624:. It might be useful to merge the âViews on homosexualityâ points with the passage above it that deals with similar issues. As for the ânot personsâ quote, my guess is that if accurate at all, it has been taken out of context â it would originally have meant homosexuality does not create a type of person that can be given or denied equality, as with race. Out of the highly supportive material recently added and deleted, it might be worth mentioning that the TVC has a significant minority membership, if it can be confirmed by reliable sources. The West Wing incident is already mentioned on the page
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make inroads into public schools, more children will be molested and indoctrinated into the world of homosexuality. Many of them will die in that world.â With regard to LGBT teen suicides, TVC, under the headline âHomosexual Urban
Legends,â claims that âhe cold, hard fact is that teens who are struggling with homosexual feelings are more likely to be sexually molested by a homosexual school counselor or teacher than to commit suicide over their feelings of despair.â
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him. They steal him. They take him away and turn him into a homosexual.â Sheldon later denied that he made the comments, but his website today includes strikingly similar language: âince homosexuals canât reproduce, they will simply go after your children for seduction and conversion to homosexuality.â Elsewhere, it claims that âhe effort to push adult/child sex ⌠is part of the overall homosexual movement.â
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before marriage and on and on. True, you can phrase these in a negative way but that's just the obverse. Anyway, I have added a bit about their views on discrimination and tolerance, again from their page. I haven't posted much, so I don't know many of the rules, I'd be grateful if all y'all would help clean it up for me if I make any mistakes.
1578:, but we need to expand the coverage of it in the body if we want to keep it in the lead. The lead section needs to be a summary of the article, after all. Also, the text in the lead needs to be chosen with care - we want to avoid making it sound like a hatchet job, which will be tricky given the nature of the task. â
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It looks like the organization was not closed in 2018 since it filed an IRS form 990 for year 2019. After that, who knows? I put the latest official-website URL address in the info-box and in WP:EL. But it looks like someone hacked the website (long ago?) and the organization does not care enough to
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As of
September 2017, the TVC's website appears to have gone dark. www.traditionalvalues.org was the organization's web address. Does anyone know anything about this? For example, does TVC have a new web address? Is their website temporarily offline due to technical or business issues? Have they
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I agree with you that it should definitely be in the lede, but IMO all the SPLC notes are unnecessary. If it deserves to be in the lede, it shouldn't require a hard sell. SPLC's designation of TVC as a hate group is not in dispute. The only issue editors need to decide is if that fact is worthy of of
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The TVC also makes assertions on its website about disproportionate homosexual pedophilia and attacks the idea that people are born gay and the claim that gays want the right to marry for the same reasons that heterosexuals do â the TVC suggests the real purpose of marriage equality is to destroy the
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The TVC also asserts that âit is evident that homosexuals molest children at a far greater rate than do their heterosexual counterpartsâ â a falsehood based on conflating male-male molestation with homosexuality. Gays, it says, molest children at âepidemic rates,â adding: âAs homosexuals continue to
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As controversial as the subject is I think you can find some good examples in the articles relating to the abortion debate. Both sides are constantly coming up with their own weighted terminology, framing thing like "Reproductive rights" and "Consistent Life Ethic". We try to use these terms in their
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While I also disagree with some stuff these guys have done, I don't think they are venomous and I do not believe they are only opposed to things. As outlined in their "Traditional Values
Defined" from their webpage, they are for: 1) every human's right to be born 2) fidelity in marriage 3) abstinence
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that is more explicit, "The
Traditional Values Coalition (TVC), long listed as an anti-gay hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center because of its demonizing and false propaganda directed at LGBT people, is casting its net of hate even wider." This can be substituted to blunt the concern of due
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We generally let folks use preferential terms during self-description, so long as they are not definable incorrect. It may help to phrase things in quotes or just outright state the origin of the text ("as outlined in their mission-statement...") so that a reader has a better understanding that they
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This issue reveals one of those unavoidable inconsistencies with
Knowledge. Because SLPC is an extremely well-known civil rights orgnization (whether you are a supporter or detractor of theirs), I feel that including the hate group label in the lede (and body, of course) is clearly appropriate and
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In 1985, Sheldon suggested forcing AIDS victims into âcities of refuge.â In 1992, columnist Jimmy
Breslin said that Sheldon told him that âhomosexuals are dangerous. They proselytize. They come to the door, and if your son answers and nobody is there to stop it, they grab the son and run off with
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This article is hideous and terribly biased. The point is not to analyze the group with a colored lens, it is to describe their make-up, their mission, and their actions (not the reactions to those actions). Please people, get a grip. I wouldn't even start to edit this article, it's just too far
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allows for that type of source as far as I'm aware, so long as secondary scources are used to establish notability and NPOV is kept. It is reasonable to assume they oppose "God hates fags" on the basis that they say so unless evidence comes to light to the contrary e.g. an account of a meeting
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I would agree with this; the two are related, and TVC at the top appears to be both, but the campaigns are not generally about theology, or affirming that teachings are "literally" or "physically" true. In the absence of information about the 43000 churches, I'd suggest a
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story on his page, so they could probably be added to this as well. The former incident puts the TVC in a sympathetic light and makes the media appear biased against them, but the latter could be seen as a call for discrimination and is described thus on that
1377::Traditional Values Coalition is an extremist hate group spreading know falsehoods about entire class of people, fomenting hate and violence all as a supposedly "Christian" organization. That is the tension that should be reported in the Lead per
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It sounds like that is the definition of "traditional values" instead of these are the values that the
Traditional Values coalition subscribe to. I will edit this to a less loaded title, but wanted to get feedback or whatever before I did
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I think the main problem with this article is that it focuses on outlining how far they take their views and who theyâve upset along the way, the actual goals and views on them being more or less the same as those described on
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consider further discussing members/founders of the TVC - you have them listed, but only name them briefly - could help readers better understand the organization (mainly it's roots and goals) by providing more
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Fair point. But of course if it's in the lede it will also be included with more detail in the body. And SPLC will obviously be wikilinked, so readers can go there to find out everything about them. --
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1721:. This tag is meant as a temporary measure to stimulate discussion and editing. It should not be added unless the editor adding it has specific reasons and is willing to discuss them here. â
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1360::These all talk about TVC's hate group status as impacting or informing their work as an organization. The Traditional Values Coalition's label was earned by the group, The SPLC notes:
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merging of the bulleted section about âviews on homosexualityâ to reduce over-emphasis on this subject and unsourced material (unsourced in that it is not in third-party sources)
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I added the phrase "particularly extremist" at the beginning of the article since most "Christian Right" organizations do not go nearly as far as the TVC on anti-gay sentiment.
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based on "their propagation of known falsehoods â claims about LGBT people that have been thoroughly discredited by scientific authorities." Should this be included in the
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As much as I am likely to disagree with the TVC, I'm tagging this NPOV -- the stub as is focuses a lot on what the TVC is against and probably could use some balancing. --
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inclusion in the lede. I wanted to make editors aware of all the other WP articles about groups similar to TVC that have the hate group mention in the lede. --
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consider discussing current issues the TVC is involved in/what their stance is (again to help reader's have a better grasp of what this group actually is/do)
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warranted. Their data is used by many law enforcement agencies, educational institutions and media. It should be in the lede of all of those articles. --
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Points of view about the group should be reported on. However, the current article could be deemed to give undue weight to critics under that policy.
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I edited a few words that seemed POV to me. As much I as I disagree with many of the TVC's views, I feel that
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The addition of templates {{LGBT}} and {{discrimination}} is contested for this and other related articles. The discussion is occurring here:
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listing goes into some detail, but I think we would need a reliable secondary source concerning the listing before it's included in the lead.
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heading, tried to make the lead a better concise summary of the article, and removed the "lead too short" template dating from 2012.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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It should definitely be included in the lead and the reference to the designation in the body of the article should be expanded.
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or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the
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Noted your comment and will consider it. I don't think I have seen that rule in action, according to recent some edits...--
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on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
853:. Of course, I'm not an expert on the subject, so I have no idea what the intended meaning is. Anybody have any thoughts?
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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even notice. Yes, pretty pathetic. The founding of the organization was 1980 (according to themselves and the
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also in "Traditional Values
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
1199:. 15 of them have full WP articles. See below for the 9 that have it in the lede, and the 6 that do not.
1895:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
1660:. It's very well covered as explained by Insomesia above, and further reinforced by 76.189.110.167. â
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http://webarchive.loc.gov/all/20090205004105/http%3A//www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid%3D271
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I am repeating this on all pages in which this new cat was added so communities there can discuss. --
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template if you find an article in a category that is not shown by sources to be appropriate, or the
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http://webarchive.loc.gov/all/20050903205338/http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=1221
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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http://webarchive.loc.gov/all/20050904064434/http://www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=181
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I'd also like to see some footnotes on the bullet points on perspectives on homosexuality.
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weight. Perhaps if there was another paragraph about what the organization does.... â
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Homophobic groups propose FIVE initiatives to take the gay out of the FAIR Education Act
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concept of marriage and ultimately replace it altogether with group sex and polygamy."
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2017:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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decided to close their website indefinitely? Or is the organization defunct?
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of all the anti-LBGT organizations that are labeled as hate groups by the SPLC
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template if the article gives no clear indication for inclusion in a category.
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From what I've seen of it, the whole point of TVC is being against things. --
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Overhaul complete: I moved non-current facts out of the lead and into a new
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Christianity, while the TVC appears to just be conservative in the sense of
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Agree or disagree with TVC, keep fair. not just opposing bloggers points.
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In the short-term, I would suggest the following changes to this article:
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between them. There is, however, a secondary source on the subject here:
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There is broad consensus to include the SPLC designation in the lead. -
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information in the article" if the wiki community keeps removing it.
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in "Traditional Values Defined" it seems a little too subjective/POV
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in the body, as well. That leans against inclusion in the lede. â
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Proposed Transgender Discrimination Protections Spark Debate
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Traditional Values Coalition Jumps on Anti-Shariah Bandwagon
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Traditional Values Coalition Objects To âHate Groupâ Label
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RfC Should SPLC "hate group" designation be in the lead?
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Traditional values defined is a misleading subject title
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statement that does not necessarily apply to the TVC.
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POLITICAL BRIEFING; Gift Comes Back To Haunt Candidate
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this article has changed substantially since May 2008
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2007:This message was posted before February 2018.
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941:is not appropriate here for reasons stated on
1517:- This is a key fact about the organization.
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1283:You Can Run But You Cannot Hide International
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1332:Church Lobby Warns of Transgendered Teachers
1318:weight of the source. Additionally we have:
1195:in the lede (and body). Here is the list of
764:gone. User: Denberino - 14:12, 10 July 2008
1717:I've removed the four year old POV tag as
1342:Gay community angry with Rigell endorsement
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1887:I have just modified 10 external links on
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1737:Talk:American Family Association#Navboxes
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845:article, I notice that it's more about
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1273:Public Advocate of the United States
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1438:WP:UNDUE
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