748:
Point being that there are many that disagree that this article is still an ad, including the person that AFD'd the site, see the talk page. According to the deletion policy, articles that just need help are not candidates for deletion. Therefore, comments to the potentiality of the article are valid
665:
What do you mean "current format?" At this moment in time, it's back to advertising. If you're asking that we revert to the cleanest version, then protect it, just so that we can preserve a mention of Yet
Another Open Source Program (and a management one at that), I think that's too much, too far.
791:
way to compare and contrast CMS software due to the rigorous community input. Including this type of software should not be discouraged on
Knowledge; it should in fact be encouraged. Also, forks in open source projects are extremely important. It is highly likely that the two packages will quickly
627:
but don't merge - Joomla! is not the new name of Mambo they are separate products. While Joomla 1.0 will to a large degree be the same as the current Mambo release the two projects will diverge into separate products in the (near) future. This article is being updated and no longer looks like an
859:
Keeping this in mind, as well as the fact that I highly doubt it was one of Joomla!'s developers that wrote this article (all it took was one mention on
Slashdot) I do not think the reason cited is a valid reason for deletion. Adding an NPOV tag and letting others fix it would have sufficed.
796:(I think it ought to be here) to find a careful articulation of the differences between the forks. Thus, don't combine. (Oh, and of all types of open source projects to include, it seems CMS systems are pretty important, given the number of people / companies who build sites using them.)
416:! Never be to hasty: Joomla is new - But has a bigger community power than Mambo. You will not be able to work on this article, if you delete it. The article will just reapear and all work will be done twice - so why? Just wait two weeks and be patiant, please! --
27:
This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for
Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.
510:. The forum at has had 3211 members join in three weeks, so don't tell me Joomla! doesn't have a large number of people following. I think it is Knowledge worthy. Furthermore, I don't see why the article should be deleted because it list features,
341:
that codebase any particular day, well, that's an issue that just has to wait. So, I would rather vote for merge to either this article or the other, or keep both. If people take the "kill them both, let God sort them out" attitude, that's
160:
what is going on here? Do you want to delete every article about Open Source software? Than continue with typo3, drupal, etc. - Sorry, but I don't understand it: Why don't you IMPROVE these articles instead of deleting everthing you don't
324:
Look, the folks behind Mambo and Joomla have recently been through several, not very damn nice wars and fights and whatnot regarding the ownership of the Mambo code. (You could make a really informative article on those fights
475:, since it's been edited to something non-ad-like, and I have a soft spot in my heart for open-source stuff. It would be good to have something written about the "zillions" of sites this software supposedly supports, though.
738:
you present, no thanks. Those others are NPOV. The votes are about the article, not the potential article, not the ideal article, not the value of the subject of the article, necessarily, the virtues of the subject, etc.
833:
This event appears likely to be significant in the history of Open Source and should be kept active in order to capture events as they happen. If it later proves not to have been, you can alway change or remove it
541:* nominated Joomla! for speedy delete because initially it looked thoroughly like a corporate advertisement, open-source program or not. (I didn't know 'advertisement' wasn't a speedy criterion at the time.) --
724:
I could go on but I think I have made my point. At what point do you draw the line. Before you know it, you have deleted every article on
Knowledge because they MIGHT have some sort of advertisement function.
666:
Feature lists are not content. Claims about how it will solve all my problems are not encyclopedic. Concentrate on the few facts, on the significance. If there isn't any, then realize that an
776:
765:, since IIRC all the lead-developers left Mambo and formed this. If Mambo was worthy of an article I'm sure this one is too, even if it needs rewriting to conform to NPOV. --
628:
advertisement. It just needs a little TLC. To delete this would be wrong as Joomla! will be a major player in the CMS world and no other CMS has been put up for deletion.
143:
So there is no "misuse" of
Knowledge. Joomla! is an Open Source and community based project. Many former Mambo-Users announced to follow the Core Developer Team to Joomla!
638:: Advertising. That's all we need: advertising. Knowledge does not allow ads for free products (WP:NOT Freshmeat.org), commercial products, arts councils, bands, or
779:
526:
just doesn't like Mambo or Joomla! because he nominated both of these articles for deletion, yet other open source CMS articles haven't been nominated for deletion.
181:
And I don't understand why people would post promotespeak into an encyclopedia and expect others to clean it up. Hmm, Typo3 and Drupal, you say? Checking it out.
562:
835:
838:
595:
448:
607:
445:
420:
319:
297:
264:
255:
800:
545:
479:
384:
350:
753:
603:
but don't merge. Joomla and Mambo may well become very different things. Also, even if Mambo itself disappears, an entry for it (Mambo) should remain.
494:
240:
189:
154:
392:: Mambo is certainly a notable piece of open source software, and I expect its derivatives (particularly since this one has most/all of the dev team)
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273:
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83:
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619:
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519:
467:
228:
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167:
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558:
821:
431:
164:
557:- Advertising alone does not make something deletable. This is certainly notable, so it could do with improvement, but do not delete it!
305:
still delete as non-notable, unless something is forthcoming to say why this is a particularly notable and "pretty damn important"
172:
Because we still have a little sense of dignity left. We still want to be taken seriously by more than just
Internet anarchists. /
853:"Writing glowing articles on one's own company (...) is normally dealt with by editing the article for a neutral point of view."
70:
50:
45:
824:
845:
460:. This isn't a company advert. It's about a piece of software that happens to be free, open source, and widely used.
35:
After discounting widespread sockpuppetry in defense of the article, final vote count stands at 9 delete, 8 keep.
655:
202:
due to its exposure through
Knowledge. Go ahead, nominate that too! Completely freaking shiver-inducing, that! --
17:
876:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an
877:
787:
I agree with
Stephanos Geogios John immediately above me. In fact, Knowledge has the unique abiilty to be the
487:- The new content is a good improvement and looks encyclopedic, but the subject matter doesn't look notable. -
808:. I think the article has good info on Joomla. It is no better or no worse than entries on other CMS entries.
62:
Advertisement isn't a speedy criterion, unfortunately, but please delete this misuse of
Knowledge soonest.
775:. Knowledge is a very good tool for a quick comparison of content management systems and other software.
654:
in current format. The first attempt was nothing but an ad, but the changes have improved the article.
818:
I edited this article to have it more encyclopdian - I hope this is an improvement to prevent deletion.
615:
but don't merge. Joomla and Mambo are very different things. I think all the CMS's should be listed.
306:
39:
734:
There is a big difference between a potential and actual ad. This is an actual ad. As for the
146:
You're right, that one's advertising as well, thanks for pointing it out. I'll nominate it.
315:
293:
251:
572:
and no merge - seems like a fairly significant piece of software that is even featured on
8:
576:
Maybe the old revision of the article sounded too advertisement-like and unencyclopedic?—
186:
151:
67:
36:
573:
812:
712:
592:
464:
368:. Mambo and its descentants are pretty damn important CMSes in this day and age. --
589:
750:
735:
527:
417:
310:
288:
246:
194:
Oh yeah, go ahead, nominate all of them! There's also this little proggie called
55:
522:
all list their features and those aren't candidates for deletion. I think this
797:
542:
476:
402:
381:
198:
that is being promoted on Knowledge and the authors are getting money off it -
118:
notability; Knowledge is not a crystal ball for the future. Stand by my vote.
861:
766:
523:
488:
406:
261:
237:
182:
173:
147:
130:
this article - if you want to delete this new article about the Successor to
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63:
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and the virtues of the subject matter are to be taken into consideration. --
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347:
270:
203:
80:
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a newly released software product, so I'm doubtful about notability too).
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726:
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507:
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I still can not understand, why you guys didn't try to improve it :-( --
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Or delete the entries on all of the wiki software, etc., etc., as well.
691:
577:
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begin to become sufficiently different to force users to have to look
703:
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397:
337:
on zillions of sites. There's no way to deny that. What they want to
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Foot! *stomp* Bullet! *tink* Gun! *clank* Aim! *gnnh* Fire! *BLAM* --
245:
Because nn-bio is a CSD criterion. nn-company isn't. I wish it were.
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709:
700:
694:
515:
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685:
260:
What I mean is that speedy should be just a tad more flexible. /
56:
870:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
718:
706:
688:
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is not the right place for this. 02:32, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
457:
333:(Mambo, Mambo's GPL version, and now this travestry) are being
715:
682:
511:
502:- I think if Knowledge can have articles for 8 forks of
396:
be notable. I'm not convinced that it is currently. —
642:
Salt the earth because of the hosiery parade above.
506:, then it should have an article about a fork of
880:). No further edits should be made to this page.
590:http://www.mamboportal.com/content/view/2029/2/
831:I have added content in hopes to keep it also.
588:and merge, Joomla! is the new name of Mambo -
114:I'm still not convinced of this software's
846:Replies_to_common_objections#Advertisers
14:
236:Why are we even voting about this? /
136:you have to delete this article too:
662:.:. 17:48, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
23:
24:
892:
456:And merge into Mambo, along with
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
864:14:25, September 9, 2005 (UTC)
769:03:54, September 7, 2005 (UTC)
566:17:35, September 3, 2005 (UTC)
530:19:18, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
122:14:49, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
109:18:49, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
95:18:48, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
51:23:32, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
13:
1:
839:22:11, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
825:22:32, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
801:04:12, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
780:09:08, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
754:05:03, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
744:02:32, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
730:23:26, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
647:13:47, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
620:08:14, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
608:00:08, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
596:18:52, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
581:18:43, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
546:01:41, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
495:14:36, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
480:14:07, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
468:13:29, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
449:10:34, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
435:09:39, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
421:07:19, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
385:02:07, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
373:22:54, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
351:23:50, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
320:23:37, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
298:22:06, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
274:22:54, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
265:22:14, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
256:22:06, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
241:21:55, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
229:21:33, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
207:23:43, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
190:23:21, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
177:23:13, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
168:22:18, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
155:21:56, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
84:18:41, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
71:18:21, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
31:The result of the debate was
632:08:55 4 September 2005 (UTC)
329:Lots of interesting stuff.)
224:- Not Wiki-worthy enough...
7:
346:too harsh in my opinion. --
10:
897:
410:02:21:43, 2005-09-02 (UTC)
678:or delete the following:
636:Delete and salt the earth
307:Content Management System
873:Please do not modify it.
309:amongst all the others.
656:Knowledge is not a book
785:Keep, and don't merge.
574:a Slashdot article.
331:Mambo's descentants
878:undeletion request
394:will at some point
287:, please, delete.
103:Advertisement (for
537:For the record, *
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563:Ambush Commander
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836:207.212.165.197
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736:false dichotomy
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37:Fernando Rizo
34:
33:No consensus.
29:
19:
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668:encyclopedia
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593:Applegoddess
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499:
484:
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446:212.101.64.4
441:
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418:Sputnik(.de)
413:
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389:
380:per above.
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40:
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30:
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722:Fedora_Core
680:Mambo_(CMS)
652:Strong Keep
366:Mambo (CMS)
138:Mambo_(CMS)
132:Mambo_(CMS)
751:Wrobertson
692:Civicspace
630:Johnny Boy
605:rlongstaff
528:Shoffman11
382:Dottore So
311:Tonywalton
289:Tonywalton
247:Tonywalton
200:especially
161:like??????
91:as above.
798:Batsonjay
794:somewhere
704:Mediawiki
698:Wordpress
543:Fang Aili
477:Fang Aili
196:Mediawiki
862:TexasDex
767:TexasDex
710:SugarCRM
701:Tikiwiki
695:Php_nuke
524:Bishonen
516:PHP-Nuke
504:PHP-Nuke
183:Bishonen
148:Bishonen
64:Bishonen
834:then.--
713:Windows
686:Geeklog
491:HAIRBOY
390:Comment
370:Wwwwolf
348:Wwwwolf
303:Comment
271:Wwwwolf
204:Wwwwolf
116:current
81:DV8 2XL
57:Joomla!
741:Geogre
727:Kf4bdy
719:Redhat
707:Pmwiki
689:Drupal
660:Jareth
644:Geogre
617:Kf4bdy
518:, and
465:(talk)
462:Friday
458:Joomla
378:Delete
327:alone.
285:Delete
226:UniReb
222:Delete
120:Sliggy
107:Sliggy
99:Delete
89:Delete
77:Delete
844:From
822:Opi27
813:Note:
716:Linux
683:Typo3
658:. .:.
578:Tokek
512:XOOPS
508:Mambo
485:Merge
432:Holmi
364:from
362:Merge
344:a bit
262:Peter
238:Peter
174:Peter
165:Opi27
16:<
806:Keep
789:best
773:Keep
763:Keep
676:Keep
625:Keep
613:Keep
601:Keep
586:Keep
570:Keep
555:Keep
520:E107
500:Keep
473:Keep
454:Keep
442:Keep
430:! --
428:Keep
414:Keep
403:Talk
398:Lomn
358:Keep
339:call
335:used
316:Talk
294:Talk
252:Talk
187:talk
152:talk
141:!!!
128:KEEP
79:Ad.
68:talk
777:SGJ
407:RfC
360:or
860:--
848::
560:—
514:,
405:/
400:|
185:|
163:--
150:|
134:,
101:.
93:Al
66:|
539:I
489:C
313:|
291:|
249:|
47:C
44:/
41:T
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