Talk:Târgu Mureș/Archive 1

2315:

circumstances in which the rules do not apply (i.e. in the case of the name Alecsandri, which by the rules should be Alexandri, only it's not). Another important aspect is that it's not possible (in theory, in legal theory) for laws to contradict each other. The Academy has power to regulate the Romanian Language BY LAW (not by the grace of god, trust of the people, wizardry or alien intervention). So if there is another law which says that the correct name of the city is Tîrgu Mureş, than this can only mean that while the rule is to write with â, in the case of Tîrgu Mureş an exception exists and it's written with î, just as for Alecsandri while the rule is to write it with x, and exception exists in his case and it's written with cs. But so far no one responded to this argument, that the rulings of the Academy do not necessarily mean that exceptions to the rule can't exist (they can, as proven), especially if said exceptions are codified by law, and especially since the only place the Academy gets its powet to regulate is the law. So far everyone supporting writing with â has only used straw man arguments and it's been tried to allege that our argument is that there are private individuals that choose to disregard the Academy's rulings. While it is indeed true that such individuals do exist, that's not our argument. Our argument hasn't been answered. So, if no one answers it in a week's time I'll change the name to Tîrgu Mureş (its correct legal name) and I'll keep doing so untill my arguments cease being ignored. It's not a common noun people, it's a LEGAL NAME! One can even name a child Adriean for instance despite the fact it's gramatically wrong.

449:"Ceausescu bringing in migrants from outside Transsylvania, in order to dillute the Hungarian minority" is a well known urban legend in Transsylvania, perpetrated by Hungarian extremists and belived generally by illiterate Hungarians. Of course, during the last 90 years, 550.000 Romanians from South and East settled in Transsylvania and 250.000 Romanians from Transsylvania settled in South and East Romania. The balance (difference) of abb. 300.000 results in a migratory increase of 4% of the populatiaon of Transsylvania. The explication is simple: Transsylvania has a population density of 69 inhabitants per square km and large mineral ressources, many industrial job opportunities, etc. The South Eastern regions of Romania have a population density of 107 inhabitants per square km and fewer oportunities for industrial employment. Internal, economical motivated migrations within a country are common place in the world: Rheinland in Germany, Manchester and Glasgow areas in UK, Florida, California, Alaska and Texas in US, Provence in France, Northen Italy, etc, etc. 2346:

consensus is not really a consensus after all. I know about about not flogging a dead horse, but this horse ain't dead at all trust me. Look if the city hall calls this city "Tirgu Mures" why are we insisting that the name IS "Targu Mures"? I mean, yeah, according to the grammatical rules that's what the name SHOULD be, but obviously we're dealing with an exception here since the city hall itself calls it "Tirgu". Maybe we'd LIKE it to be "Targu" maybe we think it OUGHT TO be "Targu", but the fact is that currently, despite the rule, its name is "Tirgu". Does anyone to state here that there can be no such thing as exceptions to spelling rules in Romanian (see the "Alecsandri" exception for that). Look, we all know that by the rules it should have been "Targu". Only it's not -- this is not a common noun it's a legal name and it's "Tirgu"; just look on the plates at the city hall.

1991:"Nu este vorba de cîrcoteală, ci de pura realitate (părerea mea e că faptul că numele oficial este ÎNCĂ Tîrgu Mureş este o informaţie utilă de trecut în Wiki). Oricine are un BI/CI de Tîrgu Mureş, vă poate confirma. Orice schimbare a denumirii unei localităţi se validează (conform legii) NUMAI în momentul în care apare în Monitorul Oficial (de altfel acest lucru este valabil pentru orice lege, nu numai pentru aceasta). De exemplu, numele Târnăveni este corect deoarece oraşul s-a ridicat la rang de municipiu şi atunci s-a publicat noul nume în Monitorul Oficial. Nimeni nu se înghesuie să facă shimbarea de nume pentru că acest lucru implică o groază de cheltuieli (schimbarea ştampilelor, a formularelor, a "firmelor" şamd). Aşa e cînd se votează legi fără ca nimeni să gîndească la consecinţe. 418:

record, the funny thing is that Targu Mures is in the traditional Szekely Land, although in a sense it is on the brink of that region. So I agree that this process was generally a natural one, but in the case of TM, there were some manipulations, so I heard, like many workers were actually moved in from the Old Kingdom. But of course I can't prove it. And also, if you look at Miercurea Ciuc, pre-1920 it was something like 95% Hungarian, and now it's only 80%, although it is in the middle of a compact area. So, in short, the main reason was really this natural phenomenon you referred to, but probably there were some manipulations as well. But anyway, I'm fine with the formulation at the end of paragraph 5.--

1719: 217:

name requires the approval from the Ministry of the Interior. There is no hyphen in it. There is no "â" in it. Tell me, your name changes when there is a change in the orthography? You are contributing to this article and you even don't know the correct name. The example with "Târgu-Neamţ" is also incorrect. Those who hold a birth certificate or a driving license from Tîrgu Mureş, can confirm that the name is written like this: Tîrgu Mureş, even after 1989. So PLEASE stop playing with the name of the city.

31: 2021:

texts that use "â" in all cases applicable, including in "Târgu Mureş" (their nature, btw, overrides the local inconsistencies). What you have managed to bring up so far is, as I have stressed before, the notion that not all the people who write Romanian write it according to academic rules (the situation is by no means new or unparalleled). Leaving aside your deduction, which is well-intentioned but spurious, I have to point out that this project

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counties where the nobility lived. On the one hand, I agree that mediaeval history may contain information which may not seem relevant for some people but this belongs to the nature of the history of a far-away county seat, on the other hand, the same applies for the period spent by Avram Iancu is the city as an assistant lawyer. However, I suggest editor colleagues Dahn and Biruitorul to add preferably that Avram Iancu lived in the city

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Alexandri, Adrian Videanu and Klaus Johannis. Indeed I would ask all interested to carefully review my argumentation and in some way address it. If the issue is in anyway addressed I'll drop it. But till now everyone seems to argue only about WHAT the correct spelling is. Ok, we know what the spelling is but the argument is that the spelling rule is irrelevant since this is a legal name and thus an exception.

2139:

rule due to some technicality. It is not the city's responsibility or privilege to regulate Romanian language, just as it is not its responsibility or privilege to regulate Hungarian or Chinese. I would find it exceptionally weird if that would be the case, and I have provided you official documents which designate the city with an "â", without ifs and buts. As for the mayor's office, it apparently uses

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there, couple that with the romanian speaking people (because most locals didn't speak romanian) brought into local administration by the communist regime, and take into account the fact that the city had a rather small population, and I think you'll be able to account for the most part of the missing percents (not all). In any case, since you've already agreed i removed that sentence.

1269:(Kosovo, Serbia). As editors from these two projects are the main contributors, I do not see any reason why you are so upset. Moreover, sorry to say, it was you who started this controversy by deleting the Hungary tag. However, I would personally be most happy if i was invited to particpate in wikiproject Romania (as one of the most active contributors to places in present-day Romania. 770:

but it may also be expected from editors Dahn and Biruitorul not to delete information which, the same way, may be important for Hungarian readers or for those who happen to be interested in Marosvásárhely’s history or (also) regard the city as a place playing an important role in the history of Hungarians (too) and which has a large Hungarian community even in these days (too).

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for legal resons. Because Tîrgu Mureş is the official name of the city and thus the only correct name. The whole idea of the Romanian Academy having the power of regulating Romanian language rests on the concept that said power was given to it by the LAW. So the lawful official names of cities DOES very much constitute an exception even to the Academy's rules.

1283:- It was tagged as a Hungary project which is obviously wrong. What controversy is there about this? Can you explain it please? As I said, Wikiprojects are categorized by their country location and not by history. Using the "history logic" we can put in whole Eastern Europe that one was a part of Ottoman Empire as a Ottoman wiki project? It has no sense. 1748:- This was discussed several times. According to the orthographic change from 1993, the "î" if occurs in the middle of one word should be replaced by "â". The pronunciation remains the same. Since then, the name of the city changed from "Tîrgu Mureş" to "Târgu Mureș". Also google hits shows that Târgu Mureș is used much more often ( - Târgu Mureș, ) 1980:În mod oficial, denumirea care prin lege a apărut în nomenclatorul localităţilor este ,,Tîrgu-Mureş". Aceasta nu a fost încă înlocuită printr-un alt act normativ, însă prin modificările gramaticale operate de Academia Română, este utilizată tot mai des denumirea ,,Târgu-Mureş". Aceasta nu a fost încă validată printr-o lege. 2314:

Also, you are alleging that people who assert that it's Tîrgu Mureş are only contending that there are people that write it that way despite the Academy's rulings. That's false and a straw man's argument. The argument here is that the Academy regulates the spelling ordinarily, while there are special

2234:

Erm. If this is what is discussed here: "known in Thai as Krung Thep Maha Nakhon or Krung Thep etc.". You say: "That city has also 1 official name ... also in thai 1 .. and another which is the shortest version". If that is supposed to indicate that "there are no two names", but that it is acceptable

839:

7.) .he district-names are given in the Hungarian language as well. As approximately Hungarians make up nearly half of the population of the city 'officially bilingual' according to the unreverted part of the article this seems fair, reasonable and informative. The map added is of better quality than

815:

5.5. The Old City Hall and Cultural Palace were not actually built in Transylvanian Secession Style for two reasons: - secession is usually referred to as Art Nouveau in English (see Knowledge article;) - their architects were not ‘Transylvanian’ architects but happened to be from Hungary, and worked

216:

You have no idea what is the official name of the city. You are just playing with the name. The official name of the city is Tîrgu Mureş. You can't change it just because the Romanian orthography changed. The name of a city can be changed only by the government's decision. Even a change in a person's

160:

Hi. I noticed that Jmabel moved the page from Târgu Mureş to Târgu-Mureş. Is there any reason for this? The town is often written with the hyphen, but often also without. I don't object to the move, I just think that the hyphenated form may be less common (and stylistically, it is quite questionable,

2294:

No, no, no. Just as we write Alecsandri and not Alexandri due to legal reasons (i.e. that was the guy's legal name), despite the fact that Academic rules of corect spelling stipulate that the "cs" sound should be written "x" in all contexts, we should definitely write Tîrgu Mureş and not Târgu Mureş

2127:

You don't have to be an academician to figure it out in which city do you live. So this story about academic rules does not matter.. the fact is that I live in Tirgu Mures according to all my official acts .. and what i already said .. And what do you say to the mayor's office? They are also wrong?

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is misleading as (i) Vásárhely mean Marketplace and not Market and (ii) the name Târgu Mureş is used only from the 20th century. Respecting other peoples work, I did not delete it, however editor colleagues Dahn and Biruitorul who are familiar with the Romanian language might explain the history of

631:

Leaving aside the issue of this particular lead, here are the rules I use in my attempt for "a formula satisfying all communities" when using place names in articles that are different in different languages, and may be for places that are in different territories than they once were (e.g. Romanian,

612:

Romanians are not barred from improving any Transylvania related or other article, if they have construtive additons ( other than reference to current political / territorial arramgements, and dominant ethnic position ). We have a lot of examples for good contributions. In sensitive cases, like this

590:

You've got to be kidding me. Can you tell me why all the names in this article are in Hungarian and then translated into Romanian? This is Romanian. there is only one name of any given city/town/region, etc. One can translate that into any other language if one wants to. This is a Romanian teritory.

426:

According to the 1992 census there were 51.66% ethnic Hungarians in Targu-Mures, yet in 2002 that percent dropped to 46.68 (in just 10 years hmm), do you suppose that this is also the result of some governmental scheme? Regarding Miercurea Ciuc, if I remember correctly a military garrison was formed

2203:

What this means is that the language has two spellings, both of which can be used officially, only one of which is academic. The quirk in legal procedures adds nothing to this debate, since academic norms are prioritized in spelling every place name in central official documents, and since the fact

625:

I don't understand the original point being made here because it is in Romanian and, er, this is the English Knowledge that requires that talk etc. be conducted in English. The gist of it that I get is concern over whether non-Romanian names should appear in this article (and others), and if so how

452:

A the statistical archives revealed, most of the incoming Romanians settled in cities whitout Hungarian majorities and found employment in industry. Moreover, there is no trace of communist involvment in the migratory trend which started in fact long before communism (during the inter-wars period).

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Also, it would need a bit of clarification on the origin of those Romanian people: In early 20th century, in most regions of Transylvania (with the notable exception of the Szekely land), Romanians had a majority in rural areas, while the Hungarians in the cities. With the industrialization, cities

2386:, toponyms are an exception to the rule, and the change does not apply to them. And even if the Academy said it did, toponyms may only be changed by government ruling, and that has not happened. So, until it does, *in accordance* with the 1993 change and not against it, the name is spelled with î. 2349:

Knowledge's role isn't to advise local governments on what the correct spelling of a name SHOULD be, it's to accurately report what the name actually is, even if said name violates spelling rules. And in the current state the article does not reflect factual reality, it only reflects what we think

2138:

The above does not strike me as a logical argument. The rules I mention apply to the Romanian language as a whole, and "Târgu" is a word in that language (as is "Târgu Mureş" a name in that language). You say it is weird that they should apply to a city who, you contend, has not adopted the single

2020:

Elmao, please don't mix criteria. For starters, in order for your theory to stand, you would need to find a text using "î" in "Tîrgu Mureş", but "â" in all other words (with the academic exceptions I'm sure you are familiar with - composite words et al). Secondly, I have provided you with official

1491:

Other than to push for the alternative name to be more visible in font size (which is not according to other examples and no constructive purpose at all), what motive there is for a name, any name to present as a problem when under "other name" when the reader can`t see/know this difference except

785:. As the first mention of the city’s Hungarian form is from only a couple of years later than the Latin form, it seems worth mentioning it. More than that, the Hungarian word „vásárhely” is the main part of the name and was also used by the Romanian population as ‘Osorhei’ until the 20th century. 769:

Whether a piece of information is useful or not is largely dependant on someone’s cultural affiliations. As a respect for Romanian readers and those who are interested in Târgu Mureş as a Romanian city, I did not delete any information related to Romanian aspects of the city’s history or present,

475:

If you write something in all caps, it does not make it true. Look at historical records and you can see the Romanian population of the city at just a few hundred at the beginning of the 20th century. Yes, it's true that most of them came from Romanian villages in Transylvania, but it's also true,

2454:

Once a Names or Etymology section or paragraph is created, the alternative English or foreign names should not be moved back to the first line. As an exception, a local official name different from a widely accepted English name should be retained in the lead. (Foreign language: Local name; known

2169:

You don't seem to understand. it is common, both colloquially and officially, for people to drop "â" altogether, and replace it with "î" everywhere (except for "România" and its small lexical family). The academic rule is that this not to be done at all: we follow it in mainspace here (because we

2009:

I can't see your point, because in ID cards , city hall and all other official documents are written with "î" ... In Romania (and many more countries) the names cannot be modified just like that. ... if you see my point... So I have an ID card from this year .. which says that i live in Tirgu

1921:

I understand that .. That means .. If somebody who left Romania in 93 .. and sends a message to "Tîrgu Mureş", he get the letter back with a message "Inexistent city"? And if it was changed .. than the senior of Tg-Mures why put a table on city hall with "Tîrgu Mureş" and also on the net? That's

1392:

of the usage on native name on English wikipedia is when the English version of the name is more popular than that nation`s version, and then we include that nations verion under "native", if that would be the problem here, the Romanian version would be under native and not any other alternative.

736:

First of all, I must remark that I deleted practically nothing from existing text, neither changed it in any significant way, only inserted additional information. Where small pieces of information was, however, changed, I give the reason below. Aprt from this, the additional information does not

442:

I had to remove the sentence suggesting that "Fascist Hungary's anti-Romanian and anti-Semetic policies seriously undermined the cities economic and demographic development" this is incredibly biased and lacks any factual basis. There is no mention of Ceauşsecu's anti-Hungarian policies under his

407:

grew and people from around the villages around the cities moved in the cities and changed the ethnic balance. This has not happened in areas where there were compact populations of Hungarians, both in rural in urban areas, like the Szekely Land, where the ethnic balance is pretty much unchanged.

2365:

It looks like you are right. The official name of this city is spelled "Tirgu Mures", but according to the orthographic change from 1993, the "î" if occurs in the middle of one word should be replaced by "â". The pronunciation remains the same. Since this issue is unsolved I propose asking for a

2101:

the academic rule at the time, replacing the earlier ruling that made no exception for the country name. Anyone who was in school back in the day will remember this being the case. Btw, the exception was not just for the country name, but also for its derivatives and for personal names that were

1319:

I proved that such examples do exist, more than that abudantly. Out of the examples only Pristina is a disputed territory, while Lviv and Ceuta has not more link to Poland or Portugal than Targu Mures / Marosvásárhelyare with Hungary. It will not be a fruitful discussion, if you always say, yes,

417:

Well, I just found out that there is already information about this in the article, a the end of paragraph 5. And I think that's enough, I mean, Criztu got really crazy about my addition, so I cut it, I mean, it's already there, in a shorter form, so there is no need to overemphasize it. Off the

773:

I would only be happy, if the article were improved by additional information relevant to the Romanian history such as the activity of Romanian illuminators (P. Maior , Sincai or Papiu Illarian) in the city, but I would prefer to leave this job for colleagues who are more familiar with Romanian

2345:

Yes, for the reasons stated by me above (and by other users in the previous discussion), which have not been addressed. As for the fact that the discussion is old as far as I can remember, policy is that nothing is set in stone on Knowledge. These concers have not been answered, so the current

1905:

It is not "a" and "i", but "â" and "î" which in Romanian correspond to the same sound (/ɨ/). After the 1993 ortographic reform, the "î"'s which occur in the middle of words were replaced by "â". It is just an ortographic change, the pronounciation is the same. For more info, have a look at the

796:

5.2. The original article contains practically no information with respect to the medieval era, although, some people may be interested in it and the city’s history was full of event in the middle ages being the most important city of the Szeklers and being located very close to Saxons and the

755:

as stated by the article itself, this change is fair. Mures county was also given in its Hungarian form as well for the same reasons. I suggest collegues Dahn and Biruitorul to check how toponyms are handled in case of other ‘sensitive’ for some people cases, e.g. Danzig / Gdansk or Istanbul /

2403:

Yes, I know what the spelling rules are. My main argument is that because this is a legal name, it is an exception and the correct form is the legal form, in the same way that Vasile Alecsandri, Adriean Videanu and Klaus Iohannis are correct, despite the fact that it should have been Vasile

823:

was added to the sentence that Jewish ghetto was established in the city which makes events clearer. According to the article Marosvásárhely re-entered the Romanian administration at the end of the war in October 1944., which is not true as Romanian civil administration was expulsed from

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one, a formula satisfying all communities should be found. I do not see that names in minority languages should be treated as an offense by the country's dominant ethnie. The Romanian related content of the city, in my view, could be improved by adding relevant material. — (Unsigned by

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itself considered "a foreign name not normally used in English", i.e. it would be (probably without the diacritical marks) the usual English name for the place, but even if not it is patent from the examples given that it's expected that the title name itself should be

2087:

To write only Romania with 'a'? :) ... oh .. and i'm not talking about rules or others .. I simply talking about ID cards .. and that says that I live in Tirgu Mures .. any objection? They wrote bullshits in my ID card?? on city hall? at the entrance of the city??

2010:

Mures .. Also the letter above explains all ... In this momment the city where I LIVE is Tirgu Mures .. and NOT Targu Mures as you are suggesting. Probably in few years will be renamed .. but until than Targu Mures does not exist officially, that's the sad reality

759:

4.) In new section on the city'с location a brief description of тхе geographical situation was given. Location is a usual content in case of cities, deletion doen not seem warranted.. A Geography section can be found in the Romanian article of the city as well.

272:

I don't really care where the article unds up, just that the title match the article itself. Again, the reason I moved it is that the title did not match the article. If something else is more correct, fine, but please correct the article if/when you move it. -

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Constantinople, and they will see that my solution using both name is fair taking into account that in the mentioned cases, in historical sections before Polish / Turkish era, the cities are exclusevely mentioned in the respective German and Greek forms.

1948:

The letter will be sent correctly for both spellings. Even now in 2007 both can be found on inscriptions and companies official papers, so a lot of people still confound it. Most of us, however, tend to use "Tg. Mureş" instead, just to be sure. :)

1225:

Since this is a place in Romania there is no sense for selecting it as a Hungary project. If someone thinks different, if they could explain why, with valid reasons(not disputed regions that can`t compare with a normal country). Wiki projects

664:

In either case, link to the place name as it currently stands, which is usually the name of the article. Linking to both is at best redundant, one being in general a redirect to the other, and worse may be misleading if it links to somewhere

737:

contradict the already existing text, neither corrupts it. It must be noted, that prior to my editions, there had not been any single reference to any kind of verifiable sources which did not help to make the article more Knowledge conform.

811:

5.5 The information on Szekler Martyrs is an important piece of information for those who are interested in the Hungarian aspect of the town’s history. Mentioning them is not offensive for anyone else. See. Romanian page of Târgu Mureş.

831:

6.) I simply do not see any reason why illustrious editors like colleagues Dahn or Biroitorul simply delete pictures of churches which does not belong to Romanian religous communities from the ’places of worship’ section leaving only the

827:

Information for the Hungarian autonomous province was only made clearer, and reference was made to residential districts and the fertilizer production plant which deeply influenced and still characterize the city-shape and local economy.

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No, no, no. The arbiter of correct spelling in Romanian is the Romanian Academy (www.acad.ro), much like the Académie française in France. The city hall of Târgu Mureş has no authority to overthrow Romania's spelling reforms of 1993.

1994:În ceea ce priveşte informaţiile de la Camera Deputaţilor, nu ar fi prima oară cînd se folosesc greşit informaţii. Dacă s-a dat vreo lege în care se foloseşte numele Tărgu-Mureş, probabil că aceasta ar putea fi lovită de nulitate..." 2611: 702:

is quite clear on this point: "Do not boldface foreign names not normally used in English, or variations included only to show etymology...". Here, we must assume (also considering that what goes before it) that "Târgu Mureş" is

801:

which is informative for people for whom Avram Iancu’s presence is important instead of deleting other piece of information that may be interesting for people looking for information from the point of view of another community.

2113:

to the "î" form (good luck with that). The simple fact that the spelling varies, which is something we all knew in advance, does not weigh anything on the fact that, at least in this case, wiki guides itself by academic rules.

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The cut-off point between bolding/not-bolding is still being discussed. If you would like to express your opinion of the compromise and how it should be worded, the proper place is at the aforementioned talk page, not here.

91:

The name (the combination) is not that common, in any case that young drummer is not famous and certainly doesn't belong in the same sentence with the other names. I never heard of another notable Felix Moldovan either. The

1138: 1035:

I understand your points, but bare in mind that Windows XP is 35.21% of the market, the other 65.79% are other systems :) that don`t have this problem. Romanian wiki probably did`t started this correction of the s-cedilla.

1515:

My relatives were among them. I'd like to see something written here about the Jewish community that was exterminated. I know very little about it, but I'll bet some of the writers have information that could be added.

2207:

As a side note, beyond the point of this discussion: there are plenty of cities with two or more official names. This is the case of various cities in Finland, Belgium, India, Ireland, Wales, China, etc. Not to mention

1817:

In sum, there may be a legalistic argument for the move, but in practice, as Adrian points out, common usage prefers the present title, which also fits with similarly named places. There's no particular need to move. -

367:

I note that someone recently slightly changed the population number (and what percentage are Magyar). We could use a citation for both of these numbers (total and %), though these are certainly not way out of line. --

2156:"academic rules are academic rules, and they are universal; any document you cite does not use â at all, and replaces it with î everywhere, not just in the city name. see my point?)" << you said .. : --> 2182:, it is not not proof that "Târgu Mureş" is an exception (since it will write "Tîrgu Mureş" in the same way someone would write "cîine" instead of "câine", "brînză" instead of "brânză" etc etc). See my point? 793:

the current Romanian name like on the Romanian Wikipage which contains interesting information on this issue. This would be a more constructive approach than simply deleting and reverting other people's work.

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But Odorheiu Secuiesc has 96.7% romenian and Târgu Mureş is majority Romanian. We speak about this article now, so please explain your revert and please say why romenian name is added into this article?

1553: 638:

When the text is not about some event in the past, put the current name of the place first, in the majority language used in the territory it resides, and follow it with other names in other languages

1174:; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. 2193:

So this means .. the city has 2 names? Anyone knows about a city with 2 official names? Why do you insist to use with 'â'.. if oficially is with 'i'? I wish to know another opinions ... everyone?

1529: 766:

Both Hungarian and Romanian Knowledge articles contain a lot more information than this article, and much of the information I added are contained this or that way by these two articles as well.

2128:

funny .. So from now i will undo the article how much will require .. (if you don't have with talk about .. f*ck the rules .. and think logically .. the politics are greater then all rules

2105:

I don't see any merit in the "ID cards" argument, and I have explained above why it is of no relevancy to this discussion. For your claim that it is "official", you need to find a document

2271:. This is the official web page of the city hall. Also, if this is not enaogh, please contact city hall in order to ask what is the correct speeling of the city. I did, and they said it's 2540: 2211:

Krung Thep Mahanakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Yuthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udomratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Piman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanukam Prasit

1767:- technically, the nominator does have a point; in some "official" way, it may be the name was never modified in or after 1993, and yes, some (not all) government bodies continue to use 1564:

Isn't that photo a bit unrepresentative? For example, it doesn't have a clip of the Palace of Culture or the Mayor's Hall, but it has lesser insignificant churches in it and sunsets....

294:

the î in the middle of a word (as in Tîrgu Mureş) was abolished in 1993. About the hyphen: in Romanian wikipedia it's "Târgu Mureş", without hyphen, so I guess we should follow that.

748:. The article itself also calss it ‘city hall’ and not as Prefectire Building both in its History and in Tourist Attractions section, so my additional text helps avoid ambiguity. 2558: 2554: 1194: 1154: 2174:), but people are at liberty to use whatever form they want in all other contexts. To complete my point, I have given you examples (official ones) where the â is not discarded 1339:- As this place has a significant Hungarian population and this is an project covering Hungary(a nation in Eastern Europe, Hungarians) this projects covers this page perfectly. 311:

If there are no ojections, I'll request a move to "Târgu Mureş". There's edit history, so I can't move it myself. When it's moved I'll make sure the article text is adjusted.

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that Hungarians could not easily get jobs inside cities with high Hungarian percentage in the time of communism. So please end the hate speech, this is an encyclopedia. --

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You are comparing Kosovo with Romania ? Knowledge is about facts not felling, you misunderstood me, I am not upset, it is just unreasonable as I said it before. I quote

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2.) The Hungarian form of Marosvásárhely was given a bold font, the same way as given the Romanian name Târgu Mureş. As the city is inhabited by two communities, and is

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I made some draft for changes in order to have a better look on my workshop. If someone has comments it isn highly appreciated.Rokarudi 01:19, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

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You miss the point as you have sometimes done in the past too. This tag does not mean that the town is part of Hungary, but only that it is part of a project (like

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Please check other examples and stop adding Hungary wiki project in innapropriate places. This can`t be both wiki projects since this location is only in Romania

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Tamas, it's very good that you explained the demographic change, but there's one word that should be changed, because it doesn't fit the dictionary definition:

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SHOULD be. But the reality is different. Now, I'm not particularly attached to this issue, so if I see these arguments in some way addressed I'll let it go.

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But, again, all this is beside the point, since I have made my case about what was of interest here a long time ago. Your apparent disbelief is evidence of a

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It seems useful to mention here that the information given at the year of 1616 with respect to the name Târgu Mureş as the equivalent of Marosvásárhely

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If the case is exceptional, common sense may be applied to ignore all rules. Please discuss to decide whether this is an exceptional case or not.

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will make more sense of. It is no surprise, for example, that articles I've edited about historical Hungarian subjects tend to say "Pozsony (now

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The correct name is is with "-" like in the case of "Cluj-Napoca". I agree that there must be a redirect link from Târgu Mureş to Târgu-Mureş.

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I am sorry, please understand me, this discussion is old, what you are saying that the correct name of this city should be "Tirgu Mures" ?

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When the text is about some event in the past, if the place went under a different name, put that name first (for example, "Vásárhely (now

1582: 661:, Romania)". If even at that time it went under more than two names, put the one most closely related to the subject of the article first. 1348: 1247: 2246:

And way to selectively pick comments to reply to. Why not do a little looking into the double names for Finnish cities, or for those in

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any document you cite does not use â at all, and replaces it with î everywhere .. that's right .. so it's used with 'i' .. officially .

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5.4. Teleki Library is an important cultural curiosity of the town and has a Wiki article as well, so it seemed useful to mention it.

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All the pages concerning cities begin with info box. There is somewhere this rule. I've seen this reason somewhere. Still searching.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

2496: 2462: 932: 728: 2178:, and as such is used in the city's name as well. The main thing you should focus on is that, if a document refuses to use "â" in 113:

The panorama was moved to the bottom with the comment "moved picture below according to Wiki's rule". What rule would that be? --

1925: 1885: 1698: 1667: 1089:, etc., are other examples (already using s-comma); so, or we rename Timişoara, Piatra Neamţ and Târgu Mureş, too, or vice-versa! 252: 180: 281: 606: 85: 2424: 2359: 2324: 836:

of Romanian Orthodox Church in place. I hope this is a simple mistake, otherwise self-explanatory for the editors intentions.

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I appreciate, though, that this is not the point under discussion here, which is, should the Hungarian be bolded in the lead?

682:(i.e., does not imply that it should be used thus in other articles). This just saves unnecessary repeats of the alternatives. 390: 1874:<< I think this is relevant .. If my name was one with 'i' in it, than my name will be changed?? I don't think so .. 1410:(Where the Russian population is similar to the Hungarian percentage here), go to edit the article and notice the difference. 243: 1385:

of it, can you prove that the Hungarian alternative name is the native one? Or the Latin one? Or after all the Romanian one?

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Move was based on the fact that that was how it was written in the article. I figured the title should match the article. -

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third opinion? I don`t know really.. I want to help but I don`t know which form would be the best in this case. Greetings.

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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hungary, a collaborative effort to improve Knowledge's coverage of Hungary

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article for details). Now that those no longer exist, move to the correct spelling. If this request and related ones (

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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leadership, and his systematic dilution of the Hungarian population by bringing in migrants from south-eastern Romania.

1359: 695:, Slovakia)", for example, because a bald statement that such events happened at Bratislava, Slovakia is simply false. 539:

No, it has nothing to do. In Tg. Mureş is a clear Romanian majority so there is no need to egualize other names too.--

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That city has also 1 official name ... also in thai 1 .. and another which is the shortest version .. so 1 name ...

2029:, and that the rule in question would most logically be that of the language regulator (the most recent one passed). 805:

5.3. The stay of Petőfi and Bem in the city was not deleted even from the Romanian language article of Târgu Mureş.

93: 1207: 1010: 2471: 2143:(it also uses no diacritics, but that doesn't mean that the city "is officially spelled without diacritics"...). 2557:

to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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http://resources.ushmm.org/Holocaust-Names/List-Catalog/display/details.php?type=nlcat&id=141610&ord=13

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As editors Dahn and Biruitorul consequently revert my changes, I would like to explain what I changed and why.

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Why is there nothing in this article about the Jews from Tirgu Mures who were rounded up and murdered in 1944?

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5.1. The sentence containing that the ‘city was first documented in 1332 in the papal registry under the name

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Alternative name cannot have the same font size as the official one - I hope this is understandable also -

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to have names of two different lengths, let me point out that the "two names" of Târgu Mureş are actually

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Also see this comment from romanian wikipedia (sadly the city name is incorrectly written there too) : -->

1867:- I think, that is Tîrgu Mureş .. I did not hear that names were changed from letters with 'î' to 'â' .. 1193:

To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant

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the city hall and the county council are wrong, then it wouldn't be a big deal if wikipedia is wrong too.

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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Therefore PLEASE REMOVE IMMEDIATLY THE CRAP PARAGRAPHS ABOUT ROMANIAN COLONISATION OF TARGU MURES !!

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Well if you have references for this info you could insert it. I have no knowledge about this event.

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Also .. when all was written with 'i' .. and Romania with 'a' .. then were were the academic rules?

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I think I wrote this some time ago - though it could have been sonmeone else. Here is a reference:

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070721064618/http://www.recensamant.ro/fisiere/rezultatefinale.zip

1972:

See ID cards, city hall tables, table at the entrance in the city and this letter from the mayor

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O poză panoramică sau ceva de genul acesta care să arate cât mai mult din oraș ar fi mai bine.

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Sorry now seen, that this is discussed ... Correct one with 'î' .. I think also .. Somebody?

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even if common, to hyphenate toponyms, in the form Miercurea-Ciuc, Târgu-Neamţ, etc.) Thanks,

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As I side note: i don't particularly endorse this system otherwise than acknowledging that

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Moreover, sorry to say, it was you who started this controversy by deleting the Hungary tag

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Once and for all, the correct spelling is Tîrgu-Mureş. If you don't belive me please see

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http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:File_Upload_Wizard?wpDestFile=T%C3%A2rgu-Mure%C8%99.ogg

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Has anyone ever seen the body of the Academy ruling? Because, according to this source:

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listed as a native: may I assume that's the jazz drummer? Probably not a unique name. -

2543:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 1616: 1022: 852: 647: 618: 550: 362: 337: 2583:

If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

1158: 744:. The information is correct and relevant as many know and call this building as the 654:)" may be appropriate to a Hungary-related article, but not to a Germany-related one. 408: 291: 177: 128: 500:

The best place to discuss the workings of the compromise is [[Talk:Odorheiu rominesc

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never spelled with an "â" by their "owners" (such as "Brâncuşi" and "Agârbiceanu").

1950: 1806:(which doesn't use tags). Even the Romanian Parliament, at least some of the time, 1672: 1337:

WikiProject Eastern Europe, a WikiProject related to the nations of Eastern Europe.

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L.O.L. Maybe because there are 70.000 romenian souls in the city, maybe that's why

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should incorporate all editors' legitimate concerns, while respecting Knowledge's

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Having said that, let's put aside the pedantry. All major Romanian newspapers use

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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in my personal messages (as opposed to mainspace, if this should be the case).

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Correctly with "Î" until it's not published in the Official Monitor of Romania

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File:Sapientia Hungarian University of Transilvania.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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then you may need to upload it to Knowledge (Commons does not allow fair use)

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Purtător de cuvânt al Primăriei Tîrgu-Mureş, dir. exec. adj. Marius Paşcan"

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This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image

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who made the addition also seems to have other random clownish edits (like

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1.) I added to the text under the picture of Mures County Prefecture that

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in the so called Hungarian 'national style' propounded by Ödön Lechner.

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I do think that there is no bilingual institut operating in Targu Mures.

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Croatian or Serbian places which were part of the Kingdom of Hungary):

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that Târgu Mureş officials are unsure what to use makes no difference.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20120118063720/http://www.visitmures.com/

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Please read how it is beign used the "native" section in the infobox

987:) are successful, I urge their application to all Romanian names. — 962: 790:(târg and vásár mean "Market" in Romanian and Hungarian respectively) 1643:

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal.

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image page (File:Sapientia Hungarian University of Transilvania.jpg)

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https://www.dropbox.com/s/nuddtqoq97diret/T%C3%A2rgu-Mure%C8%99.ogg

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal.

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and places that are not in Hungary are not in Hungary`s coverage.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20070813213640/http://www.bcmures.ro/

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A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20150209065809/http://www.erdely.tv/

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I have created the audio file but my account is not confirmed.

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There were thousands. Why is there nothing written about them?

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After checking the examples you provided, only one was valid ,

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is a problem now, I will try to explain in several points:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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the corect name is Tîrgu-Mureş...it's with î not with â -

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Ne trebuie o poză mai bună pentru partea de sus dreapta.

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most widely used operating system for personal computers

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a

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Markussep your wrong, the correct name is with "î" Tîrgu

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File:Sapientia Hungarian University of Transilvania.jpg

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does not render on XP without an add-on, and XP is the

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http://www.recensamant.ro/fisiere/rezultatefinale.zip

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http://dexonline.ro/articol/XII._%C3%AE_sau_%C3%A2%3F

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just not right "CHANGING NAMES"? Who has this power?

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Iadrian, I responded to your request adressed to me:

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

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I'm not even sure the Tâ/îrgu Mureșians can decide.

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are mainly marked like that for people that live in

2553:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 1185:If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no 687:At all times I try to bear in mind what the likely 1687:University of Medicine and Pharmacy of Târgu Mureș 799:between 1846-48 and passed his lawyer’s exams here 1414: 670:For subsequent uses, just use the name as it was 2654:Assimilation of Hungarians in Marosvasarhely.jpg 2621:Assimilation of Hungarians in Marosvasarhely.jpg 1693:), and on the site of the Mures County Council ( 1567:Shouldn't someone make a better photo collage? 1478: 1452:- Beograd native, not Nándorfehérvár (Hungarian) 1234:country regardless of ethnicity. Also it states 1814:- surely it would be odd to move just this one. 1460: 1420: 923:ș (the same rule for all Romanian city names) ( 2659:Participate in the deletion discussion at the 2626:Participate in the deletion discussion at the 2539:This message was posted before February 2018. 1469: 1407: 824:Northern—Transylvania by the soviets in 1944. 821:after Hungary was occupied by Germany in 1944 640:that are appropriate to the article's subject 1400:of the "native" usage on English wikipedia: 781:was amended with the half-sentence saying 2479:I have just modified 4 external links on 380:I changed them too and added a citation. 2073:the academic rules at that time, Elmao. 2040:a long time ago, but I'll never get use 1701:it is a capture from Google Street View 14: 1872:http://www.tirgumures.ro/e107/news.php 1377:Also if you pursue the "native" name, 975:was due to technical limitations (see 680:solely for the purpose of that article 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 2455:also by several alternative names)".' 1157:, has been nominated for deletion at 674:used, which may be considered as the 893:The result of the move request was: 25: 1908:Romanian language#Romanian alphabet 1602:Please, a kind soul upload it here 1189:then it cannot be uploaded or used. 235:. I believe the later is wrong. If 228:, while on the county council site 127:The famous Wiki Panorama Rule. :-) 23: 1717: 224:(the reference site) it's spelled 24: 2715: 2483:. Please take a moment to review 1697:). And also on the street signs. 626:much prominence be given to them. 621:) on 3 January 2010 15.28 (UTC)) 2688:E veche și aiurea poza oricum. 1870:I don't know very much, but see 1146: 729:Market-Muresh/Maroshmarketplace? 167: 162: 29: 2109:that the "â" form is official, 1654:The result of the proposal was 1153:An image used in this article, 2640:08:40, 30 September 2020 (UTC) 2459:2A02:2430:3:2500:0:0:B807:3DA0 2450:WP:LEAD#Separate section usage 2305:07:58, 29 September 2010 (UTC) 2262:13:49, 27 September 2007 (UTC) 2229:13:39, 27 September 2007 (UTC) 2219:12:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC) 2198:06:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC) 2187:12:57, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 2164:12:49, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 2148:12:51, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 2133:12:43, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 2119:12:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 2093:12:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 2078:12:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 2064:12:10, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 2053:12:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 2015:12:08, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 1727: 1403:The Hague - Den Haag (Dutch) ; 990: 13: 1: 2704:22:26, 19 December 2021 (UTC) 2607:07:22, 29 November 2017 (UTC) 2141:both forms in chaotic fashion 1812:a dozen places called "Târgu" 1554:07:00, 22 November 2012 (UTC) 907:01:19, 12 November 2011 (UTC) 342:02:22, 17 December 2006 (UTC) 316:08:56, 16 December 2006 (UTC) 244:22:35, 23 February 2006 (UTC) 211:06:51, 15 February 2006 (UTC) 2467:04:23, 6 December 2015 (UTC) 1938:09:04, 1 February 2007 (UTC) 1915:10:49, 31 January 2007 (UTC) 1898:09:57, 31 January 2007 (UTC) 1825:18:43, 2 November 2013 (UTC) 1758:06:19, 29 October 2013 (UTC) 1735:02:15, 29 October 2013 (UTC) 1711:13:00, 28 October 2013 (UTC) 1668:21:43, 5 November 2013 (UTC) 1163:Deletion requests April 2012 1112:08:58, 5 November 2011 (UTC) 1046:08:14, 5 November 2011 (UTC) 1027:06:16, 5 November 2011 (UTC) 998:01:33, 5 November 2011 (UTC) 952:16:55, 2 November 2011 (UTC) 933:15:22, 2 November 2011 (UTC) 861:21:41, 27 October 2009 (UTC) 783:and as Sekulvasarhel in 1349 486:02:32, 9 December 2008 (UTC) 469:13:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC) 299:21:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC) 7: 2289:00:26, 2 January 2009 (UTC) 1999:06:05, 17 August 2007 (UTC) 1966:05:32, 15 August 2007 (UTC) 1954:05:41, 15 August 2007 (UTC) 1845:Târgu Mureş or Tîrgu Mureş? 1629:18:24, 26 August 2013 (UTC) 1354:"native" name or other name 1161:in the following category: 840:the already attached one. 742:it was built as a City Hall 723:09:09, 4 January 2010 (UTC) 607:01:37, 3 January 2010 (UTC) 579:06:42, 21 August 2007 (UTC) 558:17:21, 17 August 2007 (UTC) 391:Comments on Tamas' addition 198:07:24, 5 January 2006 (UTC) 181:06:08, 5 January 2006 (UTC) 148:05:56, 5 January 2006 (UTC) 132:23:50, 4 January 2006 (UTC) 122:23:44, 4 January 2006 (UTC) 86:01:31, 3 January 2006 (UTC) 10: 2720: 2570:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2511:http://www.visitmures.com/ 2476:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2446:WP:LEAD#General guidelines 2340:15:12, 30 March 2011 (UTC) 2325:10:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC) 2036:; I have gotten used with 1212:08:12, 11 April 2012 (UTC) 376:21:41, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC) 2673:10:29, 30 June 2021 (UTC) 2425:20:14, 1 April 2011 (UTC) 2376:18:34, 1 April 2011 (UTC) 2360:02:43, 1 April 2011 (UTC) 2269:http://www.tirgumures.ro/ 1877:Just as a suggestion :) 1863:10:10, 25 June 2010 (UTC) 1583:21:25, 20 June 2013 (UTC) 1530:06:40, 1 March 2011 (UTC) 1502:14:18, 19 June 2012 (UTC) 1326:12:18, 27 June 2010 (UTC) 1311:23:44, 26 June 2010 (UTC) 1293:23:24, 26 June 2010 (UTC) 1275:23:14, 26 June 2010 (UTC) 1248:22:51, 26 June 2010 (UTC) 432:05:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC) 422:30 June 2005 22:05 (UTC) 414:30 June 2005 16:33 (UTC) 385:04:44, 17 July 2007 (UTC) 2397:17:47, 7 July 2014 (UTC) 1835:Please do not modify it. 1683:http://www.tirgumures.ro 1646:Please do not modify it. 1129:Please do not modify it. 885:Please do not modify it. 700:WP:LEAD#Foreign language 535:17:45, 10 May 2007 (UTC) 519:17:38, 10 May 2007 (UTC) 505:17:32, 10 May 2007 (UTC) 282:03:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC) 2472:External links modified 2442:policies and guidelines 1349:11:34, 5 May 2012 (UTC) 2521:http://www.bcmures.ro/ 1722: 1695:http://www.cjmures.ro/ 1685:), on the site of the 1265:(Portugals, Spain) or 1204:CommonsNotificationBot 651: 221:on the city hall site 2531:http://www.erdely.tv/ 1928:comment was added by 1888:comment was added by 1721: 1691:http://www.umftgm.ro/ 779:Novum Forum Siculorum 332:I've moved the page. 255:comment was added by 42:of past discussions. 2551:regular verification 1808:passes laws using it 1221:Wiki project Hungary 1017:uses the s-cedilla. 753:officially bilingual 2541:After February 2018 2388:User:alexandru.deva 1636:Requested move 2013 1261:(Poland, Germany), 1257:(Poland, Ukraine), 871:Requested move 2011 591:Let's be serious. 104:). I'm removing it. 2665:Community Tech bot 2632:Community Tech bot 2595:InternetArchiveBot 2546:InternetArchiveBot 2241:of the same length 1810:. And Romania has 1723: 1560:Main article photo 1445:- Bucuresti native 1413:Also article Talin 1187:fair use rationale 619:User talk:Rokarudi 2706: 2694:comment added by 2571: 2428: 2411:comment added by 1941: 1901: 1823: 1793:Jurnalul Naţional 1787:Evenimentul Zilei 1632: 1615:comment added by 1573:comment added by 1544:comment added by 1218: 1217: 1167:What should I do? 1159:Wikimedia Commons 942:- Per nominator. 864: 847:comment added by 774:history than me. 597:comment added by 553: 546: 471: 459:comment added by 292:Romanian alphabet 268: 195: 145: 67: 66: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 2711: 2689: 2605: 2596: 2569: 2568: 2547: 2427: 2405: 2399: 1923: 1883: 1837: 1822: 1732: 1731: 1680: 1648: 1631: 1609: 1585: 1556: 1178:If the image is 1150: 1143: 1142: 1131: 995: 994: 887: 863: 841: 834:place of worship 819:A half sentence 642:. For example, " 609: 556: 555: 551: 545: 454: 340: 250: 193: 190: 171: 166: 143: 140: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 18:Talk:Târgu Mureș 2719: 2718: 2714: 2713: 2712: 2710: 2709: 2708: 2680: 2661:nomination page 2647: 2628:nomination page 2614: 2599: 2594: 2562: 2555:have permission 2545: 2489:this simple FaQ 2474: 2436:Just a remind. 2434: 2406: 2390: 2312: 2170:have to follow 1977:"Stimate domn, 1924:—The preceding 1884:—The preceding 1853: 1847: 1842: 1833: 1740: 1726: 1676: 1644: 1638: 1610: 1591: 1568: 1562: 1539: 1510: 1356: 1223: 1141: 1136: 1127: 989: 974: 968:instead of the 967: 883: 873: 842: 731: 592: 549: 540: 497: 492: 440: 393: 365: 333: 251:—The preceding 188: 158: 156:Hyphenated name 138: 111: 72: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 2717: 2679: 2676: 2657: 2656: 2646: 2643: 2624: 2623: 2613: 2610: 2589: 2588: 2581: 2534: 2533: 2525:Added archive 2523: 2515:Added archive 2513: 2505:Added archive 2503: 2495:Added archive 2473: 2470: 2433: 2430: 2401: 2400: 2395:comment added 2379: 2378: 2343: 2342: 2311: 2308: 2293: 2265: 2264: 2251: 2244: 2222: 2221: 2205: 2192: 2190: 2189: 2153: 2151: 2150: 2126: 2124: 2123: 2122: 2121: 2103: 2083: 2081: 2080: 2058: 2056: 2055: 2034:it is official 2030: 2003: 1986: 1970: 1959: 1958: 1957: 1956: 1943: 1942: 1918: 1917: 1849: 1846: 1843: 1841: 1840: 1828: 1827: 1815: 1772: 1761: 1760: 1742: 1741: 1738: 1703:79.117.164.109 1652: 1651: 1639: 1637: 1634: 1590: 1587: 1561: 1558: 1546:50.148.184.138 1533: 1532: 1509: 1506: 1505: 1504: 1492:when editing? 1489: 1488: 1487: 1480: 1471: 1462: 1453: 1446: 1439: 1434: 1429: 1423: 1417: 1411: 1404: 1401: 1386: 1375: 1369: 1355: 1352: 1335: 1333: 1332: 1331: 1330: 1329: 1328: 1295: 1222: 1219: 1216: 1215: 1191: 1190: 1183: 1169: 1168: 1151: 1140: 1137: 1135: 1134: 1124:requested move 1119: 1118: 1117: 1116: 1115: 1095: 1094: 1093: 1092: 1091: 1090: 1051: 1050: 1049: 1048: 1030: 1029: 1000: 972: 965: 961:. The use of 955: 954: 910: 891: 890: 880:requested move 874: 872: 869: 730: 727: 726: 725: 710: 709: 696: 685: 684: 683: 668: 667: 666: 662: 655: 635:At first use: 628: 627: 588: 587: 586: 585: 584: 583: 582: 581: 565: 564: 563: 562: 561: 560: 524: 523: 522: 521: 508: 507: 496: 493: 490: 489: 488: 461:86.105.123.228 439: 436: 435: 434: 404: 403: 400: 392: 389: 388: 387: 364: 361: 360: 359: 358: 357: 351: 350: 349: 348: 347: 346: 345: 344: 323: 322: 321: 320: 319: 318: 304: 303: 302: 301: 285: 284: 267:) 23 May 2006. 247: 246: 214: 213: 200: 157: 154: 153: 152: 151: 150: 110: 107: 106: 105: 75:Felix Moldovan 71: 70:Felix Moldovan 68: 65: 64: 52: 51: 34: 15: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 2716: 2707: 2705: 2701: 2697: 2696:93.122.249.21 2693: 2686: 2683: 2678:Poză mai bună 2675: 2674: 2670: 2666: 2662: 2655: 2652: 2651: 2650: 2642: 2641: 2637: 2633: 2629: 2622: 2619: 2618: 2617: 2609: 2608: 2603: 2598: 2597: 2586: 2582: 2579: 2575: 2574: 2573: 2566: 2560: 2556: 2552: 2548: 2542: 2537: 2532: 2528: 2524: 2522: 2518: 2514: 2512: 2508: 2504: 2502: 2498: 2494: 2493: 2492: 2490: 2486: 2482: 2477: 2469: 2468: 2464: 2460: 2456: 2451: 2447: 2443: 2439: 2429: 2426: 2422: 2418: 2414: 2410: 2398: 2394: 2389: 2385: 2381: 2380: 2377: 2373: 2369: 2364: 2363: 2362: 2361: 2357: 2353: 2347: 2341: 2337: 2333: 2329: 2328: 2327: 2326: 2322: 2318: 2307: 2306: 2302: 2298: 2291: 2290: 2286: 2282: 2281:Sohoscribbler 2276: 2274: 2270: 2263: 2260: 2256: 2255:false dilemma 2252: 2249: 2245: 2242: 2238: 2233: 2232: 2231: 2230: 2227: 2220: 2217: 2213: 2212: 2206: 2202: 2201: 2200: 2199: 2196: 2188: 2185: 2181: 2177: 2173: 2168: 2167: 2166: 2165: 2162: 2154: 2149: 2146: 2142: 2137: 2136: 2135: 2134: 2131: 2120: 2117: 2112: 2108: 2104: 2100: 2096: 2095: 2094: 2091: 2086: 2085: 2084: 2079: 2076: 2072: 2068: 2067: 2066: 2065: 2062: 2054: 2051: 2047: 2043: 2039: 2035: 2031: 2028: 2027:a single rule 2024: 2019: 2018: 2017: 2016: 2013: 2007: 2004: 2001: 2000: 1997: 1992: 1989: 1984: 1981: 1978: 1975: 1973: 1968: 1967: 1964: 1955: 1952: 1947: 1946: 1945: 1944: 1939: 1935: 1931: 1930:195.250.59.34 1927: 1920: 1919: 1916: 1913: 1909: 1904: 1903: 1902: 1899: 1895: 1891: 1890:195.250.59.34 1887: 1881: 1878: 1875: 1873: 1868: 1865: 1864: 1860: 1856: 1852: 1839: 1836: 1830: 1829: 1826: 1821: 1816: 1813: 1809: 1805: 1801: 1800: 1795: 1794: 1789: 1788: 1783: 1782: 1777: 1773: 1770: 1766: 1763: 1762: 1759: 1755: 1751: 1747: 1744: 1743: 1736: 1733: 1730: 1720: 1715: 1714: 1713: 1712: 1708: 1704: 1700: 1696: 1692: 1688: 1684: 1679: 1674: 1670: 1669: 1665: 1661: 1657: 1650: 1647: 1641: 1640: 1633: 1630: 1626: 1622: 1618: 1617:Gabriel Radic 1614: 1606: 1605: 1600: 1599: 1594: 1589:Pronunciation 1586: 1584: 1580: 1576: 1575:68.106.52.251 1572: 1565: 1557: 1555: 1551: 1547: 1543: 1538: 1531: 1527: 1523: 1519: 1518: 1517: 1513: 1503: 1499: 1495: 1490: 1485: 1481: 1479: 1476: 1472: 1470: 1467: 1463: 1461: 1458: 1454: 1451: 1447: 1444: 1440: 1437: 1435: 1432: 1430: 1428: 1424: 1421: 1418: 1415: 1412: 1409: 1405: 1402: 1399: 1395: 1394: 1391: 1390:whole purpose 1387: 1384: 1380: 1376: 1374: 1370: 1368: 1365: 1364: 1363: 1361: 1351: 1350: 1346: 1342: 1338: 1327: 1323: 1318: 1314: 1313: 1312: 1308: 1304: 1300: 1296: 1294: 1290: 1286: 1282: 1278: 1277: 1276: 1272: 1268: 1264: 1260: 1256: 1252: 1251: 1250: 1249: 1245: 1241: 1237: 1233: 1229: 1214: 1213: 1209: 1205: 1201: 1197: 1196: 1188: 1184: 1181: 1177: 1176: 1175: 1173: 1166: 1165: 1164: 1160: 1156: 1152: 1149: 1145: 1144: 1133: 1130: 1125: 1120: 1113: 1109: 1105: 1101: 1100: 1099: 1098: 1097: 1096: 1088: 1084: 1080: 1076: 1072: 1068: 1064: 1060: 1057: 1056: 1055: 1054: 1053: 1052: 1047: 1043: 1039: 1034: 1033: 1032: 1031: 1028: 1024: 1020: 1016: 1015:Romanian Wiki 1012: 1008: 1004: 1001: 999: 996: 993: 986: 982: 978: 971: 964: 960: 957: 956: 953: 949: 945: 941: 938: 937: 936: 934: 930: 926: 920: 918: 914: 909: 908: 904: 900: 896: 889: 886: 881: 876: 875: 868: 865: 862: 858: 854: 850: 846: 837: 835: 829: 825: 822: 817: 813: 809: 806: 803: 800: 794: 791: 786: 784: 780: 775: 771: 767: 764: 761: 757: 754: 749: 747: 746:Old City Hall 743: 738: 734: 724: 720: 716: 712: 711: 706: 701: 697: 694: 690: 686: 681: 677: 673: 669: 663: 660: 656: 653: 649: 645: 641: 637: 636: 634: 633: 630: 629: 624: 623: 622: 620: 616: 615:User:Rokarudi 610: 608: 604: 600: 599:24.59.174.198 596: 580: 577: 573: 572: 571: 570: 569: 568: 567: 566: 559: 554: 547: 544: 538: 537: 536: 533: 528: 527: 526: 525: 520: 517: 516:Tarile Romane 512: 511: 510: 509: 506: 503: 499: 498: 487: 483: 479: 474: 473: 472: 470: 466: 462: 458: 450: 447: 446: 438:Extremely POV 433: 430: 425: 424: 423: 421: 415: 413: 410: 409:bogdan ʤjuʃkə 401: 398: 397: 396: 386: 383: 379: 378: 377: 375: 371: 355: 354: 353: 352: 343: 339: 336: 331: 330: 329: 328: 327: 326: 325: 324: 317: 314: 310: 309: 308: 307: 306: 305: 300: 297: 293: 290:According to 289: 288: 287: 286: 283: 280: 276: 271: 270: 269: 266: 262: 258: 257:81.196.40.109 254: 245: 242: 238: 234: 230: 227: 223: 220: 219: 218: 212: 209: 205: 201: 199: 196: 191: 185: 184: 183: 182: 179: 176: 175: 170: 165: 149: 146: 141: 135: 134: 133: 130: 126: 125: 124: 123: 120: 116: 103: 99: 95: 90: 89: 88: 87: 84: 80: 76: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 2690:— Preceding 2687: 2684: 2681: 2658: 2648: 2625: 2615: 2593: 2590: 2565:source check 2544: 2538: 2535: 2478: 2475: 2453: 2435: 2407:— Preceding 2402: 2391:— Preceding 2348: 2344: 2313: 2292: 2277: 2272: 2266: 2240: 2236: 2223: 2209: 2191: 2179: 2175: 2171: 2155: 2152: 2125: 2110: 2106: 2098: 2082: 2070: 2057: 2045: 2041: 2037: 2033: 2026: 2022: 2008: 2005: 2002: 1993: 1990: 1985: 1982: 1979: 1976: 1971: 1969: 1960: 1882: 1879: 1876: 1869: 1866: 1848: 1834: 1831: 1803: 1798: 1792: 1786: 1780: 1775: 1768: 1764: 1745: 1728: 1671: 1655: 1653: 1645: 1642: 1611:— Preceding 1607: 1601: 1595: 1592: 1569:— Preceding 1566: 1563: 1540:— Preceding 1534: 1514: 1511: 1397: 1389: 1378: 1357: 1336: 1334: 1316: 1280: 1235: 1231: 1227: 1224: 1199: 1198: 1192: 1171: 1170: 1162: 1128: 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History 762: 758: 752: 750: 745: 741: 739: 735: 732: 713:Best wishes 704: 688: 679: 675: 671: 639: 611: 589: 542: 478:131.188.3.21 451: 448: 441: 416: 405: 399:immigrant n. 394: 366: 248: 236: 232: 231:it's called 225: 215: 172: 159: 112: 73: 60: 43: 37: 2481:Târgu Mureș 2413:Omulurimaru 2352:Omulurimaru 2317:Omulurimaru 2297:Omulurimaru 2273:Tîrgu-Mureş 2006:Hi Dahn .. 1951:V. Szabolcs 1678:Tîrgu Mureş 1673:Târgu Mureș 1422:Pariz(Iran) 1324:--Rokarudi 1273:--Rokarudi 1172:Don't panic 917:Târgu Mureș 913:Târgu Mureş 843:—Preceding 659:Târgu Mureş 644:Târgu Mureş 593:—Preceding 455:—Preceding 233:Târgu Mures 226:Tîrgu-Mureş 36:This is an 2602:Report bug 2111:as opposed 2097:Yes, that 1996:Csabaengel 1963:Csabaengel 1820:Biruitorul 1804:Cotidianul 1427:Gothenburg 895:page moved 693:Bratislava 445:Sch. Dávid 363:Population 189:Bonaparte 139:Bonaparte 2585:this tool 2578:this tool 2438:Consensus 2180:all cases 2025:to apply 1729:AjaxSmack 1656:not moved 1608:Thanks. 1596:See here 1459:- Torino 1443:Bucharest 1059:Constanța 992:AjaxSmack 963:s-cedilla 922:ş --: --> 899:Aervanath 652:Vásárhely 648:Hungarian 313:Markussep 296:Markussep 61:Archive 1 2692:unsigned 2591:Cheers.— 2421:contribs 2409:unsigned 2310:March 30 2248:Xinjiang 2176:anywhere 2172:one rule 1926:unsigned 1912:Mentatus 1886:unsigned 1851:See this 1781:Adevărul 1625:contribs 1613:unsigned 1571:unsigned 1542:unsigned 1482:Article 1473:Article 1464:Article 1455:Article 1448:Article 1441:Article 1436:Article 1431:Article 1425:Article 1419:Article 1406:Article 1398:Examples 1379:ignoring 1373:see this 1322:Rokarudi 1271:Rokarudi 1267:Pristina 1180:non-free 1079:Botoșani 1075:Ploiești 1019:Kauffner 940:Support 857:contribs 849:Rokarudi 845:unsigned 676:defining 595:unsigned 457:unsigned 265:contribs 253:unsigned 109:Panorama 98:this one 2485:my edit 2393:undated 1746:Oppose 1739:→ → → → 1484:Germany 1477:- Wien 1468:- Roma 1450:Belgrad 1438:] Ravar 1299:Wroclav 1259:Wroclav 1087:Pitești 1083:Focșani 1007:s-comma 977:S-comma 970:s-comma 959:Support 715:Si Trew 708:bolded. 495:no name 429:Staniol 382:Staniol 174:Ronline 39:archive 2432:Remind 2368:Adrian 2332:Adrian 2107:saying 2069:Those 2046:niciun 1799:Gândul 1765:Oppose 1750:Adrian 1522:Adrian 1494:Adrian 1475:Vienna 1433:] Baft 1358:Since 1341:Adrian 1303:Adrian 1285:Adrian 1240:Adrian 1071:Brașov 1067:Galați 1038:Adrian 1005:. 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