770:: I agree that most kings should only have the most common version of their praenomen and nomen and not their full titularies. However some kings either do not have both cartouche names known and/or they are mainly known by their Horus name. This is particularly a problem with the Early Dynastic kings and kings from the First and Second Intermediate Periods. If anyone wanted to write an article on, say, Den (Horus name) or Saket (only 1 cartouche known), they could not use these templates. That is not a big problem at this moment, I admit, but I did want to think ahead somewhat. Perhaps a Template:PharaohSerkekh and a Template:Pharaoh1Cartouche (for a single cartouche) could be made at some point. A note in the descriptions of the templates could explain what they are intended to be used for specifically.
836:
written without its buns. On reflection, I think that the removal of the titulary would be an improvement: I think the sedge may be pushing the top and bottom of the cartouch too wide anyway. As you suspected, I am in favour of keeping the cartouches as they are a distinctive part of most royal inscriptions, and may aid the beginner in the understanding of inscriptions. If we can produce a broad and flexible range of templates, we may be able to make better use of hieroglyphs. I'll try a revision of the two-cartouch template for starters.
736:(or something) that would be a handy companion to personal, divine and place names. I just glad that someone worked out how to get the signs inside a cartouche. Most of the better known pharaohs are known by praenomen and nomen. How important is it that Kheperkare Senwosret (I) was the Horus Ankhmesut? Certainly, we can create specific templates for pharaohs with different naming systems. If you fancy falcons in boxes, I would like to find a fun way of representing the names of the Ptolomys.
2340:. The latter is far more flexible, as it can take the {{{align}}} and {{{era}}} parameters. As the colour schemes are set by parameters, the entire scheme for one period of Egyptian history can be altered in one place. The default colour scheme (silver/black) does not default yet: if you want to use it, use era=default when calling the template. I've tweaked the padding on the templates so that they a more presentable, and I've written full instructions on the template talk pages.
102:
was picked as a standard because we all had heard of this book, the usual quality of the releases by Oxford U Press, & that to accept a divergence from the standard one has to make a plausible argument. I've done precisely that with the entries concerning the 1st & 2nd
Intermediate Periods: where our authority fails, offer the best text of the primary source, & differ the various arguments about where this primary source errs to the specific article.
111:, & other exchanges I've had with the most likely candidate), so I'd rather be in a position of reporting what one authority says & making exceptions, rather than endlessly arguing over every specific point because "every" Egyptologist has his/her own opinion -- even if their opinions differ by only a letter or a year -- because everyone is entitled to her/his opinion being heard, no matter how unreasonable.
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Egyptian is well-known, this is not really a problem (i.e., Khufu vs. Cheops, etc.). Where it is a problem, IMO, is with less well-known names such as
Nesubanebdjed vs Smendes, Pasebakhaenniut vs. Psusennes, Nekau vs. Necho, Ahmose II vs Amasis, Nefaarud vs Nepheritites, etc. Very few people are going to come to Wiki and search for 'Ahmose II' when they want to know about
2065:, etc.). "Protodynastic" (as term) should be used rather than "Predynastic" (a much longer period). Secondly, if there are to be colour definitions for each period, one will be needed for the Roman emperors. They did rule Egypt as pharaohs (at least as much as the Persians, and they built widely in Egypt), and many did have full Egyptian titularies. —
1191:. I agree that coordinating with the Dynasty template is a good idea - this is an opportunity to make the Dynasty template more colourful, not the name templates greyer! A different colour for each of the 30-odd dynasties may be a bit much, but a colour for each period ought to be achievable (a dozen or so distinguishable reds, oranges and yellows).
2949:
I honestly don't see how this is an issue. We have the jargon or technical word, which appears because that is the precise term; this is then followed with a phrase that offers a non-technical explanation. If I had to critique the templates, having glanced at a few, they should offer transliterations
2523:
Quite right about the nebty/horus of gold names. Will change the 5Fold template when I get the time to reflect this. Shouldn't prove to be a problem -- that's the beauty of a template after all: a change made at source will automatically be updated elsewhere. Thanks for the providing the full example
844:
I'll live either way with the colour. I just thought a tiny degree of consistency with the
Dynasty template might be nice. And the cartouches are not that big a deal. So basically we are down to getting rid of the titles. One other suggetion was to make the text of the cartouche templates in NOT bold
222:
article with
Afrocentric material. (You may have to check the article's history as I have replaced it twice now with the old version; look for articles by 24.209.250.134) While I certainly don't want to have it degenerate into an edit war, I really don't think that sort of biased material has a place
2910:
Ril, To the best of my knowledge, these are the exact terms that
Egyptologists use when referring to these parts of the name of the Pharaoh. We've had a couple of people who are knowledgable about Ancient Egypt (one is a professional Egyptologist), & they haven't commented on these words. Do you
786:
be included. As I stated before, the actual orthography of nsw-bity and s3-ra varied considerably over time (and often even in the same reign), or might vary based on if it came from a hieratic text or a hieroglyphic text, etc. Secondly, and perhaps more significantly, they are titles and not really
240:
I took a look at the history of the Thebes page, & I have to agree with you about these edits. It's one thing -- & the right thing -- to add some material explaining Dr. Chancellor
Williams' opinion about Thebes; it's another entirely to replace one POV with only his. Let's see how this anon
81:
Regarding Shaw, I would add a plea that he not be relied on over much. For example, his chronological list leaves out a number of now generally recognised rulers of the Third
Intermediate Period (Shoshenq "quartus" and Iny for example); I have added Shoshenq "quartus" where appropriate, but have yet
65:
page (or the Talk page there) within a day or two as it may be of general interest. As for
Psusennes, while I am completely sympathetic to wanting to use Egyptian instead of Greek, the reality is that the vast majority of people coming to Wiki are not going to use "Pasebakhaenniut" as a search term,
1412:
As for HieroWiki, I agree its documentation leaves much to be desired -- although it's a clever little program. I've taken a look at the source code, & it appears to be straightforward enough php. If we don't hear back from the author, I may break down & learn enough php to see if I can fix
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It may not be clear from the above discussion, but the whole point of standardizing on Shaw was to avoid edit wars over how to properly represent a given ancient
Egyptian's name, e.g. Amenhotep, Amunhotpe, Amenopsis, etc. Shaw clearly has some holes & idosyncratic spellings in this book, but he
2398:
Thank you: I had got to the stage where everything was tolerably tidy, but lost the will to keep on tweaking it! I am having problems understanding parameter defaults: some of the literature says you can set them, but it's not working for me. The colours all seem to default to white at the moment,
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I was referring to the fact that the average reader is not a professional
Egyptologist (wikipedia has the following template explaining the issues around such a situation). I do not feel it is appropriate, particularly as anyone with a basic awareness of latin, or just a good educated guess, will
1424:
I'm not sure what bug you are referring to. We had identified that WikiHiero interprets r:t as r-t. The serekh is a badly drawn JPEG (by me). I'm sure another format would do a better job of it. The template creates a box by defining the dimensions of table-cells around the WikiHiero syntax. I've
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In other words, if you have a better candidate for a standard, please share it with us. Or even if it merely substitutes what we have for certain parts of our current standard. (But I seriously doubt anyone will much care about certain items like the proper order for the kings of the 13th or 14th
3004:
Nubia is an important topic related to Ancient Egypt. The Hittites are the only other rival of Ancient Egypt on par with the Nubians, and Hatti didn't have the strong economic, cultural, and historic ties to Pharonic civilization that Nubia did/does. This project was set up for Ancient Egypt and
1708:
I've tweaked the cellpadding: the cartouches no longer touch the left border with long names. I've set top and bottom borders to 4px, and left and right to 10px. I think some more tweaking is in order. The nomen cartouche is a little too close to the bottom border, and there is a little too much
86:
Nectanebo II, even though the actual Egyptian names of the Nectanebos are completely different (they just happened to sound the same to Greek-speakers). Of course, following my own advice on Psusennes, most people are going search for Nectanebo, Amasis, Necho, etc., and not the Egyptian version.
85:
Shaw also has some rather idiosyncratic spellings (Piy instead of Piye being one of them, though it is thankfully not Piankhy). Moreover, he is not consistant about using Egyptian instead of Greek. For example, he does use Ahmose II for Amasis and Hakor for Achoris, but still has Nectanebo I and
835:
I find the French Knowledge articles on Egyptology quite colourful. I suppose we could make colour meaningful: a different colour for each dynasty, perhaps. I had noticed that Senwosret's mouth was having problems chasing the bun, but I couldn't fix it easily. I hadn't noticed that nsw-bity was
1699:
There were a few problems with cellpadding. The original template uses tables nested inside tables nested inside tables for each cartouche. I've changed the markup from HTML to pipes and added comments throughout: I hope this makes the templates easier to work with. I'll see if I can tweak the
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I understand completely. However I think it it needs to be kept in mind that people other than Egyptologists and well-read "amateurs" (for lack of a better term) use Wiki. As I stated above, I am completely sympathetic to using Egyptian versions of names, rather than Greek. In cases where the
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I think the change of names would be good. If we wanted, we could include the position of the box on the page as a variable, rather than having a different template for each position. Concerning colours, we might end up like newly-weds choosing curtain fabric! I thought the orange colour was
2507:. Have also added it to the standard ancient Egyptian template pages as well, explaining how it works. If there's anyone out there still monitoring this, my question now is: should such things as the Horus "prefix" be added as a standard to the serekh template as a matter of course?
2047:
Personally I find most the colours all rather garish (the red, lime, and fuchia in particular). I realise of course this is just a matter of opinion. My suggestion is to use either light earth tones or greys/light blues. The bigger question in my mind is just how this is going to be
2697:, which I compiled to replace these two. I've been distracted with other work on Knowledge (our coverage of Ethiopian history makes ours on Ancient Egypt exhaustive & well-researched in comparison!). I hope folks can make use of what I've cone there. Or, if someone feels it's
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note the meaning of these terms, and reach an inappropriate conclusion (i.e. that the item marked under "praenomen" is the person's first name, and under "nomen" is the next part of their name, rather than it being their throne and birth names). I feel that we should be avoiding
2759:
For those of us who aren't up to date with the secondary literature, would you offer a short introduction to KMT, & just what it is? (From the context, I assume it is a periodical about Ancient Egypt, but would you add something about what it covers, its reputation, etc.) --
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dynasties.) Nothing is written stone, & this standard right now is accepted more by default than after extensive discussion; I for one would like to see more criticism of what we have done & ideas for making it better (e.g., where the hottest disputes are & why). --
1854:
Back to the issue of colour: it was suggested that we use different colours for different periods, and use the same colour scheme for the pharaoh and hiero templates. Here is a suggestion for a scheme: feel free to edit it, the colours are not meaningful. Any thoughts on this?
1868:
On colours, some consistency would be useful - for example, how about having all of the intermediate periods in red tones, and the "kingdom" periods in yellows? I don't like the brighter greens or blues very much. I've changed the colours around a bit - is this better? --
2448:, and I've implemented it on templates for Egyptian deities. It's all looking pretty together; is there anything else we can do with the templates? I was wondering if we might need some odd templates for the Early Dynastic Period with the Horus name, praenomen and nomen.
828:. They make the box much too large. Additionally, there are instances of High Priests of Amun, the God's Wives of Amun, etc. using cartouches but without the titles (they wouldn't go that far). This is another point against included them in the template. Just a thought. —
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Nah, you're all right. It didn't make much sense, but I suspect there was a story in there somewhere -- I think I'll rescue it and put it on Talk; perhaps someone familiar with the mythology'll recognize it and be able to polish it up into something comprehensible.
2747:
I just wanted to drop a note and let you all know that I know have access to a fairly complete set of back issues of KMT (including Volume 1), so if anyone who doesn't have such access needs an article scanned in, let me know (on my talk page, not here).
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Much as I dislike seeing jargon in Knowledge articles, this is one case where we can't avoid using it -- & I don't see how these two words hinder a non-specialist reader from understanding the article. Are you sure you're not just picking nits? --
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Orientation of serekhs: ideally they should be verticle, however WikiHiero doesn't allow for that. Also, I would leave off the Horus for the same reason I suggested leaving off the other titles (orthography changed over time, some use Sutekh instead,
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The Finnish templates for the cartouches already have nsw-bity and s3-ra encoded. I really think this should be stripped out. The orthography is quite variable depending on the period (i.e., Middle Kingdom writings are not the same as Ptolemaic
750:: I can appreciate your not wanting to get into arguments over colour, and I assure you I don’t want to either. I just felt that it ought to be visually compatible with Wiki as it is now. The colours I used in my dummy versions are from the
732:
reminiscent of sand and sphinx, and that grey is just too grey: perhaps this'll need arbitration! I feel that it is good to have a generic link on the box (I agree that 'in' should not be linked). We might want to create an article called
2654:
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A request: would it be possible to be able to add the standard titles of the king (i.e. the sedge and the bee, golden horus name, etc) in the semi-standard fivefold titulary form? Have just finished expanding a new article on the
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and was frustrated in my attempts to add anything more than the initial symbols. In the Thutmose I example, it would have been great to include his full titles instead of just the pronunciation and rough translation.
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I belive that there are two lists because the conventional chronology now is considered outdated by many scholars. There is not a single modern chronolgy yet, but this wikiproject has selceted the chrology in the
1453:-names (i.e., names in palaces) but can't draw serekhs (as the current version of MdC does allow). I just wish it was possible to have inline glyphs on Wiki, but that doesn't seem possible unless you use a table.
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in principle, I like the idea but I have to admit I am not exactly crazy about the yellow. What about something along these lines? (The Pharaoh example does have a coding error in it, but you get the idea. A few
2732:(pub. 2000). K.S.B. Ryholt, whose material is used for some of the dynasties, offers his own dates for the Second Intermediate Period which I did not include. I guess I should have made that more explicit. --
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parameters. However, this will temporarily break the template on the pages that call it, so I'll have to go around fixing them all. I may introduce an extra colour scheme as non-period-specific alternative to
791:), they are not given either. Frankly I don’t think the actual cartouches are needed, but I suspect I will be in a minority on that one. :-) As an aside, the glyphs of nsw-bity really ought to have <t: -->
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I have now coded the revised colour chart and introduced the {{{era}}} parameter to call the correct colours without having to look them up. I've put the templates and list of colours and their codes on
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to include Iny. I would emphasise that both kings are regarded as factual by both mainstream Egyptologists and the folks supporting the New Chronology, so this is not something that is highly debatable.
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left out the Horus, as some Horus names are introduced by Horus and Seth. I'm not sure whether the serekh would look better rotated through 90 degrees: so as look more like a real serekh inscription.
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My apologies, I thought it was a pretty textbook case of patent nonsense - it didn't make any sense, and I couldn't even tell from it what "Esna" was supposed to be. I can undelete if you like...
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to leave a note here. I confess I should have read the discussion here before I started, though frankly I didn't think about it either. My apologies if I stepped on some toes; it was not intended.
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I tried out the new template. As you can (hopefully) see, when the actual hieroglyphic text is longer than "praenomen or throne name", hit the left side of the box. Is there any way to pad this?
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system. However, it does have a few problems. It cannot rotate signs, nor overlap them. It doesn't indicate damage or rubication (red). It's library of hieroglyphs is fairly limited. It can draw
2847:
Could we have a little discussion on relocating that article? I'm not at all convinced by "Pylon (obelisk)", but the blindingly obvious killer-location alternative isn't suggesting itself. See
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Perhaps this is not news to the rest of you, but I've just discovered that you can write a cartouche in WikiHiero syntax. This is not discussed in the help files on the syntax that I've read.
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What a good idea. I prefer the smaller and more colourful options, as opposed to the larger and greyer ones. I'm not sure that the template is the right place to be distinguishing between
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I have no such information available, I was just curious how Nubia fitted into the picture. Sometimes Egyptologists consider it to come under the heading of "Egyptology" in a wider sense.
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I'm not aware that we needed a policy conerning Afrocentrism, not having encountered it until now. But then there's a lot of topics on Knowledge where disputes are waiting to emerge. :(
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bias? Clearly it is not at all in the spirit of a NPOV, but on a practical level, what is to be done? The reason I ask is there is currently an anon. individual replacing the existing
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in its "see also" section since it was created in October 2004. Even so, I suspect that you are right that they were created separately and independently (there is some discussion in
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Didn't hear back from anyone, so I spent some time learning the syntax and have hopefully come up with a decent working example, which has been template-ified and can be found at:
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carried out. There will be a need for a seperate template for each period. I personally think that just one, for all periods, is a lot easier and less confusing in the long run.
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re light earth tones rather than the more garish colours used at present (particularly, lime and fuchia). Is there a list of colours somewhere, or do we just make them up? --
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The serekh doesn't view properly in my ancient version of Mozilla, but it did quite nicely at work in Internet Exploder. (It also shows the same bug Nefertum complained about.)
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If this second template is used, (the hiero/2cartouche) I think it would be best to change the pages using the old one and request its deletion for the sake of consistancy.
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treatment of the names. If you want Shaw to be it, that is fine, but I would urge that more familiar forms be favoured whenever possible. I would suggest, however, for the
2680:, which looks better than the list at List of Pharaohs, at least in terms of dates. (Although for some reason it doesn't give dates for Amenhotep II and Thutmose IV).
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Please have a good look at the WikiHiero code, and see if you can fix any bugs in it. It would be nice to know if it can do anything else we haven't been told about.
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regarding the cartouches: I was aware that you can code them yourself in WikiHiero. However, it might be best to have them "hard" encoded in the templates
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Egyptian topics should be our concern. If you would like set up a sister WikiProject about Nubia, I imagine you could count on this project's support. -
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It was deleted while I trying to fix it; hmm... pretty ugly it was, but "patent nonsense" was perhaps a bit harsh. I left a geo-stub-plus in its place.
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The nebty name and the horus of gold shouldn't been in cartouches - dont want to just change this as it would affect everypage that uses the template ?
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are not stacked as they should be. You didn’t make an encoding error. It is a bug in that particular combination. Try entering r:t and then r*t in
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I've been in one or two flame wars over precisely what the "consensus of Egyptologists" believe (for example see the pages connected to
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part of the name. I just don’t think they are needed. I would like to point out that in the main scholarly collection of kings' names (
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by Ian Shaw as the standard here. Some dynasties overlap and some such as Dynasty zero, were unknown when the list was compliled by
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I think the templates should be renamed to something like Template:HieroL, Template:HieroR; Template:PharaohL, and Template:PharaohR
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I've changed fuchsia to lightcoral and lime to palegreen in the table above. I'll also implement these in the {{{era}}} templates.
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Very good. Now all we need to do is decide on colours. Does anyone have any suggestions of specific colours? I agree with
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template is the best, simply because it is shorter, and a blue border will contrast nicely with the header fill colours. --
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are now obsolete, and are only being called by talk pages. We could list them for deletion. The new colour scheme is called
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be used as a "standard"; its importance to that subject cannot be underrated. I offer this only as a suggestion, however.
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have coding errors (such as the black line below the heading box) that need to be worked out if they were to be used.)
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AFAIK, we have none. No one has brought the subject up. Would you like to add Nubian topics to this WikiProject? --
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material, let me know & I'll just move it to my personal userspace; I don't want to lose all of this labor. --
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for consistency (ideally sorting out the default colours first, though, to avoid breaking the current usage)? --
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dynasty we should provide the source for our dates, at least up until the 26th Dynasty, when it becomes solid.
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The templates look fine to me. I have no problem with the serekh one at all (using Safari on a Mac). Regarding
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137:, Ahmose I was never known as "Amasis I"). Of course redirect pages are essential regardless of what is chosen.
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As you say, it could be tweeked a bit for the spacing issues you mention, but all in all, I really like it! —
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even if they know how to spell it; even Shaw uses Psusennes, as does every other encyclopaedic-type source (
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I did want to justify some changes I made with regard to this group's adoption of the "standards" in Shaw's
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Okay - at any rate, the two articles do the same thing, we shouldn't have two lists. Personally, I think
782:: Regarding the inclusion of titles in the cartouche templates, I really feel strongly that these should
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The syntax is {{hiero/serekh|align=left|bordercolour=black|bgcolour=silver|name=Aha|horus=<hiero: -->
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1046:{{hiero/2cartouche|align=right|bordercolour=red|bgcolour=yellow|name=Ahmose I|praenomen=<hiero: -->
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For a perfect example of why the titles should not be used on the name templates, see the article at
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Here is an example of the codes in practice: Hatshepsut was a New Kingdom queen, and so we give her
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1171:{{hiero/1cartouche|align=left|bordercolour=blue|bgcolour=orange|name=Djefahapy|nomen=<hiero: -->
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1691:(I deleted a request for directions in the template from here in the Talk; they already exist) —
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in italic. This keeps keeps the emphasis on the glyphs themselves. (See my dummy example.) —
804:: I don’t know if you noticed it, but in the glyphs of your Senwasret example, the <r: -->
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allows you to put a Horus name, praenomen and nomen into one template. I hope you like it.
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If some sort of colour code is to be used, I would suggest 2 other changes. I have added a
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What should be done with kings who lack one or both cartouche names, but may have, say a
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Also, the two lists don't mention each other - a sure sign of independent development.
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cellpadding in the right place to prevent the cartouche colliding with the border.
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article (i.e., the so-called Dynasty 0), which deals with the Predynastic kings (
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Perhaps I should simplify the templates that use cartouches to use this instead.
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I want to complain about the terminology used in the hieroglyph templates.
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108:
1323:
Just in case you don't know, here's an example, you use < and : -->
1446:
861:
Okay, here are two new templates. The in-page wikitext for each is:
814:, but may be one of you here knows how to get in contact with him? —
2911:
have any cites or authorities that show our usage is incorrect? --
2749:
134:
62:
50:
2959:
2772:
2642:
2630:
2619:
2574:
810:; you'll get identical results. I tried e-mailing the author of
146:
In essence, therefore, I agree with you that there should be one
2902:
Could these be changed please, as they are quite inappropriate.
2924:
2062:
636:
444:
130:
515:
472:
2982:
2672:
ought to discuss various dating schemes, and so on, and that
2403:
so that it's in line with the other templates: it'll get the
2861:
2225:
2165:
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1638:
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926:
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2171:
2098:
1581:
1498:
1266:
1230:
1072:
957:
882:
541:
2459:
Excellent - since you and I were the only editors, I have
2698:
1879:
454:
actually necessary? In any event, I don't think the word
2728:
The dates come (without corrections) from Ian Shaw, ed.
2547:
Why is there a list of pharaohs at both of these pages?
2476:
Thanks for deleting those. I've added another template:
1728:
811:
214:
Does this group have some sort of policy or response to
2962:, where all 5 parts of the Pharaoh's name are covered.
2364:
Would it be possible to add an alignment parameter to
154:
that the "Bible" on that particular period, Kitchen's
53:
and Pasebakhaenniut to Psusennes. I will justify the
2976:
2424:: I'll present a suggestion here before I wreck it!
1465:
all in all, they are looking good! Thanks Gareth! —
310:, and borrowed the hieroglyph templates. They are:
2790:
2711:That looks really good, although I think that for
403:Variable 2 = Praenomen in hieroglyphs (with tags)
640:
306:I stumbled across the work of the Finnish user
2795:Can someone more knowledgeable than I fix the
2645:since soon after it was created in July 2003;
406:Variable 3 = Nomen in hieroglyphs (with tags)
2981:What is the project's policy with regard to
2622:before I hived it out to its own article on
2381:Would it be worth adding an {{era}} tag to
2351:Very good. I've tweaked the main page and
241:will respond to your inviation to talk. --
2416:. I think it would be possible to add the
1863:Good work on the cell padding - excellent.
717:
643:
615:
544:
418:I hope these little boxes will be useful.
197:British Museum Dictionary of Ancient Egypt
133:(and despite the claims of the article at
68:British Museum Dictionary of Ancient Egypt
49:, specifically my changing of Sheshonq to
2586:Have you looked at the two articles? The
2695:Knowledge:WikiProject_Ancient_Egypt/Temp
2557:They both use different dates, as well.
1709:blank space in the middle of the table.
167:Finally, as for Oxford Uni Press, their
28:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Ancient Egypt
18:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Ancient Egypt
1227:
14:
447:-name recorded, or only a nomen, etc.?
2399:which is bearable. I'm going to redo
1976:
1785:
789:Handbuch der ägyptischen Köningsnamen
2676:ought to give the list currently at
754:. (The dummy versions I placed here
383:Variable 2 = hieroglyphs (with tags)
169:Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt
72:Oxford Encyclopedia of Ancient Egypt
414:— same as previous, but left-margin
391:— same as previous, but left-margin
377:— right-margin general hieroglyphs
23:
2293:i-mn:n-W9:t-F4:t-B7</hiero: -->
2027:
1993:
1920:
1807:
1752:
156:Third Intermediate Period in Egypt
24:
3038:
2328:I've replaced all occurrences of
2010:
792:s under the sw-plant and the bee.
2678:Conventional Egyptian chronology
2670:conventional Egyptian chronology
2651:Conventional Egyptian chronology
2639:Conventional Egyptian chronology
2590:cites sources, including Shaw.
2588:Conventional Egyptian chronology
2577:in antiquity. Hope this helps. -
2542:Conventional Egyptian chronology
2224:
2164:
2139:
2091:
1637:
1574:
1549:
1491:
1265:
1123:
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998:
950:
925:
875:
313:{{Hiero/pharaoh|1=Senwosret I|2=
223:here. I did leave a note on the
2730:Oxford History of Ancient Egypt
2571:Oxford History of Ancient Egypt
2336:in the main article space with
1937:
1903:
1840:
1829:
1774:
1172:D:f-A-X4-H-p:N36</hiero: -->
397:— right-margin pharaonic names
47:Oxford History of Ancient Egypt
34:Names of kings and other issues
2985:, and Nubia related articles?
2693:And then there is the list at
752:Template:Egyptian Dynasty list
93:up in a day or two as well. --
13:
1:
2520:17:46, August 25, 2005 (UTC)
2297:as can be seen to the right.
2058:Protodynastic Period of Egypt
210:Dealing with Afrocentric bias
26:For current discussions, see
2881:, and neither Egyptian, nor
2629:- some of the references in
1948:
1892:
1818:
1763:
1741:
7:
2594:doesn't cite any sources.
2512:02:26, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
2498:03:17, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
1965:
1796:
1445:, it generally follows the
1047:ra:nb-F9:t*t</hiero: -->
458:should be part of the link.
10:
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3009:01:46, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
2989:20:53, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
2906:20:50, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
2824:23:06, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2755:22:10, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2722:00:15, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2687:15:07, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2611:13:39, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2601:13:37, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2581:03:36, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)
2564:02:59, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2554:02:57, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2338:template:Hiero/2cartouche
2291:ra-mAat-kA</hiero: -->
2178:
2105:
2069:20:23, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1859:18:12, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1713:11:54, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1695:08:06, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1588:
1505:
1314:00:32, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1237:
1211:How about a serekh name?
1179:16:54, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1079:
964:
889:
840:13:50, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
832:12:04, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
740:00:11, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
647:
548:
422:17:08, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
400:Variable 1 = English name
380:Variable 1 = English name
250:Templates for hieroglyphs
231:09:49, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
97:09:40, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
89:I will try to get my own
3024:21:30, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
2997:23:55, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
2972:23:54, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
2931:21:29, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
2915:23:55, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
2858:22:15, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
2836:23:16, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2813:21:03, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2764:02:05, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2736:23:12, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2705:22:32, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2664:13:57, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
2484:15:59, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
2428:19:07, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
2324:11:30, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
2301:01:03, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
1876:19:20, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1723:16:04, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1704:11:31, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1469:13:46, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1434:12:31, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1417:04:28, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1396:01:49, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)
1207:21:05, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
857:14:28, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
818:09:44, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
469:20:05, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)
245:20:29, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
203:10:49, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
152:Third Intermidate Period
121:20:55, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
2927:where at all possible.
2783:01:57, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
2470:21:57, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
2452:21:20, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
2392:17:47, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
2344:17:08, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
2334:template:Hiero/pharaoh1
2316:10:59, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
1476:Further template issues
1310:Any good for starters?
1049:iaH-ms-s</hiero: -->
744:A few further comments
412:Template:Hiero/pharaoh1
76:Lexikon der Ägyptologie
2890:is likewise latin for
2463:and deleted them. --
2330:template:Hiero/pharaoh
395:Template:Hiero/pharaoh
2292:|nomen=<hiero: -->
1330:<-ra-mAat-kA-: -->
1048:|nomen=<hiero: -->
227:talk page as well. --
2849:Talk:Pylon (obelisk)
2505:Template:Hiero/5Fold
2478:template:hiero/3name
2432:Okay, that's done:
2353:Template talk:Hiero
2075:Template talk:Hiero
2618:was originally at
1886:Background colour
1735:Background colour
1306:D34</hiero: -->
805:and the <t: -->
2526:Fivefold Titulary
2490:Fivefold Titulary
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38:I was invited by
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2674:List of Pharaohs
2649:has referred to
2647:List of Pharaohs
2641:has referred to
2633:may be relevant.
2616:List of Pharaohs
2592:List of Pharaohs
2538:List of Pharaohs
2528:page by the way!
2422:template:pharaoh
2383:Template:Pharaoh
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1447:Manuel de Codage
1413:the problem. --
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2842:Pylon (obelisk)
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2743:KMT back issues
2545:
2370:Template:Hiero1
1950:Middle Kingdom
1905:Early dynastic
1787:Middle Kingdom
1754:Early dynastic
1478:
1332:is rendered as:
1331:</hiero: -->
532:or throne name
450:is the link to
389:Template:Hiero1
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2401:template:hiero
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2372:redundant too?
2366:Template:Hiero
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2268:(1550–1069 BC)
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1175:Any thoughts?
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734:Egyptian names
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2482:Gareth Hughes
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2455:
2451:
2450:Gareth Hughes
2447:
2443:
2439:
2438:hiero/pharaoh
2435:
2431:
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2429:
2427:
2426:Gareth Hughes
2423:
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2299:Gareth Hughes
2295:
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2258:
2257:
2254:
2248:
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2240:or birth name
2239:
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2204:
2199:
2194:
2189:
2186:
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2020:
2017:
2014:
2011:
2006:
2003:
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1997:
1994:
1989:
1986:
1983:
1980:
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1972:
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1961:
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1954:palegoldenrod
1952:
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1933:
1930:
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1894:Pre-dynastic
1893:
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1743:Pre-dynastic
1742:
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1711:Gareth Hughes
1703:
1702:Gareth Hughes
1698:
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1432:Gareth Hughes
1429:
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1422:
1416:
1411:
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1399:
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1394:Gareth Hughes
1391:
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1312:Gareth Hughes
1308:
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1186:
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1177:Gareth Hughes
1165:
1164:
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1156:
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1139:or birth name
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838:Gareth Hughes
833:
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738:Gareth Hughes
735:
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420:Gareth Hughes
413:
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69:
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61:issue on the
60:
56:
52:
48:
43:
41:
31:
29:
19:
2980:
2955:
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2152:
2071:
2056:
2054:
2050:consistantly
2049:
2046:
2038:
2032:
2021:
2016:fuchsia lime
2015:
2012:Late period
2004:
1999:lime fuchsia
1998:
1987:
1981:
1978:New Kingdom
1959:
1953:
1931:
1925:
1922:Old Kingdom
1914:
1908:
1853:
1831:Late period
1809:New Kingdom
1765:Old Kingdom
1707:
1690:
1687:
1684:
1662:Psusennes II
1650:
1562:
1450:
1380:" alt=": -->
1309:
1304:
1213:
1210:
1196:I think the
1188:
1184:
1170:
1136:
1045:
1011:
938:
860:
850:
846:
834:
826:Psusennes II
823:
801:
788:
783:
779:
767:
755:
747:
730:
704:" alt=": -->
628:
602:" alt=": -->
529:
519:
476:
455:
417:
369:
338:
312:
305:
213:
196:
192:
188:
184:
180:
176:
172:
168:
155:
147:
88:
84:
80:
75:
71:
67:
58:
54:
46:
44:
37:
25:
2883:throne name
2420:colours to
2264:New Kingdom
2253:hieroglyphs
2035:aquamarine
2001:lightcoral
1928:sandybrown
1812:aquamarine
1757:sandybrown
1666:hieroglyphs
1286:hieroglyphs
1152:hieroglyphs
1027:hieroglyphs
522:hieroglyphs
479:hieroglyphs
465:comments? —
452:hieroglyphs
287:hieroglyphs
216:Afrocentric
191:vs. Shaw's
175:vs. Shaw's
78:, &c).
2952:praenomena
2896:birth name
2624:29 October
2368:, to make
2307:Nefertum17
2249:Hatshepsut
2067:Nefertum17
2018:palegreen
2005:red orchid
1982:aquamarine
1967:Second IP
1934:indianred
1917:steelblue
1909:sandybrown
1848:steelblue
1798:Second IP
1771:royalblue
1760:indianred
1721:Nefertum17
1693:Nefertum17
1467:Nefertum17
855:Nefertum17
830:Nefertum17
816:Nefertum17
467:Nefertum17
229:Nefertum17
201:Nefertum17
183:vs Shaw's
109:David Rohl
95:Nefertum17
3007:JCarriker
2941:technical
2871:Praenomen
2862:Templates
2799:article?
2655:/archive1
2579:JCarriker
2509:Captmondo
2495:Captmondo
2461:been bold
2355:a little.
2153:praenomen
2039:steelblue
2029:Ptolomys
1995:Third IP
1939:First IP
1932:royalblue
1915:indianred
1842:Ptolomys
1820:Third IP
1776:First IP
1563:praenomen
1443:WikiHiero
1198:Djefahapy
1185:praenomen
1148:Djefahapy
939:praenomen
847:praenomen
845:and have
812:WikiHiero
808:WikiHiero
802:WikiHiero
530:praenomen
427:comments:
193:Amenhotep
189:Amenhotpe
91:user page
2894:and not
2879:forename
1990:crimson
1942:crimson
1911:skyblue
1845:skyblue
1834:fuchsia
1793:crimson
1779:crimson
1381:" /: -->
1023:Ahmose I
705:" /: -->
603:" /: -->
477:Amun in
173:Ramesses
148:standard
135:Ahmose I
63:Shoshenq
59:Shoshenq
55:Sheshonq
51:Shoshenq
2995:llywrch
2970:llywrch
2960:Pharaoh
2950:of the
2913:llywrch
2762:llywrch
2734:llywrch
2703:llywrch
2643:Pharaoh
2631:Pharaoh
2620:Pharaoh
2575:Manetho
2524:in the
2414:default
2033:skyblue
1960:crimson
1883:Period
1837:orchid
1732:Period
1415:llywrch
243:llywrch
177:Rameses
119:llywrch
40:Llywrch
2956:nomena
2954:&
2925:jargon
2780:(Talk)
2753:(talk)
2662:(Talk)
2657:). --
2468:(Talk)
2434:hiero1
2390:(Talk)
2314:(Talk)
2285:era=nk
2063:Narmer
2041:black
2022:orchid
1962:black
1874:(Talk)
1815:black
1205:(Talk)
780:Titles
748:Colour
445:serekh
440:ones).
308:Kompak
187:, and
131:Amasis
2983:Nubia
2977:Nubia
2888:nomen
2875:latin
2855:Hajor
2833:Hajor
2810:Hajor
2801:Missi
2777:ALoan
2775:? --
2771:This
2659:ALoan
2518:Markh
2465:ALoan
2446:egypt
2405:align
2387:ALoan
2311:ALoan
2238:nomen
1988:black
1956:gold
1945:gold
1897:plum
1871:ALoan
1823:lime
1782:gold
1768:gold
1746:plum
1651:nomen
1460:etc.)
1202:ALoan
1189:nomen
1137:nomen
1012:nomen
851:nomen
768:Names
629:nomen
16:<
3022:~~~~
2987:~~~~
2929:~~~~
2904:~~~~
2892:name
2877:for
2819:john
2797:Esna
2791:Esna
2750:Noel
2717:john
2713:each
2682:john
2627:2004
2606:john
2596:john
2559:john
2549:john
2540:and
2440:and
2407:and
2332:and
2024:red
2007:red
1970:red
1926:gold
1900:red
1826:red
1801:red
1749:red
1187:and
849:and
283:Amun
199:). —
181:Piya
57:vs.
2873:is
2773:KMT
2699:VfD
2418:era
2409:era
2294:}}
2260:Era
2251:in
1664:in
1451:hwt
1307:}}
1284:in
1282:Aha
1173:}}
1150:in
1050:}}
1025:in
784:not
370:}}
339:|3=
285:in
185:Piy
2944:}}
2938:{{
2851:.
2436:,
2287::
2262::
2077:.
756:do
456:in
179:,
74:,
70:,
30:.
2898:.
2853:–
2831:–
2822:k
2808:–
2720:k
2685:k
2609:k
2599:k
2562:k
2552:k
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