Talk:Freeway - Knowledge

5141:(ec) I don't think we need a vocabulary section, if the article is written properly. I should hope that readers are generally intelligent enough to infer word meanings from context, especially when a term is used side-by-side with its counterpart from other variations of English. As for which variation to use, Vegaswikian, what was in use before is persuasive, but we're creating something new here, and consensus is free to change that going forward. I suggested Oxford British English as a compromise. Most of the world does not use American spellings, and this is to be an article of global scope. It would be arrogant to assert that American English should trump other variations on what is essentially going to be a totally new article at a new article title. I'm an American living in Michigan, and I'm suggesting that we use Oxford British English because 1) it is similar to British or Commonwealth English which are global in scope, but 2) it does use some spelling conventions in common with American English. I want to decide this in advance so when the new article is created, there are no ENGVAR wars. Basically, policy cedes the choice to consensus for the article, and we're free to make our choice now. As to the title, I prefer "controlled-access highway" over both "freeway" and "motorway" (preserving those as redirects) for the same reasons that the article is at "fixed-wing aircraft" with redirects from "airplane" and "aeroplane". We should use a term that's neutral as the title, and redirect the variation-specific titles to it. 3104:

under the auspices of a democratically elected government; a stable and envious one moreso (such as a Westminster-style government). These political procedures conquer roads classification in social and political legitimacy all throughout the world. Oftentimes there are many different roads that meet the classification of "freeway", however the most common occurence is that of a limited access road with no adjoining private properties that consists of grade-separated intersections with all other roads. However, often enough this is not the case: In the state of Victoria, Australia -there is a section of the Mornington Penninsula Freeway that is a two-lane, two-way road that spans two round-a-bouts. There are freeways in the United States that have traffic lights and private properties abutting them too. It remains that the roads authorities are those that classify the status of a road; as they are the officials and are emboldened by legal resolve. For a mere spectator that is otherwise an insignificant part of the government body to dictate the terms of this legal classification; it is at worst opinionated drivel and at best as an agent provocatuer.

4029:

any experience of US politicians - I leave you to comment on that). The point that I am making is that the formal definition of a UK motorway is buried deep inside mountains of legislation (or on the other hand a road is a motorway if the government says that it is a motorway - UK law does describe a motorway as a "special road"). On example is the provison of a hard shoulder. The OECD definition makes no provision for a hard shoulder - UK motorways normally have one, but in recent years certain motorways have been widened to incorporate the hard shoulder in one form or another. On the other hand the OECD definition is clear, concise and more importantly, country-neutral. It suffices for all the countries where I have driven on motorways/ freeways/ autobahnen/ autosnelwegen/ autopiste/ autoroutes etc/uzw/ezv - UK, South Africa, Germany, France, Spain, Sweden, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland.

5373:

difference. Second problem: Western states do not always prohibit bicycles from their freeways. Many of the Interstates were built on top of existing roads, completely replacing them, without an alternative for non-motorized traffic. Eastern states usually built the new freeway somewhat adjacent to the old road, meaning non-motorized traffic retained an alternative route. So even in discussing what classes of traffic are generally prohibited from these types of roadways, we have exceptions to mention. That doesn't negate the fact that, in general, a freeway/motorway/autoroute/etc are the same concept of a road. That the general concept has exceptions (names that don't have a 1:1 match, exceptions in certain cases for otherwise banned traffic) only needs to be discussed somewhere in the article, even if it's just one sentence.

3025:

distributions and traffic handedness, but to say that this embodies conceptual and terminological distinctions based on the 'culture of traffic handedness' is a bit of a stretch, and not only because traffic handedness is generally a reflection of past culture and politics but because it is such a stretch to even presume that the two traffic handedness groups form discrete cultural communities. It would be foolish not to assume that there is interplay between driving and culture, but it would also be foolish to take this assumption so far that one posits that wherever there exists even a minor terminological or technological difference there is a deeper cultural difference, without further exposition. Cultural sensitivity does not have to be upheld by standing by

2971:

differential term for a type of road, a person is usually saying more about who they are and where they come from than the local variations that exist in road infrastructure. We don't have different articles for different terms for roads in US dialect regions though, such compartmentalization has the potential to favor certain POVs and make for messy epistemology. If these articles were written and developed from purely sociological and anthropological perspectives then, yes, it would make a bit more sense to compartmentalize information under culturally authentic titles (if they exist), but they are not, though road articles throughout the encyclopedia in general do need more of these perspectives.

660:

consistent; if you can develop an articulate argument that Freeway should be the blanket term used on Knowledge for all such roads, I will support you on it. But I have to warn you that you will encounter extreme resistance from Zoney and all other UK-based editors (as well as all French and German editors if you start advocating the merger of autoroute and autobahn into this article). I have to also warn you that I will oppose any merger of Freeway with Expressway (as some non-legal trained editors have unsuccessfully proposed in the past) because the two terms are distinctly different in U.S. federal law (as I have noted in the article's current version) and in six U.S. states. --

2827:

because they carry more traffic, because space is less limited, perhaps because funds are less tight etc, but there is undoubtedly a large overlap. As for concrete versus steel crash barriers all new motorways in the UK have been built with concrete barriers. Does this mean that a road in the UK with concrete crash barrier, long overpasses etc is objectively a freeway while a lesser US freeway is objectively a motorway? Logically it doesn't make sense and shows why the two things are fundamentally the same and should be merged. The only real difficulty is deciding on a name in my opinion. Let the country-specific stuff go on individual pages such as "UK motorway network" etc.

1403:? In fact, is there something about German Autobahns that allows them to be talked about here that Irish motorways don't have? If we consider all the local words that exist around the world in non-English-speaking countries, are we going to decide to have 50 pages, but talk about Portuguese and Brazilian ones together because they have the same name, even if the roads turn out to be very different? I am proposing a merger but also a split, so in the end it will be quite a manageable length. The country-specific information would need to be cut down considerably (summary and illustrative examples) on the international page, and most of it sent to pages like 4975:, and establish that up front on the new talk page. Let's avoid squabbles now. Having said that, if someone makes a contribution to the article with American spellings, just silently switch it later, without undue comment, as part of any copyediting done to the article. If you call attention to switching the spellings of words, you could make the situation worse. Of course if reverted back, a nice polite note that we're using Oxford English should suffice, even if the change is in a mention of the US. (I picked Oxford because it uses the -ize spellings common in the US but is otherwise "British" or "Commonwealth" in nature, so a bit of a compromise.) 779:

that plague either Australia or the Indian Subcontinent) when this is totally irrelevant: they are all names of extreme low pressure tropical storms. We could also explore the legal definitions that discriminate "hill" from "mountain" depending which country one is in. And then if you legally declare something as a hill, I'll try to add enough dirt to legally make it a mountain. We could simply say that there is a general class of free-flowing high speed roads, accessible by entry and exit ramps and that such roads has the following counterpart names . . . . An article on freeways shouldn't be as divergent as an article on

3643:. There is no reason we can't have one article describing freeways and motorways (aka high speed, grade seperated highways with no impedement to travelling), one describing expressways (a divided road with some control of access), and one describing a divided roadway (aka a dual carriageway). These articles are almost entirely a synthesis of original research by road geeks. Almost none of the terms are linked to legal documents, and the whole mess is a horrible trashing of the policies of wikipedia. If these moves are not performed here and now, then I will be performing massive overhauls of the articles in question per 1807:

schemes; I'm simply proposing that we standardize on one. Furthermore, large parts of the developing world are either so impoverished or so sparsely inhabited that they will definitely not have any freeways for the next 10 to 20 years, and a few countries will certainly never have freeways because they don't make economic sense (I'm thinking of some of the small island countries in Polynesia). Plus many countries that have freeway-like roads still have relatively few English-speaking Knowledge editors who are also interested in transportation, so we won't have to worry about them for a while.

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wings). The problem with freeways/expressways/motorways/autobahns/autoroutes etc. is that although they are all a type of road, there is no universally accepted adjective that can be coupled with "road" like "fixed-wing" can be coupled with "aircraft." Neither "high-speed" nor "restricted access" standing alone are sufficient. "High-speed restricted access road" is ambiguous, as are "high-speed limited access road" and "high-speed controlled access road," and all three run into the requirement that Knowledge article titles should be in common use. See official policy

273: 255: 5358:", then yes, for purposes of this article it is a freeway/motorway irrespsective of its name. If however any type of traffic including bicycles are permitted to use it, it is not, for purposes of this article, a motorway/freeway. However, unless it has any specific features worth highlighting, it should not get a mention. We must remember that the article will be covering roads in over 100 jurisdictions (50 US states, 27 EU member states before we start counting the individual jurisdictions in Canada, Australia, Japan, India, China, South Africa etc). 2908:

defining difference, nor is it one of the more qualitative differences as it is simply a binary distinction. I think its pretty well established there are substantial enough differences in official use of these terms to the point that having separate articles is appropriate, even though colloquially and technically they are the same concept. If that premise can be accepted then I believe we'll be closer to figuring this out. A logical solution to this debate would accommodate the need to use at least one of these terms to host an article about a

2966:

semantics of the word itself is lost in most contexts when you substitute one for the other and the audience is competent. Perhaps it might feel odd to say one instead of the other as it might not serve well to mark the user's identity as a speaker of a certain dialect, but that doesn't really change the meaning of the word as it is intended. What's more is that 'freeway' is not necessarily (and perhaps hardly even) the most common word for this type of road in the states, in fact the different terms used there when viewed as

4967:

going to probably need to mention "expressway" in some capacity later on in the article. The concept is related, but not the same. Maybe a discussion in the specifications or something just to alert readers to the difference. We probably should mention in the US/North American section that some states officially use "expressway" in the names of freeways (yes, I'm talking about you, Illinois) even though they are freeways. that should satisfy Vegaswikian's objection. I would not merge

2076:, there are enough Knowledge editors who are lawyers (and are reasonably knowledgeable about the profession and are also reasonably intelligent people as well) that I've been able to develop consensus in favor of my version. There are several other people who are helping me kill off edits that are clearly linkspam, vandalism, unsourced crazy ranting, or are just far too specific to any one country (in an article that by necessity clearly needs to take a broad worldwide view). -- 283: 1222:

articles seem to all have an initial segment about major highways in general, and then delve into country-specific information. I think there should be a single article covering this type of road in general, in which country-specific information is brief and serves to illustrate the general notion, and country-specific articles elsewhere. There would likely be disagreement about which word to use for the title and in the text, since there seems to be no solution here like

224: 367: 5727:

that's already linked in the body of the article should not be tacked on a second time in the See also list, and many of those links might be incorporated in the new writing, and some related articles from that list might even be incorporated into the new article and redirected here in some fashion. As an example, if a name/term for a freeway/motorway is specific to one country, we might link like: "In Croatia, a highway of this type is called a

5913:

just a loose term. Just because the US doesn't use motorway and the roadsign for it, doesn't mean that the article should be named freeway right, that's a little bit of US arrogance. Their's a clear definition and road sign for a moterway and another for an expressway, used all over europe and the world, and I think since those are clear they should be the main articles. The fact that the US doesn't use them is no argument if you ask me.

987:

that represents only one part of the United States when we are trying to take a worldwide view on Knowledge. The article, as I've drafted it, already cites and discusses the MUTCD federal definition, which is much broader and more widely accepted. We should move from the general (federal) to the specific (state), not start with a very state-specific quote and then waffle back and forth between the specific and the general. --

2662:

controlled access network, so there is no need to indicate controlled access sections in their numbering. Rather, they can be upgraded piecemeal and then if funding eventually comes together, the last few gaps can be closed and the number for the entire route can be changed. This is what Nevada is doing, for example, with U.S. 395 between Reno and Carson City, which will probably become Interstate 580 when completed in 2016.

5033:

that in somewhere. I'd insert the word/link for "slip road" with ramp, because that's similar to the variation between median and central reservation. (i.e. calling it a slip road only will confuse Americans, but calling it a ramp will confuse Britons). One last comment, but can someone check to see if any variation of English spells "acceleration" with two Ls and fix the spelling accordingly when this lead is implemented?

4944:. The definition looks good. There are just a couple of points that I'd like to clarify. 1) Can we replace "vehicular traffic" with something like "motor vehicles"; to make it clear that human and animal powered vehicles are excluded (if indeed they are other than in the UK)? 2) Can we find another word instead of "ramp" which is more commonly used to mean a transverse ridge, bump or similar obstacle in the UK, where 3670:

is a US-biased article and Motorway is a UK-biased article. Any article that combiens the two into one should look at commonality between the two and also at the rules pertaining to French autoroutes, German Autobahns and Italian Autopiste. One shoudl also note that in South Adfrica the term "Freeway" is translated into Afrikaans as "Snelweg" ("Snel" = "fast" or "express" and "weg" = "way", "road" or "thoroughfare").

357: 339: 2536:(Italian) translate to “motorway” rather than “freeway”. This suggests to me that “Freeway” is an American term and “Motorway” is a British term for the same thing. As I said earlier, if the Freeway article is about US freeways, then use US definitions, but if it is about world-wide freeways, then use a world-wide definition and the only word-wide definition that I know of is the OECD definition. 1584:

that because it would, for example, be even less intelligible to Americans and Canadians than "motorway" and less intelligible to Britons than "freeway" or "expressway". But I think the most important thing is an appropriate division of the material between articles rather than what words are used, so any compromise on the wording would be a good thing if that allowed things to move forward.

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all dual-carriageways are motorway, not all motorway has hard-shoulders, non-motorway may have hard-shoulders, not all motoray junctions are grade-separated (some even have traffic-light control) and only certain types of vehicles (all motorised) and drivers are permitted to use motorways - all other types are excluded (unlike most other roads which are public rights of way). --

1269:"Freeways", perhaps there should be "Freeways in country X" for each one, and this article would have summary sections for each? The introduction would refer to the countries using roads called freeways and mention some general characteristics (this would be more possible as you have less "cases" as you are only dealing with the group of countries using "freeways"). 5305:) are included, along with Japanese, Chinese and Indian expressways. (I can't vouch for the Asian countries, I can vouch for South Africa and the Netherlands). BTW, there should not be any country-specific section, though of course different countries will be mentioned to highlight different concepts and the impact of different underlying legal regimes. 3029:'cultural' differences, the best way cultural sensitivity can be brought to this topic from a global perspective is not to simply compartmentalize (which does away with the global perspective) or to impose definitions (culturally insensitive), but to explain it all as comprehensively as possible in one place, it remains to be seen where that will be. 2517:? AS an experiment I did a Google search on “N3 freeway Pietermaritzburg”, “N3 motorway Pietermaritzburg” and “N3 snelweg Pietermaritzburg”. (“Snelweg” is an Afrikaans word which literally translates as “Expressway”). All three searches gave a significant number of hits, so is the N3 a motorway, a freeway or an expressway in the vicinity of 1181:

included information like the countries where those types of roads are found and other useful comparison data. Since the table would retain the link to the main article, only data worth comparing against other similar roads would need to be included. If you want to try a version of the table on one of these, give it a try.

1825:. "Autoroute" is acceptable in English because it is used by English-speakers in Quebec as a synonym for "expressway" (anywhere) (but since they're only 0.2% of the world's English-speaking population and they also say "expressway", there would probably be about a 0.1% chance that a particular article would be called that.) 516:

some of the rationale has to do with nomenclature. I'm too lazy to pull out WP standards at the moment (maybe later) but I'm pretty sure that parlay (name an international concept by the US name, keep international content in the article, then complain about its prominence w/r/t US content) is inherently unWikipedian. -

2337:. May I cite South Africa. A search on Google using the filter ".gov.za" revealed the use of both terms, with the N3 usually being referred to as a "motorway". There are historic reasons for this that I can go into, but won't. Moreover, the Afrikaans word word (which has equal standing in South African law) is 783:. A Chinese dumpling, a British dumpling, and a nice cinnamon-carmel apple dumpling are very different compared to a freeway and an expressway. Oh, yes, didn't the Supreme Court ruled on a case on what is legally a fruit and what is legally a vegitable when such legalities defy scientific common sense? 2849:

anthropological terms, they're culturally embedded terms that cannot be truly understood apart from their cultural milieu. It's like how German words like "geist" and "Gesellschaft" have entire books in English devoted to them because they are so embedded in German culture, history, and philosophy. --

5975:

The term "Motorway" is akin to "Interstate"; they are used to denote roads which form part of the highest level of service roadways. There are some exceptions of both that are not freeways (or even divided). A freeway or controlled-access highway is any public road with no private access (driveways),

5535:

you will find a road that has eleven sections - six sections of non-motorway separated by five sections of motorways. Apart from the first and last sections on non-motorway, all the non-motorway section meet the European motorway standard apart from restrictions on certain type of traffic. This road

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and rapidly assembled a sprawling network of Autobahns in anticipation of their use in the war effort. Italy followed shortly thereafter, opening its first Autopista in 1925. In North America, a similar concept, known as a parkway, was developed on Long Island. These parkways did not perform the same

4472:

Do you oppose the OECD definition because it is (in your view at any rate) EU-centric or because it is not for for purpose? If it is the former, I would draw to attention that the current secretary-general is Mexican and his predecessor was Canadian, also that the US and Canada have been members for

4028:

I would be surprised if the the UK source provided a comprehensive definition of a motorway (as opposed what to expect to find on a motorway). British politicians are devious beasts and often frame the law in such a way that it needs a skilled lawyer to understand what it really means. (I don't have

3772:

That would be perfect. Would there be any way for you or a member of UKRD to obtain one of their recent-ish manuals? These should define all the names, specifications, purposes, and criteria for the various types of roadway in Britain so that we can internationalize things and not have 20 articles on

3735:

The ITE is a US-centred organisation. It has ten districts - eight in the US, one in Canada and one to service the rest of the world. Europe is a single chapter in the International district. On a slightly different topic, the only internationally accepted definition of a motorway/freeway etc that

3669:

Floydian, in proposing to use the Traffic Engineers Handbook, by the Institute of Traffic Engineers as the basis for any overhaul of the articles, is implicitly propsing to give the artuicles a decidedly US bias. If one reads the articles Freeway and Motorway, the cannot help but notice that Freeway

1810:

The only thing that's messy about my idea is that we have odd situations where it's not clear whether to use the native word or the English equivalent. For example, most English speakers understand autobahn and a fairly large minority understand autoroute, but terms like autocesta or autopista would

1331:

is particularly messy since the U.S. MUTCD and seven states (including my own) define expressways as an intermediate category between arterial roads and freeways, and several states prefer expressway altogether instead of freeway. The mess in British English with classification v. type of road means

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position as long as it is internally coherent and consistent, but if you want to push that position, you would probably have to draft a guideline, try to enforce it against the road articles (that is, by posting merge tags on freeway, expressway, motorway, autoroute, autobahn, etc.) and then push the

5726:

Many of those links in that list though direct to this article's current subsections. Some aren't all that specifically applicable to freeways as a concept. I think we can add any links though as we see fit after the new article's groundwork is laid and the article is fleshed out. Remember, anything

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and not have the term included in the definition. So in order to be inclusive it should be included by simply adding "sometimes expressway". A futher explanation about the use of word can be addressed later in the article. I'd also drop the term tollway, because to me that is type of freeway and not

4966:

with some comments. I'd drop the workd "turnpike" from the list. While most current usages of the word in the US are for tolled freeways, there are turnpikes that date back to Revolutionary and early American times that are decidedly not freeways, and they still carry the name. Second comment, we're

4782:

I like Floyian's paragraph - I suggest that it be used (give or take a few words) as the lede to the article. I also agree with the use of the word "highway" as being geo-neutral and I like the fact that the various alternatives are arranged in alphabetic order (again geo-neutral). I woudl include

3344:

In the US at least, one difference between freeway and expressway is the presence of at grade intersections. I think that there are also differences by state. So we should be careful about what moves are proposed. I'd also suggest a reading of the previous discussions on this topic that used long

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will take a little rubber off the tires; the metal barriers commonly seen on motorways will eat a BIG chunk out of the sheet metal. The signage is also less user-friendly on motorways; the U.S. and Canada went to very large overhead signs on freeways and expressways because of the realization that

2594:

I'll point out that if there is consensus to merge the material and have sections for the different named roads, then Freeway would be the base article since it was started over two years before Motorway. Motorway began as a redirect to freeway 4 months after the article was created. I'll also add

2449:

This article is about a type of road built for high speeds with no grade crossings. I assume motorways are like that. If the title is the problem, we can think of how best to address that but describing various implementations of high speed roads with no cross traffic is entirely appropriate for the

2313:

question of confusing readers - the article currently covers three countries, the United States, Canada and South Africa. Having spent almost half my life in South Africa, I can assure everybody that no South African reader would be confused by equating the two words. I cannot however speak for US

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definition mess is discussed in both articles because of the massive internal confusion on this issue within the United States (which is a common problem in many areas of American law because of the unique dual-sovereign nature of American federalism). In contrast, there are no countries where both

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issue ironed out by tracking down and inserting a lot of citations, we had a lot of problems with numerous ignoramuses on the East Coast who were unaware that federal law and some state laws define "expressway" as a divided highway with partial access control, which means expressways can and do have

1781:

I like the idea, but it won't work once Knowledge is "complete" (whatever that means), because there are 200 countries in the world. Maybe it would be best to do it by continent (or other regions), so that the number of countries will be permanently manageable. Also, there is no guarantee that there

1583:

All right. I overreacted. I don't think there's any problem as long as it is made clear that the abbreviation is being introduced by the article (if that is the case). I would be open to using "CADH" as a compromise if that turns out to be necessary. I think it would be a bit sad that we had come to

1288:

Yes, there is no doubt that there should be individual country pages containing most of the country-specific information. I think it's possible for experts to talk about expressways in general (e.g. history, effect on traffic, effect on neighbourhoods, etc.) in a way that is general. Also, including

986:

I just deleted the above text from the lead paragraphs. This is totally inappropriate. First of all, Streets & Highways Code section 257 (which is already cited in the right place in the article) is the more appropriate code section. Second, we should not be leading the article with a section

806:

was blocked for his vandalism and repeated insertion of original research) but arbitration and indeed the whole dispute resolution process is incredibly time-consuming. Also, it's possible that ArbCom might agree with the European position that to merge motorway with freeway (even if freeway is the

5886:

You're several months late here, and I doubt you'll get that discussion rolling again. It'd be relatively easy to explain that in the phillipeans, the term expressway is synonymous with freeway. Each country will be able to have its own section. The point isn't to remove information specific to any

5060:

May I suggest that there be a UK/US vocabulary section near the start of the article and before works starts, it is decided by lottery whether to use UK or US English as the default. I could easily define a lottery - it will need two participants and a judge. (I have enough mathermatical background

5032:

Following up to de Facto's comments that ECed mine, I'm not sure about "vehicular traffic" vs. "motor vehicles". In most states in the US, motorcycles under 150cc engine size are banned from freeways, as are farming implements (tractors, combines, etc) so we have to figure out a neutral way to work

3103:

When is the road classification "freeway" no longer a "freeway"? Well, it either is or it isn't. For instance, if the democratic and statutory authority for road classification declares a road a freeway, then that road becomes a freeway. This is especially credible when the roads authority operates

2848:

I finally realized the most obvious reason why conflating the two concepts strikes me as inherently idiotic. Nearly every road I have seen that is labeled a freeway or expressway has traffic driving on the right. And EVERY motorway I have ever seen has the traffic on the left. In sociological or

2687:

Please provide reputable references to your statements, move of which look like unsubstantiated over-generalisations to me. Also, statements such as " ... like the UK, have insane road numbers like A1(M). The smarter way, as the U.S. ..." is a point of view and has no place an encyclopedia. As a

1657:

Don't some of those terms apply in some countries to roads that aren't controlled access? And not necessarily divided highways? The only common factor seems to be that they are a type or class of road usually used for high volumes of traffic. How to have an article solely on that premise? I suggest

5912:

It still isn't clear wich name should be used. It now says merging motorway into freeway? Wouldn't it be better to merge freeway into motorway instead of naming the article freeway. A motorway has a trafficsign and a clear defenition used all over europe and the rest of the world, while freeway is

4455:

I am ambivalent about a merger but as I have previously noted, I oppose the inclusion of the OECD definition. For one thing, the OECD does not specialize in transportation---it's about economics. For another, the OECD is primarily European Union-centric, as Canada and the U.S. did not join until

4327:

if we are talking about a single article to cover all fast motor-vehicle-only roads. However care will be needed in the choice of concepts covered and terminology used if the article is to be inclusive of national variations. In the UK: not all motorway is dual-carriageway (divided highway), not

4196:

as far as the title. As for "motorways", at least as the UK goes, is like the US Interstates. An Interstate here is always a freeway* but a freeway is not always an Interstate. In other countries like Australia or New Zealand that use the term, it's pretty much a generic term akin to freeway here.

3098:

Feel free to goad your perusal click-clicks into this eye candy for the brave. I'm a lawyer, ho-hum. Tee hee hee, I like ancient Rome but cannot understand what an alphabetical prefix is on an English Motorway. oops! This one's dedicated to the Hume Freeway and it's prestige as the supreme freeway

2575:

I am not suggesting that we use the South African definition – I was demonstrating by example that the assertion “Motorways and Freeways are Different” is not always true. I assert that there is such a large variation in the legal definitions of both freeways and motorways and that the overlap in

2539:

In the previous statement it was noted that the OECD definition of “Motorway” defined roads of such a high quality that it could only apply to Interstate Highways. Never having been to the US, I am unable to comment, but if you want to compare different types of freeway, then the OECD definition

2494:

as its American counterpart. That the terms are used interchangeably in many English speaking parts of the world attests to their similarity, but shouldn't be used as a reason to discount long-established legal and technical definitions used in the US. On that note, it really doesn't make sense to

1820:

Okay, then we can have a navigation box for all countries that have articles. But to save space in the box, it's probably best to omit the particular word used. In article titles, for non-English-speaking countries, the choice of the foreign term or an English one would be based on recognizability

1298:

to determine which word to use. The current setup also excludes countries that don't have an official English word (so they won't be covered in any "overview" page) and I think the argument about there being fewer countries per page is a bit artificial, because there is nothing really relating the

1149:

I do agree that a general piece about "Freeway-like" roads makes sense, and I would suggest that somewhere on Knowledge there should be content with a summary paragraph each about Freeways (in US, etc.), Motorways, Autobahns, etc and then a comparison section. Considering you would have difficulty

903:

I thus removed the "some find driving an uncongested freeway fun" concept from the freeway article. One ordinarily uses a freeway to get from one place to another quickly, and the highway is rarely a destination in itself. Shunpiking simply to avoid a monotonous stetch of bland expressway happens.

801:

Are you really ready to do that? That would require hundreds of hours of work. Because I'm neutral, I would insert the occasional brief "I concur" comment but it's really up to you to draft the hundreds of thousands of words necessary to push that position and to rebut all counterarguments. I've

651:

is why Vegaswikian and I have moved towards a consensus position of keeping separate articles for all similar types of high speed restricted access roads and then carefully trimming down each one to eliminate redundant material already available in the other articles in the group. Knowledge users

515:

You want to have your cake and eat it too, by having an article on international limited-access highways remain under this name and retain international content but then privileging the United States based on the name of the article. Indeed, the article is outrageously US-centric, and apparently

4511:

that may only specified classes of vehicle. This is of course binding on road users. In addition, there are sets of regulations that define how a motorway should be built, but not what a motorway is. For legal purposes each motorway requires specific parliamentary approval. This does not really

3853:

Nearest result: University College in Dublin, or Auckland University, New Zealand. A hop, skip and jump! If I post the exact text here for scrutiny, could we come to an agreement on a worldwide definition for the interim? Then there can be by-country headers that go in-depth on the standards, the

1806:

be a work-in-progress. The point is to come up with something that will work for at least the next 10 years until the rest of the world gets online. Right now the English Knowledge road articles simply don't fit together very well because we have fragments of four or five different organization

1326:

I agree with Zoney that a lot of the non-freeway stuff needs to be purged from the article and I disagree with Joeldl's position. The problem is that there are so many terms in use in English, and with such subtle distinctions between them, that it is nearly impossible to create a single article

1221:

The current division between motorway/freeway/expressway is silly. There is no more of a connection between a freeway in Australia and a freeway in the U.S. than there is between a freeway in the U.S. and an expressway in Canada. In fact, the last two are likely to be more similar. These multiple

778:

Sometimes too much legal technicalities will result in unnecessary headaches. One could try to be nit picky about the definitions of hurricane (tropical storms that plague North America including Hawaii), typhoons (tropical storms that plague Asia-Pacific), and tropical cyclones (tropical storms

690:

long Talk pages, e.g. is there a summary somewhere? I may just have to come to terms with the fact that Knowledge is in some ways a hobby only for those with hours of free time, and that participants therefore tend to self-select on that basis. That's not a complaint toward you (after all, it

499:

way to approach it, in that it's totally unlike how Knowledge handles any other varying names for a concept, but hey -- it looks to me that a bunch of US-based road enthuisasts have been successful in promoting this aberrant view to the point where it is pretty much consensus. I might change my

4235:

is the historic origin - freeways were free of tolls, the first motorways (or rather autostrade) were tolled while the autobahn was built with a specific military purpose in mind. Today they are indistinguishable. I have heard that when the M1 was first built, it was designed so that in times of

2965:

Perhaps in poetry the translation of these terms will suffer, if they carry socioculturally loaded meanings with the authors, but I don't buy your (Coolcaesar's) reasoning that they are culturally embedded in countries that drive on the L or the R. Poetry aside, very little if anything about the

2907:

I agree with the IP above's comment and I think the idea that most of the differences one can muster about freeways and motorways actually relates to the differences about roads generally in different jurisdictions encompasses driving on the left or the right. The R/L question is obviously not a

2826:

Coolcaesar, your alleged differences in characteristics between a motorway and a freeway simply tell us about differences between roads in the UK and USA, not that there is a difference between the two terms. For example roads in the USA may be built to a higher standard than in the UK generally

2489:

regardless of handedness. It shouldn't need to be said that every road is different in some way. Functionally and legally however, there are many national and even more sub-national differences and variations. 'Freeway' is a technical and legal term, as is 'motorway', but 'motorway' has a second

1180:

was rewritten to kind of serve that purpose, it sounds reasonable. As I recall, the original rewrite to the current form was mostly a gutting to remove a lot of the editorial issues with the previous versions of the article. As you say, the current simple lists could be expanded to tables that

5956:

has two precise meanings as currently delineated and cited in the article as it stands, if you had read it carefully. Finally, the term freeway is in active use by well over 100 million people in the western United States, as well as parts of Australia and other countries allied with the U.S.

5372:

Then we have an issue to discuss. Illinois assigns names to its freeways using "Expressway", but they are freeways in every sense of the word. New York and other East Coast states do the same, calling what are technically freeways as expressways, to the consternation of those of us who know the

4786:

Both definitions could be included in the introductory section, followed by a discussion to show that they are essentially the same. That would set the scene for the rest of the article. Since it is unlikely that a formal British definition of a "motorway" will be found, I am happy for the OECD

1268:

Is it really possible to have a general section rather than summaries of the main country-specific features? Surely anything that attempts to talk about general features will be a mess of "except for" and "termed X in country Y", and so on. I understand your point about different countries with

5083:

which were the previous names used for this article. The freeway article dates back to January 6, 2002 in using American English (noting at that time that the British equivalent is motorway). Motorway did not appear as anything other then a redirect until March 10, 2004. So let's not introduce

3614:

The common argument against the merger of road types is that "This one is used in this country and means this, while this term is used in this country and means this", or that "This term means different things in different jurisdictions". I find this a non-sensical argument. We do not have two

3155:

2. Overlap – There are two or more pages on related subjects that have a large overlap. Knowledge is not a dictionary; there does not need to be a separate entry for every concept in the universe. For example, "Flammable" and "Non-flammable" can both be explained in an article on Flammability.

2036:

I'm aware that I may sound elitist, but after four years of monitoring Knowledge's edit wars, I'm sick and tired of seeing mediocre editors wandering into Knowledge with no knowledge of the encyclopedia's traditional policies and wrecking perfectly good articles (which is why so many competent

1647:

That has been suggested at least three separate times. I opposed it in the past, but after watching all the road geeks fighting over these terminology issues for three years, I think it is the only compromise everyone can live with. I would support your suggested merge and use of redirects.

1055:

The above is utter nonsense. The word freeway is widely used in Canada and autoroute is never used outside of Quebec. Also, expressway has a totally different meaning than freeway in Canada. Relying on a Canadian dictionary in most instances is a joke. They have become nothing more than social

899:

Many rural expressways offer unrelieved monotony. Unless such a highway is in a scenic area it can hardly be "fun" to drive. Easy and swift? Sure. But most are much flatter than the roads that they supplant, much straighter, and of course without the courses through town, one sees little local

872:

That compromise actually worked because "fixed-wing aircraft" is frequently used in formal writing, especially histories of aviation, to distinguish all modern aircraft from the movable-wing aircraft that came before (when people thought that the way to fly was to flap their arms like a bird's

4901:

is also controlled access and this article is not about that. Personally I'd go with freeway as the title for two reasons. The ITE definition is probably the better one and OECD excludes non motor vehicles which is not correct in all cases. Since the ITE definition is for freeway, let that

1956:

Six weeks later and this is still a mess. Again, this is a situation where everyone has hopelessly conflicting visions of how this article should look like and no one has the time, energy, knowledge or ability to actually fix it. For example, the citations to the articles to which I inserted

2661:

are also a roadway network in a way that freeways are not. This is why some countries, like the UK, have insane road numbers like A1(M). The smarter way, as the U.S. and many other countries have recognized, is that some roads will simply never make sense financially to link into a national

950:

This may not mean much, but, anecdotally, I certainly enjoy driving on uncongested freeways. A drive need not be 'scenic' in the usual sense to be inspiring. I know plenty of people around here who (used to) drive on freeways simply for the sake of driving or getting away, rather than with a

3714:

so your comments on US bias are unfounded and based on past experience with editors. Besides, if there is a superceding legal document in Great Britain, we can use that as well! Tell me, though: What is the differences between an autobahn and a motorway, without getting into measurements or

3387:

The Traffic Engineers Handbook is an international manual, and it defines both expressway and freeway in general terms. A freeway has unrestricted flow and complete control-of-access; expressways have opposite flows seperated by a barrier or grass strip (median/central reservation) and some

659:

If you want to develop a new consensus in favor of the position that SPUI was advancing, you can certainly join forces with him to advance that position. I am personally neutral on this issue and will side with any position on how to organize the road articles as long as it is coherent and

5550:

What I meant was having an introduction, general specifications, and then a section that has subheaders for each country which list notable examples and exceptions and legalities associated with that country. There are always exceptions with roads, but this article is a general overview. -

3024:

often used to describe cultural dynamics outside of Germany. Even if English terms caught on that were not 100% equivalent, it would be weak pedagogy to simply ignore the similarities and box the ideas separately. Now, there might be some correlations between these terms' (the road terms')

2970:

do correlate with some dialect differences, and to understand the meaning of some road term term used by a random speaker (i.e. any highway, a limited access highway, a fully-controlled access highway) it is helpful to have some context of the speaker's sociocultural background. By using a

2048:

situation. That is, the concept of controlled/limited access roads has so many facets that very few civil engineers or historians of engineering have the time, energy, interest, and sophistication to get a grip on the issue in all its complexity, so as to be able to draft a comprehensive

438:

I briefly looked around on CalCat over the weekend and it looks like a few libraries do carry the old AASHTO Highway Definitions book, which would help clear up a lot of the arguments over definitions! Unfortunately, the only library with a copy that's 60 miles of me is the Institute of

5629:

Another thing I'd like to see the current freeway article become Freeways in the United States, there is need as we have freeways that are non-Interstate and the history and construction of freeways in this country predate the Interstate System. The article is already pretty US focused

1056:

engineering tools to convince Canadians that we are totally different than Americans in every way. They can delude themselves but that doesn't mean they are fooling or convincing the rest of us of their nonsense. Getting back on point, freeway is widely used and acceptable in Canada.

1367:, etc. precisely in the international article (except in brief country-specific paragraphs referring to full articles elsewhere, perhaps), since the role of these roads has a lot in common in all countries. My point earlier was that whatever subtle U.S. distinction you make between 2187:

An install-delete battle is breaking out on the Motorways article regarding the description of Pakistan’s motorways. I do not want to take sides, but I would like to resolve this problem and also, at the same time resolve the larger problem of Motorway, Freeways and Expressways.

5976:

no at-grade intersections, stop signs, signals or other impediments to free-flow (only interchanges) and the opposite directions of travel divided in some manner. I have no restraints, should there be enough content to warrant forking it, in creating "Motorways in X" articles. -

977:" 'Freeway' is a highway in respect to which the owners of abutting lands have no right or easement of access to or from their abutting lands or in respect to which such owners have only limited or restricted right or easement of access." - California Civic Code 332 as of 2006 3893:

Might have found a copy at the University of Toronto library. Will update when I check it out. In the interim I'm going to start sandboxing a new article. Now here is the biggie - can we find a common global term so we don't have to bicker over freeway vs motorway (for example,

2049:

encyclopedia article that neatly summarizes the topic. Such professionals are too busy with their day jobs to waste time contributing to Knowledge (when they have other higher priorities like trying to raise a family, build roads and bridges, deal with internal politics, etc.).

3223:

this. These two terms are just two similar. Then again road terms can mean something different depending on where you are (for example expressway could mean intersections in one country and interchanges in another), but in most cases motorway is just another word for freeway.

2495:

use a definition of a different term to define this one. Could you imagine the hubbub of introducing a definition of freeway (even a UN backed one) to authoritatively define the scope of the motorway article as you have done here? It wouldn't fly for a lot of reasons either.

1293:

amount of country-specific information is not a bad thing if it illustrates the general concept. It will be up to others to determine what goes on that page, but the principle will be that it's an "international" one. As I said, we'd have to go to the first contributor rule

4558:

It seems the consensus is pretty clear - chop nine of those hydra heads off and make one article that covers the global concept of a divided high-speed controlled-access road. Comparing both definitions available to us (gonna try and check out the British Standards today):

4583:

Freeway A: This designated roadways with greater visual complexity and high traffic volumes. Usually this type of freeway will be found in metropolitan areas in or near the central core and will operate through much of the early evening hours of darkness at or near design

4049:

754:

I generally agree about expressway/freeway, btw; I would probably expect a dab from Expressway to the articles on various forms of roads indicated by the term, since you're correct that the meaning varies greatly across locales, particularly across US locales. Regards,

5733:." in the middle of a running prose discussion of the controlled-access highways in Europe. With that link done like that, it wouldn't be proper to include it down below in a See also section. Another example would be something like "Macedonia is building a system of 3923:

have already published a definition for use in statistical reports for the words motorway (English) and Autoroute (French). I suggest that the top-level article should be called "Motorway/Autoroute" as that is terminology used by OECD. The text of the definition is:'

2069:

at-grade intersections. A lot of people apparently can't afford to travel widely and therefore aren't aware of the enormous diversity of transportation law and terminology. The last time I checked, an encyclopedia is supposed to deliver information, not ignorance.

5589:

Indeed. I'd advocate Canada and USA combining into a North America header, as the terms and specifications are generally set on a north American level. Britain could be separate perhaps, just because of their unique design. Continental Europe, Asia and Oceania. -

4752:

function as a modern highway, but were divided and designed specifically for automobiles. Ontario and Pennsylvania opened the first North American freeways in 1940. Britain, heavily influenced by the railroad, did not build its first motorway until the mid-1950s.

712:

Be that as it may, I think you've confirmed that my impression of the status quo is substantially correct, i.e. that some people have built a local semi-consensus for these articles that's radically different from established WP precedent for other issues such as

3971:

I think that this definition is comprehensive enough to eliminate virtually all roads that are not motorways or freeways, while being general enough to include those roads that are. In the case of the UK, clause (c) differentiate motorways from other high-speed

1844:

All of the images in this article are of freeways during the day. I think it would be neat to have one of those night-time long exposure images, where you can see an few minutes's worth of traffic streaming by, indicating the volume of traffic during that time.

6043:

is the result. Feel free to fill in any countries you are familiar with. Thoughts / comments? There is a lot of rambling across several articles to compress into useful to-the-point information, so I'm finding it troublesome to progress at a reasonable speed. -

4918:

An expressway is defined seperately by BOTH ITE and OECD as just a divided road with some control of access. You're confusing the designation of a roadway for private access (control of access) and a full control of access roadway (controlled-access highway) -

2056:

transportation professionals, and most of them have very limited knowledge of the subject. We end up with an incoherent document that swerves violently from one facet of the subject to the next. Look at the chaotic jumble in the first three paragraphs of the

4857:, I support this largely for reasons already listed here. Having one comprehensive article is better than these overlapping articles. Of course this is also about spelling differences and some minor design differences. But those can be explained to readers. -- 1336:

is difficult to reconcile with the freeway/expressway pigpen. So the result of Joeldl's proposed merge would probably be a 50K unreadable mess, which would immediately cause some editors to demand that it be split up, and we'd be right back where we started.

5280:

will be included. My view is that we start with the definition(s) as per the above table and then note that different jurisdictions have different names for the same thing - highlighting that Illinois expressways do not meet the criteria, but South African

4437:

If we stick to the OECD definition, this can easily be done and the text can note that the restictions do vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. We also need to agree how to handle differences in US/UK English, but that is something that can be looked at

439:

Transportation Studies Library at UC Berkeley, which has extremely limited public access hours (1-5 pm) and is closed weekends. So I won't be able to get up there for a few months. On the weekdays I'm just too busy with lawyer stuff like depositions. --

2557:

Not all Interstate Highways are freeways, not all freeways are Interstate Highways, just as not all UK motorway routes are built to motorway standards, and not all motorway standard roads are motorway routes. South Africa appears to use the term freeway

2784:

Other countries, such as South Africa, use road classification systems in which the relative importance of the road is emphasised rather than its standard. For example there are national roads (prefix N), regional (prefix R) and metropolitan (prefix M)

1987: 1350:

was used from the very start (if that word were chosen), it would not be any more confusing for people from those U.S. states where an expressway is something less than a freeway than it is when an American sees "football" for the hundredth time in

5945:

roads used by motorized vehicles regardless of level of access control (as distinguished from roads that don't allow motorized vehicles or are too small for them). That's why the U.S. never adopted "motorway" for controlled-access roads, because

2670:

at high speeds, a sign needs to present a LOT of whitespace around the text to make the sign stand out against the background visual clutter. Plus, there are a lot more wide twelve-lane (and wider) freeways than wide twelve-lane motorways. --

4342:

There is a similar variation here in the US. In Michigan, motorcycles under 150cc, bicycles, pedestrians and farm machinery can not use freeways. In some states in the Western US, bicyclists may use freeways. We even have an Interstate Highway

1529:

on equal footing. I don't object to the title of the international article being "Controlled-access divided highways" as suggested below, but it is unrealistic to use that expression throughout the article. Therefore the "first used" rule from

601:

rather than documenting the actual entity. For Wiktionary that would no doubt be the proper way of doing things, but my understanding is that for WP this is pretty non-standard, albeit apparently pretty well-established in this instance. -

3066:

Every freeway on which I have driven requires that one drives on the left! (They were in SOuth Africa). On the other hand I have driven on the left on some motorways and on the right on others (auto=motor; bahn/route=way which implies that

4102:

The point you add seems to indicated that motorways are a specific legal term in Britain that refers to a freeway designated as part of the motorway network, and that roads that fulfill 1–3 are known as "high-speed roads", if I'm correct. -

2260:

And I'm countermanding your edit immediately because it confuses readers (that is, the question it brings to mind is "What the hell is this doing here in an article on freeways?") and makes this article even longer than it already is. The

2742:

countries, primarily the UK, use motorway as a road classification or network, and in the UK's case there are roads that are not classified as as part of the motorway network that nevertheless fall within the broader OECD definition of

2576:

these definitions is so large that it makes sense to use a single, concise, internationally-agreed definition as a point of reference and to compare other definitions to that one. Moreover, given the Knowledge policy of verifiability (

4602:(a) is provided, except at special points or temporarily, with separate carriageways for the two directions of traffic, separated from each other, either by a dividing strip not intended for traffic, or exceptionally by other means; 3946:(a) is provided, except at special points or temporarily, with separate carriageways for the two directions of traffic, separated from each other, either by a dividing strip not intended for traffic, or exceptionally by other means; 1145:

I note my name mentioned a few times above. I'd like to offer input on this again. I think this article should restrict itself (and therefore be more coherent) to addressing what a Freeway is in countries that use that terminology.

3988:

I think in this case we should draw from all three references, as all of them contain very technical definitions, and OECD is not authoratative in the same manner as BS and ITE. We are going to encounter resistance to redirecting

3455:, it probably should be merged into highway, at least partially, since it is a divided highway. Other parts of that may be better placed it the freeway/motorway/whatever article if the consensus is to make significant changes. 1895:

Are we supposed to have an image gallery in the article? Isn't it prefered to just link to a Commons gallery? (Besides, what kind of freeway image gallery doesn't have a single photo of a Southern California freeway? Honestly.)

3688:

between freeways, motorways, autoroutes, autobahns, and autopistes are why a merger is a bad idea. All we'll end up with is a ten-headed hydra monster of an article packed with original research and synthesis in violation of

3835:. It always amazes me to discover that some obscure book is at a library within driving distance. Although the problem with European standards in general is that their publishers like to charge exorbitant amounts for them. 3715:

specifications? Or a motorway and a freeway. In fact, can any of you evevn offer me a seperate definition for each term? I bet you'll get the same thing each time. The only things changing are the examples and the country. -

822:

would result into a gigantic article and cause many editors to argue for going back to separate articles based on the length issue alone. For example, that's what happened to the formerly huge Transportation section of the

685:

You're right that I got lazy and failed to read a rather longish talk page (any of the 30 items I should be looking at? #24 perhaps?). Is there any practical way to have an informed opinion on this topic without reading

6092:

Thank you :) I've actually already performed the merger (just to be bold and bring people in), but left these talk pages because there is a lot of discussion on both. I hope the title sticks, as unlike Fixed-wing aircraft,

1246:

was created first, and that would be the word chosen for the "international" part. Otherwise just pick one randomly, because the current division is entirely artificial, as I think the Australia-U.S.-Canada example shows.

1961:

of what they were originally cited for! (E.g., the citation to van Hengel, Di Mento, Ryan.) But I don't have the time or energy to take the idiots who vandalized this article to arbitration and get them banned from the

4512:

help Knowledge which is why I like the OECD definition – it is country-neutral and covers most, if not all designated motorways in the UK while at the same time getting the reverse true most, if not all of the time.

951:

particular destination in mind (back when gas cost less than $ 1.00/gal.) That said, I'm not sure what place a statement of whether or not freeway driving is considered to be enjoyable has in this article, anyway. --

6004:

I saw Australia confusing here. What is the term do Australians consider? Motor way or free way? Or both? I don't want to remove the Australia here in this topic because it will earn criticism. Just an explanation.

3584:

if that is where we wind up. Also remember that consensus is not determined by counting opinions. It is determined by the strength of the arguments presented. I did notice that this is not formally announced at

1684:

Here's a new idea. How about this: Disambiguation pages with links to articles on particular highway systems. The following is not comprehensive, but is merely intended as an illustration of the general pattern:

525:

Freeway originated in the US. So why should this not be directed to the US and also include other areas that have adopted this term and also mention the names used by other places that have adopted this concept?

6077:

argument). I note that many of the comments on this talk page are about what a combined article should be called, not disputing that there should only be one article about a type of road with a diverse range of

5679:

Do we have consensus to move forward yet? I think it's fairly clear from the discussion that everyone is in favour of making a singular article to cover this type of road. Let's begin a sandbox article if so. -

1460:

Well, if we were to use "expressway," we would offend half the U.S. audience (including a substantial portion of the American civil engineering and law enforcement communities, who are all required to learn the

5575:(or any other country). If there is something specific about Ruritainian autobahnen that is worthy of mention, then it should be mentioned in the relevant section (junction design, emergency phone design etc). 4653:

I like the technicality of the OECD definition. I like the simplicity of wording in the ITE definition. The OECD definition seems bulky at times, eg "is reserved for specific categories of road motor vehicles."

1154:. That article could do with *major* work as it is essentially just a list. A decent taxonomy would be far better, and would be a sort of parent article for this (Freeway) article and others such as Motorway. 847:"to merge motorway with freeway (even if freeway is the majority term in terms of the number of native English language speakers who use it)" -- Well, that issue is dealt with by a well established precedent ( 551:

predate any US freeways, so that by your rationale the article would need to be Germanocentric? Regardless of who invented the freeway, origin is not the sole determinant in Knowledge naming conventions.

1913:

Citations are hardly needed when a fact is common knowledge. Anyone driving on one of these highways can confirm the above claim to be true. Let's cease with the rather liberal use of the "citation needed"

1569:

The acronym is just a more practical version of the generic (i.e., jurisdiction independent) term. If there's a Knowledge rule that the acronym form of a term has to be attested, it might be appropriate to

153: 2289: 3527:

Correct. Modifying others comments is not acceptable. And considering that I have yet to decide on a stance here, while waiting for more opinions, classifying my comments as !votes is completely wrong.

2209:

3) Merge the Freeways article and Motorways articles into one, removing country-specific items unless they are noteworthy outside the country concerned. The combined article (which would have the title

5941:

Your argument can easily be turned on its head. Motorway is intellectually incoherent because it doesn't accurately describe the road itself; from the looks of it, it should be a term applicable to

6040: 4948:

is the term commonly used for motorway accesses. 3) Rather than the word "divided", perhaps "separated" would be more apposite in the phrase "... opposite directions of travel are divided...". --

639:

to do precisely what you are implying (that is, using this article to treat the topic generally), and I was sort of siding with that view, but a huge number of other editors objected, particularly

1150:

finding a generic term for such roads (there is enough complication defining the roads within countries that we have large discussion on Freeway, Motorway, etc. as is) that is why I suggest using

2471:

agreed definition of what a freeway is, then my all means replace the motorway definition with that definition. Until then, leave it - it give an internationally-recognised point of reference.

2215: 2204:

be written. This article will explain the difference between the various terms using the OECD definition as a starting point. The choice of the OECD definition will ensure a neutral standpoint.

1821:

and accuracy criteria. Where an English word is called for, I think the choice between "freeway", "expressway", "motorway" and "autoroute" would have to be based on the first contributor rule in

1538:

word wasn't rejected on the basis of its being judged less suitable, just that usage varies by country and one word had to be chosen. This is not just a U.S./U.S. debate or even a U.S./U.K. one.

5708:

section. I think that this list should be inlcuded in the merged article that we are talking about and that one of our guiding principals when making reference to a specific country should be "

3507:

Please undo your actions. You will confuse the closing admin, and are putting a vote in the mouth of users that may simply be commenting, including both a support and oppose with vegaswikian. -

3359:

My understanding is that the legal definition of a freeway and an expressway in the US varies from state to state - and that some states do not have a legal definition of expressways at all.

3345:

names to describe the concept of how the road was used and accessed. I'll try and add a few links if I can find those old discussions. But naming of these articles has a pot holed history.

1234:. But I think Knowledge policy favours the variety of English of the first contributor for non-country-related articles, so the idea would be to go back and see which of the three articles 3373:

I left a note on the talk page for an editor who seems to be up on the legal issues. With any luck he will have some time to drop by this discussion to leave us with some accurate facts.

5739:

using concepts inherited from the former Yugoslavia." I agree with using the links, but we'll have to see how the article shakes up to know how much of the list will need to be copied.

3811:

Looks like the official glossary of civil engineering terms is BS 6100 subsection 2.4.1. Unfortunately every result I am finding is purchasing it as a publication... for about $ 150! -

2270:

motorway and freeway are in simultaneous use as legal definitions. Anyone interested in the motorway definition can read it there. Also, you haven't responded to the points I made at

2292:, the OECD does use "motorway" to include U.S. freeways. Given that, and their definition, they're definitely talking about the concept covered in this article, and not the one in the 2417: 647:

into this article, even though the term is clearly a minority usage in English (the fact that Hollywood is located in California helps to boost usage of "freeway" over "motorway").

4123:

After talking to a few people, that seems to be the case, and a motorway is akin to an interstate in the US; that is to say it is a freeway designated in the motorway network. -

1420: 1468:

I've been editing Knowledge for about three years now (go look at my contributions) and I've seen freeway and expressway merged and split up in various edit wars because there

2604: 3589:

which would be the best way to do a move proposal. However, so far it seems to be a discussion to try and see how to proceed. So a formal nomination may not be needed yet.

4379:

I would add that the generic autobahn, autopista, etc articles should be folded in as well one article can easily cover the various terminogoly for the concept of a freeway.

3580:

At some point an administrator will get involved to determine the consensus from the discussion and close the discussion. Of course it is valid to wind up with a close of

2543:

BTW, I have driven on Motorways/Freeways/Expressways in at least 10 different countries and I have seen the differences in roads that OECD class at "motorways/autoroutes".

1547:

About the generic term ("Controlled-access divided highways"); assuming that the length of the term is what makes it unrealistic to use throughout the article, the acronym

5098:

The article introduction will be written without geospecific wording. Individual country sections should be written in the appropriate variation of english per the MOS. -

1968:

That's why I increasingly limit my limited Knowledge editing time to uploading photos, and monitoring the few articles that I have been able to keep in decent shape, like

2010:

That's spoken like a true elitist, Coolcaesar. Admittedly working with others is difficult, but that doesn't excuse you from seeking consensus. I'm sure you think that

3997:

or vice-versa, especially given the tensions between US and UK road editors (less so with Jeni retired, but still); there is also the possibility of redirecting both to

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Also, just for reference, the order that slip road vs ramp and median vs central reservation are in was determined by what order sounds most appropriate when spoken. -

486:

Or perhaps freeway is a sufficiently internationally-accepted name for a main article title, in which case every locale with freeways enjoys equal stake in the article.

4487:

Since there are multiple reliable resources on the definition, we should be analyzing all three and formulating one ourselves that combine the aspects of all three. -

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is a distinct concept, not just a distinct name; if so, the article needs to be pruned to be relevant to freeways and not autopistas etc. I think that's clearly the

2305:

If this article is about US Freeways, what is the discussion about South African and Canadian freeways doing in it? If it is about freeways worldwide, does a better

4862: 2596: 2407: 1082: 911: 859:). But I agree that it's a battle not worth the effort. If Knowledge's powers-that-be want a less-rendundant Knowledge, let them worry about it. Score one for 807:

majority term in terms of the number of native English language speakers who use it) would be offensive and insensitive since this is a encyclopedia of global scale.

4728:. The opposing directions of travel are separated in some form, either by a strip of grass or boulders, or by a wooden, metal or concrete barrier, referred to as a 5080: 3998: 2600: 1067: 956: 147: 4971:

into this article at this time. If desired, we can after the initial article is fleshed out. Third, I'd suggest that the whole article use Oxford English as the

3318:

and that the country specific information that would be lost is reassigned to to articles specific to the countries concerned. Suggestions for the way in which

4580:

Freeway: This is a divided major roadway with full control of access and with no crossings at grade. This definition applies to toll as well as nontoll roads.

4046:

Freeway: This is a divided major roadway with full control of access and with no crossings at grade. This definition applies to toll as well as nontoll roads.

3421:

Legally, without control-of-access, a municipality is obliged to provide driveway access to a lot. This is from memory; I will verify with the text tomorrow. -

1965:

This is such a great example of everything that is wrong with Knowledge. Some day I will have to write an article about this issue for some scholarly journal.

691:

seems reasonable that I should perform due diligence), rather a general gripe I have with Knowledge. Often the persistent can win disputes through attrition.

4005:. No need to bring the term autoroute in to the title, that's the title at the French Knowledge; but a section on these roads in France would include it. - 5925: 996: 2434:, which are certainly related but are also clearly distinguishable. The OECD definition is inappropriate. I plan to excise it from the article soon. -- 939:

book by David Brodsly. The book is widely available (see WorldCat) so I should be able to get to a copy and get the page cite in a couple of weeks. --

2443: 2014:

benefits from your edits exclusively, but you would be well served to respect the contributions of others and approach edits with a better attitude. -

1299:

roads in these countries except the word. The current division is too focused on avoiding conflict about the choice of word at the expense of content.

4025:

I have no strong views about the title of a merger article, other than that it should be international in flavour, rather than UK-biased or US-biased.

5356:

Limited access dual carriageway road not crossed on the same level by other traffic lanes, for the exclusive use of certain classes of motor vehicles

3088: 5125:. Yes, it should be as language neutral as possible but the default, based on the established history of the articles, should be American English. 1937:, I suppose. NO ONE has the time, energy, or desire to fix this hopelessly confused hairball of an article, so it gets worse every year. At least 1928: 1877: 6154: 6139: 5921: 3836: 2665:

Also, motorways have shorter overpasses, tighter ramp geometry, narrower shoulders, narrower lanes, and less forgiving barriers than freeways. A

1915: 6159: 4949: 4836:. Combining all these terms into one comprehensive article is a sensible thing to do, not to mention far less confusing to the average reader. 4329: 4258:

in freeway has to do with free movement of traffic, and not free of charge. This misconception is often perpetuated by calling tolled freeways

5644:

That's another discussion, separate than what is proposed here. Feel free to start a proposal at a different venue to create such an article.

4801:

Still planning on reading the British Standards tonight. I'll post the definitions once I've got them. Autoroute has been added to the mix. -

4043:

I'm copying the definitions from the T.E.H. so we can compare. Its definition isn't much different, but is worded in the context of lighting:

3079:"). I think that the real difference is whether or not policitians and lawyers want to be bound by definitions that were not of their making. 2236: 4712:

designed and built specifically for high-speed vehicular traffic. Its primary purpose is to provide an unhindered flow of traffic, with no

2561:

synonymously with 'motorway', why should the world adopt SA's standard, when all relevant definitions can be included and given due weight?

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The motorway definition from British Standards 6100, ss 2.4.1 has been added to the chart. It's less specific than the OECD definition. -

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Well, I guess this article is becoming more and more of a mess (starting with the fact that it has the motorway icon at the top, which is

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through the area. Michigan used to call the freeways in the Detroit are "expressways", but since the 1950s the names have all switched.)

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Having personally driven on both, I can say that motorways are both legally and physically different from freeways in many, many ways.

943: 3755: 3245:, but motorways and freeways are two different concepts - freeways are free of tolls while motorways are built to s specific standard. 793:

You might be right, but try convincing Zoney and all other European editors of that. Again, as I've repeatedly stated, I will support

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Is it up to us to create a worldwide definition, or is it up to use to look for an authoritative definition that already exists? The

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or property access. Access is provided by slip roads or ramps, which allow for acceleration and deceleration between the highway and

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to split the article to country-specific articles on motorways/autobahnen of those (German-speaking) countries; generic matrial from

1950: 635:

talk pages and reading down until you understand exactly what is going on. If you go back up several sections, you'll see that SPUI

3631:; nor should we have seperate articles for motorway and freeway. They are the same thing; there are simply variations in the actual 2858: 2396:

This is merely opinion without a poll, study, or at least something. People need to keep their personal beliefs out of Knowledge.

1465:

MUTCD as part of their training) and the other half if we use "freeway." So there really is no satisfactory way to merge the terms.

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Entry and exit lanes of motorways are included irrespectively of the location of the sign-posts. Urban motorways are also included.

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Entry and exit lanes of motorways are included irrespectively of the location of the sign-posts. Urban motorways are also included.

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as well as keeping up with my professional career to fix this mess, and it looks like everyone else is busy with school or work.

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famously mocked this in one of his books, and discussed the slightly more open approach of most American standards publishers. --

2842: 1910:"In major cities, guide signs are often mounted on overpasses or overhead gantries so that drivers can see where each lane goes." 5230:

A number of asian countries use the term expressway for fully controlled highways it wouldn't make sense to link to article like

5163: 5093: 3038: 2679: 1999: 1638:, etc.) could be redirected to it. Detailed material could then be broken out by jurisdiction into separate articles as needed.-- 907: 860: 842: 296: 260: 5055: 1981: 1493:

is official at the federal level in the U.S. may give it greater status there, but the only word that is universal in Canada is

717:. If I have time maybe I can try to reestablish consensus with SPUI or maybe it's a fruitless battle, I don't know. I think 461: 6164: 5648:

would be full of editors willing to discuss such a thing. However I would wait to see how the newly merged article shapes up.

5134: 5113: 4911: 3537: 3464: 3436: 3382: 3368: 3354: 3339: 3268: 2624: 2589: 2570: 2552: 2504: 2214:) would have a short introduction to the various country-specific articles which would serve as an introduction to the article 443: 5991: 5966: 5761: 5545: 5395: 5367: 5349: 5070: 5021: 4997: 4783:

the French "autoroute" in the list, particularly because it is used in the OECD definitions appear in both English and French.

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I'm jumping into this kind of late, but there's another reference (from the states) you may want. It defines the following.

4845: 4369: 4347:) that isn't a freeway, so any merged article will need to acknowledge that there are exceptions, but the general rule is... 4176: 3598: 3254: 2458: 2123: 1652: 1327:

that takes a worldwide view and fully covers the general category of controlled-access divided highways. The situation with

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I finally got the Highway Definitions book! Though it's actually a booklet. I'm going to start cleaning up this article and

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later. Most Americans don't even know what the OECD is, because its presence in the North America economy is so minimal. --

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The institute of transportation engineers (ITE) is an international organization with engineers in 90 countries world-wide,

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pronounceable in Chinese? If this just means that they borrowed the word from English, then I would say that the word they

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Why am I including this text in the article "Motorways and Freeways" when in fact it is available in the national article

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crossings with other roads, railways or pedestrian paths; overpasses and underpasses provide access across the highway.

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Sorry, I'm really too busy. I thought it might be of some use nevertheless to leave some more up to date comments here.

6134: 6034: 2323: 1303: 1283: 1251: 1063: 952: 30: 2912:. Or, a solution might instead recommend hosting that information elsewhere at a less intuitive (for some) title like 1876:

If they are, I like Freeway on p. 3 best, but if they are not, maybe we should pick an image from wikimedia commons.--

168: 6059: 4304:

That is a good point, but I wonder of the first long-distance freeways in the US to be called "freeways" were tolled?

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Aside from the additional rule, the ITE definition is also global (just switching the term motorway for freeway). -

135: 5752: 5661: 5386: 5340: 5154: 5046: 4988: 4360: 4279: 4210: 3758:

as a professional body for Highway engineers - it probalby does a similar job in the UK as the ITE does in the US.

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Some adjustments have been made. No need to oppose based on the title at this point folks, lets save that to the

4595:

Road, specially designed and built for motor traffic, which does not serve properties bordering on it, and which:

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Road, specially designed and built for motor traffic, which does not serve properties bordering on it, and which:

3490:

throughout this discussion. Please change the annotation on your comment if you disagree with my interpretation!

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interested in the other names for similar roads can find out about them through the footer template and the main

99: 44: 4184:

the concept of a merger. I think we can at least agree that far. We may need to give this the same treatment as

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Just so everyone knows, I'm working on a sandbox version that I will present in several weeks. Hold tight :) -

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countries, but rather to condense the remaining information down into a single article instead of 3 or 4. -

4197:

The key for me is 1) agree to a concept on a merger and then 2) implement the merger in a sensible fashion.

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article ("roads specifically called motorways", which is more analogous to an Interstate than a freeway). --

1517:

is never used. (There is no federal rule in Canada that I'm aware of.) As far as I'm concerned, that places

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for a while per Zoney's suggestion, but that really didn't work very well, so I brought some of it back. --

4587:

Freeway B: This designates all other divided roadways with full control of access where lighting is needed.

4053:

Freeway B: This designates all other divided roadways with full control of access where lighting is needed.

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I agree with this concept. That's essentially Canadian English, and would save from language arguments. -

4612:(c) is specially sign-posted as a motorway and is reserved for specific categories of road motor vehicles. 4077:

Divided directions of travel (the dividing strip is known as a median or central reservation (Outside NA))

3956:(c) is specially sign-posted as a motorway and is reserved for specific categories of road motor vehicles. 3913: 2411: 1900: 1038:. I think people in Western Canada use it, but the most common word in Canada, when people don't just say 547:(rather than the term freeway) originated in the US, your point has some validity. But don't the German 5933: 5902: 5536:

could well be used as a case study when comparing with a Western US freeway (which does allow bicycles).

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used in the country where the term "freeway" was pioneered, the United States). I'm too busy working on

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particular kind of infrastructure common to ALL the populous developing and developed areas of the world

1375:, that's not going to carry over to Australia or Canada in exactly the same way, so even on a page like 1359:

be confused than each nationality complaining about using the other's words. There is no need to define

472:

used in the country where the term "freeway" was pioneered, the United States" - What does that matter?

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countries, so maybe the editors of those pages should decide on the names. Have a look at this survey:

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is a distinctly US name for an international concept, in which case the article should be renamed a la

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citations have been severely vandalized so that they are now cited to support assertions that are the

1941:

is slowly getting better over time because I keep an eye on it and kill off bad edits immediately. --

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to adopt a compromise term as a main name for the article. There are plenty of other topics such as

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This article seems to list 90% stuff ONLY relating to the USA, nothing about other countries? Huh? --

2129: 2045: 1071: 623:

Pardon my bluntness, but your postings are so out of touch that you have clearly failed to read this

5854:. This is a controversial thing. We have to need another long discussion here to solve the dispute. 1170: 787: 125: 5452: 4344: 2335:

there are no countries where both motorway and freeway are in simultaneous use as legal definitions

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the two concepts is inaccurate, misleading, and plain wrong; it's like conflating the concepts of

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

304:

on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

6065:

The draft article will do me, and well done Floydian. I like the title, which can be compared to

6020: 5869: 5532: 5075:(ec)The article should remain in American English. This is what was used when the concept was at 3172: 3150:

1. Duplicate – There are two or more pages on exactly the same subject and having the same scope.

3119: 3109: 2116: 1839: 824: 109: 4156:- Freeways and motorways are the same concept, this is just a difference in US and UK spelling. 834:

Essentially all these terms are approximate co-equals, which is why we treat them as such under

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Freeways may be free of tolls, but they are free because they are free of at grade crossings.

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If the Kennedy Expressway (I have never been to the US, let alone travelled that road) is a "

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Highway—a general term for denoting a public way for purposes of travel by vehicular travel,

5061:

to ensure that such a lottery would be fair assuming of course that there is no collusion).

1136:'Freeway' is the official English translation there. I can show you some images if you want. 5962: 5917: 5747: 5656: 5490: 5381: 5335: 5231: 5149: 5041: 4983: 4461: 4355: 4274: 4205: 4002: 3844: 3702: 2854: 2830: 2675: 2439: 2399: 2357: 2279: 2109: 2081: 1977: 1946: 1793:, in particular the results of Question 49. Of course, "highway" isn't an acceptable name. 1412: 1408: 1140: 1059: 3542:

Sorry chaps. I didn't mean to cause any trouble there. I will no longer add words such as

8: 6066: 5645: 5185:

end, as the rest of the content doesn't depend on the title and introductory sentence. -

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Any thoughts? I've stuck with "highway" as the noun, since its the least geospecific. -

500:

point of view if I could be convinced that freeway were a totally separate concept from

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You mean that Illinois' expressways are really freeways, then yes. (What is called the

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definition exist to link the various article than the one that I published? Regarding

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I think that a dictionary should be considered a more liable source than a post here.--

931:

I dispute your deletion. I just opened a similar dispute with another editor over the

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for the international material? Aliases whose meaning varies by jurisdiction (such as

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is very much on our side, i.e. that articles shouldn't be in 1:1 correspondence with

643:. Specifically, many UK-based editors were highly offended by the notion of merging 565: 301: 141: 51: 5819: 3794: 568:

where locale of origin is but one consideration in the Knowledge naming conventions.

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that trying to develop a neutral name for this article was tried without success;

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article, for example. It looks like a schizophrenic having a debate with himself!

1355:. I really think that it's been less a matter of being worried that people could 1030:. Personally, — I'm from Quebec — I've never heard anyone use anything other than 161: 5958: 5826: 5742: 5651: 5376: 5330: 5144: 5036: 4978: 4748: 4725: 4713: 4607:(b) does not cross at level with any road, railway or tramway track, or footpath; 4457: 4350: 4269: 4237: 4200: 3951:(b) does not cross at level with any road, railway or tramway track, or footpath; 3840: 3698: 3551: 3176: 3133: 2850: 2684: 2671: 2464: 2435: 2393:

and growing popular support for high-speed mass transit in lieu of new freeways.

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is currently in regular use in Canada, Taiwan, Australia, and the United States.

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using the Traffic Engineers Handbook, by the Institute of Traffic Engineers. -

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1) The section on Pakistan’s motorways be allowed to stand for the time being.

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motivated to see things done the theoretically "right" way against resistance.

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And then at the end of each of the disambuigation link lists, have a link to

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should apply, and should at least give people a measure of comfort because

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where I live, there are several highways called (and legally gazetted as)

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which draws all four articles together in a non-country specific manner.

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no easy way to satisfy the other half of the U.S. population that prefers

900:

character. Even the commercial development along freeways is homogenized.

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4) Finally point redirect the Expressway article to the Motorway article.

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Thus, we end up with an article edited by a bunch of dilettantes who are

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for readers interested in the big picture. What does everyone think? --

1585: 1561: 1539: 1501:, mine doesn't and I've never heard it. Older Canadian dictionaries mark 1428: 1416: 1300: 1248: 1127: 1092: 1047: 935:

article. I believe both disputes can be resolved with a citation to the

5814:

including the entire area within the right-of-way. The reference is the

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half a century. If it is the latter, where is the definition defective?

3712: 2916:, however there are more problems to be addressed if that road is taken. 2463:

This article is about freeways worldwide, not just about US freeways. If

2216:

List of highway systems with full control of access and no cross traffic

1513:

have no more reason to be offended than Canadians do in provinces where

729:. But if it's going to be a major battle then I'm afraid I'm just not 282: 208: 5839: 5822: 5514: 5417: 5402: 4968: 4898: 4743:

Germany pioneered the controlled-access highway (then referred to as a

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size of the network, and the nomenclature of that part of the world. -

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I've made a good start on the basic framework for the proposed merge.

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Each of these are slightly different. May I suggest that the article

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What I keep seeing as the problem with many, many articles, including

1622:

How about having an article with a jurisdiction independent name like

1476:

definition. Plus a lot of the freeway/expressway content went off to

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I suggest more information about allowed freeway speeds by country.--

1702: 1231: 852: 586: 505: 5838:- This is still controversial. Do not call me naugty here. The term 5120:

Third, I'd suggest that the whole article use Oxford English as the

1046:. I think "Canada" should probably be changed to "parts of Canada". 6070: 5851: 5701: 5458: 5440: 4737: 4407: 4262:. The first long-distance freeways in the US were tolled, like the 4189: 3994: 3832: 3624: 3293: 3201: 3125: 2967: 2658: 2525: 2510: 2490:

sense that freeway does not: a top-level route classification with

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I think the use of the word in Canada is fairly restricted. The

802:

filed one request for arbitration so far, which was successful (

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resulting battle all the way through mediation and arbitration.

432: 3562:) 23:51, 12 January 2011 (UTC) - by the way, what or who is a 3163:

The existence of two articles is like having two articles for

2605:

Highways with no cross traffic and access only at interchanges

2580:), the definition that I have found meets Knowledge’s policy. 209: 5486: 4638:, for the exclusive use of certain classes of motor vehicles. 4001:, or a similar title that favours neither, but still follows 2485:

They are certainly comparable. Physically, they are the same

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Expressway—a divided highway with partial control of access.

5276:

A number of contributors have concerns as to whether or not

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definition to double as as the British/European definition.

4507:

As far as I can see, UK legislation defines a motorway as a

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one which is in both the motorway and the freeway articles.

4227:

From what I can see, the major difference between the term

3920: 3737: 3550:

to any other person's comments. Be assured I was acting in

2427: 356: 338: 2418:

The improper motorway material in this article needs to go

489:

Or finally, as seems to be the settled consensus, perhaps

5704:

has a long list of links to national road systems in its

2597:

Highways with full control of access and no cross traffic

1617:

Just in case the following hasn't already been suggested:

1551:

could be substituted in the article once it's defined. --

1387:

doing it in a different way for each country. Currently,

5477:) while still legally being motorways; while some other 5084:

changing the established version of English being used.

5081:

highway with full control of access and no cross traffic

2601:

Highway with full control of access and no cross traffic

2540:

provides a useful, neutral, well-worded reference point.

3684:

And in response to that point, I'll point out that the

3478:

Hello all, I have added/will continue to add the words

2688:

Brit, I look for an appology for the latter statement.

5805:

Freeway—a divided highway with full control of access.

5505:. If you have clarity that the point of discussion is 2524:

If one looks at the words involved, one will see that

1077:"Freeway" is rarely used in Canada. "Highway" is used. 160: 2246:

into the "Legal Definitions" section of the article.

5818:(MUTCD) from the U.S. Department of transportation. 818:, which are already quite long. Merging those into 556:

were invented in the US (I'm not sure what term the

384:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 362: 300:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 278: 15: 5235:

a general term. Otherwise I think it is good start.

2168:

The Motorways – Freeway – Expressway debate (again)

1990:rename nomination. It should bring back memories. 2288:Assuming there's nothing sketchy going on with on 2657:The problem, as Synchronism pointed out, is that 597:etc. seem to be organized around documenting the 6121: 5447:. This is easy for me to understand, because in 4402:please note that there is a current proposal at 2349:meaning "road" or "way" (cw with the Dutch word 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 5426:highways that have somewhat lesser degrees of 3797:has a page full of links. You could try them. 3141:There are several good reasons to merge a page: 3132:. This is in line with the Knowledge policy at 2509:What is a freeway? For that matter, what is a 1736:Autoroutes, freeways, and expressways of Canada 1720:Autoroutes, freeways, and expressways of Canada 1710:Autoroutes, freeways, and expressways of Canada 5700:I think that we are nearly there. The article 4684:, known by various terms worldwide, including 3326:should be handled. There should be an article 1509:or something similar. So Americans who prefer 1383:you can't really try to draw that distinction 4736:. A controlled-access highway is free of any 4240:could take sections over for use as runways. 4083:Access provided at selected and marked points 3175:would also inform this merger discussion. In 2390:This unsighted comment is merely propaganda: 2184:. Please respond on the Motorway talk page. 1739:Freeways and expressways of the United States 1723:Freeways and expressways of the United States 810:Finally, you need to look at the articles on 453:this weekend as I've been discussing over at 174: 5571:I would try to avoid having a subsection on 3451:out of your list. If anything happens with 1855:That's a good idea. Pick your favorite from 1346:If it was made clear in what sense the word 2290:List of OECD countries by road network size 2242:I have incorporated the OECD definition of 3756:Institution of Highways and Transportation 3273:We have a number of overlapping articles: 3193:Also, I note that the article starts with 2172:This posting appears on the Talk pages of 5816:Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices 3639:of the roadway. The concept, however, is 234:does not require a rating on Knowledge's 5495:used widely in English translation there 5118:That is not what is being proposed with 4074:Summarizing both, the common ground is: 3020:The gesellschaft/gemeinschaft dichotomy 1929:Two years later and this is STILL A MESS 1419:11:25, 25 March 2007 (UTC) I should add 6041:User:Floydian/Controlled-access highway 4634:not crossed on the same level by other 3623:. We do not have seperate articles for 3099:(or autoroute) in Victoria, Australia. 1497:. Although some provinces also now use 861:Knowledge:Why Knowledge is not so great 314:Knowledge:WikiProject Civil engineering 6155:Redirect-Class Road transport articles 6140:WikiProject Civil engineering articles 6122: 631:. I suggest starting from the top of 581:The other issue is that articles like 317:Template:WikiProject Civil engineering 6160:NA-importance Road transport articles 3171:(they are merged). I think a read of 483:to something internationally neutral. 378:This redirect is within the scope of 294:This redirect is within the scope of 221: 970: 895:Fun to drive an uncongested freeway? 217: 5465:, of which latter a few are called 2202:Motorways, Freeways and Expressways 1749:Freeways and motorways of Australia 1733:Freeways and motorways of Australia 240:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 13: 6097:is the actual engineering term. - 5485:in New Zealand law. Meanwhile, in 4080:No at-grade crossings what-so-ever 1624:controlled-access divided highways 423:Drifting towards entropy, it seems 14: 6176: 5846:in the Philippines, equally with 2064:Another example: Until I got the 1662:and providing more detail there. 6145:Redirect-Class Highways articles 5461:and some are 2-4 lane undivided 2345:meaning "fast" or "express" and 1867:Are those released under GFDL? - 967:Bad bad quote, why I took it out 365: 355: 337: 281: 271: 253: 222: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 6150:NA-importance Highways articles 2212:OECD-preferred name of Motorway 1986:You may want to take a look at 1761:Motorways of the United Kingdom 1425:Motorways of the United Kingdom 5517:), there should be no problem. 5077:full access controlled highway 3075:" are direct translations of " 2613:Full access controlled highway 2124:22:07, 19 September 2008 (UTC) 2110:10:52, 18 September 2008 (UTC) 1072:03:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC) 398:Knowledge:WikiProject Highways 1: 6165:WikiProject Highways articles 5439:. No more should the article 5414:Knowledge is not a dictionary 2374:12:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC) 2324:11:08, 21 November 2009 (UTC) 2301:06:29, 21 November 2009 (UTC) 2284:05:53, 21 November 2009 (UTC) 2256:21:34, 20 November 2009 (UTC) 2163:11:31, 11 February 2009 (UTC) 2086:03:38, 8 September 2008 (UTC) 2024:03:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC) 2000:01:44, 8 September 2008 (UTC) 1982:01:23, 8 September 2008 (UTC) 1924:14:34, 26 December 2007 (UTC) 1421:Freeways of the United States 1131:16:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC) 1051:16:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC) 933:Transportation in Los Angeles 882:21:08, 21 December 2006 (UTC) 868:21:49, 19 December 2006 (UTC) 843:21:06, 18 December 2006 (UTC) 829:Transportation of Los Angeles 788:17:03, 18 December 2006 (UTC) 444:07:50, 15 November 2006 (UTC) 401:Template:WikiProject Highways 392:and see a list of open tasks. 308:and see a list of open tasks. 297:WikiProject Civil engineering 42:Put new text under old text. 5791:09:07, 6 February 2011 (UTC) 5762:08:55, 24 January 2011 (UTC) 5722:06:33, 24 January 2011 (UTC) 5696:01:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC) 5671:08:55, 24 January 2011 (UTC) 5640:04:21, 22 January 2011 (UTC) 5606:17:19, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 5585:15:26, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 5567:13:57, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 5546:11:39, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 5527:23:30, 23 January 2011 (UTC) 5481:possibly exist that are not 5396:08:26, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 5368:08:14, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 5350:06:56, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 5315:06:22, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 5267:04:48, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 5245:00:12, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 5221:22:49, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 5201:22:42, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 5164:22:50, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 5135:00:17, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 5114:22:42, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 5094:22:33, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 5071:22:30, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 5056:22:16, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 5022:22:46, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 4998:22:01, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 4958:22:00, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 4935:03:55, 21 January 2011 (UTC) 4912:21:41, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 4890:21:40, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 4867:14:48, 1 February 2011 (UTC) 4846:18:57, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 4817:21:25, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 4797:18:47, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 4778:16:33, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 4542:16:41, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 4522:12:17, 20 January 2011 (UTC) 4503:15:09, 19 January 2011 (UTC) 4483:11:59, 19 January 2011 (UTC) 4466:08:44, 19 January 2011 (UTC) 4448:12:04, 18 January 2011 (UTC) 4424:22:51, 19 January 2011 (UTC) 4389:11:07, 18 January 2011 (UTC) 4370:10:00, 18 January 2011 (UTC) 4338:09:41, 18 January 2011 (UTC) 4314:22:51, 19 January 2011 (UTC) 4289:08:02, 18 January 2011 (UTC) 4250:06:30, 18 January 2011 (UTC) 4220:03:13, 18 January 2011 (UTC) 4177:00:11, 18 January 2011 (UTC) 4139:00:32, 18 January 2011 (UTC) 4119:22:03, 17 January 2011 (UTC) 4039:21:15, 17 January 2011 (UTC) 4021:16:58, 17 January 2011 (UTC) 3984:16:08, 17 January 2011 (UTC) 3914:15:31, 17 January 2011 (UTC) 3870:01:42, 16 January 2011 (UTC) 3849:00:00, 16 January 2011 (UTC) 3827:07:30, 14 January 2011 (UTC) 3807:06:20, 14 January 2011 (UTC) 3789:23:34, 13 January 2011 (UTC) 3768:19:55, 13 January 2011 (UTC) 3750:13:51, 13 January 2011 (UTC) 3731:13:38, 13 January 2011 (UTC) 3707:11:51, 13 January 2011 (UTC) 3695:Traffic Engineering Handbook 3680:08:25, 13 January 2011 (UTC) 3663:20:44, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3599:00:48, 13 January 2011 (UTC) 3576:23:55, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3538:21:40, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3523:20:47, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3500:20:42, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3465:21:46, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3437:05:05, 13 January 2011 (UTC) 3383:20:37, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3369:20:31, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3355:19:48, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3340:12:20, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3306:be trimmed back and renamed 3269:07:16, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3255:06:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3234:06:00, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3214:05:27, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 3189:05:25, 12 January 2011 (UTC) 2625:22:05, 21 January 2010 (UTC) 2590:21:17, 21 January 2010 (UTC) 2571:12:36, 21 January 2010 (UTC) 2553:12:10, 21 January 2010 (UTC) 2505:06:21, 21 January 2010 (UTC) 2481:07:56, 17 January 2010 (UTC) 2459:00:37, 17 January 2010 (UTC) 2444:22:22, 16 January 2010 (UTC) 2412:06:36, 6 December 2009 (UTC) 2237:12:35, 29 October 2009 (UTC) 2144:04:53, 7 November 2008 (UTC) 1782:will be as much controversy 1101:23:53, 4 December 2007 (UTC) 992:07:32, 30 January 2007 (UTC) 760:05:45, 4 December 2006 (UTC) 665:03:33, 4 December 2006 (UTC) 607:20:11, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 562:Knowledge found it necessary 531:19:34, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 521:14:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 462:06:03, 2 December 2006 (UTC) 7: 4670:So here's my basic premise: 3793:The British road geek site 2191:My proposal is as follows: 1802:I disagree. Knowledge will 1391:contains information about 944:11:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC) 924:06:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC) 50:New to Knowledge? Welcome! 10: 6181: 6035:Performing this transition 5831:06:54, 19 March 2011 (UTC) 3736:I have come across is the 2200:2) A new article entitled 1933:This is an example of the 1881:23:02, 28 April 2007 (UTC) 1872:13:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC) 1863:06:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC) 1850:04:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC) 1811:get only blank stares. -- 1677:15:08, 27 March 2007 (UTC) 1653:00:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC) 1643:13:23, 25 March 2007 (UTC) 1589:03:43, 14 April 2007 (UTC) 1579:03:02, 14 April 2007 (UTC) 1565:01:16, 14 April 2007 (UTC) 1560:Is that acronym attested? 1556:15:18, 13 April 2007 (UTC) 1543:12:33, 13 April 2007 (UTC) 1485:00:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC) 1432:11:35, 25 March 2007 (UTC) 1399:get to do this instead of 1342:10:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC) 1304:17:09, 24 March 2007 (UTC) 1284:13:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC) 1252:02:40, 24 March 2007 (UTC) 1209:19:02, 23 March 2007 (UTC) 1186:18:52, 23 March 2007 (UTC) 1171:16:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC) 6135:NA-importance CE articles 6113:20:34, 15 June 2011 (UTC) 6095:controlled-access highway 6088:03:46, 15 June 2011 (UTC) 5473:(or something other than 5422:roads called "Expressway" 4880:controlled-access highway 4682:controlled-access highway 4410:would probably end up on 3896:controlled-access highway 3094:Legality Somewhat Defined 2843:14:18, 9 April 2010 (UTC) 2698:15:45, 1 March 2010 (UTC) 2680:06:08, 1 March 2010 (UTC) 2450:article on that topic. -- 2046:blind men and an elephant 1951:22:54, 28 July 2008 (UTC) 1332:that the definition of a 1087:23:02, 5 April 2008 (UTC) 350: 266: 248: 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 6060:21:51, 25 May 2011 (UTC) 5992:05:43, 15 May 2011 (UTC) 5967:01:37, 15 May 2011 (UTC) 5934:13:22, 13 May 2011 (UTC) 5323:near Chicago is part of 4400:agree with above comment 3195:Not to be confused with 3114:12:46, 19 May 2010 (UTC) 3089:11:48, 25 May 2010 (UTC) 3039:22:48, 30 May 2010 (UTC) 2859:09:19, 25 May 2010 (UTC) 1901:20:36, 1 July 2007 (UTC) 1830:03:41, 24 May 2007 (UTC) 1816:07:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC) 1798:11:15, 15 May 2007 (UTC) 1776:08:56, 15 May 2007 (UTC) 1755:Motorways of New Zealand 1697:Autobahns of Switzerland 1405:Motorways of New Zealand 1020:Gage Canadian Dictionary 961:15:58, 21 May 2008 (UTC) 6030:06:27, 1 May 2011 (UTC) 5903:13:57, 1 May 2011 (UTC) 5878:07:35 1 May 2011 (UTC) 5533:A1 road (Great Britain) 5511:names for types of road 5445:roads called "Motorway" 3308:North American freeways 3173:Knowledge:Systemic bias 2117:Speed limits by country 825:Los Angeles, California 543:To the extent that the 5952:Furthermore, the term 5501:and narrower, curvier 4722:arterial thoroughfares 3999:motorways and freeways 2274:almost a month ago. -- 1935:tragedy of the commons 1786:countries as there is 827:article, which is now 627:talk page, as well as 75:avoid personal attacks 5424:, it should be about 4632:dual carriageway road 4264:Pennsylvania Turnpike 3754:The British have the 2609:Freeway-standard road 2341:- the Afrikaans word 2314:or Canadian readers. 2037:editors are fleeing). 1758:Motorways of Pakistan 910:comment was added by 100:Neutral point of view 6130:NA-Class CE articles 5420:should not be about 5232:Expressways of Japan 3773:5 types of roads. - 2914:Limited access roads 2044:, is that we have a 1752:Motorways of Ireland 1707:Autoroutes of France 1694:Autobahns of Germany 1413:Autobahns of Austria 1409:Autobahns of Germany 1110:What does this even 1001:in Canada and Taiwan 381:WikiProject Highways 105:No original research 6067:Fixed-wing aircraft 4734:central reservation 4186:fixed-wing aircraft 3328:High Capacity Roads 1224:fixed-wing aircraft 857:Fixed-wing aircraft 715:fixed-wing aircraft 554:Fixed-wing aircraft 545:freeways themselves 508:, or what have you. 6000:Personal confusion 5949:it makes no sense. 5321:Kennedy Expressway 5289:(Afrikaans/Dutch: 3928:French Equivalent: 3388:control-of-access. 2492:Interstate Highway 2115:We've already got 1006:The word "freeway" 912:Paul from Michigan 629:Talk:Types of road 455:Talk:Types of road 289:Engineering portal 236:content assessment 86:dispute resolution 47: 6026: 5937: 5920:comment added by 5875: 5180: 4878:. I really like 4644: 4643: 4572:British Standards 3316:British motorways 2833:comment added by 2402:comment added by 2377: 2360:comment added by 2130:Move from freeway 1858:and upload it. -- 1353:Football (soccer) 1074: 1062:comment added by 984: 983: 927: 804:User:Ericsaindon2 566:football (soccer) 420: 419: 416: 415: 412: 411: 404:Highways articles 332: 331: 328: 327: 311:Civil engineering 302:Civil engineering 261:Civil engineering 216: 215: 66:Assume good faith 43: 6172: 6102: 6049: 6027: 6022: 6018: 6011: 5981: 5936: 5914: 5892: 5876: 5871: 5867: 5860: 5780: 5760: 5757: 5750: 5745: 5685: 5669: 5666: 5659: 5654: 5595: 5556: 5513:(a good job for 5428:grade separation 5412:, just remember 5394: 5391: 5384: 5379: 5348: 5345: 5338: 5333: 5256: 5210: 5190: 5174: 5162: 5159: 5152: 5147: 5103: 5054: 5051: 5044: 5039: 5011: 4996: 4993: 4986: 4981: 4924: 4806: 4767: 4747:) following the 4562: 4561: 4531: 4492: 4368: 4365: 4358: 4353: 4287: 4284: 4277: 4272: 4218: 4215: 4208: 4203: 4175: 4172: 4167: 4162: 4128: 4108: 4010: 3903: 3859: 3816: 3778: 3720: 3652: 3612:Absolute support 3512: 3453:dual carriageway 3426: 3320:Dual Carriageway 3279:Dual carriageway 3243:Cautious support 3116:M31:::LIKEaMoFo 2845: 2519:Pietermaritzburg 2414: 2376: 2354: 1670: 1574:in this case. -- 1572:ignore that rule 1277: 1202: 1164: 1122:is whatever the 1057: 1042:, is definitely 997:Use of the word 971: 905: 406: 405: 402: 399: 396: 375: 370: 369: 368: 359: 352: 351: 341: 334: 333: 322: 321: 318: 315: 312: 291: 286: 285: 275: 268: 267: 257: 250: 249: 227: 226: 218: 210: 179: 178: 164: 95:Article policies 16: 6180: 6179: 6175: 6174: 6173: 6171: 6170: 6169: 6120: 6119: 6110: 6100: 6057: 6047: 6037: 6021: 6014: 6007: 6002: 5989: 5979: 5915: 5900: 5890: 5870: 5863: 5856: 5788: 5778: 5756: 5753: 5748: 5743: 5740: 5693: 5683: 5665: 5662: 5657: 5652: 5649: 5603: 5593: 5564: 5554: 5432:median barriers 5390: 5387: 5382: 5377: 5374: 5344: 5341: 5336: 5331: 5328: 5264: 5254: 5218: 5208: 5198: 5188: 5158: 5155: 5150: 5145: 5142: 5111: 5101: 5050: 5047: 5042: 5037: 5034: 5019: 5009: 4992: 4989: 4984: 4979: 4976: 4932: 4922: 4882:as the title. – 4814: 4804: 4775: 4765: 4749:First World War 4726:collector roads 4714:traffic signals 4630:Limited access 4556: 4539: 4529: 4500: 4490: 4364: 4361: 4356: 4351: 4348: 4283: 4280: 4275: 4270: 4267: 4238:Royal Air Force 4236:emergency, the 4214: 4211: 4206: 4201: 4198: 4170: 4165: 4160: 4157: 4136: 4126: 4116: 4106: 4018: 4008: 3911: 3901: 3867: 3857: 3824: 3814: 3786: 3776: 3728: 3718: 3660: 3650: 3520: 3510: 3434: 3424: 3314:be merged into 3128:be merged into 3124:I propose that 3122: 3120:Merger proposal 3096: 2828: 2469:internationally 2420: 2397: 2388: 2355: 2170: 2151: 2132: 2098: 2072:At least, with 1931: 1908: 1893: 1842: 1840:Images at night 1668: 1275: 1200: 1162: 1143: 1108: 1022:gives the word 1016: 1003: 969: 906:—The preceding 897: 776: 558:Wright Brothers 425: 403: 400: 397: 394: 393: 371: 366: 364: 319: 316: 313: 310: 309: 287: 280: 212: 211: 206: 121: 116: 115: 114: 91: 61: 12: 11: 5: 6178: 6168: 6167: 6162: 6157: 6152: 6147: 6142: 6137: 6132: 6118: 6117: 6116: 6115: 6108: 6069:(to avoid the 6055: 6036: 6033: 6001: 5998: 5997: 5996: 5995: 5994: 5987: 5970: 5969: 5910: 5909: 5908: 5907: 5906: 5905: 5898: 5812: 5811: 5810: 5809: 5806: 5803: 5794: 5793: 5786: 5769: 5768: 5767: 5766: 5765: 5764: 5754: 5691: 5676: 5675: 5674: 5673: 5663: 5623: 5622: 5621: 5620: 5619: 5618: 5617: 5616: 5615: 5614: 5613: 5612: 5611: 5610: 5609: 5608: 5601: 5562: 5529: 5416:. The article 5388: 5342: 5270: 5269: 5262: 5248: 5247: 5225: 5224: 5223: 5216: 5196: 5171: 5170: 5169: 5168: 5167: 5166: 5156: 5139: 5138: 5137: 5109: 5073: 5058: 5048: 5027: 5026: 5025: 5024: 5017: 5001: 5000: 4990: 4960: 4938: 4937: 4930: 4915: 4914: 4892: 4872: 4871: 4870: 4869: 4849: 4848: 4830: 4829: 4828: 4827: 4826: 4825: 4824: 4823: 4822: 4821: 4820: 4819: 4812: 4784: 4773: 4704:and sometimes 4678: 4677: 4676: 4675: 4674: 4673: 4672: 4671: 4661: 4660: 4659: 4658: 4657: 4656: 4655: 4654: 4642: 4641: 4640: 4639: 4623: 4622: 4621: 4616: 4615: 4614: 4609: 4604: 4592: 4591: 4590: 4589: 4588: 4585: 4575: 4574: 4569: 4566: 4555: 4554:Moving forward 4552: 4551: 4550: 4549: 4548: 4547: 4546: 4545: 4544: 4537: 4498: 4469: 4468: 4450: 4431: 4430: 4429: 4428: 4427: 4426: 4392: 4391: 4374: 4373: 4372: 4362: 4321: 4320: 4319: 4318: 4317: 4316: 4294: 4293: 4292: 4291: 4281: 4254:Actually, the 4222: 4212: 4179: 4150: 4149: 4148: 4147: 4146: 4145: 4144: 4143: 4142: 4141: 4134: 4114: 4093: 4092: 4091: 4090: 4089: 4088: 4087: 4086: 4085: 4084: 4081: 4078: 4065: 4064: 4063: 4062: 4061: 4060: 4059: 4058: 4057: 4056: 4055: 4054: 4051: 4026: 4016: 3973: 3969: 3968: 3967: 3966: 3965: 3960: 3959: 3958: 3953: 3948: 3933: 3909: 3891: 3890: 3889: 3888: 3887: 3886: 3885: 3884: 3883: 3882: 3881: 3880: 3879: 3878: 3877: 3876: 3875: 3874: 3873: 3872: 3865: 3822: 3784: 3726: 3666: 3665: 3658: 3637:specifications 3635:used, and the 3608: 3607: 3606: 3605: 3604: 3603: 3602: 3601: 3540: 3518: 3476: 3475: 3474: 3473: 3472: 3471: 3470: 3469: 3468: 3467: 3445: 3444: 3443: 3442: 3441: 3440: 3439: 3432: 3404: 3403: 3402: 3401: 3400: 3399: 3398: 3397: 3396: 3395: 3394: 3393: 3392: 3391: 3390: 3389: 3300: 3299: 3298: 3297: 3296: 3291: 3286: 3281: 3237: 3236: 3161: 3160: 3159: 3158: 3152: 3144: 3143: 3136:which states: 3121: 3118: 3102: 3095: 3092: 3064: 3063: 3062: 3061: 3060: 3059: 3058: 3057: 3056: 3055: 3054: 3053: 3052: 3051: 3050: 3049: 3048: 3047: 3046: 3045: 3044: 3043: 3042: 3041: 2995: 2994: 2993: 2992: 2991: 2990: 2989: 2988: 2987: 2986: 2985: 2984: 2983: 2982: 2981: 2980: 2979: 2978: 2977: 2976: 2975: 2974: 2973: 2972: 2940: 2939: 2938: 2937: 2936: 2935: 2934: 2933: 2932: 2931: 2930: 2929: 2928: 2927: 2926: 2925: 2924: 2923: 2922: 2921: 2920: 2919: 2918: 2917: 2882: 2881: 2880: 2879: 2878: 2877: 2876: 2875: 2874: 2873: 2872: 2871: 2870: 2869: 2868: 2867: 2866: 2865: 2864: 2863: 2862: 2861: 2835:78.145.139.219 2805: 2804: 2803: 2802: 2801: 2800: 2799: 2798: 2797: 2796: 2795: 2794: 2793: 2792: 2791: 2790: 2789: 2788: 2787: 2786: 2763: 2762: 2761: 2760: 2759: 2758: 2757: 2756: 2755: 2754: 2753: 2752: 2751: 2750: 2749: 2748: 2747: 2746: 2745: 2744: 2717: 2716: 2715: 2714: 2713: 2712: 2711: 2710: 2709: 2708: 2707: 2706: 2705: 2704: 2703: 2702: 2701: 2700: 2667:Jersey barrier 2663: 2640: 2639: 2638: 2637: 2636: 2635: 2634: 2633: 2632: 2631: 2630: 2629: 2628: 2627: 2615:among others. 2541: 2537: 2522: 2419: 2416: 2387: 2384: 2383: 2382: 2381: 2380: 2379: 2378: 2328: 2327: 2326: 2227:Any comments? 2225: 2224: 2220: 2219: 2206: 2205: 2197: 2196: 2169: 2166: 2150: 2147: 2131: 2128: 2127: 2126: 2121:Admiral Norton 2097: 2094: 2093: 2092: 2091: 2090: 2089: 2088: 2070: 2062: 2050: 2038: 2029: 2028: 2027: 2026: 2005: 2004: 2003: 2002: 1966: 1963: 1930: 1927: 1907: 1904: 1892: 1889: 1888: 1887: 1886: 1885: 1884: 1883: 1841: 1838: 1837: 1836: 1835: 1834: 1833: 1832: 1808: 1765: 1764: 1763: 1762: 1759: 1756: 1753: 1750: 1742: 1741: 1740: 1737: 1734: 1726: 1725: 1724: 1721: 1713: 1712: 1711: 1708: 1700: 1699: 1698: 1695: 1682: 1681: 1680: 1679: 1655: 1619: 1618: 1614: 1613: 1612: 1611: 1610: 1609: 1608: 1607: 1606: 1605: 1604: 1603: 1602: 1601: 1600: 1599: 1598: 1597: 1596: 1595: 1594: 1593: 1592: 1591: 1489:The fact that 1466: 1445: 1444: 1443: 1442: 1441: 1440: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1436: 1435: 1434: 1315: 1314: 1313: 1312: 1311: 1310: 1309: 1308: 1307: 1306: 1259: 1258: 1257: 1256: 1255: 1254: 1214: 1213: 1212: 1211: 1189: 1188: 1142: 1139: 1138: 1137: 1107: 1104: 1015: 1012: 1002: 995: 982: 981: 978: 975: 968: 965: 964: 963: 947: 946: 896: 893: 891: 889: 888: 887: 886: 885: 884: 832: 808: 799: 775: 772: 771: 770: 769: 768: 767: 766: 765: 764: 763: 762: 743: 742: 741: 740: 739: 738: 737: 736: 735: 734: 701: 700: 699: 698: 697: 696: 695: 694: 693: 692: 674: 673: 672: 671: 670: 669: 668: 667: 657: 614: 613: 612: 611: 610: 609: 574: 573: 572: 571: 570: 569: 536: 535: 534: 533: 512: 511: 510: 509: 487: 484: 465: 464: 424: 421: 418: 417: 414: 413: 410: 409: 407: 390:the discussion 377: 376: 360: 348: 347: 342: 330: 329: 326: 325: 323: 306:the discussion 293: 292: 276: 264: 263: 258: 246: 245: 239: 228: 214: 213: 204: 202: 201: 198: 197: 181: 180: 118: 117: 113: 112: 107: 102: 93: 92: 90: 89: 82: 77: 68: 62: 60: 59: 48: 39: 38: 35: 34: 28: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 6177: 6166: 6163: 6161: 6158: 6156: 6153: 6151: 6148: 6146: 6143: 6141: 6138: 6136: 6133: 6131: 6128: 6127: 6125: 6114: 6111: 6106: 6104: 6103: 6096: 6091: 6090: 6089: 6085: 6081: 6076: 6072: 6068: 6064: 6063: 6062: 6061: 6058: 6053: 6051: 6050: 6042: 6032: 6031: 6028: 6025: 6019: 6017: 6012: 6010: 5993: 5990: 5985: 5983: 5982: 5974: 5973: 5972: 5971: 5968: 5964: 5960: 5955: 5951: 5950: 5944: 5940: 5939: 5938: 5935: 5931: 5927: 5923: 5919: 5904: 5901: 5896: 5894: 5893: 5885: 5884: 5883: 5882: 5881: 5880: 5879: 5877: 5874: 5868: 5866: 5861: 5859: 5853: 5849: 5845: 5841: 5837: 5833: 5832: 5828: 5824: 5821: 5817: 5807: 5804: 5801: 5800: 5799: 5798: 5797: 5792: 5789: 5784: 5782: 5781: 5774: 5771: 5770: 5763: 5759: 5758: 5751: 5746: 5738: 5737: 5732: 5731: 5725: 5724: 5723: 5719: 5715: 5711: 5707: 5703: 5699: 5698: 5697: 5694: 5689: 5687: 5686: 5678: 5677: 5672: 5668: 5667: 5660: 5655: 5647: 5643: 5642: 5641: 5637: 5633: 5628: 5625: 5624: 5607: 5604: 5599: 5597: 5596: 5588: 5587: 5586: 5582: 5578: 5574: 5570: 5569: 5568: 5565: 5560: 5558: 5557: 5549: 5548: 5547: 5543: 5539: 5534: 5531:If you visit 5530: 5528: 5524: 5520: 5516: 5512: 5508: 5507:types of road 5504: 5500: 5496: 5494: 5488: 5484: 5480: 5476: 5472: 5468: 5464: 5460: 5456: 5455: 5450: 5446: 5442: 5438: 5437: 5433: 5429: 5423: 5419: 5415: 5411: 5410: 5405: 5404: 5399: 5398: 5397: 5393: 5392: 5385: 5380: 5371: 5370: 5369: 5365: 5361: 5357: 5353: 5352: 5351: 5347: 5346: 5339: 5334: 5326: 5325:Interstate 90 5322: 5318: 5317: 5316: 5312: 5308: 5304: 5300: 5296: 5292: 5288: 5287:autosnelwegen 5284: 5279: 5275: 5272: 5271: 5268: 5265: 5260: 5258: 5257: 5250: 5249: 5246: 5242: 5238: 5233: 5229: 5226: 5222: 5219: 5214: 5212: 5211: 5204: 5203: 5202: 5199: 5194: 5192: 5191: 5184: 5178: 5177:edit conflict 5173: 5172: 5165: 5161: 5160: 5153: 5148: 5140: 5136: 5132: 5128: 5124: 5123: 5117: 5116: 5115: 5112: 5107: 5105: 5104: 5097: 5096: 5095: 5091: 5087: 5082: 5078: 5074: 5072: 5068: 5064: 5059: 5057: 5053: 5052: 5045: 5040: 5031: 5030: 5029: 5028: 5023: 5020: 5015: 5013: 5012: 5005: 5004: 5003: 5002: 4999: 4995: 4994: 4987: 4982: 4974: 4970: 4965: 4961: 4959: 4955: 4951: 4947: 4943: 4940: 4939: 4936: 4933: 4928: 4926: 4925: 4917: 4916: 4913: 4909: 4905: 4900: 4896: 4893: 4891: 4888: 4885: 4881: 4877: 4874: 4873: 4868: 4864: 4860: 4859:193.166.71.26 4856: 4853: 4852: 4851: 4850: 4847: 4843: 4839: 4835: 4832: 4831: 4818: 4815: 4810: 4808: 4807: 4800: 4799: 4798: 4794: 4790: 4785: 4781: 4780: 4779: 4776: 4771: 4769: 4768: 4761: 4760: 4759: 4758: 4757: 4756: 4755: 4754: 4753: 4750: 4746: 4741: 4739: 4735: 4731: 4727: 4723: 4719: 4718:intersections 4715: 4711: 4707: 4703: 4699: 4695: 4691: 4687: 4683: 4669: 4668: 4667: 4666: 4665: 4664: 4663: 4662: 4652: 4651: 4650: 4649: 4648: 4647: 4646: 4645: 4637: 4636:traffic lanes 4633: 4629: 4626: 4625: 4624: 4620: 4617: 4613: 4610: 4608: 4605: 4603: 4600: 4599: 4598: 4597: 4596: 4593: 4586: 4582: 4581: 4579: 4578: 4577: 4576: 4573: 4570: 4567: 4564: 4563: 4560: 4543: 4540: 4535: 4533: 4532: 4525: 4524: 4523: 4519: 4515: 4510: 4506: 4505: 4504: 4501: 4496: 4494: 4493: 4486: 4485: 4484: 4480: 4476: 4471: 4470: 4467: 4463: 4459: 4454: 4451: 4449: 4445: 4441: 4436: 4433: 4432: 4425: 4421: 4417: 4413: 4409: 4405: 4404:Talk:Autobahn 4401: 4398: 4397: 4396: 4395: 4394: 4393: 4390: 4386: 4382: 4378: 4375: 4371: 4367: 4366: 4359: 4354: 4346: 4341: 4340: 4339: 4335: 4331: 4326: 4323: 4322: 4315: 4311: 4307: 4303: 4300: 4299: 4298: 4297: 4296: 4295: 4290: 4286: 4285: 4278: 4273: 4265: 4261: 4257: 4253: 4252: 4251: 4247: 4243: 4239: 4234: 4230: 4226: 4223: 4221: 4217: 4216: 4209: 4204: 4195: 4191: 4187: 4183: 4180: 4178: 4174: 4173: 4168: 4163: 4155: 4152: 4151: 4140: 4137: 4132: 4130: 4129: 4122: 4121: 4120: 4117: 4112: 4110: 4109: 4101: 4100: 4099: 4098: 4097: 4096: 4095: 4094: 4082: 4079: 4076: 4075: 4073: 4072: 4071: 4070: 4069: 4068: 4067: 4066: 4052: 4048: 4047: 4045: 4044: 4042: 4041: 4040: 4036: 4032: 4027: 4024: 4023: 4022: 4019: 4014: 4012: 4011: 4004: 4003:WP:COMMONNAME 4000: 3996: 3992: 3987: 3986: 3985: 3981: 3977: 3974: 3970: 3964: 3961: 3957: 3954: 3952: 3949: 3947: 3944: 3943: 3942: 3939: 3938: 3937: 3934: 3932: 3929: 3926: 3925: 3922: 3918: 3917: 3916: 3915: 3912: 3907: 3905: 3904: 3897: 3871: 3868: 3863: 3861: 3860: 3852: 3851: 3850: 3846: 3842: 3838: 3837:Bernard Aboba 3834: 3830: 3829: 3828: 3825: 3820: 3818: 3817: 3810: 3809: 3808: 3804: 3800: 3796: 3792: 3791: 3790: 3787: 3782: 3780: 3779: 3771: 3770: 3769: 3765: 3761: 3757: 3753: 3752: 3751: 3747: 3743: 3739: 3734: 3733: 3732: 3729: 3724: 3722: 3721: 3713: 3710: 3709: 3708: 3704: 3700: 3696: 3692: 3687: 3683: 3682: 3681: 3677: 3673: 3668: 3667: 3664: 3661: 3656: 3654: 3653: 3646: 3642: 3638: 3634: 3630: 3626: 3622: 3618: 3615:articles for 3613: 3610: 3609: 3600: 3596: 3592: 3588: 3583: 3579: 3578: 3577: 3573: 3569: 3565: 3564:closing admin 3561: 3557: 3553: 3549: 3545: 3541: 3539: 3535: 3531: 3526: 3525: 3524: 3521: 3516: 3514: 3513: 3506: 3505: 3504: 3503: 3502: 3501: 3497: 3493: 3489: 3485: 3481: 3466: 3462: 3458: 3454: 3450: 3446: 3438: 3435: 3430: 3428: 3427: 3420: 3419: 3418: 3417: 3416: 3415: 3414: 3413: 3412: 3411: 3410: 3409: 3408: 3407: 3406: 3405: 3386: 3385: 3384: 3380: 3376: 3372: 3371: 3370: 3366: 3362: 3358: 3357: 3356: 3352: 3348: 3343: 3342: 3341: 3337: 3333: 3329: 3325: 3321: 3317: 3313: 3309: 3305: 3301: 3295: 3292: 3290: 3287: 3285: 3282: 3280: 3277: 3276: 3275: 3274: 3272: 3271: 3270: 3266: 3262: 3258: 3257: 3256: 3252: 3248: 3244: 3241: 3240: 3239: 3238: 3235: 3231: 3227: 3222: 3218: 3217: 3216: 3215: 3211: 3207: 3203: 3199: 3198: 3191: 3190: 3186: 3182: 3178: 3174: 3170: 3166: 3157: 3153: 3151: 3148: 3147: 3146: 3145: 3142: 3139: 3138: 3137: 3135: 3131: 3127: 3117: 3115: 3111: 3107: 3106:119.161.71.12 3100: 3091: 3090: 3086: 3082: 3078: 3074: 3070: 3040: 3036: 3032: 3028: 3023: 3019: 3018: 3017: 3016: 3015: 3014: 3013: 3012: 3011: 3010: 3009: 3008: 3007: 3006: 3005: 3004: 3003: 3002: 3001: 3000: 2999: 2998: 2997: 2996: 2969: 2964: 2963: 2962: 2961: 2960: 2959: 2958: 2957: 2956: 2955: 2954: 2953: 2952: 2951: 2950: 2949: 2948: 2947: 2946: 2945: 2944: 2943: 2942: 2941: 2915: 2911: 2906: 2905: 2904: 2903: 2902: 2901: 2900: 2899: 2898: 2897: 2896: 2895: 2894: 2893: 2892: 2891: 2890: 2889: 2888: 2887: 2886: 2885: 2884: 2883: 2860: 2856: 2852: 2847: 2846: 2844: 2840: 2836: 2832: 2825: 2824: 2823: 2822: 2821: 2820: 2819: 2818: 2817: 2816: 2815: 2814: 2813: 2812: 2811: 2810: 2809: 2808: 2807: 2806: 2783: 2782: 2781: 2780: 2779: 2778: 2777: 2776: 2775: 2774: 2773: 2772: 2771: 2770: 2769: 2768: 2767: 2766: 2765: 2764: 2741: 2737: 2736: 2735: 2734: 2733: 2732: 2731: 2730: 2729: 2728: 2727: 2726: 2725: 2724: 2723: 2722: 2721: 2720: 2719: 2718: 2699: 2695: 2691: 2686: 2683: 2682: 2681: 2677: 2673: 2668: 2664: 2660: 2656: 2655: 2654: 2653: 2652: 2651: 2650: 2649: 2648: 2647: 2646: 2645: 2644: 2643: 2642: 2641: 2626: 2622: 2618: 2614: 2610: 2606: 2602: 2598: 2593: 2592: 2591: 2587: 2583: 2579: 2574: 2573: 2572: 2568: 2564: 2560: 2556: 2555: 2554: 2550: 2546: 2542: 2538: 2535: 2532:(French) and 2531: 2527: 2523: 2520: 2516: 2512: 2508: 2507: 2506: 2502: 2498: 2493: 2488: 2484: 2483: 2482: 2478: 2474: 2470: 2466: 2462: 2461: 2460: 2457: 2453: 2448: 2447: 2446: 2445: 2441: 2437: 2433: 2429: 2425: 2415: 2413: 2409: 2405: 2404:71.92.244.253 2401: 2394: 2391: 2375: 2371: 2367: 2363: 2359: 2352: 2348: 2344: 2340: 2336: 2332: 2329: 2325: 2321: 2317: 2312: 2308: 2307:authoritative 2304: 2303: 2302: 2299: 2295: 2291: 2287: 2286: 2285: 2281: 2277: 2273: 2272:Talk:Motorway 2268: 2264: 2259: 2258: 2257: 2253: 2249: 2245: 2241: 2240: 2239: 2238: 2234: 2230: 2222: 2221: 2217: 2213: 2208: 2207: 2203: 2199: 2198: 2194: 2193: 2192: 2189: 2185: 2183: 2179: 2175: 2165: 2164: 2160: 2156: 2146: 2145: 2141: 2137: 2125: 2122: 2118: 2114: 2113: 2112: 2111: 2107: 2103: 2087: 2083: 2079: 2075: 2071: 2067: 2063: 2060: 2055: 2051: 2047: 2043: 2039: 2035: 2034: 2033: 2032: 2031: 2030: 2025: 2021: 2017: 2013: 2009: 2008: 2007: 2006: 2001: 1997: 1993: 1989: 1985: 1984: 1983: 1979: 1975: 1971: 1967: 1964: 1962:encyclopedia. 1960: 1955: 1954: 1953: 1952: 1948: 1944: 1940: 1936: 1926: 1925: 1921: 1917: 1911: 1903: 1902: 1899: 1891:Image gallery 1882: 1879: 1875: 1874: 1873: 1870: 1866: 1865: 1864: 1861: 1857: 1854: 1853: 1852: 1851: 1848: 1831: 1828: 1824: 1819: 1818: 1817: 1814: 1809: 1805: 1801: 1800: 1799: 1796: 1792: 1789: 1785: 1780: 1779: 1778: 1777: 1774: 1770: 1769:Types of road 1760: 1757: 1754: 1751: 1748: 1747: 1746: 1743: 1738: 1735: 1732: 1731: 1730: 1727: 1722: 1719: 1718: 1717: 1714: 1709: 1706: 1705: 1704: 1701: 1696: 1693: 1692: 1691: 1688: 1687: 1686: 1678: 1675: 1674: 1667: 1666: 1661: 1660:Types of road 1656: 1654: 1651: 1646: 1645: 1644: 1641: 1637: 1633: 1629: 1625: 1621: 1620: 1616: 1615: 1590: 1587: 1582: 1581: 1580: 1577: 1573: 1568: 1567: 1566: 1563: 1559: 1558: 1557: 1554: 1550: 1546: 1545: 1544: 1541: 1537: 1533: 1528: 1524: 1520: 1516: 1512: 1508: 1504: 1500: 1496: 1492: 1488: 1487: 1486: 1483: 1479: 1478:Types of road 1475: 1471: 1467: 1464: 1459: 1458: 1457: 1456: 1455: 1454: 1453: 1452: 1451: 1450: 1449: 1448: 1447: 1446: 1433: 1430: 1426: 1422: 1418: 1414: 1410: 1406: 1402: 1398: 1394: 1390: 1386: 1382: 1378: 1374: 1370: 1366: 1362: 1358: 1354: 1349: 1345: 1344: 1343: 1340: 1335: 1330: 1325: 1324: 1323: 1322: 1321: 1320: 1319: 1318: 1317: 1316: 1305: 1302: 1297: 1292: 1287: 1286: 1285: 1282: 1281: 1274: 1273: 1267: 1266: 1265: 1264: 1263: 1262: 1261: 1260: 1253: 1250: 1245: 1241: 1237: 1233: 1229: 1225: 1220: 1219: 1218: 1217: 1216: 1215: 1210: 1207: 1206: 1199: 1198: 1193: 1192: 1191: 1190: 1187: 1184: 1179: 1178:Types of road 1175: 1174: 1173: 1172: 1169: 1168: 1161: 1160: 1155: 1153: 1152:Types of road 1147: 1135: 1134: 1133: 1132: 1129: 1125: 1121: 1117: 1113: 1103: 1102: 1098: 1094: 1089: 1088: 1084: 1080: 1079:156.34.38.163 1075: 1073: 1069: 1065: 1061: 1053: 1052: 1049: 1045: 1041: 1037: 1033: 1029: 1025: 1021: 1011: 1010: 1007: 1000: 994: 993: 990: 979: 976: 973: 972: 962: 958: 954: 949: 948: 945: 942: 938: 934: 930: 929: 928: 925: 921: 917: 913: 909: 901: 892: 883: 880: 876: 871: 870: 869: 866: 862: 858: 854: 850: 846: 845: 844: 841: 837: 836:Types of road 833: 830: 826: 821: 817: 813: 809: 805: 800: 796: 792: 791: 790: 789: 786: 782: 761: 758: 753: 752: 751: 750: 749: 748: 747: 746: 745: 744: 732: 728: 724: 720: 716: 711: 710: 709: 708: 707: 706: 705: 704: 703: 702: 689: 684: 683: 682: 681: 680: 679: 678: 677: 676: 675: 666: 663: 658: 655: 654:Types of road 650: 646: 642: 638: 634: 630: 626: 622: 621: 620: 619: 618: 617: 616: 615: 608: 605: 600: 596: 592: 588: 584: 580: 579: 578: 577: 576: 575: 567: 563: 559: 555: 550: 546: 542: 541: 540: 539: 538: 537: 532: 529: 524: 523: 522: 519: 514: 513: 507: 503: 498: 497: 492: 488: 485: 482: 478: 474: 473: 471: 467: 466: 463: 460: 456: 452: 448: 447: 446: 445: 442: 436: 434: 430: 408: 391: 387: 383: 382: 374: 363: 361: 358: 354: 353: 349: 346: 343: 340: 336: 335: 324: 307: 303: 299: 298: 290: 284: 279: 277: 274: 270: 269: 265: 262: 259: 256: 252: 251: 247: 243: 237: 233: 229: 225: 220: 219: 200: 199: 196: 192: 189: 187: 183: 182: 177: 173: 170: 167: 163: 159: 155: 152: 149: 146: 143: 140: 137: 134: 131: 127: 124: 123:Find sources: 120: 119: 111: 110:Verifiability 108: 106: 103: 101: 98: 97: 96: 87: 83: 81: 78: 76: 72: 69: 67: 64: 63: 57: 53: 52:Learn to edit 49: 46: 41: 40: 37: 36: 32: 26: 22: 18: 17: 6098: 6094: 6045: 6038: 6023: 6015: 6008: 6003: 5977: 5953: 5948: 5947: 5942: 5911: 5888: 5872: 5864: 5857: 5843: 5835: 5834: 5815: 5813: 5795: 5776: 5772: 5741: 5734: 5728: 5709: 5705: 5681: 5650: 5626: 5591: 5552: 5510: 5506: 5497:encompasses 5492: 5482: 5478: 5474: 5470: 5466: 5453: 5444: 5425: 5421: 5407: 5401: 5375: 5355: 5329: 5302: 5298: 5294: 5290: 5286: 5282: 5277: 5274:Expressways: 5273: 5252: 5227: 5206: 5186: 5182: 5143: 5119: 5099: 5035: 5007: 4977: 4963: 4941: 4920: 4894: 4879: 4875: 4854: 4833: 4802: 4763: 4745:Dual Highway 4744: 4742: 4705: 4701: 4697: 4693: 4689: 4685: 4681: 4679: 4635: 4631: 4627: 4618: 4611: 4606: 4601: 4594: 4557: 4527: 4509:special road 4508: 4488: 4452: 4434: 4399: 4376: 4349: 4324: 4301: 4268: 4259: 4255: 4232: 4228: 4224: 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