would convince her that she should not see the physiatrist because its outdated and are mere gatekeeper: I'm not a doctor and don't feel qualified to update the page
765:
472:
924:
In theory other editors can consider this request - I just 'considered' it, but what they're going to see (as I just did) is a bunch of personal attacks and no indication that the proposal has
513:
It looks far more like a team therapist giving an athlete a quick stretch before going into action. The photo has none of the characteristics of medical treatment in a clinical environment.
971:
854:
1045:
sacroiliitis, a common cause of lower back pain. This procedure better reflects the specialty and delineates it from patient misconception of PM&R physicians and physical therapists.
714:
756:
1113:
1046:
963:
911:
882:
846:
799:
269:
234:
623:
706:
636:
464:
415:
1141:
452:
1121:
1072:
1018:
619:
411:
324:
307:
1159:
890:
875:
807:
761:
741:
834:
792:
990:
937:
919:
904:
769:
644:
444:
757:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Physical_MedicineandRehabilitationPhysician.jpg/512px-Physical_MedicineandRehabilitationPhysician.jpg
603:
1181:
1155:
533:
407:
502:
328:
289:
401:
Please change therapists to physicians. On of the common complaints among physicians in the field is that we often get confused with physical therapists.
361:
1054:
784:
Physical therapy is not a standardized term, so any confusion is because the term itself is problematic, not because of any images the article is using.
173:
649:
217:
1050:
967:
915:
886:
733:
597:
585:
555:
490:
177:
1177:
1151:
529:
537:
635:
wikipedia photo needs to be updated as well as the physician can be confused as a physical therapist, a common misconception among patients.
567:
483:
outdated
Jurassic programs !!! hey its 2019 going 2020. the ridiculous discipline of rehab doktur is silly Found on the AAPMR page.
478:
1229:
522:
257:
207:
404:
Rehab therapist is the right term--it means trained physiotherapists. Don't be fooled by a bunch of lowly doc doing physiotherapy
1219:
1214:
1234:
1224:
275:
244:
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki
Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
90:
1150:
I have changed the current InfoBox image to something that is more representative of PM&R. Let me know what you think.
977:
Yes, telling people who don't agree with you that they are aren't qualified to comment is 100% a personal attack, which is
823:
The profession is often confused with physical therapists and the photo only perpetuates this misconception among patients.
667:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
615:
320:
303:
1028:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
1133:
573:
182:
1127:
peripheral nerve disorders. PM<&R docs test peripheral nerves and MSK anatomy to maintain and restore function.
895:
Making a bunch of personal attacks on the volunteer who reviews your request is not going to help you get it enacted.
593:
563:
498:
86:
81:
58:
1185:
436:
168:
129:
732:. Once the file has been properly uploaded, feel free to reactivate this request to have the new image used.
1037:
398:
Under "Scope of field," it reads "Common conditions that are treated by rehabilitation therapists include"
33:
440:
729:
543:
751:
747:
1168:
943:
consensus as there has not been enough time or appropriate editors referring to this conversation.
1137:
683:
629:
377:
249:
21:
589:
559:
494:
1197:
1130:
1067:
1013:
508:
39:
1173:
737:
611:
581:
551:
486:
460:
316:
299:
8:
432:
286:
518:
265:
986:
933:
900:
705:
specialty, similar to the cardiology wikipedia page. Thanks for your consideration.
1062:
1008:
752:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Physical_MedicineandRehabilitationPhysician.jpg
748:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Physical_MedicineandRehabilitationPhysician.jpg
657:
Discussion has devolved into personal attacks; no consensus achieved for proposal.
1169:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Electromyograph_of_muscle_twitch_responses.jpg
1032:
160:
868:
827:
785:
424:
1085:(image of a lower cervical vertebral fracture that is treated by orthopedists)
70:
52:
1208:
978:
925:
514:
261:
334:
982:
929:
896:
755:<img width="512" alt="Physical MedicineandRehabilitationPhysician" src="
1131:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/File:Nerves_of_the_left_upper_extremity.gif
578:
Adjusting the chronological order of the history would improve the flow
1092:(image of an abdominal aortic aneurysm treated by vascular surgeons)
352:
240:
1099:(image of cardiac surgeons performing coronary bypass artery graft)
750:<a title="pch.vector, Attribution, via Wikimedia Commons" href="
343:
180:. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at
172:, which recommends that medicine-related articles follow the
1082:
728:
Please make your request for a new image to be uploaded to
1089:
671:
365:
144:
123:
89:, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
1096:
548:
Adding reference to Scope of Field and history sections
235:
Wiki
Education Foundation-supported course assignment
349:
before they are allowed to see the physiotherapist.
150:
453:
Neurological, spinal enthesopathy, site unspecified
1105:
1206:
650:Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2023
176:and that biomedical information in any article
604:Semi-protected edit request on 3 December 2019
826:provided for why the photo is inappropriate.
174:Manual of Style for medicine-related articles
362:Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2016
1083:https://en.wikipedia.org/Orthopedic_surgery
528:Fully agree with you. Needs to be changed.
19:
1201:Electromyograph of muscle twitch responses
1090:https://en.wikipedia.org/Vascular_surgery
258:Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment
1196:
1097:https://en.wikipedia.org/Cardiac_surgery
1036:
1114:2600:1700:2F47:1560:74F9:4058:C505:605B
1047:2600:1700:2F47:1560:F456:7A2D:2567:18D5
964:2600:1700:2F47:1560:F456:7A2D:2567:18D5
912:2600:1700:2F47:1560:F456:7A2D:2567:18D5
883:2600:1700:2F47:1560:F456:7A2D:2567:18D5
847:2600:1700:2F47:1560:4D0F:97C0:1483:D980
800:2600:1700:2F47:1560:4D0F:97C0:1483:D980
608:RUbbish garbage disciplines...…….....
457:Spinal enthesopathy, site unspecified
256:Above undated message substituted from
1207:
1061:improvement over the existing image. ~
707:2600:4040:2B8B:F00:556B:8A35:59F1:A272
637:2600:4040:2B8B:F00:556B:8A35:59F1:A272
465:2601:483:8003:4990:9122:D445:BDFA:8785
663:The following discussion is closed.
166:This article is within the scope of
77:Physical medicine and rehabilitation
15:
762:2600:1700:2F47:1560:594:D72:DA5D:16
183:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Medicine
38:It is of interest to the following
13:
479:Update number of training programs
85:. For more information, visit the
14:
1246:
1108:(image of malignant mesothelioma)
1106:https://en.wikipedia.org/Oncology
979:not permitted by Knowledge policy
1230:Mid-importance medicine articles
1024:The discussion above is closed.
998:
814:
776:
720:
675:
369:
239:
178:use high-quality medical sources
153:
143:
122:
99:Knowledge:WikiProject Disability
69:
51:
20:
1220:WikiProject Disability articles
1215:Start-Class Disability articles
212:This article has been rated as
102:Template:WikiProject Disability
1235:All WikiProject Medicine pages
276:Page Seems Incorrectly Focused
192:Knowledge:WikiProject Medicine
1:
1225:Start-Class medicine articles
1142:16:44, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1122:13:29, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1073:05:10, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
1055:22:54, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
1019:22:21, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
991:22:17, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
972:22:14, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
938:22:11, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
920:22:06, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
905:22:03, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
891:21:43, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
876:20:54, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
855:19:08, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
835:18:59, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
808:18:48, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
793:23:14, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
770:01:02, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
742:05:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
715:07:28, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
645:07:22, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
598:19:13, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
568:19:03, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
523:17:58, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
503:17:12, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
310:) 00:11, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
195:Template:WikiProject Medicine
1160:18:21, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
624:07:59, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
538:17:29, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
473:17:56, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
329:08:03, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
270:06:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
7:
698:to reactivate your request.
686:has been answered. Set the
574:History chronological order
392:to reactivate your request.
380:has been answered. Set the
10:
1251:
445:06:02, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
416:01:03, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
218:project's importance scale
290:12:28, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
211:
138:
64:
46:
1026:Please do not modify it.
665:Please do not modify it.
910:consider this request.
79:is within the scope of
1202:
1041:
746:A new uploaded image:
82:WikiProject Disability
28:This article is rated
1200:
1040:
1081:Orthopedic Surgery:
630:Page Needs Updating.
169:WikiProject Medicine
248:. Peer reviewers:
105:Disability articles
1203:
1088:Vascular Surgery:
1042:
666:
544:Lack of references
250:Cindyshiweinschenk
246:on the course page
34:content assessment
1189:
1176:comment added by
1095:Cardiac Surgery:
1071:
1017:
702:
701:
664:
626:
614:comment added by
600:
584:comment added by
570:
554:comment added by
505:
489:comment added by
475:
463:comment added by
396:
395:
335:Article is flawed
331:
319:comment added by
311:
302:comment added by
232:
231:
228:
227:
224:
223:
198:medicine articles
117:
116:
113:
112:
1242:
1171:
1065:
1011:
1006:
1002:
1001:
873:
832:
818:
817:
790:
780:
779:
730:Files For Upload
724:
723:
693:
689:
679:
678:
672:
609:
579:
549:
515:Roger (Dodger67)
484:
458:
429:
387:
383:
373:
372:
366:
314:
297:
272:
243:
200:
199:
196:
193:
190:
163:
158:
157:
156:
147:
140:
139:
134:
126:
119:
118:
107:
106:
103:
100:
97:
73:
66:
65:
55:
48:
47:
31:
25:
24:
16:
1250:
1249:
1245:
1244:
1243:
1241:
1240:
1239:
1205:
1204:
1035:
1030:
1029:
999:
997:
981:. Kindly stop.
869:
828:
815:
786:
777:
721:
691:
687:
676:
669:
660:
659:
658:
652:
632:
606:
576:
546:
511:
481:
455:
425:
405:
385:
381:
370:
364:
355:
346:
337:
278:
255:
237:
197:
194:
191:
188:
187:
161:Medicine portal
159:
154:
152:
132:
104:
101:
98:
95:
94:
32:on Knowledge's
29:
12:
11:
5:
1248:
1238:
1237:
1232:
1227:
1222:
1217:
1195:
1194:
1193:
1192:
1191:
1190:
1148:
1147:
1146:
1145:
1144:
1128:
1109:
1102:
1100:
1093:
1086:
1079:
1034:
1031:
1023:
1022:
1021:
994:
993:
961:
960:
959:
958:
957:
956:
955:
954:
953:
952:
951:
950:
949:
948:
947:
946:
945:
944:
844:
843:
842:
841:
812:
811:
810:
774:
773:
772:
700:
699:
680:
670:
661:
656:
655:
654:
653:
651:
648:
631:
628:
616:210.186.226.82
605:
602:
575:
572:
545:
542:
541:
540:
510:
507:
480:
477:
454:
451:
450:
449:
448:
447:
408:Sophoskagathos
403:
394:
393:
374:
363:
360:
354:
351:
345:
342:
336:
333:
321:210.186.226.82
304:110.159.104.93
294:
287:Neil Smithline
277:
274:
236:
233:
230:
229:
226:
225:
222:
221:
214:Mid-importance
210:
204:
203:
201:
165:
164:
148:
136:
135:
133:Mid‑importance
127:
115:
114:
111:
110:
108:
74:
62:
61:
56:
44:
43:
37:
26:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1247:
1236:
1233:
1231:
1228:
1226:
1223:
1221:
1218:
1216:
1213:
1212:
1210:
1199:
1187:
1183:
1179:
1175:
1170:
1165:
1164:
1163:
1162:
1161:
1157:
1153:
1149:
1143:
1139:
1135:
1134:192.67.188.24
1132:
1129:
1125:
1124:
1123:
1119:
1115:
1110:
1107:
1103:
1101:
1098:
1094:
1091:
1087:
1084:
1080:
1076:
1075:
1074:
1069:
1064:
1059:
1058:
1057:
1056:
1052:
1048:
1039:
1027:
1020:
1015:
1010:
1005:
996:
995:
992:
988:
984:
980:
976:
975:
974:
973:
969:
965:
941:
940:
939:
935:
931:
927:
923:
922:
921:
917:
913:
908:
907:
906:
902:
898:
894:
893:
892:
888:
884:
879:
878:
877:
874:
872:
865:
864:
863:
862:
861:
860:
859:
858:
857:
856:
852:
848:
838:
837:
836:
833:
831:
824:
821:
813:
809:
805:
801:
796:
795:
794:
791:
789:
783:
775:
771:
767:
763:
758:
753:
749:
745:
744:
743:
739:
735:
731:
727:
719:
718:
717:
716:
712:
708:
697:
694:parameter to
685:
681:
674:
673:
668:
647:
646:
642:
638:
627:
625:
621:
617:
613:
601:
599:
595:
591:
587:
583:
571:
569:
565:
561:
557:
553:
539:
535:
531:
527:
526:
525:
524:
520:
516:
509:Infobox image
506:
504:
500:
496:
492:
488:
476:
474:
470:
466:
462:
446:
442:
438:
434:
430:
428:
422:
421:
420:
419:
418:
417:
413:
409:
402:
399:
391:
388:parameter to
379:
375:
368:
367:
359:
350:
341:
332:
330:
326:
322:
318:
309:
305:
301:
292:
291:
288:
282:
273:
271:
267:
263:
259:
253:
251:
247:
242:
219:
215:
209:
206:
205:
202:
185:
184:
179:
175:
171:
170:
162:
151:
149:
146:
142:
141:
137:
131:
128:
125:
121:
120:
109:
92:
88:
84:
83:
78:
75:
72:
68:
67:
63:
60:
57:
54:
50:
49:
45:
41:
35:
27:
23:
18:
17:
1172:— Preceding
1043:
1033:Image change
1025:
1003:
962:
870:
845:
829:
822:
819:
787:
781:
725:
703:
695:
684:edit request
662:
633:
610:— Preceding
607:
580:— Preceding
577:
550:— Preceding
547:
512:
485:— Preceding
482:
459:— Preceding
456:
426:
406:
400:
397:
389:
378:edit request
356:
347:
338:
315:— Preceding
298:— Preceding
293:
283:
279:
254:
238:
213:
181:
167:
87:project page
80:
76:
40:WikiProjects
1063:Anachronist
1009:Anachronist
760:</a: -->
423:Done Thanks
353:Orphan Link
344:Orphan Link
30:Start-class
1209:Categories
1104:Oncology:
734:Pinchme123
688:|answered=
586:Whit230588
556:Whit230588
491:Whit230588
382:|answered=
96:Disability
91:discussion
59:Disability
1178:OwalalBro
1152:OwalalBro
928:support.
926:consensus
871:Spintendo
830:Spintendo
820:Question:
788:Spintendo
782:Not done:
726:Not done:
530:OwalalBro
427:Doc James
1186:contribs
1174:unsigned
1004:Not done
612:unsigned
594:contribs
582:unsigned
564:contribs
552:unsigned
499:contribs
487:unsigned
461:unsigned
437:contribs
317:unsigned
300:unsigned
262:PrimeBOT
189:Medicine
130:Medicine
983:MrOllie
930:MrOllie
897:MrOllie
216:on the
759:": -->
754:": -->
36:scale.
692:|ans=
682:This
441:email
386:|ans=
376:This
1182:talk
1156:talk
1138:talk
1118:talk
1068:talk
1051:talk
1014:talk
987:talk
968:talk
934:talk
916:talk
901:talk
887:talk
851:talk
804:talk
766:talk
738:talk
711:talk
641:talk
620:talk
590:talk
560:talk
534:talk
519:talk
495:talk
469:talk
433:talk
412:talk
325:talk
308:talk
266:talk
690:or
384:or
260:by
208:Mid
1211::
1188:)
1184:•
1158:)
1140:)
1120:)
1053:)
989:)
970:)
936:)
918:)
903:)
889:)
853:)
806:)
768:)
740:)
713:)
696:no
643:)
622:)
596:)
592:•
566:)
562:•
536:)
521:)
501:)
497:•
471:)
443:)
439:·
435:·
414:)
390:no
327:)
268:)
252:.
1180:(
1154:(
1136:(
1116:(
1070:)
1066:(
1049:(
1016:)
1012:(
985:(
966:(
932:(
914:(
899:(
885:(
849:(
802:(
764:(
736:(
709:(
639:(
618:(
588:(
558:(
532:(
517:(
493:(
467:(
431:(
410:(
323:(
306:(
264:(
220:.
186:.
93:.
42::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
