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science faces. If we only write pages on a mathematical method specifically and separately for physics, for statistics, for machine learning, for engineering, for signal processing etc, then that blocks cross-fertilisation and hinders understanding and progress. Mind you, I'm not saying there couldn't be a page called "Laplace's approximation applied to
Bayesian statistics" -- I just happen to be particularly interested in the unifying view. Sure, other's perspective may be interesting.
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2356:. I get what you mean about trying to make sure readers can access all of the material. That's why I mentioned TWL because I think it's underappreciated and underutilized and you really don't need much to get into it, basically just extended-confirmed user and the willingness to sign up for an account that asks for some information like a real name and email.
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others it isn't. I could go on. But I'm not blaming you for that, since it's most likely the consequence of different authors adding "their" citations over the years. What upset me was the implied duty on my part to first having any fixes to the citation style "discussed" somewhere, as if
Knowledge needed more bureaucracy for petty issues like this. --
2567:, but it's not the only aspect that may be discussed; read the nomination and any other comments carefully before you contribute to the discussion. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.
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For these reasons, I think the version prior to your edit was superior. If you want to add links to Fisher
Information and Bernstein von Mises, I think this would be great, but it should be added much further down in the page, after the necessary concepts have been properly introduced. I look forward
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The reason we have those templates on
Knowledge is to simplify the process of having truly consistent citation styles, both within an article and across different articles. Once you have templates adopted widely, you can change the citation style (if needed) with little effort if needed. And finally,
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The citation style of the article is inconsistent and incomplete as of your latest revert. Some article titles are in quotation marks, others aren't. For some references publication year is written after author name, for others after journal volume. For some references the year is in parentheses, for
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until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of
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I stopped reading after you said the policy "has been dumb from the moment it was created". If this discussion is not going to be based on policy, then I'm withdrawing from it. Editing articles should be in accordance with policy. If you don't like the policy, take it to a policy discussion page,
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until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of
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ok, that sounds good. Yes, the focus is currently on the application in approximate
Bayesian inference. I may add the application to neural networks. Technically this is also Bayesian inference of course, but since these models have very large numbers of parameters, the method is adapted in various
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is both about the value of the integral AND the integrand, and not in the limit. I also think that specialising to "its application in
Bayesian statistics" may really represent a lost opportunity for unification; the (artificial) boundaries between traditional fields epitomises some of the problems
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5) you say "Laplace is justified by
Bernstein von Mises". I think this is not necessarily so, I would say at most "may be justified by". Whether or not an asymptotic property is a justification may greatly depend on the application. Clearly, Laplace himself didn't justify his method by Berstein von
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does not make you right. Invoking WP:OWN is always the last refuge of those that do not have a case. Nor does it make me wrong. The "comical inconsistency" was not introduced by me. Rather it was your edit that introduced it, or at least made it worse, by templating only two of the existing 17
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2) Laplace's
Approximation is used in many numerate fields, such as, but not limited to (Bayesian) Statistics, Physics, etc. The previous page made this clear, and presented its use in Bayesian analysis as an example domain. After your edit, you simply silently assume that the domain is Bayesian
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I know this policy, and it has been dumb from the moment it was created. It was meant to reduce unnecessary bickering over nuances in citation styles, but it led to stubborn, backward-minded users monkeywrenching the process of converging to a uniform citation style throughout
Knowledge. I mean,
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3) your current edit days "Laplace's approximation provides an analytic expression for the posterior probability distribution...". I have several issues with this: a) "analytic expression" is not very precise, it neglects to mention that it is an approximation and that it is
Gaussian, therefore
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Oh ok great. You may already have good sources. Not trying to be patronizing. Just figuring I'd mention it since you were using the Google Books and old NYT links. Those are good too. But there are some really good academic sources behind paywalls. Knowledge Library also gives you De Gruyter,
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Although the fundamental construction is the same in the two pages, I found it difficult to recognise the use that I describe, which is a pity, as it is fairly simple and elegant. I don't really have a strong view whether this should really be one common page or two separate pages, as long as
698:. That's mot new bureaucracy, it's established long-standing bureaucracy. I'm not against making the style consistent, but the one thing that editors contributing to this page have been entirely 100% consistent in is not using templates. I see no good reason for not respecting that.
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until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
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I'm sympathetic to your idea, but you have to admit the article as currently constructed really focuses on the Bayesian application (not just the lead, but the example as well). Are you planning to add all the material and use cases you've mentioned?
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Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.
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Mises. This sentence also uses vocabulary which hasn't yet been defined, for example "posterior" and "large sample". It isn't very understandable to a reader consulting the wikipedia page to figure out what Laplace's Approximation really is.
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I beg to differ with that. And you are now contradicting yourself. If templates are not part of citation style, then inserting them certainly cannot be justified with the rationale of making styles consistent. Besides, preserving styles is a
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Just my 2c, when possible, I suggest you combine the sources like I suggested, bundle the easily accessible Google or NYT primary sources with higher quality academic sources that are more authoritative and less wiggle room for people crying
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I understand what you mean, and I do have a preference for academic sources over newspaper articles. We have to keep in mind, though, that most of our readers do not have JSTOR etc. access, so Google Books links are generally a good idea.
1300:"Gaussian approximation" is much more accurate. b) Laplace's approximation gives both an approximation to the posterior and to the marginal likelihood, this was carefully pointed out in the previous version, but is lost after your edit.
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Your comment was reverted by mistake. I did not realize that I had inadvertently clicked the wrong area of the screen after I reviewed the comment that you've left on the Vernon Jarrett talk page. Sending my apologies for that error.
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You removed a substantive edit on an article on a key figure in European central bank politics with solid data and a good argument because it was a pseudonymous publication. Thanks for promoting critical scrutinty, buddy. Clown show.
1464:, and don't see any reason why selected applications couldn't be discussed on that page. Why shouldn't we have a page called "Laplace's approximation" being about approximating the integrand and integral, not in the limit, and not
2499:) Do you think they have enough notability to do this? Can you see their name in any competitions they have participated in and search? Please help us with this. Thank you.I ,hope (: I apologize if my answer is unclear.
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a consistent citation style without using templates (the article decidedly does not), if you consistently follow some citation manual. But just the fact of "no templates were being used" does not make a citation style
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to happen now if we followed WP policy by the letter: I'm supposed to open a thread on the article talk page to ask whether there's consensus to adopt citation templates, and you would object. And it would be
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2435:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
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I've been contributing to Knowledge for almost 20 years now, but I don't recall ever crossing you in any way. Seriously, elaborate if you can why you would have an apparent personal issue with me. --
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969:. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose
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any specific application field, but including any field where it may be of interest? That would be exactly what was implied by the title, and it happens not to coincide with the current content of
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1707:; "LaMer" isn't even listed among the variants there. I'm still not finding those third-party sources credible. When in doubt, we should go by however the person himself spelled his name.
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focusses on a limiting behaviour of the integral, Laplace's approximation isn't used in the limit, and considers both integral and integrand. This naming distinction may not be universal..
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was so that the former can focus on the particular application in statistics, whereas the latter discusses the concept in more general terms. Since you were the one who originally created
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4) the definition given in terms of MAP and Fisher info only makes sense in the particular use of Laplace's approximation to Bayesian Statistics, unlike the previous version.
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We may disagree on this one, but I prefer the split between Laplace's method in general in one article, and its application in Bayesian statistics in the other. We could ask
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To customise your preferences for automated AfD notifications for articles to which you've significantly contributed (or to opt-out entirely), please visit
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To customise your preferences for automated AfD notifications for articles to which you've significantly contributed (or to opt-out entirely), please visit
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If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one.
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If you cannot provide such a source within seven days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one.
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in progress for the Charles III article. Since you participated in the previous discussion, I thought you might like to know about this one. Cheers.
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1340:, let me know what was your original motivation for the split, and how did you plan to distinguish between the two articles in terms of content? --
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to keep track of when responses are made. At the same time, feel free to send an alert to me on this page about a comment you have left elsewhere.
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2086:. This means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be although other editors disagree. Users are expected to
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To me, these benefits outweigh the "costs" of templates (are there any, really?). But you, for any reason or no reason at all, will disagree. --
722:"Not using templates" is not a citation style, let alone a consistent one. That's like considering "not using a typewriter" a literary genre. --
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thanks bender235. The reason that I wrote "Laplace's approximation" distinct from "Laplace's method" is specified in the first line of the page
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While your contributions are appreciated, I wanted to let you know that I've started a discussion about whether an article that you created,
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1) since wikipedia has encyclopedic nature, it is important that it clearly defines its subject. The previous version's first sentence was:
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to discuss controversial changes and work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an
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2544:, should be deleted, as I am not sure that it is suitable for inclusion in Knowledge in its current form. Your comments are welcome at
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If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see
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If you created the article, please don't be offended. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see
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Casting aspersions makes you irrelevant. Consider yourself ignored (lucky in that respect as there is so much I can say about you).
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I didn't think I was able to move it myself, but it seems I can do so - leaving this here to alert you to the undoing of your move.
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Hallo, You recently moved this, citing "spelling of last name according to VIAF", but all three sources use the spelling "LaMer" (
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In accordance with our policy that Knowledge is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia
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object (search for "Z3988" in the HTML code any article that uses citation templates) that makes the citations machine readable.
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Notability is lacking, played 7 games of college football in 2004 for the Colorado State Rams. Never played in the NFL. Fails
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I'm not sure I understand your general plan for these two articles. Why couldn't selected applications also be discussed in
34:, for better formatting. You can do that by simply pressing the plus sign (+) or "new section" on the top of this page. And
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are unanimous in their spelling. Plus, he seems to have spelled his own name "La Mer" in all his publications (example:
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I have couple of issues with your two recent 2023-02-15 edits to the page on Laplace's Approximation. I'll explain:
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about effectively contributing to such discussions is worth a read. The most common issue in these discussions is
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I need a person to write an article about a public servant. What is the process? How do I get in touch with you!
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I don't think the distinction right now is really "more general" vs "specific to various fields". The current
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Now to the other point: what I wrote was "no templates" is not a consistent citation style. You can certainly
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You're free to reserve the right to be offended on behalf of a policy. I'm sorry your feelings were hurt. --
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covers this point; showing that the guidelines recognise templates as part of the style even if you don't.
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unfragmented. If you leave a comment for me here, I will most likely respond to it on this same page—
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Worldcat is not an authority control. I was talking about actual national libaries, like
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Hey, wanted to see if you had an account on this, as it has a tremendous JSTOR access.
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I don't want to sink to your level. Anyway, you made yourself irrelevant (forever).
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which is a concise description of what it actually is. But your edit deletes this.
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has been speedily deleted from Knowledge. This was done for the following reason:
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I do have JSTOR access already from work, but thank you for letting me know. --
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/John Marshall High School (Richmond, Virginia)
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is almost exclusively about the value of the integral in the limit, whereas
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If you have any questions, please leave a comment here and prepend it with
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Hey Bender, are you able to verify and approve the wiki article I created?
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will be deleted after seven days unless it has at least one reference to a
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will be deleted after seven days unless it has at least one reference to a
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everything is a clear as possible. A separate page seemed easiest for me.
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Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing
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Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing
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approximation to a (twice differentiable) un-normalised target density.
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Knowledge:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 May 1 § Adriel Jasmear Green
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made;
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Hello, Bender235. It has been over six months since you last edited the
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Hello, Bender235. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that
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describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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on criteria that are relevant to establish this person's notability. --
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are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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The use of citation templates is neither encouraged nor discouraged:
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Hello Bender235, and thank you for your contributions to Knowledge.
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Suggest you both take this offline and hat the thread starting with
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and in my opinion most importantly: these templates create a hidden
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Malcolm Jones (American football)
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Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced.
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Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced.
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as it's about personal contributors and not this article.
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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article
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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article
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process can result in deletion without discussion, and
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process can result in deletion without discussion, and
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A discussion is taking place as to whether the article
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You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the
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You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the
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I was under the impression that the whole reason why
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Creating an article is fairly simple. Have a look at
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to determine whether its use and function meets the
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to determine whether its use and function meets the
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were found precious. That's what you are, always. --
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Far from unanimous: Worldcat is not even consistent
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is suitable for inclusion in Knowledge according to
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Them's the rules. Feel free to acquaint yourself on
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If you want to leave a message, please do it at the
904:was updated with an item that involved the article
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1114:, and thanks for your contributions to Knowledge.
1937:that directly supports material in the article.
1854:that directly supports material in the article.
2510:on how to write an article yourself, as well as
1923:because it appears to have no references. Under
1917:Bill Miller (American football coach, born 1956)
1903:Bill Miller (American football coach, born 1956)
1840:because it appears to have no references. Under
2041:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Deunta Williams
2736:the entry on the Templates for discussion page
2542:John Marshall High School (Richmond, Virginia)
2532:John Marshall High School (Richmond, Virginia)
1190:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Gawdat al-Malt
1052:If the page has already been deleted, you can
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1460:I'm not sure why you think I have plans for
1110:Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable
1059:Thank you for your submission to Knowledge.
1041:, so if you wish to retain the page, please
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2200:Much to "say about me"? Don't hold back. --
2312:Cambridge, EbscoHost, Proquest, Gale, etc
2128:. In some cases, it may be appropriate to
2082:according to the reverts you have made on
694:The need for a discussion is explained at
2078:You currently appear to be engaged in an
2696:My bad, apologies for wasting your time
254:I figured it must've been by mistake. --
1568:NAS biog memoir - ignore the title page
1389:for additional opinions if you want. --
1272:recent edits to Laplace's Approximation
602:notice, but please explain why in your
387:notice, but please explain why in your
2655:Hi, I see you've contributed a lot to
1948:. Once you have provided at least one
1865:. Once you have provided at least one
1981:Charles III requested move discussion
497:Draft:Excel High School (Alabama) (2)
483:Draft:Excel High School (Alabama) (2)
2495:This person needs a Knowledge page.(
2415:2023 Arbitration Committee elections
2132:. If you engage in an edit war, you
1049:that it be moved to your userspace.
949:2022 Arbitration Committee elections
2678:What I contributed wasn't content,
2555:usually run for seven days and are
2399:ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message
2029:Knowledge's policies and guidelines
1180:Knowledge's policies and guidelines
1056:so you can continue working on it.
933:ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message
523:Knowledge's policies and guidelines
439:I need a Person to Write an Article
297:Knowledge's policies and guidelines
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2038:The discussion will take place at
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306:The discussion will take place at
14:
2754:
2680:just fixed the bibliography style
2586:tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)
2130:request temporary page protection
1188:The article will be discussed at
754:without good reason and consensus
288:Malcolm Jones (American football)
272:Malcolm Jones (American football)
40:with four tildes, like this: ~~~~
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2012:
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1134:Send New Year cheer by adding {{
1028:
938:
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462:for instructions and details. --
278:
82:
2659:, would you be interested in a
2636:until a consensus is reached.
2454:and submit your choices on the
2275:Knowledge:The Knowledge Library
1799:until a consensus is reached.
988:and submit your choices on the
510:that was holding up a page move
2744:21:28, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
2090:with others, to avoid editing
1136:subst:Happy New Year fireworks
862:14:34, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
848:14:31, 30 September 2022 (UTC)
836:not fight it out in articles.
831:17:34, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
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1782:Stochastic heat equation
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896:On 16 October 2022,
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1705:Library of Congress
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2553:discussions
2457:voting page
2244:WP:ADVOCACY
2174:Moved from
2088:collaborate
1985:There is a
1574:. See also
991:voting page
900:In the news
816:Dublin Core
810:consistent.
743:WP:STYLEVAR
74:Thank you!
49:discussions
30:, as a new
2578:. Thanks!
2565:notability
2512:WP:ATHLETE
2441:topic bans
2386:Rickym1008
2154:Cute, but
1991:Rreagan007
1387:WT:WPSTATS
1061:FireflyBot
975:topic bans
758:explicitly
696:WP:CITEVAR
514:Under the
45:Attention:
2729:has been
2698:Kowal2701
2684:bender235
2665:Kowal2701
2561:Our guide
2551:Deletion
2516:bender235
2493:Bender235
2437:site bans
2339:bender235
2299:bender235
2230:bender235
2202:bender235
2160:bender235
2118:talk page
2094:, and to
2055:SDZeroBot
1946:help desk
1919:has been
1863:help desk
1836:has been
1713:bender235
1643:bender235
1631:It seems
1528:Inference
1513:bender235
1474:Inference
1448:bender235
1414:Inference
1391:bender235
1373:Inference
1342:bender235
1315:Inference
1246:mainspace
1106:Bender235
1045:again or
971:site bans
854:bender235
823:bender235
724:bender235
682:bender235
637:consensus
584:Fails GNG
575:has been
495:The page
464:bender235
422:consensus
356:has been
321:SDZeroBot
256:bender235
215:bender235
69:watchlist
2216:M.Bitton
2188:M.Bitton
2141:M.Bitton
2124:or seek
2080:edit war
1968:jlwoodwa
1885:jlwoodwa
1804:1234qwer
1801:1234qwer
1466:assuming
1287:Gaussian
1112:New Year
839:Spinning
800:only you
795:supposed
763:Spinning
739:globally
701:Spinning
665:Spinning
191:unsigned
89:Archives
2559:votes.
2487:Request
2464:NoACEMM
2136:blocked
2134:may be
2033:deleted
1927:, this
1844:, this
1202:Curbon7
1184:deleted
1047:request
1043:edit it
998:NoACEMM
301:deleted
233:Hello,
102:2005–07
32:section
20:welcome
18:Hello,
2592:Aunva6
2508:WP:1ST
2491:Hey, @
2156:WP:DTR
1661:La Mer
1526:ways.
918:PFHLai
606:or on
460:WP:1ST
391:or on
367:WP:GNG
211:WP:BLP
28:bottom
2359:Andre
2315:Andre
2283:Andre
2249:Andre
1962:tag.
1879:tag.
1657:LaMer
1235:Draft
1148:Moops
1121:Moops
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768:Spark
706:Spark
670:Spark
244:Lwalt
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2682:. --
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213:. --
199:talk
158:2021
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1659:or
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