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invented by this page) as the page is full of individuels who were the first leader of their country but who either had no hand in it's creation, aren't treated as the founder of their nation by the nation's people or both. I am looking to go through the page and remove any entry that is either A- Unsourced or B- Sourced but with sources that don't mention "national founder" or an equivalent term.
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PM of India), 13 out of 16 state representatives voted for Patel. On Gandhi's insistence, Patel stepped aside for Nehru to take the post. Patel is widely known as the 'Iron Man of India' and was second only to Nehru in post-independence politics. He is credited to have revamped the All India
Services.--
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Better and more useful, I think, to recast and rename this article to something like List of national governments by country with a list of countries, a sub-list of zero or more national names, and one or more {sub-)sub-lists of government names -- each of those government lists possibly being linked
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Sardar
Vallabhai Patel was the first Deputy Prime Minister of India and is credited for the accession of 565 princely/autonomous states to India in 1947, who were given the choice of independence, or accession to India or Pakistan. In the 1946 election for Congress Presidency(and thus for the future
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This article has turned into one of those articles where people can play around and throw in personal opinion that is loosely related to the title. The first president is not necessarily a county's founding father, for example. Some places simply don't have a distinct founding father/s, so don't try
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Evidently no less than George H. Nash claims that the term was coined by Warren
Harding and used for "American" founding fathers. The links that use founding fathers here don't appear to be that scholarly. It is a formal term and a formal term associated with the development of the US which is why
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I might add that's why I came here...I've never even heard it used outside of the US before with a few South
American exceptions. Is this actually native usage or a really weird attempt at cultural neutrality? The examples of European "foudning fathers" seems like more than a stretch. If you want
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I have not found a citation that calls him a founding father, like in the cases of Gandhi, Nehru & Ambedkar, but then 'founding father' is an
American concept and has no real relevance in the Indian Movement. Also, the other citations are really epithets given by a western journal(for Gandhi
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There is a redirect to the page on US founding fathers, and it is a common term for other countries to adopt (although in some cases it is the same meaning but with different terms - "father of the nation" or "fathers of confederation" for example). It is a term often used in reference to those of
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I have added in Jose Rizal from the
Philippines. He is not a founder of the country per se but he was instrumental in its founding and is the official "National Hero" of the Philippines and part of the Philippine Revolution generation. Further, nearly every town plaza has a statue of him. The
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Every
Russian knows that. One of the "founding fathers" here cited (Peter the Great) is credited with "opening a window" to Europe due to his travels there and his ensuing attempts to bring some of the European customs over to Russia. I'm putting it under "Eurasia" which is where it in fact is.
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and in the subcontinent's politics had already waned. Gandhi was not instrumental in creating the structure of the modern Indian republic. He was not a member of the
Constituent Assembly and neither did he hold any official post in independent India. Further, the model of the Indian nation that
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I mentioned this in another section but I'm making a proper section for it. This page has a lot of original research in it, most likely from someone who didn't understand what a national founder was (Somewhat understandable given that the term "national founder" seems to have been for or less
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Is there any way that the portraits could be made a uniform size that is preferably smaller? Otherwise it seems to be giving more importance to some leaders and not others. While I won't argue with the fact that both Gandhi and AtaĂĽrk are awesome, there's no reason for them to be given larger
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The Lahore
Resolution and the Two Nation Theory did not envisage Pakistan as an Islamic state. Those who wanted an Islamic state were opposed to Jinnah. Also you ought to update yourself on your information. Pakistan had an interim constitution: Government of India Act, 1935 adapted as the
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Gandhi envisaged was discarded in favour of the
Nehruvian model of socio-economic development. The reason why Gandhi is called the Father of the Nation in India is because of the popular and affectionate epithet "Bapu" that he earned from the people of the country, which informally means
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with a list of countries, a sub-list of zero or more national names, and one or more {sub-)sub-lists of government names -- each of those government lists possibly being linked to a WP article and such articles possibly having info about the founders of each of those governments.
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Correction: Jinnah did not give Pakistan a constitution, Pakistan had no constitution while he was alive. Also, Paksitan was founded as an Islamic state as according to the TWO NATION THEORY, regardless of the fact that Jinnah in his private life was a secular person.
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as a named social entity that may govern zero or more countries over definable time ranges. The character and/or naming details of such governments may change from one governmental time period to the next, with a different list of founders for each such change (e.g.,
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is sometimes referred to as "father of the nationhood," but to call him "fathers" is to stretch the definition a bit too much. Other monarchs have been instrumental in Portugal's independence throughout the years, but they are not known collectively by any name.
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Minority viewpoint in the US maybe, not in those countries listed though. That's why they're on there. You could dispute a few but on the whole I'd cosndier it POV to just have the US. This is after all a list of states, the US FFs have their own page too.-
1026:? While it does seem that they were mostly men, wouldn't it be more enclopedic to say: "List of national founders"? I propose that we make that change. Any concerns? Assuming that there are no major objections, I will make the change on January 6, 2009.
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and others. This title is so vague the article can only ever be a list of names with some sort of link to a country. Shouldn't we first define more accurately what we mean by 'founder' of a country? Or even what constitutes a country's foundation?
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Although the modern state of Israel is different from the ancient one, they are still in some way descended from the multiple ancient patriarchs of biblical history. Who would be listed, whether it would be Abraham or Jacob or Moses, I don't know.
1041:"Fathers" encompasses both men and women. It would not be more encyclopedic to change it, but just more of the PC bullcrap that the world is more and more filled with today. Same logic why it is now a sin to use "chairman" and "anchorman"
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This page has only got more out of hand since 2022, if I can get some support I'll go through the page and remove any unsourced content and any item who isn't reffered to as a "National Father" or some variation in citations.
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I'm starting off by removing entries which don't meet the criteria set up in the lead in any regard. (Those that list when ancient people first settled a place and those that just list the first European to map an area)
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the European Union, in fact in most countries it seems to be a tool of nationalism as it has now become one of the most have symbols. Most are cited though so you can check out the sources for what terms etc are used. -
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And what in heaven's name is Mário Soares doing in the founding fathers of the European Union? What did he do, except sign Portugal into the Community in 1986? And wouldn't any other prime-minister do the same thing?
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That is messy, and would lead to a long and complicated list of lists of founders for many nations (or countries, or whatever). Better and more useful, I think, to recast and rename this article to something like
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I added Winston Churchill to the list of European founding fathers, and I renamed it from "Europe" to "European Union" to clarify. Churchill on many occasions spoke of the need for a "United States of Europe".
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The national founder of the modern Sudanese state was not Ibrahim Abboud. Sudan does not have a national founder. The closest thing we have to a national founder could be Azhari, Ahmed, Mahgoub or the Mahdi.
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The Pakistan Jinnah founded was not a constitutionally defined Islamic state. It was a state based modelled on British lines with a British constitution and where there was a separation of church and state.
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Portugal has no such thing as "founding fathers." The example given is that of a count whose son became a king - singular, so in any case the country would have a single "founding father." In fact,
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wrote in 2010 that "any attempt to find a clear definition of a country soon runs into a thicket of exceptions and anomalies." Most sovereign states, but not all countries, are members of the
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Given scholarly usage and the fact that this is a minority viewpoint in the language at large and, oddly enough, only in English, wouldn't this constitute a minority opinion per NPOV?
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Scholarly or not it has begun to be used commonly in other states, or at least its meaning. Do you have an alternative term to use that will convey the same thing to the reader?-
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Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Knowledge, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (
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Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Knowledge, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (
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Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Knowledge, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (
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Speedy deletions at commons tend to take longer than they do on Knowledge, so there is no rush to respond. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (
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as a geographical area identifiable by name over some time period with borders that may change during that time period (there are many examples of that), and a
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For one thing, the American founders are known as the "founding fathers." Turning it PC because people find reasons to get upset is very unencyclopedic.
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There should be section on Nyerere as the founding father of Tanzania. Within Tanzania, he is known as Baba wa Taifa, or Father of the Nation.
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What does " Adolf Hitler hold the state of Germany during the WWII" mean. This should surely either be edited to make sense, or removed.
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I put the USA on the top of the example list; most people looking for "founding fathers" would mean "founding fathers of the USA" anyway.
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is mentioned under the founding fathers of the Republic of India. By the time India attained independence, Gandhi's influence within the
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and the governments that preceded and succeeded it), with each government or series of governments having a unique set of founders.
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I agree. This has become a list where whoever wants to promotes some idea or someone pushes them in, it needs a big culling.
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The article would still refer to the American "Founding Fathers" because that is the most common way of referring to them.
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it can be used without a modifier and in plural form, "the Founding Fathers" in the US where it can't be elsewhere.
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Would it be better to put it under Asia instead? Most of the Russian Federation's territory is in Asia after all. –
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Oh yeah, I'm registered, but something on the log-in page fails on my browser (Opera). My username is leokennis...
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I can't really see a reason why Azerbaijan should be included in the Europe category, so I'm moving it to Asia.--
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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has no official founding father. Many people are informally termed founding fathers, as the article discusses.
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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Why not include scholarly or scientific fields. With the current contents I propose to rename the article to
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I have yet to see a single woman on this list. So there were no ladies involved in the founding of nations?
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portraits (the same with the others). It also makes loading times slower for people with bad connections.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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to a WP article and such articles possibly having info about the founders of each of those governments.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120324133930/http://www.diputados.gob.mx/cedia/sia/re/RE-ISS-04-08-01.pdf
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090307050237/http://library.thinkquest.org/TQ0312582/unification.html
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Pakistani Constitution. Jinnah wanted to give Pakistan a secular constitution, it is well known.
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Anyone else have a problem with the current name of this list: "List of national founding
880:
Unless this is expanded more on the topics of founding fathers, this ought to be renamed "
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2080:. That term, IMO, is closer to what is intended here, but still needs clarification. The
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concept of National Hero is close enough to a Founding Father to be included I think. --
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defines nations as cultural-political communities that have become conscious of their
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The definition and usage of the word "country" is flexible and has changed over time.
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
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to run to weird foundational arguments I didn't even see mention of Charlemagne :)
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does not inherently convey a particular viewpoint, political agenda or ideal."
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While Pakistan later became an islamic republic... that was after his death.
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That's the reason "nationa" was added in the title. Says the same thing.-
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is confusing. The final two paragraphs of the lead section of the
1157:(in small quantities) as much as the next guy, but I've requested
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http://www.historyofarmenia.am/images/menus/941/aram_manukyan.pdf
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File:Abdul Hamid Khan Bhashani.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion
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Although he also said that Britain should not be part of that
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as defined in the Knowledge article does not apply to Gandhi.
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http://www.diputados.gob.mx/cedia/sia/re/RE-ISS-04-08-01.pdf
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Mid-importance biography (politics and government) articles
2229:"Nationalism: What We Know and What We Still Need to Know"
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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http://library.thinkquest.org/TQ0312582/unification.html
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List-Class biography (politics and government) articles
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Should this article be renamed and/or better defined?
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597:So this is the origins of this Eurasia thing.
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998:and Nehru) and an alma mater(for Ambedkar)
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2283:Repeating a suggestion I made above:
2246:10.1146/annurev-polisci-041719-101841
2227:Mylonas, Harris; Tudor, Maya (2021).
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2197:Smith, Anthony D. (8 January 1991).
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506:WikiProject Leaders by year
103:Knowledge:WikiProject Lists
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1975:08:22, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
1833:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1759:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1713:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1643:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1523:for the following reason:
1458:for the following reason:
1393:for the following reason:
1328:for the following reason:
1263:for the following reason:
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976:Addition of Patel to India
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956:Philippines and Jose Rizal
931:14:41, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
871:11:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
853:Portugal has no such thing
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784:21:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
457:project's importance scale
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106:Template:WikiProject Lists
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1954:08:50, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
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1764:List of national founders
1648:List of national founders
1566:Founding fathers of India
1557:04:52, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
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2068:. The most populous is
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157:Politics and Government
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309:WikiProject Politics
1804:After February 2018
1684:After February 2018
612:What Islamic state?
414:WikiProject History
2160:"In quite a state"
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2147:References
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774:Anyone???
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1848:this tool
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1602:Dmajumder
824:Walshicus
212:Biography
152:Biography
2177:Archived
2092:autonomy
1940:, and I
1854:Cheers.—
1734:Cheers.—
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1024:fathers
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910:Andries
887:J Logan
882:List of
792:J Logan
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686:J Logan
455:on the
428:History
419:History
375:History
350:on the
127:on the
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