961:(it is in italics to set it apart from the rest of the article, hence it looks like a quotation). There is necessarily enormous weight to that view because that is what the article is about: explaining what some of the different parts of the Bible and the different biblical authors teach about the Good News. So I've clarified the title a little. Yes, every Biblical scholar or Christian teacher would do it slightly differently, but there the main points would be similar. Actually, in one sense you've hit the hammer right on the head in suggesting it would be a great title for EvangeWiki, as in its original meaning (before modern connotations relating to tele-evangelists etc), "evangelism" meant simply to explain what the Good News (euangelion/evangelion) is. As the article is about the "Good News", the article _ought_ to be explaining what the Bible authors' teaching of the Good News is. The difference is that here the article is not claiming the Bible writers are correct, or that the Good News is true: it leaves the reader to decide for himself or herself. In fact it would be hard to imagine an article on the Good News that didn't try to explain that! Regards,
884:"NPOV says that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints, in proportion to the prominence of each. Now an important qualification. Articles that compare views need not give minority views as much or as detailed a description as more popular views, and may not include tiny-minority views at all (by example, the article on the Earth only very briefly refers to the Flat Earth theory, a view of a distinct minority). We should not attempt to represent a dispute as if a view held by a small minority deserved as much attention as a majority view, and views that are held by a tiny minority should not be represented except in articles devoted to those views."
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claims that Jesus is divine in nature, many people regard it as fictitious, inaccurate or simply irrelevant." It also mentions that some branches of
Christianity interpret the good news differently, "In some branches of the Christian church, the good news is interpreted to be simply a message that God loves humanity and wants people to love one another." Nor does the article claim that the theological message itself is true.
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Hi Robert. Thanks for your helpful comments. I'm gradually adding a few more links and a bit more on differing views. Actually, that isn't a quotation, it is the article's own summary of the Good News according to the Bible writers. I have simply organized it chronologically according to generally
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Gospel is "top". Good news is "low" and should be merged with gospel. At present, it is a meandering, uncited theological piece. ECUSA is not even rated for
Chirstianity - it high for the Anglicanism project and that project alone. I would mark mid or low for Christianity. If you don't like a rating,
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The article specifically states that the message of the Good News is specifically a
Christian message. It does not claim that the Good News is regarded as true by other religions or by a worldwide majority. In fact, near the end of the article, it states, "As the content of the good news makes
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As phrased, the article is a pretty good Sunday School lesson. That would be perfect on a Church's website, but violates NPOV here. There is nothing about contrasting views either within or outside of the
Christian community. Remember that Knowledge is not the proper place for advocacy of any
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Any single retelling of the
Message is necessarily PoV - other Christians would tell it differently. If the single retelling were the Apostle's Creed, for example, it might be defensible as Fh1 defends this, that nearly everyone agrees with it; but the Creed belongs on
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Thankyou for your comments above. I will work on referencing to secondary sources over the coming weeks, and I will add a little more on contrasting views within and outside of the
Christianity. But for now I will just make them a little more prominent, so do stay
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cites it, with a hyphen, from 1976. I dislike what Fowler called bastard formations, but it is unneccesary here: a meta-narrative is one that discusses either itself, or the act of storytelling, which the
Christian narrative does not - although it can be made
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I expanded the article in response to the need, as voiced by
Acjelen, above (19 July 2005). It may not be perfect as it stands, but it does fill the above need for such an article, whilst not making any claims that the Christian message of the Good News is
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Another problem is the lengthy unsourced quotation. In addition to being plagiarism (because of the lack of citation) an article that is dominated by one quotation is giving enormous weight to that view, and this is advocacy in effect if not in intention.
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Whether or not this article is merged, the theology presented in it needs to be sourced to a secondary source (i.e. theologians, textbooks) The Bible is a primary source and the view presented needs to be properly attributed and placed into context.
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and his crew. Moreover, it really does sound like the title of a Bible study course: "The Good News -- the grand narrative of salvation," and that doesn't help the impression of NPOV. In contrast, "Biblical
Narrative (Christian)"
1108:" (Πεντάτευχος, literally "five cases") is a Greek word used to refer to the "Five Books of Moses." The first known use of this term dates to circa 150-175 CE, and it is used by Origen, Athanasius, and Tertullian, among others.
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contains little information on "Gospel" besides the literary genre, specific examples of that genre, and canonical issues. The gospel, as Paul means it in his first letter to
Corinthians, is not covered by the article
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In the sources I gave, it's capitalized when it's a particular Gospel but not just the gospel, which is our subject. I think your ngram is probably picking up a lot of the Gospel according tos and Gospel ofs.
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word says in Koine Greek. The article tells us how it is translated which is definitely not the same as telling us what the Koine Greek meant. Here are two relevant examples of what is missing:
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is "about the literary genre exemplified in the first four books of the New Testament". The Gospel as a literary genre is one meaning of the term "gospel" but it is not as important as the
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As for Gospel being "about the literary genre exemplified in the first four books of the New Testament" - the limiting of that article and the existence of this article are violations of
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Gospel is "top" a top priortiy article for wikiproject Christianity. Good news is "low" and should be merged with gospel. This article is very poor in its present condition. If all the
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Evangelium isn't a disambiguator anyway, because the books are just as much evangelia and the gospel itself. If "the gospel" is too ambiguous I would reccomend
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is both a neologism and a misnomer in this context) of the Bible is worthwhile, and I also wonder if this has not been treated elsewhere in Knowledge.
1568:" redirects here. Evangel can be the Evangelium, but more often it's the specific separate gospels or, still more often, the saints who wrote them. —
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I think the NPOV problems start with the title --use of Good News in this way characterizes a particular understanding of and approach to the Bible (
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it's going to be an outlier. Capitalization of "gospel" is almost always reserved for particular books, and I don't see any justification in
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to "avoid stepping on toes" but I came to your page because you changed my rating, as soon as I had done it, without a explanation. --
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Leaving aside the mess from having forked this in the first place and then moving it to such a bad/misformatted title, currently "
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more encyclopedic. I guess what I am saying is that it would be a great title for EvangeWiki, but it seems out of place here.
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Yeah, after thinking about it some more I think you're actually right. I no longer prefer the capitalized version and would
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There is no content forking. There is really more confussion over how they are different than over them being the same.--
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
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1. The article itself fits into the category in the NPOV guidelines above of "an article devoted to those views "
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3. Brief mention is made that many people regard the message as fictitious, inaccurate or simply irrelevant.
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If you think the article is a poor article than reflect that in the rating of quality and not importance.
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Members of the Church of Christ denomination appear to have treated this article as their property...
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would pretty much put the kibosh on that title (Evangelium). And no disambiguation necessary, really.
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If you think this article is so poor, why don't you improve it first, then merge it with Gospel. --
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I think that an article on Christian understanding of the overarching narrative (I think the term
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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This article is missing its an important attribute. That is an explanation of what the original
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What must be done to make this a valid article would be distinguishing it in some way from
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Besides being contrary to common usage, what justification would you give under
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I also prefer to "The Gospel" but "The gospel" is still better than no change.
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I believe the article does not conflict with these for the following reasons:
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OIC. But that is discussing variations of a liturgical text. This isn't.
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are removed there isn't much here. Those two sections consist solely of
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I'm on the fence; I don't consider either to be entirely satisfactory.
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disambiguator. "Gospel" should not be capitalized in this usage (see
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.
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with bible citations (a primary source) to "back" the claims up. --
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.
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shows the word is not capitalized by mainstream translations. --
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4. It does not claim that the Christian Bible's message is true.
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What must be done to make this a valid article, or part of one.
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Knowledge level-5 vital articles in Philosophy and religion
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of Jesus, which is the orginal use of the term "Gospel".
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Thank you in advance for doing the work on the sources.
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The Knowledge NPOV guidelines, include the following:
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Knowledge vital articles in Philosophy and religion
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1617:C-Class vital articles in Philosophy and religion
662:. The two should be merged. Again, when the long
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1226:Support. Please note the current requested move
934:is misleading. And I am not even talking about
692:" article is in no way about the literary genre.
541:were trimmed, there would not be much left. --
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1305:as per a slight preference in printed sources
524:Which is exactly why this article needs to be
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990:
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258:Christianity
249:Christianity
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191:Christianity
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124:articles to
115:
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51:WikiProjects
34:
1127:—Preceding
1113:Nick Beeson
1090:Koine Greek
820:Let's talk!
792:message. —
1586:Categories
1503:The Gospel
1486:Necrothesp
1478:The Gospel
1431:Yeah, but
1415:The gospel
1403:Evangelium
1352:The gospel
1302:The Gospel
1188:The gospel
1106:Pentateuch
1104:The term "
1014:wikisource
632:Evangelion
570:Good news
1097:Pentecost
39:is rated
1571:Llywelyn
1507:MOS:CAPS
1476:move to
1273:MOS:CAPS
1129:unsigned
1071:Llywelyn
1064:or from
1062:Religion
795:Llywelyn
746:Carlaude
725:Carlaude
648:Carlaude
577:Carlaude
435:Theology
426:Theology
398:Theology
350:inactive
204:Theology
139:Religion
117:Religion
70:Religion
1566:Evangel
1560:Evangel
1499:Comment
1474:Support
1399:Comment
1378:Comment
1350:prefer
1296:Support
1233:Gospels
1196:NATURAL
932:vel non
845:sort.
842:WP:NPOV
676:Secisek
664:In Acts
606:Secisek
543:Secisek
517:Acjelen
462:on the
285:on the
166:on the
41:C-class
1407:Gospel
1332:Here's
1228:Gospel
1206:, and
1192:WP:THE
1066:Gospel
941:sounds
864:tuned.
809:Oppose
707:Gospel
688:This "
627:Gospel
526:merged
509:Gospel
504:Gospel
487:Gospel
481:Gospel
47:scale.
1443:Slash
1363:Slash
1317:Slash
1167:moved
870:true.
705:The "
672:WP:OR
643:tring
539:WP:OR
200:Jesus
196:Bible
28:This
1536:talk
1515:talk
1490:talk
1480:per
1461:talk
1455:. --
1438:Red
1423:talk
1419:Deor
1390:talk
1358:Red
1340:talk
1312:Red
1281:talk
1275:? --
1261:tahc
1243:tahc
1216:talk
1208:this
1204:this
1200:this
1175:talk
1169:. --
1137:talk
1117:talk
1035:Talk
982:Talk
851:Talk
835:WP:V
786:some
768:talk
680:talk
666:and
610:talk
565:HIGH
547:talk
530:DA3N
494:Zeth
128:and
126:good
1532:JFH
1511:JFH
1457:JFH
1384:--
1336:JFH
1277:JFH
1236:at
1212:JFH
1210:).
1171:BDD
998:to.
995:OED
963:Fh1
925:viz
907:Fh1
782:any
561:TOP
454:Top
277:Top
158:Top
130:1.0
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53::
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