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entire article is not written in an encyclopedic manner, with unsupported OR masquearding as facts, saying that such a theory is more credible than others, for one example, without backing it up with anything. Also, while it's not a criteria for GAC, the fact that the nominator as well as someone else listed it as a GA class article in the
Scotland and Biography templates before it was even nominated for such really makes me angry. You can declare it A class if you wish, as it's not well defined, but the article is not GA class until it passes GAC. Please fix the issues, and resubmit to GAC when it is ready. --
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a descendant of Áedán." is author speaking of Echtra, which is later (in next sentence) introduced. But it seems, that this text narrates of Gein
Branduib maic Echach ocus Aedáin maic Gabráin, which is about kinship of Diarmait and Malcolm. Hasn't there been "Francis John Byrne suggested that the Gein was written by..."? --
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Concerning "confused - for instance it gives Gauran as the son and Aedan as the father", a header in
Adamnan's Life of St Colmcille is given as "De quodam plebeio, Goreo nomine, filio Aidani, sancti prophetia viri." Where peasant Guaire mac Aedain, strongest/bravest man in Corcu Reti, i.e. Dal Riada.
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of
Brycheiniog (not Alt Clut). There is also a Life of St. Laisren that implies the saint's mother was the daughter of Aedan and the granddaughter of a Brittonic king, which could mean (if it were accurate, which is debatable) that either Aedan's father or his wife's father was a Brittonic king. The
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give the epithet to his dad Gawran, but apparently some scholars think that was a misattribution of one of Aed's names. Could use some discussion, if anyone knowledgeable about this comes through (or is it just the case we have both of them listed in different sources with the title but have no idea
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In this sentence "Francis John Byrne suggested that the Echtra was written by a poet at the court of
Diarmait mac Maíl na mBó, an 11th-century descendant of Brandub, and was written to cement an alliance between Diarmait and the Scots king Máel Coluim mac Donnchada ("Malcolm III"), who claimed to be
1324:
This article has failed GAC. The referrences are all wrong- you can't just throw up some external links, then say in footnotes that the information is "somewhere" in that book. You need actual referrences, with the book title, author, and page number. I gave well-written a neutral because the
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and elsewhere. Another Triad records Áedán's host as one of the "Three
Faithful War-Bands of the Island of Britain", as they "went to the sea for their lord". This may point to an otherwise lost tradition concerning one of Áedán's sea expeditions, such as to the
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I hesitate to make substantial changes to this excellent article, but I think it could benefit from bit of additional material on Aedan's place in Welsh tradition. I suggest adding a passage along these lines to the "Sources" section:
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are intended; Aedan was a Gael from a Gaelic-speaking kingdom. Very few non-Britons (Gaels, Saxons, Romans, etc.) made their way into the Welsh literary tradition. I've tried to make the matter somewhat more clear in my recent
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I think we could easily add a paragraph on Aedan's appearances in Welsh tradition. It's noteworthy in that he was one of the small number of non-Britons who figured fairly prominently in the tradition. I'll see what I can
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That comment is based on
Bromwich. I'm not sure what Welsh poem the article refers to as saying Aedan's mother was the daughter of Dyfnwal Hen of Alt Clut. The only source I know of that says something similar is
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is simply an "inline" version of that template, when it isn't quite the same thing at all. I've can't see any problem spamming
Wikisource, but it shouldn't end up looking like the DNB was used as a reference.
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Is it clear that Aedan was a non-Briton? His mother came from the
British kingdom of Al Clut. His father seems to have been Irish, but the article does not specifically say so unless I have missed it.
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Many thanks for your comments. I surely do need to incorporate Fraser's work, which should hopefully fix the primary-sourciness issue as well. I hope to get this done at the weekend. Cheers,
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Having heard no issues for several days I went ahead and made these edits. I removed the material about Aedan's mother being a descendent of
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is the source intended in that passage, though it's not a poem. Either way the wording could be clearer. And I don't think there's any doubt that Gabran was a Gael.--
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1825:. This does give Dyfnwal Hen as Aedan's grandfather (or father), but on the paternal side. It's also not a poem. Might we double-check the sources in this regard?--
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and subsequent historians suggest Áedán was initially in a long-term alliance with Rhydderch and his predecessors that later went sour. Adomnán reports...
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in Wales. Though these pedigrees are inconsistent and likely dubious, they are notable in highlighting Áedán's close association with the Britons.
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What do modern historians make of the various bits and pieces related about him? Obviously you should be using Fraser some...
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My main concern is that so much is sourced to the original sources and not much appears to be sourced to modern historians.
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versions may both be spurious, but they're significant in that they both make claims of a British connection for Aedan.
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In paragraph in the "Reign" section on Aedan's conflict with Rhydderch, I'd like add a sentence based on Bromwich:
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For the lead, suggest saying "Medieval genealogies..." just to clarify that we're at least close to the time frame.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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https://web.archive.org/web/20081006233519/http://www.hastings.edu/academic/english/Kings/Compert_Mongain.html
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Looks good to me. I've never actually seen Bromwich's book, so it's good to know that you have access to it!
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latter, I think, is what's mentioned in the "Áedán's descendants" section. Bromwich points out that the
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Why isn't Gauran map Aedan considered to be his own person? --Muireagain. 14:36, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
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Finally, I'm concerned about the line "A Welsh poem states that Áedán's mother was a daughter of King
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I don't know if there's a consensus in the scholarship saying Aedan's mother was British. Perhaps the
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Well, the only downside is that the explanation on the template doc page seems to suggest that
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1759:. Additionally, several Welsh works claim a Brittonic pedigree for Áedán. The
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As per changes, it is now sailing through with all greens. GA class it is! --
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A number of Welsh traditions point to warfare between Áedán and King
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Lots of short paragraphs. Try to combine them with surrounding ones?
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http://www.hastings.edu/academic/english/Kings/Compert_Mongain.html
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Specify the Welsh poem that his mother was a daughter of Dumnagual?
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Suggest giving time frames when the various sources were composed?
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Now to fix the redirects. This wasn't an especially bad example (
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is given as his son, rather than father). The Cambro-Latin
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Suggest combining second and third paragraphs of Neighbors.
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As this is a featured article, is it appropriate to add
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The prose appears fine to me, but then I'm not a Tony.
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Given the importance of Aneurin's poem to the Welsh,
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of Alt Clut, though the genealogy is much confused (
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But there's a conspicuous lack of dwarves or elves.
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2103:
2077:this simple FaQ
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2003:have permission
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1967:this simple FaQ
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19:This is the
1787:Brycheiniog
1767:Dyfnwal Hen
1757:Isle of Man
1533:I know the
1392:Suggestions
857:Middle Ages
804:Middle Ages
285:Peer review
148:free images
31:not a forum
2173:Categories
2160:Report bug
2050:Report bug
1920:Cúchullain
1827:Cúchullain
1715:Brutannica
1667:Cúchullain
1642:Cúchullain
1579:Cúchullain
205:identified
2143:this tool
2136:this tool
2033:this tool
2026:this tool
1242:Everyking
1232:Everyking
540:Biography
453:Biography
389:Biography
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2149:Cheers.—
2039:Cheers.—
1819:Alt Clut
1803:Alt Clut
1748:Alt Clut
1665:edits.--
1564:Llywelyn
1541:Llywelyn
1486:DNB Cite
1428:Ealdgyth
1411:Ioan..."
1344:Onwards?
1317:Images:
1305:Stable:
1071:Scotland
1058:Scotland
1014:Scotland
962:Politics
953:politics
909:Politics
552:Medieval
548:European
394:Military
360:FA-class
309:Promoted
290:Reviewed
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2073:my edit
1963:my edit
1783:Brychan
1740:Bradawc
1662:Britons
1630:De Situ
1621:Brychan
1553:Gododin
1513:Sternax
1463:to it?
1409:certain
1293:Broad:
1283:Neutral
1203:on the
1098:on the
989:on the
884:on the
779:on the
544:British
249:Process
154:WP refs
142:scholar
1941:(Talk)
1771:Gauran
1638:Bonedd
1626:Bonedd
1506:Echtra
1497:(Talk)
1446:(Talk)
1378:(Talk)
1262:(Talk)
366:scale.
271:Listed
252:Result
126:Google
1577:do.--
1350:GeeJo
1336:PresN
1327:PresN
1255:WP:OR
198:is a
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1777:and
1719:talk
1704:talk
1628:and
1600:talk
1517:talk
1432:Talk
1319:Pass
1313:Fail
1307:Pass
1301:Pass
1295:Pass
1289:Pass
1222:Name
1060:and
442:and
328:Kept
246:Date
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
2117:RfC
2087:to
2007:RfC
1977:to
1817:of
1801:of
1785:of
1700:Sca
1471:naD
1467:Jan
1355:(c)
1273:GAC
1253:is
1195:Low
1090:Low
981:Low
876:Mid
771:Top
176:TWL
2175::
2130:.
2125:}}
2121:{{
2020:.
2015:}}
2011:{{
1858:^
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1566:II
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1483:{{
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58:.
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