189:'s penultimate Broadway musical, has always been problematical. Hard to produce because it needs a plausibly Asian cast, it came under fire after the civil rights revolution for what was seen by some as an outdated view of Asian-Americans. Rarely produced for forty years after the 1961 film version appeared, the script was entirely rewritten in 2001 for an equally controversial, but more politically correct version which did very well in Los Angeles but did badly on Broadway. Brianboulton has been kind enough to give it an outside review. We should say that the coverage of Rodgers and Hammerstein on wiki is poor, and we hope this will prove an example of how it can be improved. Thanks to Laser Beam for letting this run at this time.
1571:: Disclosure: I did a detailed review of the article on the talkpage; the issues I raised have been properly addressed, and the article has developed significantly since then. I concur with the general plaudits bestowed by other reviewers. As to the "oppose", the opposer has had ample opportunity to clarify the basis for the objection and has not done so. His (?) concern, whatever it is, is shared by no one else and can now, I think, be safely disregarded.
1726:, which warns, "be sure to consult the primary source material to make sure you get it right", noting that relying on secondary works, in this limited context, is more likely to cause inaccuracies. We did, of course, consider the comments of reviewers and other commentators to help us understand what plot points were the most important ones to devote our limited space to. --
627:"a bizarre pastiche of limping mediocracy" – did the critic really write "mediocracy" rather than "mediocrity"? The Oxford English Dictionary defines the former as "Government by the mediocre; a system within which mediocrity is rewarded", which doesn't seem to have much to do with the plot as described in the article.
1382:. The article meets the specified guidelines for Musical Theatre articles. Most importantly, the article clearly shows the problems that the creative people (Rodgers and Hammerstein) had with this subject matter, and also clearly shows the differences between the major productions. References are complete.
1397:
Many thanks for the support. JeanColumbia is one of the most knowledgeable and best editors in the musical theatre area. Three supports, all checks done. Regarding Fasach Nua's oppose, I've stated that I view it as inactionable. I asked for clarification at his talk page, most courteously, I feel
404:
Dear SSilvers, sorry for my late reply. I was afraid that I was late enough that the FAC was closed, but whew! Generally song CD or vinyl covers are used in a max resolution of 300x300, hence that is my reason for asking you to do so. You can reduce the size anytime
Wehwalt, you don't need a new scan
1193:
I thought about querying this source in my earlier check. However, since the citation relates only to the fact of Lea
Salonga's nomination for a Drama League award, I felt it was OK. No doubt the nomination is verifiable elsewhere if this source is thought doubtful, but I think in the circumstances
1467:. It is always difficult to decide the optimal place for the synopsis, but in this article, it is even more difficult, because there is a brief plot summary of the Lee novel, then a plot summary of the original 1958 version of the musical, and thirdly a plot summary of the 2002 Hwang version. --
1787:
I consider it a very limited exception. If you notice, we did cite at the end of the 2002 plot, to ninety pages or so of the Hwang book. Since it is not unusual for there to be changes in plot (though rarely this extreme!) I think that WP:PLOTSUM should only be used once in an article. Really,
290:
Chinatown, and the cover art reinforces the setting and period of the musical. So, the image provides visual identification of much that is described in the 1958 plot summary. Would it solve the problem if the image were moved there, or next to he mention of the recording, and/or if we added a
1788:
though, with a published script, there is no trouble about verifiability, the book can be easily purchased or a script obtained from the publisher. Back in the day, most plays seem to have had their scripts published as books, a custom which seems to have fallen by the wayside.--
1402:. That's his right of course, it's his talk page, but there is no way I can address that oppose without removing the image, and without an explanation, I am reluctant to do so. I ask that if this stands as it is, that the delegate disregard the oppose under the rules.--
389:
I agree with
Wehwalt. It is displayed at the same resolution that Amazon.com displays it. In fact, the source is Amazon.com, so it is widely available on the internet at this resolution, and the clarity of the image is not adequate for any commercial use. --
340:
I've asked for clarification on his talk. Right now, I don't consider it an actionable oppose. I want the best for all my articles and will gladly make adjustments in them as necessary, but I'm at something at a loss. In my last FAC,
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I think he means that the image doesn't have significant meaning in the article to include it. It has the regular rational, but not one that sepcifically explains why the image is needed or what sepcific purpose it serves other than eye
828:: Consistency required with "accessed" and "retrieved" in the reflist. Otherwise no queried withe the sources. A very modest amount of spotchecks done. Will try a general review later (I can't usually pass up on operas or musicals).
1441:: My only hesitation is that the synposis material is poorly organized, but the editors say that this is the standard for musical theater articles, which implicates a broader problem than this article could be expected to resolve.
372:
Can you explain why that is necessary? I don't happen to own the CD and it would be a considerable inconvenience to obtain a new scan. Surely there are no commercial opportunities for the copyright holder that we are interfering
1754:
I've already supported, so this isn't an impediment, but have you considered citing the plot details to the published scripts? I've seen that done for other FA plots, and it both improves the article and brings it into line with
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guidelines (like those of the Opera project, film project, etc.) all permit plot summaries to be written by directly summarizing the published script. Indeed, the closest thing that
Knowledge has to a guideline on this is
428:– An excellent article. I make no comment on the images (not my area of expertise), but all other FA criteria seem to me to be met. A few minor quibbles, none of which affect my support for the promotion of the article:
1086:
was rated the # 1 favorite
Website for Broadway information by 64% of those who took the poll. They review every Broadway show. Their chief reviewer is Matthew Murray, who wrote the review cited to. Here is a
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for several important ones including Best Book. Perhaps this info could be added into the prose? In any case, this is a minor quibble and in no way deters from the article. It would be a well-deserved FA.
700:
I don't think so. It is very common in
American usage. I'd hate to lose it as a descriptive term and instead have to use awkward words like "unfavorable" throughout these musical theatre articles. --
345:, Fasach Nua did not oppose, but enquired why I was using a 2010 penny and if I intended to keep it the current year. I explained, but I never heard back from him. I hope he will be more clear.--
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is "one of the best known and most popular Web sites covering the New York theater scene; and an editor, columnist, and critic for
BroadwayStars.com, New York’s foremost theater news aggregator".
286:, with the figures illustrating various activities of the Chinese-American characters in the show. This helps the reader to understand the story-line of the musical, which depicts such an upbeat
532:"central theme – a theme coursing through much 20th-century American literature…" – I think you should attribute this quote in the text; as it stands it implies that Hammerstein is being quoted.
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I would just suggest one thing, lower the resolution of the cover to 300x300 pixels, and then it is fine to go. If Fasach Nua doesnot bother to explain properly, I will strike out the oppose. —
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I think this is OK in
American usage, and here it is more descriptive of the fact that there are two, whereas I think that successive here usually is used to indicate more than two. --
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Thanks for the support, I'll get on this later today. I will doublecheck the quotes, sometimes these things happen through autocomplete or a misguided correction along the way--
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The problem with the PLOTSUM essay is that it, like all other essays, has no actual weight in terms of policy/guideline. It's just someone's opinion, and directly contradicts
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board. The site also includes the very helpful The Cast Album
Database. The owners, editors and publishers of the site are John Gillespie, Ann Miner and Michael T. Reynolds
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1507:: An excellent article - in depth and well sourced. One minor suggestion - I note that the prose section on the 2002 revival mentions that it won no Tonys. However, it was
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723:" use of repetitive Eastern musical structures" – I thought s-apostrophe-s was the UK, rather than the US, usage; would s-apostrophe be more idiomatic here?
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The image is on the 1958 original cast album and was also used by the producers on other publicity materials. It shows an upbeat
Chinatown in front of the
1373:
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back-to-back Broadway flops" – I wonder if "back-to-back" (for "successive") has yet become formal English usage suitable for an encyclopaedia article.
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is an extensive website founded in 2000 that provides information about Broadway and other NY theatre and theatre in other U.S. cities. In an
1551:: SSilvers and Wehwalt have done a first-class job on improving this article about a lesser known R & H show. It deserves to be an FA. --
501:"In interviews, however, Hammerstein noted" – odd verb to use: presumably he had already noted the fact and in interviews simply mentioned it.
1488:: This article is well written and has a great number of sources. I cannot think of one good reason for it not to be a featured article.
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indicates that the history section should go before the synopsis, although in some articles, we put the synopsis higher. See
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1699:. Very nice article. I'd much prefer it if the two plot summaries (1958 and 2002) were sourced to secondary sources, per
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1774:. The same goes for the Wikiproject advice. That said, I've already supported; I recognize that people typically ignore
75:
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Thirteen supports. This may be a record. Well, as I can't slide some of them across the table to my other FAC,
1740:
Thanks as well. I read both published scripts personally, and summarized the major plot details in each case.--
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Surely the artist biography in the press section of a significant star's website is an acceptable source.--
436:
Is the third associate Fields or Field? You refer to him four times as the former and twice as the latter.
1157:. She graduated from New York University's School of Journalism and became a magazine editor and writer.
109:
322:) to which the nominator asked, "is this your usual generic 'no fair use images ever' oppose?" to which
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318:
would be less cryptic and more helpful. I saw another similar blocking comment from this editor today (
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sentence to the text to describe how the album cover art reflects the plot and setting of the show? --
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1601:
You'll hoard all of the extras and other users will have to pay you a fortune to get some of them. :P
1108:, a monthly technical theater trade publication, and and an associate editor at TheaterMania.com.
63:
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when it comes to plot summaries, so I'm certainly not going to hold it against this fine article.
595:"and even after he was released from the hospital" – not sure what "even" adds to the meaning here
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Thanks to all. I don't think I've ever had ten supports before. Can I save some for later?--
1104:. Murray is a graduate of Western Washington University. He was previously senior editor at
690:"the critics mostly panned it" – slightly too informal a phrase for an encyclopaedia, perhaps?
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Image caption: Virginia Theatre marqees showing Flower Drum Song – should this be "marquees"?
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answered with the one word "Yes". I don't find this sort of approach colleaguely or helpful.
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CurtainUp.com is an online theater magazine founded in 1996. Its editor and publisher is
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You vary between "Retrieved" and "accessed" – would it not be preferable to be consistent?
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We are nominating this for featured article because... we believe it meets the criteria.
8:
1655:: Very nice work. Its very informative, well sourced and written and neutral. Great job--
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1806:, perhaps some of the reviewers will mosey over there if they are interested.--
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Ref 37: The "" text messes up the external link thing. Place <nowiki: -->
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Hi. I'm not sure what you mean by this one. Thanks for the comments! --
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Looks good to go to me. The article meets all the criteria for FA status.
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Fixed now? If not, we should not that it requires registration. --
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Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
1624:- You guys did a brilliant job with the article. Support from me.--
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conducted by The League of American Theatres and Producers, Inc.,
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I didn't really come clear on that one, The "all" in the title (
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Ref 100: "30 September 2001" goes against your date consistency.
224:
Well, actually, it has one. Do you mean it is insufficient?--
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Ref 37: "1 December 2010" goes against your date consistency.
542:
Fixed by removing Hammerstein's name from the sentence. --
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Yeah, it's still not coming up, so I guess just note that.
564:"The team found it challenging" – does that mean difficult?
405:
for it. And has Fasach Nua bothered to explain anything? —
1420:: Excellent article. I have really no issues about this.--
1102:
and here is an archive of articles he has written for them
1149:, whose review we are citing. Sommer is a member of the
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that he has written on the site. Murray also writes for
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Knowledge:WikiProject Musical Theatre/Article Structure
1703:, but there doesn't seem to be consensus on that yet.
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Featured article candidates/Flower Drum Song/archive1
1089:
list of (and links to) over 400 reviews and articles
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there in fact a problem at all? It would be good if
810:Thanks, Tim riley, for these helpful comments! --
1832:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
985:Ref 83: "Retrieved December 1, 2020", wrong year.
238:No, I mean it does not have a fair use rationale
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
845:Fixed -- everything says "Retrieved" now. --
1838:No further edits should be made to this page.
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
1398:I've always gotten along with Fasach Nua.
41:Knowledge talk:Featured article candidates
920:Ref 61: This leads me to some login page.
1360:- no dabs, no external link problems. --
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18:Knowledge:Featured article candidates
1010:Ref 93: "pp. 352–53.." spare period.
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1247:) should be capitalized (I think).
1215:The 101 Greatest Shows of all Time
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1804:nickel/archive1 Buffalo nickel
1340:Many thanks for the support.--
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1530:Good suggestion. Done. --
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1295:All my comments were fixed.
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1269:That's all I see right now.
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7:
1119:He is also a member of the
963:OK, added (now fn 63). --
209:lacks a fair use rationale
31:featured article nomination
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1241:The 101 Greatest Shows of
1217:all should be capitalized.
902:Fixed? Please check. --
464:Lead (and repeated later)
895:codes around the "" text.
207:File:Flower drum 1958.jpg
1835:Please do not modify it.
1400:He removed it unanswered
56:16:26, 15 December 2010
36:Please do not modify it.
1100:and BroadwayStars.com,
623:Subsequent productions
497:Genesis of the musical
187:Rodgers and Hammerstein
1155:Outer Critic's Circle
719:Music and recordings
1724:WP:PLOTSUM#Citations
1423:♫Greatorangepumpkin♫
1194:this is acceptable.
1121:Theatre World Awards
560:Casting and tryouts
1250:Ah! OK, done. --
1080:online Harris Poll
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863:Reference comments
284:Golden Gate Bridge
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1168:(ref 101) a
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1716:WP:MUSICALS
1461:WP:MUSICALS
1164:What makes
1134:(ref 84) a
1130:What makes
1094:PC Magazine
1064:(ref 83) a
1060:What makes
1042:Fixed. --
1017:Fixed. --
992:Fixed. --
875:Fixed. --
765:Fixed. --
751:References
733:Fixed. --
669:Fixed. --
637:Fixed. --
605:Fixed. --
574:Fixed. --
511:Fixed. --
446:Fixed. --
54:Laser brain
1553:Derek Ross
1151:Drama Desk
1098:(bio here)
240:Fasach Nua
211:Fasach Nua
1509:nominated
783:Tim riley
328:Tim riley
1728:Ssilvers
1674:Contribs
1532:Ssilvers
1469:Ssilvers
1324:Jack1956
1252:Ssilvers
1227:Ssilvers
1153:and the
1110:PC World
1044:Ssilvers
1019:Ssilvers
994:Ssilvers
965:Ssilvers
929:Ssilvers
904:Ssilvers
877:Ssilvers
847:Ssilvers
812:Ssilvers
767:Ssilvers
735:Ssilvers
703:Ssilvers
671:Ssilvers
639:Ssilvers
607:Ssilvers
576:Ssilvers
544:Ssilvers
513:Ssilvers
481:Ssilvers
448:Ssilvers
392:Ssilvers
293:Ssilvers
256:candy.--
166:Ssilvers
134:Analysis
50:promoted
1808:Wehwalt
1790:Wehwalt
1742:Wehwalt
1697:Support
1679:Georgia
1653:Support
1642:Talk2Me
1622:Support
1589:Wehwalt
1569:Support
1549:Support
1514:Smatprt
1505:Support
1486:Support
1439:Support
1418:Support
1404:Wehwalt
1380:Support
1342:Wehwalt
1320:Support
1293:Support
1181:Wehwalt
797:Wehwalt
432:Passim
426:Support
408:Legolas
375:Wehwalt
373:with.--
362:Legolas
347:Wehwalt
274:Talk2Me
253:Comment
226:Wehwalt
191:Wehwalt
158:Wehwalt
126:Toolbox
89:protect
84:history
1780:Jayjg
1761:Jayjg
1705:Jayjg
1634:Nathan
1628:CallMe
1604:Silver
266:Nathan
260:CallMe
204:oppose
93:delete
1677:Sandy
1609:seren
1490:JDDJS
1459:Yes,
1299:Crowz
1273:Crowz
945:Crowz
110:views
102:watch
98:links
16:<
1812:talk
1794:talk
1776:WP:V
1772:WP:V
1757:WP:V
1746:talk
1732:talk
1701:WP:V
1684:Talk
1661:talk
1593:talk
1577:talk
1557:Talk
1536:talk
1518:talk
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1388:talk
1364:Pres
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1245:Time
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351:talk
332:talk
320:here
297:talk
244:talk
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215:talk
195:talk
170:talk
162:talk
106:logs
80:talk
76:edit
1307:RSA
1281:RSA
1243:all
953:RSA
164:),
52:by
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