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talk:WikiProject Constructed languages - Knowledge

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notability, verifiability etc. anyway. In other words, for people who want to write new articles, there is little to be done here. However, there are several other things that need work. If you take a look at the hundreds of articles we have in this project, you will notice that many articles are full of ugly tags - expressing doubts regarding notability, original research, neutrality etc. - and that most of those that don't have them are very short articles that probably managed to fly under the radar. Indeed, many conlang articles have little or no references. One thing you could try is expanding existing articles, improving them, finding sources for them, addressing tags, and also removing stuff that actually shouldn't be there at all (for example because there is no way of checking certain info). Constructed languages that have not been added to the project yet should be added and evaluated.
1932:. Another editor keeps adding stronger statements than the sources actually support. For example, a source reconstructs the possible Elizabethan pronunciation of this language. The editor titles the corresponding table "Dee's pronunciation" when the source never actually makes that claim, but rather the weaker claim that the table probably represents what the language sounded like to Dee. He is also repeatedly adding the category 'constructed languages', but when asked to back that up, cannot provide a source that makes that statement, instead providing definitions of the term, and claiming that is enough to support the category. Any eyes and editors willing to point out his error in understanding what 1853:
different varieties under the banner of one language. In other words, as soon as a project has a name and an author, it is automatically assumed that it is a language distinct from any other. During my research on Interslavic, I quickly found out that this approach is not only impractical, but also inherently wrong. Not only are the numerous naturalistic Pan-Slavic language projects from past and present almost identical to each other, they are essentially attempts at the very same language—differences are mostly in orthography and personal bias of their authors. I imagine the same thing should also go for most Pan-Romance language projects.
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have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at
251: 1615:, the definition of a Volapükologist does not require much (according to that very definition, I am one as well). It would be sufficient to mention that a person is a member of the Volapük Academy since XX/XX/XXXX, wrote this and that in or about Volapük, is an active member of the Volapük community, etc. IMO categories should never give information that is not contained in the article itself (but I am aware of the fact that it happens often anyway). — 128: 1364: 177: 159: 187: 1133:
consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you.
1316: 301: 1866:"Where there is enough intelligibility between varieties to enable communication, the existence of well-established distinct ethnolinguistic identities can be a strong indicator that they should nevertheless be considered to be different languages. This is particularly considered when there are political boundaries separating the language communities." 680:. Jon made a proposal, and I made one based on Jon's. I'm not going to advertise mine in comparison with Jon's. The basic difference is that Jon tries to cover almost all conlang-related articles, while I tried to limit myself to the most important stuff. Anyway, I think we should find an answer to the question which one to use: 1515:
language (at least to some degree), the only difference being the degree in which the subject takes the whole thing seriously. Obviously, nowadays nobody takes Volapük seriously as a contender for a world language, and in the case of people living 100 years ago it is not always easy to find out what there motives were.
1868:) doesn't apply in this case, since even the author of Romanica is also a prominent member of the Interlingua community. To push the same thought even further: in my view Romanica and Interlingua are both part of the same family of language varieties as Latina Sine Flexione, Latino Moderne, Romanova etc. 1899:
article today adding in phonology and writing systems sections. I hope so far I'm doing everything okay, but like I said, I'm very new, so please let me know what I should/shouldn't be doing if you can (including whether or not I should even be posting this). I'll continue adding to the Kēlen article
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I've noticed that some of the articles are people who are on Knowledge simply because they speak Esperanto & are well known. Shouldn't there just be a list titled Fluent Esperanto speakers that you can get to from the Esperanto page? If that is done it tells just about as much info as a good deal
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From what I have understood, Esperantology is the science that deals with inner linguistics of Esperanto. That does not really match the description "a volapükologist is a person whose scientific interest is Volapük or who learns the language for hobby reasons". To say the least, this looks like one
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There is absolutely no shame in Romanica essentially being an adaption of Interlingua! In fact, I believe this is even much better for both sides than Romanica just being number 2055 on an endless list of auxlangs. Consequently, it would IMO be better for Romanica to be mentioned on the Interlingua
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I had noticed for a while now that the Knowledge article 'Interlingua' has a 'Romanica' redirect. This redirect is really unjustified. A community of users have been present online on social media platforms as well as mailing lists for many years using Romanica and various related varieties of that
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For the record, how real and how relevant is the difference between Volapükists and Volapükologists, really? Is it documented somewhere, or is it in fact original research? I am asking, because to me this whole differentiation looks a bit artificial. After all, both must have learned or studied the
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I have a slightly different point of view on this one. First of all, for some reason it is always assumed that constructed languages cannot have dialects. They can have versions, iterations, reform projects and so on (where one automatically invalidates the other), but no dialects in the sense of
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proposal for an appreciation week to end on Knowledge Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who
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are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please
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page, which has ca. 200 visitors a day, than to have its own page with no more than 10 visitors a day. Besides, there is always the notability problem: without a reasonable amount of non-trivial coverage in reliable, third-party sources, a separate article wouldn't survive here anyway. Cheers, —
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I slightly prefer yours to Jon's, but I think it needs to be pruned even further. It's roughly the same size or even larger than some of the smaller conlang articles, which seems excessive. Probably it should just link to the main articles about types of conlang, and maybe some articles about
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So I'm new to wipedia & I'd like to get involved in this Wiki project but this place seems deserted. I've found out its not but I would like perhaps a bit more guidance on maybe what to do. And maybe what you're looking for in articles & what do they need to be qualified into a Conlang
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and replace it with a link to it. It's not my preferred solution, because there is quite some overlap between fictional languages and other artistic languages and we will soon end up with new doublets again. But before I go on and turn articles into redirects, I'd appreciate some input first.
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in 1947 and he ultimately joined Interlingua. Internacional by Campos Lima was a similar Romance constructed language of around the same era. Interlingua Romanica was created by Josu Lavin in 2001 and Neolatino by Jordi Cassany-i-Bates has a strong online following for several years as well.
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Welcome! Well, the place certainly isn't as active as it has been in the past. I suppose that is because practically every possible article about the subject has already been written - conlangs that don't have an article at this point are in all likeliness not going to meet the standards of
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I've just created an Esperanto task force to tag, assess, create, and maintain articles on Esperanto in particular. I've already tagged and assessed every known article in Category:Esperanto and all of its subcategories, but the task force is still very basic. I'm trying to create the
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I would like to propose a new Toki Pona task force as coordination between several Wikimedia projects, such as Knowledge, Wiktionary, Wikisource and Wikidata, possibly in the future including others such as Wikibooks and Wikiquote. currently there are two articles for toki pona, namely
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I'd like to make a proposal for a new Interlingue task force; several members of the project have been very active recently in editing Interlingue related content, so I think a place to organise further development would be beneficial. Example projects would be getting articles such as
1861:"Two related varieties are normally considered varieties of the same language if speakers of each variety have inherent understanding of the other variety (that is, can understand based on knowledge of their own variety without needing to learn the other variety) at a functional level." 1607:
I'd also add that we're getting on thin ice with such categories. After all, many conlangers translate longer texts into their own language(s), and so do I. Still, I wouldn't qualify myself as a translator because of that, but only because I am a professional translator
1570:, and the distinction seems fair enough, since today only the latter are really active. Your point about the corresponding articles is relevant enough, however. Do you think something like "So-and-so is considered (by whom?) a Volapükologist because of his work at "? -- 1823:
I believe we need one or several good articles to reflect the 'movement' of international Romance languages on Knowledge. But firstly, we must remove the redirect of Romanica to Interlingua. Interlingua is not Romanica. See here some of the redirection discussions:
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Hi all, I've signed up literally just today to start contributing to some Knowledge pages. I speak Esperanto and Toki Pona pretty well and a bit of Klingon and Lojban, as well as dribs and drabs about other conlangs. I've started adding to the
1757:. (I did not create any zbl-4 because a visual symbolic language can hardly be said to be spoken at "a near native level".) Maybe some members of this project can populate the category; maybe some can even correct my Bliss grammar. 1710:
Thanks for the help. I have just a question or two. First off how should I find out if an article is of importance to this wikiproject or not & second how do I find some of the resources for the conlangs. Thanks for you help.
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mentioned that he made several translations into Neo and Volapük? If so, the information is stored already well enough, if you ask me - and that without creating categories which are very unlikely to ever grow beyond one or two
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where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention.
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is set up, is actually quite clear. But there are a lot of subpages that overlap, contain double and sometimes conflicting data... In short, I think it would be worth to reorganise this whole thing a little.
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In the case of Romanica and Interlingua, this seems obvious, since both languages use the same dictionary, and there is no rule that forbids a language to have multiple standards. The exception made by SIL
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portal, mind ;) ), we should at least be able to promise the person who writes it that it will "in all likeliness" survive an AfD. Looking at the list above, I'm far from sure we can do that in all cases.
2051:. however, with the broader scope into other projects, I hope that it will attract more people into editing content, as the language has a large free and open content movement inside since its inception. 1846: 1092: 1664:
article. Something like that. Sorry for tagging this project as inactive but it looked like it was & I knew if it wasn't people would change it back which they did. I'm glad this isn't inactive.
1232:{{Knowledge:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Constructed_language_articles_by_quality_statistics}} chart for Esperanto-specific articles, but I'm not sure how to do it. Help would be greatly appreciated. 1592:
of those cases of the Esperanto worldview being projected way outside its realm. Well, in the case of Esperanto, the difference kind of makes sense, but in the case of Volapük I very much doubt it.
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I don't think you can do so easily. The current chart (on the WP:CL main page) is auto-generated by bot. It understands 'quality' and 'importance' (the latter tag is messed up in
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At least, it's perfectly fine to categorise people as Volapükologists, but in my opinion the corresponding articles should somehow make it clear what makes them Volapükologists.
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all contain descriptions of what a "fictional language" is. I think that's a bad thing. Since we've decided a while ago to treat fictional languages as a subcategory of
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As for translators... To be quite honest, I don't see the need for any of those subcategories. To use Neo as an example, wouldn't it be sufficient if the article
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but something's wrong in it). It doesn't know any other tags TTBOMK. You could make a bot for the purpose, or make a new category.... dunno really. Try asking on
1120:, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding 504: 1766: 1343: 2073:
as I think they’d a) be interested if they haven’t seen it yet and b) think their input would be valuable as one of the most active tokiponists on the site.
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First of all, we should really have a discussion about the question whether we REALLY want those articles. If we put up a list of red links in the Portal (a
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contains a list of auxlangs and a list of artlangs (including several fictional languages). Lists of fictional languages can also be found in the
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Agreed - the point should be to link to general information about conlangs, not to send them to every other conlang page. It's not a webring :)
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Instead of writing articles for the red links quoted above, I there are a few other things we should IMO give priority. I've listed them below. —
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I see this project claims this page. But I have yet to see a source that supports that. Nonetheless, I need editors to review the situation at
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Romance IALs are nothing new (with all the grammatical complexity of a modern Romance language), there was an effort by André Schild to create
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of these pages. If you need to also couldn't you say a sentence or two saying why they are prominent enough to be put on the list.
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I think there’s definitely a reason to have one; would it be better to put it on MetaWiki if it’s so cross-project? Pinging @
1507:. To be very honest, this seems like over-categorising to me. Wouldn't the translators in question feel perfectly at home in 1411: 1060:
is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing
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have expressed interest in founding one, so if anyone would like to discuss, please do. If no one opposes, I'll set one up.
657: 283: 1825: 872:, remove all the list stuff from the articles and replace it with a link to the corresponding subsection in the List page. 861: 787: 1889: 407: 1548: 1504: 1473: 1204:. Please check for articles about language codes for other languages, copy their metainfo, and link both to an from. 1129: 1125: 950:. In other words, in my opinion they should both become redirects. That also solves the discussion about a merger of 845: 1226: 1121: 910: 1780:
I would also like to draw your attention to the presence of Knowledge articles on Romanica in different languages
817:, this is what I propose: that we move all there's to know about fictlangs to the "Genres of artlangs" section in 1950: 1143:
Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now moved the new draft in the old
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and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at
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doesn't seem to get us anywhere, I think we better discuss it here. My proposal is: move everything to the
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Hello! I think that there should be a page about Micronational Languages or a WikiProject about it.
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There was a bug in the way the template handled the project membership category, which I've fixed.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
2037: 1547:, and I was told that it was best to use a language-specific translator category. That's why the 1147:
pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you.
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That's at least my idea. But there is a possible alternative solution: that we move the entire
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contains many articles that are also part of one of its underlying categories (for example,
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This could also be done by editing the category page to have a text intro with a link to
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with Grammar, vocabulary, and so on, such that it is hopefully at least on par with the
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First of all, we have no less than three different descriptions of fictional languages:
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Okay, never mind, I've already done most of that. I've merged all lists found under
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If any of you guys wants to advertise your membership, I made a userbox for it.
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Several articles about constructed languages have been deleted for lack of
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mentioned him as the person who made certain translations and the article
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Creation of (an) article(s) on Romance IALs/constructed Romance languages
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Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of
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Is there any kind of precedent for making cross-project task forces?
2044: 860:, again heavily overlapping. At last, we have a list of engelangs at 1298:. I don't know how this would be fixed, so I'm alerting you folks. 1929: 1922: 528: 109: 1896: 930:
I've expanded the description of "fictional language" somewhat in
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if there is no opposition, I will set up a subpage for it here.
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I think it was the Esperantists who first distinguished between
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I say you've done a good thing - let's leave it like that.
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ISO, SIL, and BCP language codes for constructed languages
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Should certain articles be included in this WikiProject?
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to take care of... Well, many things in fact! Cheers, —
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User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States
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Knowledge:WikiProject Constructed languages/Templates
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Knowledge:WikiProject Constructed languages/Templates
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User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory
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Engineered language#Examples of engineered languages
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International auxiliary language#Auxiliary languages
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Knowledge:WikiProject Constructed languages/Userbox
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Knowledge:WikiProject Constructed languages/Userbox
825:becomes a redirect to that, and that we merge the 1688:) and therefore shouldn't be there. There is the 1188:table of language codes for constructed languages 959:list of constructed languages#fictional languages 389:Category:Unassessed constructed language articles 2112: 1105:User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory 846:Artistic language#Examples of artistic languages 866:Talk:List of fictional languages#Merge proposal 649:http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/universalglot/ 27:and anything related to its purposes and tasks. 1392:correct it if you want, I don't really care. 1294:is, for some reason, not the main article for 993:Thanks. So, what precisely do you mean? Turn 1557:Category:Translators_by_destination_language 921:itself into one renewed and fairly complete 2126:NA-importance constructed language articles 2121:Project-Class constructed language articles 260:Knowledge:WikiProject Constructed languages 218:Knowledge:WikiProject Constructed languages 1686:Category:International auxiliary languages 836:The lists themselves are a mess, too. The 221:Template:WikiProject Constructed languages 2131:WikiProject constructed language articles 1169:User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week 1093:User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory 138:does not require a rating on Knowledge's 1611:As far as adding people to the category 1182:Language codes for constructed languages 1830:Articles for deletion/Romanica language 1062:Knowledge:WikiProject Council/Directory 2113: 1826:Redirection of Romanica to Interlingua 1075:User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2 1733:I have taken the liberty of creating 1407: 942:have any info that can't be found on 932:artistic language#fictional languages 1482:and tagged those who were listed at 1357: 1111:User:Badbilltucker/Science directory 1069:User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 803:Artistic language#Genres of artlangs 625:This is more or less the same issue 241: 127: 125: 121: 2022:I totally support this initiative. 1286:Fictional Language article/category 1087:User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory 829:(without its description) with the 408:category:Constructed language stubs 144:It is of interest to the following 13: 1009:In mij legge alle fogultjes een ij 974:In mij legge alle fogultjes een ij 884:In mij legge alle fogultjes een ij 705:In mij legge alle fogultjes een ij 637:In mij legge alle fogultjes een ij 602:In mij legge alle fogultjes een ij 340:Recent changes in related articles 299: 14: 2147: 1729:User categories for Blissymbolics 1373:WikiProject Constructed languages 327:Constructed Languages WikiProject 201:WikiProject Constructed languages 198:This page is within the scope of 25:WikiProject Constructed languages 2136:Knowledge pages with to-do lists 1362: 1314: 911:international auxiliary language 249: 185: 175: 157: 126: 40:Click here to start a new topic. 1859:is how SIL defines a language: 1549:Category:Translators to Volapük 1505:Category:Translators to Volapük 629:addressed on Jon's talk page. — 1682:Category:Constructed languages 1539:Well, I had originally tagged 1503:However, I also noticed a new 295: 1: 1737:and the associated templates 1697: 1620: 1526: 1344:10:44, 13 December 2007 (UTC) 1308:09:26, 13 December 2007 (UTC) 1177:16:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC) 1006: 971: 948:list of constructed languages 924:list of constructed languages 919:list of constructed languages 881: 870:List of constructed languages 854:List of constructed languages 838:List of constructed languages 831:List of constructed languages 719:conlang-related matters like 702: 634: 599: 224:constructed language articles 212:and see a list of open tasks. 37:Put new text under old text. 1968:19:30, 2 February 2022 (UTC) 1960:A MicroWikipedian Wikipedian 1946:04:24, 20 January 2022 (UTC) 1495:19:12, 15 January 2012 (UTC) 1466:13:02, 4 December 2008 (UTC) 1448:00:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC) 1417:22:40, 21 January 2008 (UTC) 1296:Category:Fictional languages 1280:06:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC) 1221:01:14, 30 October 2007 (UTC) 1152:14:46, 24 October 2006 (UTC) 1138:22:47, 23 October 2006 (UTC) 954:with its corresponding list. 776:01:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC) 193:Constructed languages portal 7: 1890:Expanding the Kēlen article 1553:Category:Translators to Neo 1015:18:32, 5 January 2006 (UTC) 999:list of fictional languages 989:16:56, 5 January 2006 (UTC) 980:12:32, 5 January 2006 (UTC) 963:list of fictional languages 940:list of fictional languages 907:list of fictional languages 890:15:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC) 842:List of fictional languages 827:List of fictional languages 811:List of fictional languages 741:19:00, 9 January 2006 (UTC) 732:20:06, 7 January 2006 (UTC) 711:15:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC) 643:15:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC) 608:15:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC) 497:Mezhdunarodny Nauchny Yazyk 45:New to Knowledge? Welcome! 10: 2152: 1916:19:44, 10 April 2020 (UTC) 1767:00:07, 12 March 2014 (UTC) 1721:03:56, 19 March 2013 (UTC) 1706:04:05, 18 March 2013 (UTC) 1674:03:37, 18 March 2013 (UTC) 1654:12:58, 14 March 2013 (UTC) 1195:16:35, 22 April 2007 (UTC) 1047:18:35, 16 April 2006 (UTC) 864:. Since the discussion at 666:19:04, 16 March 2013 (UTC) 647:New web on Universalglot: 2106:16:18, 30 July 2024 (UTC) 2092:18:57, 18 July 2024 (UTC) 2064:10:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC) 1936:is would be appreciated. 1884:14:02, 21 July 2018 (UTC) 1847:14:12, 16 July 2018 (UTC) 1629:16:15, 11 July 2012 (UTC) 1579:15:24, 11 July 2012 (UTC) 1535:14:20, 11 July 2012 (UTC) 1474:Category: Volapükologists 1370:This user is a member of 489:Language Creation Society 170: 152: 75:Be welcoming to newcomers 2032:09:18, 10 May 2023 (UTC) 2017:09:05, 10 May 2023 (UTC) 1509:Category:Volapükologists 1480:Category:Volapükologists 1388:User Conlang-Wikiproject 1227:New Esperanto task force 1951:Micronational Languages 1249:- needs fixing; I made 1001:into redirects, then? — 397:Edit wars and deletions 1983:History of Interlingue 1973:Interlingue Task Force 788:Order instead of Chaos 304: 70:avoid personal attacks 934:. Right now, neither 848:, and in the article 754:Constructed languages 426:independent resources 361:Constructed languages 303: 215:Constructed languages 206:constructed languages 165:Constructed languages 2038:Toki Pona Task Force 1613:Category:Volapükists 1545:Category:Translators 1158:Knowledge Day Awards 794:Constructed language 792:The way the article 505:Modern Indo-European 315:Constructed language 1987:Interlingue grammar 1755:Template:User zbl-5 1751:Template:User zbl-3 1747:Template:User zbl-2 1743:Template:User zbl-1 1254:WP conlangs sandbox 1058:WikiProject Council 1031:I added a stub for 915:engineered language 693:No template at all. 1325:Fictional language 1292:Fictional language 995:fictional language 952:fictional language 936:fictional language 903:fictional language 850:Fictional language 823:Fictional language 815:artistic languages 807:Fictional language 305: 289:Updated 2020-09-10 140:content assessment 81:dispute resolution 42: 1739:Template:User zbl 1735:Category:User zbl 1559:. There are lots. 1380: 1379: 1052:Project Directory 1045: 944:artistic language 899:artistic language 819:Artistic language 725:Translation relay 656:comment added by 587: 586: 580: 383: 310: 309: 240: 239: 236: 235: 232: 231: 120: 119: 61:Assume good faith 38: 2143: 2090: 1842: 1703: 1626: 1532: 1445: 1440: 1435: 1414: 1409: 1404: 1396: 1366: 1358: 1341: 1336: 1331: 1322: 1318: 1317: 1277: 1272: 1267: 1258: 1252: 1248: 1242: 1218: 1213: 1208: 1118:User:B2T2/Portal 1039: 1012: 977: 887: 773: 768: 763: 758: 752: 708: 668: 640: 605: 573:Universalspråket 441:Ancient Language 435: 387:: Everything in 376: 375: 371:Infobox language 369: 365: 359: 355: 349: 296: 290: 253: 252: 242: 226: 225: 222: 219: 216: 195: 190: 189: 179: 172: 171: 161: 154: 153: 131: 130: 129: 122: 114: 16: 2151: 2150: 2146: 2145: 2144: 2142: 2141: 2140: 2111: 2110: 2079: 2040: 1975: 1953: 1926: 1892: 1881: 1843: 1777:same language. 1774: 1731: 1702: 1661: 1641: 1625: 1568:eo:Volapukologo 1555:now exist. 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