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and the incident is not sufficiently important to include in this template anyway - it's a subset of the general global warming controversy, not a high-level issue of the kind that should be included in a template like this. Otherwise we would have to include every single controversial episode, which
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Of all the native
English speakers on the planet, approximately two-thirds reside in the United States and speak American English dialects. In light of this, is there a particular reason why this template is presented in British English, or is there no policy or general consensus on the preferred use
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I think the 'Opinion and
Controversy' infobox subsection should be promoted to a section, rather than buried under causes. The controversy and ethics etc are not just about causes, but also about whether it's real, and what the right response should be. I don't have a clue how to do this. (and then I
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You seem to be missing the point. A portal does the same thing, but much better. There are way too many links for this to be a navblock. Saying that it is auto-collapsed fails to recognize that it still takes just as long to download whether it is collapsed or not. When I look it over all I see is a
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While they are interesting, they are very much secondary effects, or tenuously linked to the main list of "Potential effects and issues". Given the sensitivity of getting agreement on that latter topic, I think we'd best exclude the "Related
Phenomena" from being a major heading. The template is too
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the most favourable scenario used in the models indicates a couple of degrees warming as inevitable and already in the system. Some of the effects have already been noted on a relatively minor scale, though direct attribution is often problematic. Not sure what you mean by the last sentence though,
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No. I could find no
Knowledge articles to replace them. That's not very surprising. The specifics of adaptation are in the future. If anyone can get the "Adaptation" category to stay in place without dummy text like "TBA" or, better, with links to appropriate Knowledge articles - well, my gratitude
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There are lots of ways of coming up a "most relevant" statistic. WP MoS says that the first dialect used sets the precedent. It seems that this article started using
British English, so stick with it unless there is a consensus to do otherwise. My vote is for the status quo & so stick with the
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OK this may make me unpopuar but... I have decided this template works better at the end of articles as a centred template. I have also now added it to all the articles it lists - most did not previously include it which seems somewhat odd. I am about to go away for a while so if you don't like it
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I'm not saying that 20% is significant, but in my opinion listing it under "effects" implies some degree of certainty that it is an effect. For example, I don't know of anyone who doubts that sea levels will rise if the Earth warms as the IPCC projects. The language of the template implies that
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I don't like it. "Causes" that are both natural and anthropogenic are slotted into the "Anthropogenic" sub-section. Likewise, "Global cooling" and "Cloud forcing" (no, I'm not a confirmed
Svensmarkian, but ...) are slotted exclusively into "Natural". "Scientific opinion on climate change" is also
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I don't have a problem with the entry as it stands, as long as its balanced in the interests of encyclopedic coverage. Technically speaking most/all of the effects identfified by the IPCC are speculation and bound up in estimates of probability. But some are more likely to occur in a significant
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range than others. Some may be more serious over longer time horizons but then the models get less accurate. From the above it seems you don't consider a 20% likelihood as significant. But if we were talking about medicine, then catastrophic side-effects in 1 in 5 cases would be very serious.
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Some are more likely than others, but this varies according to model scenario & timeframe. Would you feel more comfortable if that set was titled, rather than "Effects", as "Risks" or "Possible effects"? (A ref to the scenarios used by the IPCC/Hedley centre models should also be included
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I think either of those titles would be more appropriate, as they don't imply the certainty that the current titles do. After all, everything is contingent on warming actually happens, which the IPCC and others concede could be mitigated or reduced if something like Kyoto is passed.
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With the US not signing on and other big polluters like China exempt, Kyoto isn't going to do much. What I meant in that sentence was "passed in the US and effective in the 3rd world." But I digress. Are there any objections to creating a new "potential effects" section and moving
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Both links in the
Adaptation section at the end are to articles about attempts to mitigate global warming. (I'm not sure they belong anywhere in the template. They are part of the Kyoto process and there are probably many similar programmes to cut emissions.)
369:. Some do, or could be enhanced to deal with recognition of change and adaptation issues. There are a bunch of interesting things that has alrteady come out of the Insuarnce industry & FCCC but that would need some sifting through of published sources.
426:(speculative, based on a single study that suggested the possibility as far as I can tell). These two should either be moved to a new section called "potential effects," the section should be renamed, or they should be removed from the template.
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While it's true that ozone depleting compounds like CFCs are also greenhouse gases and minor contributors to global warming, the inclusion of this "issue" here is likely to confuse readers. Anyone mind if I remove it?
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now, although I don't like the fact, that it is mentioned first. The carbon dioxide article is clearly more important. However, the topics are ordered alphabetically, so I just stick to the rules. As for linking
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1)Doesn't make any sense 2)Politics of global warming is already internally linked as politics but the UNFCCC would probably be good 3a)I would agree but I am not an expert on the subject 3b)Sounds good
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somewhere (though probably as no more than a placeholder at the moment), & items on
Adaptation if we can get these articles in a suitable format. I'm thinking of some of the following:
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would make the template far too long to be useful. Note that other controversial issues like the hockey stick controversy aren't included? That's because they're not high-level issues. --
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Is there a possibility we can put the Methan/ clathrate/ permafrost issue into this template? Maybe under issues? There are only two topics in it, so a third topic would not feel crowded.
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With the "Global warming" article so long, with so many citations, I think that this template would be much more effective if it were positioned on the right side of the articles, like
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Would suggest all "Effects" be moved under "Potential effects", not just those two, to avoid having to make a subjective choice on the significance of the probability/scenario
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I disagree. It is not that big, it is auto-collapsed, and it serves as good direction for those that want to navigate from page to page without having to go back to a portal.--
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mass extinction and thermohaline circulation shutdown are widely believed to be effects of warming, which they're not. That's why I believe some qualification is necessary.
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sounds sensible - shame there isn't an equivalent article for shipping or other transportation (unless someone can direct me there? I also suggest we link the article
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I do not see a problem with keeping this section as these are important effects of climate change. Glacier retreat does not belong in a climate change template?--
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I don't know how to do it but this template is a good candidate for being portalized, it is way too big to be useful, and should be converted into a portal.
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as Kyoto has been sufficiently ratified to come into force & the 5-year compliance period starts on 1 Jan 2008. The question is what follows it.
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But then again, this is frivolous to me, so someone else can fight the good fight - I was just letting you know why I did what I did. Regards.--
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Some of the "effects" listed in this template are speculative, and are generally regarded as less than likely. The two I object to most are
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It was just inconsistent before. Why "global dimming" and "Global cooling?" I think all capitalized looks better than all lower case.
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long for my liking, already. However, I'd not be averse to seeing these articles linked into a new wikilist, called something like
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231:(edit conflict)Bluetie, personally i agree that artificial is a strange wording here. But your argument is rather bizarre - the
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does not appear to be a link, because you are already there. But I got confused about the same thing yesterday :) --
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I do not think artificial is right. Human's are natural and it is natural for things to respond to our inputs. --
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I don't think that GW controversy and the skeptics list under politics. The idea would be something like this:
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found that 9/12 climatologists believe the likelihood of this is <= 20% given current IPCC projection) and
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So I don't know normal template etiquette, but why a wholesale change rather than incremental improvement? --
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This version of the climate change link box looks like an army on parade. Things really aren't that simple.
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that we should not use the term
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Opinion and controversy section. If anyone opposes this, please provide an explanation. Thanks.
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lot of fine print like at the bottom of a financial disclosure and none of the links are usable.
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linking. Since you removed it from this template I hope you strongly agree with this addition
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It would have been better discussed in the section below, first. I've removed them, as before
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So is this being discussed? Implemented? Worked on? Copypaste of my comment on the GW page
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seems uncontentious & logical stablemate to Kyoto Agreement section. Consider it done.
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Kudos to you folk for making it. It was really needed and serves an important purpose. --
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could by the same token be said to be a natural structure - at least as natural as
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Absolutely no. It's a blatant POV term, the article is not at that name anyway,
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Question: Why not delete controversy section altogether? It's not very helpful.
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Remember that these threads are over a month old. The section is relevant.
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Thinking more on this, the template would probably benefit from links to
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They weren't meant to be capitalized, but whatever works. :-) Cheers. ~
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_Potential_Effects_or_Possible_Effects?-2007-10-25T19:25:00.000Z": -->
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_Potential_Effects_or_Possible_Effects?-2007-10-25T19:25:00.000Z": -->
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United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC / FCCC)
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There are still some illogicalities & I suggest some more moves:
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Did not want to get into frivolous edit war over "human-made";
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I deleted this new list on the template, that had itemised:
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Most global warming pages (that I saw) use term "man-made";
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I don't understand why people are removing internal
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List of climate change-related effects and phenomena
1113:: it is already linked. Only, when you are in the
1951:Individual and political action on climate change
1645:Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
2254:Climatic Research Unit e-mail hacking incident
2088:Seems a good idea to me. Thanks for spotting.
1368:Proposed change: create new line "Controversy"
350:you could take a look at some of these items:
1661:Scientists opposing the mainstream assessment
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562:Scientists opposing the mainstream assessment
438:_Potential_Effects_or_Possible_Effects?": -->
435:_Potential_Effects_or_Possible_Effects?": -->
431:_Potential_Effects_or_Possible_Effects?": -->
412:_Potential_Effects_or_Possible_Effects?": -->
590:3b) rename heading Potential effects =: -->
2256:. This is not a unimportant small events.
1889:Carbon dioxide sink (Carbon sequestration)
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1338:. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
819:Mitigating and adapting to global warming
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1839:United Kingdom Climate Change Programme
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1208:be added, please? Yours optimistically
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319:United Kingdom Climate Change Programme
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404:Potential Effects or Possible Effects?
136:Template:Politics of the United States
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
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809:National Assessment on Climate Change
387:listed as a cause of climate change.
1752:Shutdown of thermohaline circulation
1468:Scientific opinion on climate change
1115:Attribution of recent climate change
1107:Attribution of recent climate change
1080:Attribution of recent climate change
777:scientific opinion on climate change
657:scientific opinion on climate change
652:attribution of recent climate change
520:shutdown of thermohaline circulation
416:Shutdown of thermohaline circulation
317:They seem to have disappeared? e.g.
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1919:Renewable energy commercialization
1175:Critical Infrastructure Protection
1061:, I would like to add the article
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2027:Avoiding Dangerous Climate Change
1833:European Climate Change Programme
883:European Climate Change Programme
361:Business action on climate change
355:Business action on climate change
323:European Climate Change Programme
1315:of the English language here? ~
138:or a number of other templates.
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2182:None of the links are usable?--
80:then change it yourself! :-) --
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804:Global warming and agriculture
591:Potential effects & issues
167:Human / man-made vs Artificial
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2106:TeH nOmInAtOr
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2019:
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28:
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2137:
2118:
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2069:
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2029:
2009:
2003:
1997:
1991:
1985:
1947:
1927:
1921:
1915:
1909:
1900:conservation
1885:
1879:
1873:
1867:
1861:
1841:
1835:
1827:Governmental
1819:Bali roadmap
1815:
1809:
1774:
1768:
1748:
1746:Season creep
1742:
1736:
1730:
1724:
1718:
1712:
1706:
1700:
1694:
1663:
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1601:
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1509:
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1497:
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1427:
1418:Temperatures
1371:
1335:
1327:
1317:
1313:
1267:
1241:
1214:
1211:Vernon White
1206:Bali roadmap
1203:
1200:Bali roadmap
1140:
1118:
1110:
1083:
1058:
1054:
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1024:
1016:
997:
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980:Fossil fuels
908:
891:
818:
783:
758:
754:
726:
707:
646:
629:
624:
602:
594:
555:
552:More changes
410:
392:Vinny Burgoo
389:
385:
339:Vinny Burgoo
316:
310:Vinny Burgoo
306:
292:
277:
248:
233:Eiffel tower
211:
209:
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140:
133:
108:
78:
60:
43:
37:
2244:Agree with
2212:Smallman12q
2208:climategate
2202:Climategate
2021:Initiatives
1966:adaptations
1654:Controversy
1263:Thermokarst
1169:/shelters,
472:soemwhere)
36:This is an
2073:Thoughts?
1974:Strategies
1871:Carbon tax
1791:Mitigation
1760:By country
1678:and issues
1563:Glaciation
1443:Since 1880
916:Glaciation
839:Carbon tax
303:Adaptation
200:Wiktionary
194:Artificial
141:johnpseudo
96:Richard001
75:Discussion
2134:Portalize
1766:Australia
1605:Volcanism
1309:Programme
1117:article,
952:Volcanism
932:External
913:Internal
578:3a) move
67:Archive 2
61:Archive 1
2286:relevant
1964:Proposed
1632:Politics
1483:Aviation
1334:(1997).
983:Land use
625:Overview
560:1) move
337:is TBA.
281:Plumbago
263:Old Hoss
224:Old Hoss
212:Man-made
190:Look up
173:Blue Tie
156:Blue Tie
82:NHSavage
1980:Damming
1853:Schemes
1710:El Niño
1698:Drought
1686:General
1545:Natural
1305:Program
1124:Splette
1068:Splette
1021:Comment
923:El Niño
784:Effects
688:others
572:&
522:there?
289:Methane
39:archive
2246:ChrisO
2232:ChrisO
2184:Jorfer
2170:Apteva
2155:Jorfer
2140:Apteva
1898:Energy
1618:Models
1551:Albedo
1458:Causes
1354:Ephebi
1290:Jorfer
1275:Ephebi
1224:Ephebi
1187:Ephebi
1151:LULUCF
1119:Causes
1111:Causes
1088:Ephebi
1084:Causes
1057:-: -->
1055:Causes
1053:Under
1036:Jaymax
727:Issues
708:Models
647:Causes
606:Jorfer
596:Ephebi
586:=: -->
582:&
574:UNFCCC
565:Models
564:=: -->
533:Ephebi
502:Ephebi
474:Ephebi
446:Ephebi
371:Ephebi
328:Ephebi
255:Touché
2075:Oren0
1939:Other
1772:India
524:Oren0
488:Oren0
456:Oren0
428:Oren0
420:study
121:Oren0
16:<
2298:talk
2294:Nsaa
2276:talk
2262:talk
2258:Nsaa
2252:and
2236:talk
2216:talk
2188:talk
2174:talk
2159:talk
2144:talk
2125:talk
2110:talk
2094:talk
2079:talk
1408:and
1358:talk
1340:ISBN
1318:S0CO
1307:vs.
1294:talk
1279:talk
1228:talk
1204:Can
1191:talk
1092:talk
1040:talk
855:and
851:and
811:(US)
518:and
239:. --
111:UBeR
1109:to
1086:.
1082:to
261:.--
198:in
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1329:†
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1261:·
1257:·
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1230:)
1193:)
1181:,
1177:,
1173:/
1161:/
1157:/
1153:/
1149:/
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1070::)
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604:--
321:·
279:--
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2057:·
2051:·
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2010:·
2004:·
1998:·
1992:·
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1948:·
1928:·
1922:·
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1398:e
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1356:(
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50:.
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