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made a more limited scope for this article. I think you precipitated a lot by accusing others of Great-Serbianism etc. and that way you create an unecessary counter-reaction. Now, regarding the matter itself, I can see valid points in your proposal to enlarge this article scope to entire
Yugoslavia. I think that is a better option than creating separate articles for uprisings in different regions, but I am undecided yet. A proper RfM with a proper content discussion, without nationalist distractions, would be just ideal.
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1124:@Director, it is really getting tiring your continuos accusations of "Serbian nationalism" towards other users. Even if, you encounter nationalist editors, it has nothing to do with wikipedia rules. One thing are personal beleaves, and completelly another Knowledge rules and editing. So, if we remove your useless and disruptive blabla accusations of "Great-Serbian nationalism", what we have here? We basically have that you edit-wared instead of making a proper
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876:, or rather a half-dozen of them. Are you suggesting the rest of the rebellion should have a separate article so as to accommodate your love of your country? Should those parts of the central Uzice uprising that took place outside of the imaginary "Serbia" the title refers to be separately covered? How about we create an "Uprising in Montenegro (1941)" article for just some parts of this singular event, would that feel proper to you?
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1428:"federal" on 4th July, when the decision for uprising was brought. Indeed, there were separate provincial committees of the Communist Party for each of the six modern republics, which, as I understand, operated semi-independently. So, it is not entirely without merit to treat each uprising separately.
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But
Direktor, I think you are making a conspiracy theory where there isn´t one. I don´t think no one wanted to pretend Serbia was all over Yugoslavia, it´s just that simply the editors of this article focused primarelly on Serbia and the uprising events that took place in nowadays Serbia. They simply
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There is no common name, a proper Google Books check shows 60 for
Yugoslavia and 52 for Serbia. Quite a few of the Yugoslavia hits are obviously about the coup d'etat, so there is no clear majority of sources. On this occasion, I believe Ad is right, regardless of his motive. The move is opposed, and
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That were small fights, majority of them with few hundreds combatants, but with interesting episodes (switching sides, etc.). Battle of Šabac is one of the earliest, if not the earliest example of 100 killed civilians for each killed German soldier. Battle of
Kraljevo was the last battle chetniks and
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some sort of "plot" than the reverse: it makes sense if you don't really think about it, and aren't familiar with the extent of the rebellion. I also don't think anyone here is actually trying to promote any kind of
Greater-Serbianism. What I'm doing is pointing out that the layout of the article I
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So that's two things. Then there's the obvious fact that if this article does retain its "Serbia" title, that automatically splits the coverage of the 1941 uprising in
Yugoslavia into potentially four or five articles, each more pointless than the next - and ironically analogous to the breakup of
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This article should mention: preparations for uprising (revisionst like to point that CPY launched uprising only when
Wehrcmaht attacked USSSR - in fact preparations begun already in May), Mihailovic's opportunistic views, Partisans action in July/Augusts, joint Partisns-Chetniks attack western
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So if the title is indeed a product of unfamiliarity with the full scope of the rebellion, that makes it no more of a good idea. But I think it does betray a bit of "Serbian-centrism", if you will, as I can't believe anyone who's read-up on this could imagine the rebels actually stopped at the
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There might be a certain bias among us "local" editors, as we were taught in elementary schools about 6 distinct uprisings, one in each constituent republic. Each republic had a different public holiday (five between 7th and 27th July, plus
Macedonian on the 9th November) and the seventh was
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the "Serbia" in the title refers to
Greater Serbia (likely unintentionally), and am mentioning that as another entry in the list of serious problems that title would have. What I'm angry about is constantly expecting Antidiskriminator's "oversight" whenever I edit anything
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sure! It isn't a "Serbia issue" with you guys around if it doesn't take at least a month. Maybe we can have an RM that takes five weeks, and spend hundreds of hours pointlessly debating over the most obviously-beneficial improvements to the project? Every suggestion
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Serbia, Republic of Uzice, creation og
Goverment of Nationa Salvation, chetnik-partisan split nad Mihailovic offer to Wehrmacht to fight agaist partisans and their decline, operation Uzice, operation Mihailovic. See Serbian article. --
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which it took place. Not only that, but to have that sourced map up there showing the extent of the rebellion, and calling it "uprising in Serbia", can also be seen as highly offensive in implying "Serbia" refers to
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to do that is another issue. As its scope is currently outlined, this article could stand the scrutiny, however, most sections are stubs. I can't find much material on Knowledge about other uprisings in Yugoslavia;
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I have gone ahead and structured it like that and copy edited it. I probably won't get to help expanding it properly for several weeks though. I've removed the speedy delete tag based on the scope outlined above.
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G'day, I assume you have some sources for the large number of sections entitled Battle of...? Perhaps the sr WP article has citations? Unsourced material will get tagged fairly swiftly. Regards,
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Can I get it clear what you are saying? Do you consider this should have a background section, then a section covering 1. the uprising to late September, then summary sections covering 2. the
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Not only is it wrong as such, its also offensive and misleading as it inescapably suggests "Yugoslavia" is somehow equivalent to "Serbia". One can interpret that as an expression of
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we can cover this (one) uprising in multiple articles, the scopes of which would be arbitrarily cut off at the vague imaginary border of a vague, imaginary 1941 "Serbia", or
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This article should cover all events from April/May od 1941 until December 1941. Republic of Uzice was formed in September/October and lasted until end of November. --
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Yugoslavia in a pretty comical way ("this isn't Serbia so we're splitting away.."). There's also the fact that these people in 1941 were fighting and rebelling - for
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Agree in all respects, there is plenty of material to populate this article, which might eventually be a content fork of the summary article you refer to.
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I get sick of repeating something so self-evident, but "Serbia" didn't have a border between 1929 and 1941, because it wasn't a subdivision of Yugoslavia.
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1074:@Peacemaker, setting aside the fact that the current title is more common no matter how you slice it, I'd like to point out that this is really about the
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in summary style, with local uprisings having individual articles where necessary, but we cannot force editors to work in that particular order.
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and its nations. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
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to refer to these territories as "Serbia" from a factual perspective. Then there's the issue of a-historical terminology, and the fact that
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comments about me, Google count estimated hits or few maps you brought here can not justify violation of wikipedia rules. Please follow
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weighed with regard to whether its somehow anti-Serbian on some level, or part of an anti-Serbian plot? Then, if you don't manage to
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1247:(aside from "Greater Serbia" ofc) does any part of Bosnia or Montenegro or Croatia or Slovenia(!) fall under the term "Serbia".
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Locator map of Serbia in Yugoslavia; of course, by 1941 there was no "Serbia" anywhere for about 23 years...
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1443:. I suppose it would be more logical (and I would prefer that) to have an overview article about
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we can have one article about this one uprising, and define it by the real historical country
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the "Serbia" from your preferred title? Because that certainly can be seen as the implication.
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Sourced map of the uprising; incidentally, the caption says "Uprising in Yugoslavia, 1941"
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Incorrect. Deghosted search results shows there are more hits for uprising in Serbia (
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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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everything, you can "threaten" to boycott the article like Antid's proclaiming. Now
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And its really tiring for me to point out that I'm not making random claims but can
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No, let me be clear: I think it far more likely the naming of the article was
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I would if I could read the lingo. But we seem to be in rough agreement.
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I put forward here. Since the accusations aren't my argument. Obviously.
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how Google tests are performed. And I'll not create POVFORKS, thanks.
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If we remove accusations of Serbian nationalism we have absolutely
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I contested your move of this page with valid argument given. Your
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what area "Serbia" is supposed to refer to in a 1941 context (
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Not surprised to see someone like you promoting a nationalist
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888:, and I'm moving it back. Otherwise, we can handle this on
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And - on top of all this, what little can be divined from
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My motive? This is another article I will never edit. --
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partisans waged against Germans; it was trigger for
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This article has been checked against the following
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1253:Yugoslavia.
991:Flag-waving
539:Structure:
199:Start-class
148:free images
31:not a forum
1523:Categories
1385:FkpCascais
1324:suggesting
1305:FkpCascais
1130:FkpCascais
874:WP:POVFORK
261:Yugoslavia
256:Yugoslavia
228:Yugoslavia
1268:carefully
1235:or maybe
976:WP:GOOGLE
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1349:Director
1283:Director
1126:WP:RM/CM
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833:Renaming
500:criteria
423:European
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
1261:I mean
1257:WP:SETs
713:and 4.
389:on the
154:WP refs
142:scholar
1276:that's
1144:easily
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362:Serbia
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205:scale.
126:Google
1217:wrong
1088:where
1076:scope
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759:Talk
709:, 3.
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169:JSTOR
130:books
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812:).--
381:High
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
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