2185:, and the same complaints about you were present there, and voiced by many other editors. The "compromise" presented by Jdforrester was comparable to the "compromise" about Superprotect. "We do something completely deranged, the ommunity wants us to turn it off, so we offer the compromise of making it semi-deranged". Instead of "the community rejected all attempts at compromise", it would be better to describe it as "the WMF refused to implement the clear results of the RfC". You can't expect people who have been forced into something nasty to then accept a "compromise" where it is made less nasty. Of course, in the months after that RfC, it became more and more obvious that the only reason the WMF needed enwiki as a testing ground, was that they had no plans to test anything themselves, hence the many completely botched releases, which you and Jdforrester invariably and unsuccesfully tried to defend. Any news on the character inserter, by the way? It still looks to be the very same piece of shit you all needed so much feedback on 8 months ago. Then again, if "using a scroll bar as a close button" is a design issue that needs lots of thought and can't be considered simply a very stupid bug that needs fixing ASAP, then we shouldn't be surprised about most of this... You are not a community liason whose job is "ensuring that readers and editors are represented in the decision-making process and that our planned software adequately reflects user needs.", your job is selling VE to us no matter what.
2144:
problem with that action is concerning as well. My posts may make some people uncomfortable, but I also get private thanks and messages from peole who want to say the same but don't dare to. Strange, isn't it, that some people don't dare to post their concerns about the WMF and its employees? Perhaps take that situation into account as well. Finally, there is a huge gap between supporting VE and supporting the software approach the WMF uses for it (which is what you stated and refused to change despite multiple protests). But I don't support VE, if the WMF would pull the plug I'ld be happy; what I support is
Knowledge, and an editing environment that doesn't generate too many problems and doesn't disappoint too many editors. I try, with my error reports, to improve the WMF and to protect Knowledge and its errors. Spotting the bugs in VE is the lesser of two evils, but has given me long-time exposure to the toxicity of the WMF though. And their utter lack of quality control. And the lack of respect for the editing communities. And so on... Thanks for the very helpful links to wiktionaru though, I didn't know the meaning of "support" and "disapproval" until now, you've been a great help there. About as great a help as I have come to expect.
2083:
Knowledge faces from the inside (vandals and the like are from the outside). Whatamidoing is not the only one, nor the worst (that honour probably goes to Erik
Moeller), but people like her would have converted Knowledge to a VE paradise long ago, with force if needed, with misinformation if that was sufficient, if not a large group of people had stood against this. But she simply continues to poison debates about VE or aspects of it with PR talk, deflections, errors (deliberate or not), and so on. Never mind small stupidities like editing the comments from the person who has just asked her quite clearly not to respond. I don't know whether that was deliberately done to bait, or whether it just showed a total disregard for standard talk page rules here, but it was hardly helpful.
995:. If you add that to your .js file, then every occurrence of wishy or washy on WP will appear in bold for you ... and if you hover over the bolded word, you'll get some helpful style and usage advice. Since those functions are built into mediawiki, I'm hoping they'll execute faster than some of the other suggestions for long lists ... and I've got a very long list of customized usage advice. Trouble is, I need as much of regex (or the lua version of regex) as the devs can give me ... those functions don't even allow me to search for spaces (so I can't search for multiple words). If I need a bugzilla request to handle this, I'd really prefer to find someone the devs already know to submit it for me ... I'll probably get a faster answer that way. Are you game? - Dank (
806:: I've just come to this talk page on another issue, but this thread caught my eye. I'm interested that you say "including fixing all the awful show-stopper bugs that were identified first time round". No, my show is pretty much stopped by (at least) one bug I reported a year ago: inability to shrink or move the dialog box to see what's behind it, while entering stub templates or categories. I've responded to the watchlist message by having a shot at using VE these last few days (see umpteen messages on the Feedback page) but am going to give up soon: none of my concerns get taken seriously, as the priorities are tables, Chinese, galleries, and newbie editors, not my kind of everyday Wikignoming.
1123:, but I avoided the words and phrases that weren't necessarily a problem (but if the devs can give me regex, I'm willing to tackle the whole page, if there's demand for that). If I also limit it to one-word searches, I probably don't have enough right now to interest anyone. On "patients", I'm anticipating that every wikiproject will present its own challenges and require some attention, so I'm doing one at a time. I'm thinking I'll hit ROADS after TROP, because that and my home project (Milhist) will cover all the projects with an active A-class review. MED would be a good next step after that. In the meantime ... anyone can steal the script and pencil in "patients". - Dank (
2044:. That's all my perspective here. I don't comment on or care about Whatamidoing as a real-life person, she may be nice or nasty, I don't know and I'll not comment on it. As an employee responsible for communication about this software feature, I treat her based on het actions, her edits, her replies here (Knowledge), and she gets the response she deserves. Defending "something as inconsequential as a software feature" is what her job is based on, perhaps if it is that inconsequential we can just get rid of all jobs used on it, and get the WMF to use that money on something less inconsequential though.
2864:. i was somewhat intrigued, and tried the tool you described. guess what? the original complaint is very relevant: if you do it as anon (in enwiki you don't get VE as anon, but you can do it anyway by appending "?veaction=edit" to the address), and as an anon you click "report a bug", you are teleported to phabricator, and guess what? phabricator won't let you report a bug until you login... this misses the point of "report a bug" tool: people with phabricator account already know how to report bugs, and they do not need this crutch. the whole point is to collect bug reports from anons.
3285:
always leads to the wikitext editor). The label cannot be "conditional". You can change the label to whatever you want (=this button always says "foo"), and you can make new labels (=this button says 'foo' and should only be used for X; that button says 'bar' and should only be used for Y), but you cannot change the label based on the behavior of the button (=this button says 'foo' if clicking it takes you to X but 'bar' when clicking it takes you to Y). Basically, the label doesn't know what will happen when you click the editing button, so it can't adjust its contents.
3947:
3118:
itself, but I do find it very unlikely that the only reason this is being done is because of a 20ms performance difference. And
Virtualeditor remains near entirely useless for complicated template-dense pages (such as Arbcom task pages). I understand that's an eventual thing, but that's the main reason I see no motivation to use it. (plus familiarity) And I'd think that for somebody who is having issues with Virtualeditor (and who is a new user, those who benefit most) might benefit from knowing it's very much a work in progress.
934:
like I've got four more bug reports left between me and having time for a proper visit to MW). What's important, though, is for James F and the devs working on citations to see it, and I will personally make sure that James has seen your messages. I know the answers to a couple of your questions (e.g., ISBN databases are external, and part of the problem is the existence of that final "s" in "databases") and will post them there when I can, which will probably be over the weekend or on Monday. I apologize for the delay.
4010:, where numbering of references seems completely OK for the first time in VE edit mode, despite the usage of reflist and harvard templates (even in infobox). Mind you, I am not complaining ;) - but I am confused about the current status. Your last information a few weeks ago sounded like a solution would be pretty unlikely in the near future (or I have missed a newsletter). If VE would support such reference templates, nested references and the reflist template, this would be a nice step forward.
361:: Would it be useful to set a target goal for the number of people opted in, or perhaps the number of people saving one edit? Beta Features says that 34,610 are currently opted in. This includes a lot of people who rarely edit here at the English Knowledge. If we set a target of having X more people opt in, then we could set the length of the watchlist notice to match (shortening or extending it as necessary, or, if the goal is far from being met, looking for another way to advertise it).
876:
1753:, which is a regular programming language. It seems like it wouldn't be that hard for the system to remember the content of the 1st ref as the short name, build footnotes for each page from the short name + page number, and even keep track of which pages in "Smith 2010" it has created footnotes for, and put subsequent references to a particular page together with ones that came before, as abc links. IMO that would definitely make life easier for editors. --
1040:
script, but highlightText, as coded in
Mediawiki, won't even let me search for a two-word phrase. Ideally, I'd like to have arguments that are regex searches (or the lua equivalent), but at a minimum, I need to search for letters, numbers, spaces and punctuation, if I'm going to be using highlightText. (If your solution allows something like regex, I only need highlighting for the initial phrase that appears before any special regex functions.) - Dank (
3335:
around 3 lines.) If you have better organizational skills than I do, you can re-submit the list, or reproduce it here and I'll submit it. One new VE problem: it no longer saves my place when it saves edits, it jumps to the end of the screen, which is a pain. While I'm here, I've got an invitation of my own to extend ... I'm looking to invite a few folks who have skills sets I lack to be part of a team to comment on copyediting issues at
2610:
376:
recruit from. The aim is not elitism, but to recruit the kind of people who are highly invested in
Knowledge's success, will kick the tires vigorously, and generate useful comments and suggestions. Because of Knowledge's demographic, it's quite likely a lot of them will be developers. Canvassing at WikiProjects for things like programming and computer science might also help get more developers with beta testing experience on board.
2898:, thanks for the note. I realize that's a problem. It's also a problem for people who are logged in but haven't used Phabricator before. That's one of the reasons that I think that it's better for the feedback tool to post to a wiki page. The little "report a bug" link might be convenient for some (it adds the correct Phab project), but most people will want to steer clear, and use the on-screen report form instead.
2062:. If you don't think you should have to put up with the treatment you've received here, then don't put up with it. Leave. Alternately, stay and provide constructive criticism, as opposed to belligerent vitriol. The hostility and venom contained in your remarks here are grossly disproportionate to the issue on which you're commenting. I'm not sure whether you can see that, but either way, the verbal abuse needs to stop.
689:- feedback very welcome. I'm thinking that if we can get half a dozen people together to sort of organize and manage the user test, and collate the results, it shouldn't be too hard to get at least 10 people to try each test group and give some feedback. If we're really lucky - even more. (There's an irony here - when creating the test sandbox, I encountered an error that's been reported on the VE feedback page.)
2443:, the patches that mention unicorns and slugs are part of the replacement system. I was listening in on one of the dev meetings, and if I understood them correctly, the plan is to merge the "slug" stuff next, make sure everything's stable, and then add the "unicorns" in the following round. (Then I believe there's a third piece, at which point the pawn system gets removed, but I'm not certain about that.)
4213:, trying to figure out how to add TemplateData to it so I can use it in VE. As far as I can tell, the parameters are interpreted on the fly and don't have fixed meanings -- e.g. {{sfn|Smith|2001}} links to Smith 2001, but {{sfn|Smith|Jones|2001}} links to Smith & Jones 2001. It looks as if the meaning of parameter 2 depends on whether there's a parameter 3. Can this be sensibly put into TemplateData?
3247:
source" would always take you to the wikitext editor, and (whatever you want to call it) would always take you to VisualEditor, but the community here at the
English Knowledge rejected that proposal. They wanted just plain "Edit", zero changes, if VisualEditor were disabled, and for "Edit source" to only appear if VisualEditor were enabled. That's what they got. This is a consequence of their choice.
1413:
3746:
4425:
2540:, which is a very old bug in the wikitext parser. James F has put this on his list, but until it's fixed (if it's fixed? It's a difficult problem), I recommend against including any autovalues in templates that you expect to be used inside any sort of tags (ref tags, gallery tags, etc.). Autovalue should work exactly as expected on templates that aren't inside ref tags, like the
1137:, it might make sense to briefly sketch what I'm trying to do here for anyone or any wikiproject that's interested in "rolling their own" until I have time to research what they're saying. The thing is ... there are so many conflicting constraints here that doing it right is harder than it looks. But I'm willing to give it a shot ... add whatever you'd like for the popup text at
2181:
needs of the WMF above all else, and screw the community. The "significant drop they had engineered in early August", that would be the option to opt-out, but keeping it as the default for everyone (and no possibility to opt-out for IPs of course)? Or do you mean something else? The "we'll put it as second option, but no opt-out for IPs"? I am just now rereading
3339:, and I need someone who knows (in general terms) about WMF initiatives, particularly efforts to pull in underrepresented groups (such as women), and who communicates well with devs. The role wouldn't take much of your time. If you're interested in theory, I'll give you some specifics. Btw ... are there any WPian copyeditors you really love? - Dank (
1771:. Citation templates that are popular here at en.wp (so popular, in fact, that their inefficiencies were a driving force behind using Lua for templates) are not necessarily Lua-based at other wikis, or even not necessarily used at all. We'll need a system that works for manually formatted citations as well as those with citation templates.
3251:
Knowledge, and it's irrelevant in the face of the long-term plan, which is to figure out which editing environment the editor normally prefers, and to automatically minimize the other (you'd still be able to switch, probably similar to the way the 'Move' item is in the dropdown menu). Then everyone will have only 'the edit button'.
2159:
for a complete removal. The WMF made a counter-proposal in an attempt to negotiate a compromise that would provide them with the benefit of having a small fraction of inexperienced editors using VisualEditor, since the needs of power users and inexperienced users are very different. The community rejected all attempts at compromise.
916:). However, I spent some time putting together what I immodestly think are good ideas, posted on 21 June and six days later, not only do not have any comments, but not even an acknowledgement that they have been seen. I am anxious to work with you on this, as I think it is one of the more important initiatives I've seen ever.--
3267:
guess you're pretty much not going to do what I hoped for, and say "and honestly, we just really wanted to remove 'beta' too, and this seemed like a good opportunity". No worries, and thanks for taking so much time to explain the technicalities of something a simple mind like mine imagined would be, well, simple...
1816:). What had happened was that my mouse button had got stuck and I'd highlighted the gap rather than selecting it before editing it. Not sure if that's what's happening with all the others, but it's similar to what you do when you copy and paste things. Not sure if this helps but thought it might be useful.
3288:
As for your assumption that they "really wanted to remove 'beta'", I think that the devs honestly don't care whether it said "beta" or not any longer. In 2013, that might have been true. However, I've asked around about this several times since the 'beta' kludge was added (just to see what the devs
2008:
They need correct, useful responses, not yours. There are more than enough people who can reply, and who do it better than you. But I see that you have a rather inflated sense of your importance wrt VE and of the quality of your responses. I'll have to expose you for the fraud you are again and again
1952:
If that's what you like, then you may stop communicating with me. You will need to remember that any comment about VisualEditor that is posted on any page at en.wp, Meta, MediaWiki or
Commons (and occasionally other wikis, either as assigned by my boss or as requested by my teammates) is directed to
1542:
Thanks for reminding me of the bug number about accidental thanks. It's very depressing to see comments like "a load of fuss about a non-issue.". I do quite a lot of watch-list checking on my phone in the small hours while mildly insomniac, so liable to nod off and drop my index finger onto the green
933:
I appreciate your effort to post everything there, because that's the place that the devs are most likely to see the comments. I agree with you that this is one of the most important intiatives. Unfortunately, I've spent little time over at MediaWiki myself this week beyond a quick glance (it looks
680:
I'm going to start a new section down here to respond to
Whatamidoing (WMF)'s post of 19:48 on 12 June. I'd suggested on the wikimedia-L mailing list that we create an in-house user test to ask people to try certain basic editing tasks that would allow us to see whether it is able to handle the kind
4236:
Update: I got an answer at the template talk page that, I think, allows me to make sensible
TemplateData parameter definitions. I've done so but the TemplateData is not showing up in a VE edit session; as I recall a null edit is needed to make the TemplateData appear. Can you (or a helpful TPS) do
4044:
The overall numbering in the list seems improved a bit: apparently no ref is missing in the reflist. But you are correct, the numbering of the separate refs in the main text is still broken. Must have looked on the wrong references while checking. Oh well, I have already mentioned this basic problem
2584:
I know this, because I do this entirely repetitive, entirely automatible, core function over and over and over and over again at AfC, and I'm sure NPPers do it as well, or should be even if they forget to. There are days where I consider just giving up on trying to help new users create new articles
2113:
I do encourage you to consider the effects that your messages have on other editors, who are likely to be more comfortable posting their suggestions or complaints in a less hostile environment. MastCell isn't the only person to have mentioned this concern to you recently, and I urge you to consider
383:
Oh, and on the matter of the notice, I think the passive wording "VisualEditor has improved" is exactly the sort of statement that would annoy people. The sentiment should be an active but modest message from named parties (like the devs!) saying "we think we've improved it, we'd like to know if you
3266:
Thanks. So, the end result is that the 'edit-source' button can still be conditionally labelled "edit" or "edit source", but "beta" can't appear conditionally in a label because it kills performance, and that's all the community's "fault" for having a preference? Pesky community and its opinions. I
3129:
Loading 5 ASCII characters doesn't kill performance; loading a separate tag, after the rest of the tabs have been drawn, does affect performance. (See also the many complaints about flickering tabs when
Twinkle and other user scripts do the same thing.) Changing the main label to say "Use at your
3044:
The change was made yesterday. As for whether I endorse it: It should be tolerably obvious that I personally need no label on the button to remember that VisualEditor has problems, so why should I personally take any associated performance hit, no matter how small? I don't usually even click the
2696:
Yes, everything goes to mediawiki.org first (on Thursdays), and then to non-Knowledge sites (including Meta, I think) five days later (Tuesdays), and the next day to the Wikipedias (Wednesdays). It's a dogfooding system: if something's going to break, then it needs to break the devs' site first.
2158:
The WMF never rejected that RFC, despite claims by angry editors to the contrary. The page corruption problem was so significant that they knew it needed to be dialed back dramatically, even further than the significant drop they had engineered in early August. There were also WMF staff advocating
2143:
the MediaViewer onto Knowledge despite similar protests? Thanks for your reply, it clearly shos your role and the truthfullness of my remarks. "Formatting a direct quotation" is changing my comments, certainly becaues you added emphasis that wasn't even in the original. That you don't recognise the
1910:
idea. The script adds an item in the Cite menu "Cite from URL". Get a PubMed URL (the whole thing, with the PMID number in it, not the generic one). Paste it in to this tool as if it were a regular website, click the Insert button, and then open the new citation to see what it inserted for you.
1909:
and give it a try. This is "pre-alpha" testing, with absolutely zero guarantees that it will work at any given moment, and it's only available for testing here at the English Knowledge. What you see is definitely not what the final product will look like. However, it ought to give you an overall
1887:
Whether there is enough room to put the edit summary on the toolbar depends on how wide your computer screen is. There is already so much stuff there that some people are having it wrap to two fat lines. Zoom in a few times, or make your browser window narrow, and you'll see how annoying that can
1785:
So it's not so simple. It occurs to me now that this is only the simplest case, assuming everyone wants to use short references, which is definitely not true. And once ref starts to print page numbers, you'd run into myriad formatting issues in different languages. I guess it was this easy it would
3413:
I would like to answer your second invitation and I feel very honoured by your request. Following your first invitation I thought about leaving a comment, but after I checked my former comments, I thought I already said what I have to say. The tool as it is now, works very well, but it is not very
3334:
Hey WAID, thanks for the invitation to comment on VE. None of the things that I mentioned to you before have been fixed ... but I can't find my list. (All I can remember is: menu bar takes up much more space than is helpful at the top of the screen at the zoom I normally use, and paging down skips
2580:
Tools for assisting in detecting copyright violations. Duplicate Detective is a great example which has unfortunately been down for the last twelve hours, I would guess this has resulted in halting accepting new articles at Articles for Creation, moreover, the various tools for automated detection
1703:
What do you think of using the ref name itself (which is often in the form of "Bar 2010") as the short name, assuming a short-name system were what people settled on? I believe it would be possible to then link the "Bar 2010" part of the short citation to the full citation. Then you could have a
1086:
find words that copyeditors usually flag that I found in their recent A-class articles and FACs (and of course, they can customize the script). I'm working now on flagging words that aren't problems, but that I've seen in the vicinity of other problems. I don't know if this is useful info for the
249:
for enwiki, and lessons have been learned from last time: this time, the WMF not only wants beta testers feedback about the software, but also wants community feedback about when and how the community might approve the wider deployment of the VE. (implicit apology, appeal to forgiveness, appeal to
155:
Hi -- I'm following up to your comment on my talk page regarding the proposal of using a watchlist notice to publicise the VisualEditor beta. Before getting into the job of drafting the wording of the message, I thought I'd sum up the background of where I think we are, how we got here, and what I
4153:
Here's a question for you: From your perspective, does it make more sense to keep adding citation-related information into the main doc, or is that information a good candidate for splitting into a subpage? The user guide can't grow endlessly, but I don't know if this is the best information to
3901:
Ciao WhatIamdoing, It seems that the main complaint is of your friendly invitation message is that's not translated (yet). There is a team of translators active. Why not contact them first, before to share your thoughts everywhere? Perhaps a tip for the fiture? I like the direct way of contacting
3133:
NativeForeigner, I agree that template support is poor. On the other hand, table support isn't too bad, and the main reason that some complex pages use templates to build tables is because table editing in the wikitext editor is so difficult. Perhaps at some point those will be turned back into
2634:
Hope you got a nice break for the holidays! Firefox, Win 8, speedy computer. With this as with all VE issues, I never have similar problems using any other editor. VE now grabs Ctrl-F and initiates javascript intended to help me search ... and every time, I get a javascript error message that the
2180:
No idea what you imply with "it's long been obvious who thanks you for your statements", if you have something significant to say about those (at least those who used the thank me function), feel free to do so. And your interpretation of history is noted. Nicely indicates again your position. The
1336:
By my count, that means at least five more of the existing images in the User Guide are not current. I'm really reluctant to work around such problems; I'd rather know exactly what screenshot the reader of the Guide will be looking at, as I revise the text. Any idea when you'll be able to finish
1199:
In the user guide at MediaWiki, I added a level 3 heading, “Editing images”; and a new level 4 heading, “Using the “Basic" citation”. I didn't wrap these in translation tags because I don't know how translation numbers are assigned, and if there are other parts to the system besides HTML tags and
4176:
A split is a good idea to keep the information organized, and it would allow a better, more detailed coverage of complex sub-topics. "Referencing", "Templates" and "Table editing" (incl. row/column/cell functions within the table) are all good candidates for separate topic-specific subpages (not
3284:
There is no 'edit-source' button. There is only "The One True Editing Button™", which sometimes leads to the wikitext editor and sometimes leads to VisualEditor, depending on what your preferences are set to. Sometimes, again depending upon your preferences, there is also another button (which
2289:
It's not specific to the reflist template; it's all templates. I suspect that the inability to see refs transcluded from other pages is closely related, although I've never asked. I'm not aware of any onwiki discussions. I hassle the devs about it every few months, just to make sure nothing's
2266:
pretty confidently so I was wondering if you had some pointers to the technical discussion of updating references live while using reflist (including at least a tracking bug). Seems like a hard problem but seeing as reflist is widely used it's one we need to find a solution to (somehow). Thanks!
378:
Testing on naive users for usability studies is a good idea, but it's been tried already, with dismal results apparently showing the VE actually discouraged editing in new users -- not surprising considering the state of the software at that time. Naive-user usability testing should only be done
3920:
messages, which seemed like it might be a an undue burden. We prioritized the detailed survey page over it. (And the translators were indeed awesome.) However, if you think it wouldn't be too much of a burden, then I'd be happy to send them messages, if we ever do anything like this again.
3250:
Almost years ago, if the community hadn't been so insistent, we probably could have gotten engineering resources to make a button that always took you to VisualEditor and a separate one that always took you to the wikitext editor. Now I can't. It would require forking the code for the English
3117:
Just wandering by, but I am equally confused. Whether or not I'm interested in using Visual Editor, removing the Beta tag because of 20ms performance issues seems odd, and an attempt to sort of unofficially push things along while evading criticism. I don't really mind the removal of the tag by
2105:
I object to your false statement that "people like her would have converted Knowledge to a VE paradise long ago, with force if needed"; it's not true about me or about anyone that I work with. It might also be considered misleading to describe formatting a direct quotation of my own words (and
1971:
I don't give a flying toss about what your job is. It is a waste of money anyway. Act professional and I may care about your "professional" capacity. As it stands, all you'll do is annoy me and make a fool of yourself. My posts are not directed at you, and I don't want a reply from you. You can
835:
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, I have not yet had a chance to evaluate it as I am currently juggling my dads new job's paperwork, the family finances, and the recent discovery that there is literally a lethal level of mold in my room's two closets and the bathroom. I promise when i get a
3963:
está pedindo a sua ajuda com VisualEditor. Eu estou entrando em contato porque você saiu do VisualEditor várias vezes. Por favor, diga-lhes o que eles precisam mudar para fazer o VisualEditor funcionar para você, para que você não precise mudar para o editor wikitext. A equipe tem uma lista de
3246:
Your next question is probably "Why is 'the edit button' being used this way?" and the answer is largely because experienced editors at this community refused to change the button that leads them to the wikitext editor." I recommended (back in 2013) that these buttons be changed—so that "Edit
2082:
is much of an achievement). I have contributed many suggestions. My aim is to improve Knowledge. This is not the aim of many people at the WMF though. I don't think that this chasm is an inconsequential item, and the people representing and personifying that issue are one of the major problems
1039:
that uses mediawiki functions. If you add that to your .js file on en.wp, then every occurrence of wishy or washy will appear in bold for you ... and if you hover over the bolded word, you'll get some helpful advice. People would like for me to automate some of my copyediting advice using this
375:
I can't easily put a number on it. For the moment, I'd concentrate on getting experienced, frequent editors involved, particularly those with a history of community participation: I'd consider the 10,000 editors who have been most active in the last 12 months to be a good example of a group to
219:
discussion of what the community's criteria would be to consider VisualEditor production-ready, and how the production-ready VisualEditor might be introduced for general use -- this discussion will go much better if there are lots of happy beta testers in the discussion, not lots of angry beta
3442:
There is no reason to apologise and you are always welcome. At least, I could find my former feedback unlike other users, because nothing gets lost on my talkpage (I do not delete your posts, I just move them to the same section which I reservated personally for you). But for the moment it is
2073:
Volunteers can't be customers? Customers usually can leave and choose another shop as well, that doesn't mean that they don't have the right to complain of course. Never mind that wikipedia and the WMF are two distinct entities, and that I'm not going to leave Knowledge over problems with the
2243:. I stopped correcting errors caused by VE a long time ago, but others are still wasting many hours on them. For them, these issues are not inconsequential and the lack of helpful answers is troubling. My approach to it may be different, but the underlying issue doesn't seem to lie with me.
388:
statement of highly contestable fact from an unidentified entity that could easily be taken as arrogant or dismissive by readers with unpleasant memories of previous messaging by the WMF on the subject. It's always better to under-claim and over-deliver, rather than the reverse. Try this:
2086:
We don't need a "community liaison" who makes and defends statements like "I know that some people find the Agile approach irritating, but since you systematically search for incomplete features, you are consenting to it and supporting it. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:21, 29 January 2014
3764:
I have also recv'd the mssg cited above. There is a lot of Brazilian editors that can not understand your message, for this reason, I decided to translate to Portuguese to help the project. In this vein, find below your translated message to be sent to Portuguese speakers. Thank you,
166:
this annoyed experienced editors (many of whom were clearly professional software developers) who correctly indicated, right from the start, that the software was unusable in its current state, and gave copious feedback about exactly how and why, and what might need to be done to fix
1013:(A) Is that script (or a cut-down version of it) something I could use to highlight "WMF" whenever it appears on a talk page? (If you're thinking that I'd use this to notice whenever my boss had posted something, then of course I'll have to publicly deny any such accusation. :-)
625:
Hey, I'd be interested to read up on this testing that was done that had "dismal results". All the testing we've done has been quite the opposite, even in the early days with a few missing features, usability flaws and irritating bugs… Did we miss an investigation that someone did?
353:
I share your view of the RFC. I'd rather wait (at least) until autofilling is working for citations, and I want a bigger "installed base" of editors familiar with it before then. But I'm not really in charge of the timeline, as any community member could start a discussion at any
3068:
I used it more recently than that. Check my deleted edits, it was on a page for an Arbcom case that was deleted and moved. It screwed up a valid edit at the time, which pissed me off. Regardless of that, I'd like to see you justify the "performance" and "verbs" stuff, if you can.
3021:, based on that "performance improvement" rationale, then I despair. I certainly won't know "what you are doing" if you endorse that. As to the "verbs" argument, what? I get you guys want to do this, but, really, put something better than that forward. I'm embarrassed for you.
2028:, in fact) should have to put up with being treated the way you're treating WhatamIdoing over something as inconsequential as a software feature. You're free to disagree, and to criticize even in strongly worded terms, but this is straight-up verbal abuse and it needs to stop.
3532:
is just sitting there. I don't know, of course, but the fix might be creating a duplicate function that varies by a single character (replacing the space in pat.split(" ") in line 12 by, say, a tab character). Do you know if anyone has checked yet to see if that works? - Dank
3289:
are thinking about it), and I don't believe that anyone has really cared one way or the other about it for a year now. I suspect, that like most humans, they just got used to the way things were and didn't (until very recently) think that there was any reason to change it.
1726:
Use the same string for the ref name and the short name? A Perl programmer would like that :) But that's kind of an implementation detail. I think first we have to make the case for how this would make editors' lives easier. For example, one thing you often see is this:
2810:! Yes, there will be a test for the special character inserter. Right now, they're working on a bug with the window that the special character inserter uses, but I hope that it will be ready within a week or so. I will contact you as soon as it's ready. Trugarez!
1672:. Then throw an error if someone uses a page number with no short form defined. The logical place to define it would be the cite that gives the bibliographic info. It wouldn't necessarily have to be the first cite. The system already has to look up which <ref: -->
3647:
Leute, könntet Ihr eventuell eine Sprache benutzen, die ich auch verstehe? Und ich habe in meiner Frage nicht die Redewendung "Stück Scheiße" verwendet. Mist mag sich etymologisch auf Tierexkremente beziehen, hat aber inzwischen eine abgeschwächte Bedeutung.
4025:
That would indeed be nice, but it's still broken for me. "" is in the infobox, and "" at the end of the first paragraph, but I get "" in both places when I open it in VisualEditor. Can you check again, and tell me your web browser if it's working for you?
4059:
Thanks for mentioning it in the survey. I really appreciate it. I understand that there will be a couple of staff reading the survey responses who don't normally look in at the feedback pages, so this is another way to get that information to them.
2581:(e.g., CorenBot and it's descendents) are deeply hamstrung because nobody will pony up a few bucks to allow those tools to use Google, which means that all the automated copyright detection tools are at best about half as effective as they need to be.
3968:, mas eles também querem ouvir sobre probleminhas. Esses problemas podem tornar a edição menos agradavel, tomar muito do seu tempo, ou ser tão chato como um beliscão. A equipe de edição quer saber e tentar corrigir esses pequenos problemas, também.
750:
The item "Remove a link to another article" is a little ambiguous: I expect a couple of people to wonder whether you mean delete the link and word vs leaving the word, but remove the link. I assume that what you mean is that we're starting with
349:
Also, someone decreed last year that it's "VisualEditor", not "the VisualEditor". Because that's the sort of thing that trademark people fuss about, I assume that the legal team is the source of the decree. So it's really only 120 characters.
1483:
618:
Testing on naive users for usability studies is a good idea, but it's been tried already, with dismal results apparently showing the VE actually discouraged editing in new users -- not surprising considering the state of the software at that
1681:
parameter. You'd have to read the full info every time, only to discover that the only thing changed is the page number. Anyway, this is one of the most basic tags in wikitext, so any change would have to be considered very carefully.
3806:, we don't have an invitation message in different languages. Our valued translators have worked hard enough on the survey itself. We may consider translating the invitation messages in the future for other kind of initiatives. --
742:
The item "Add a "piped" link to another article" is probably going to confuse some people. Something like, "choose an existing word or phrase in the article, and make it link to a different article, so that you'll get the result
3477:
I am sorry that this last comment was not up to date. Like the character tool is now, it is very useful in many languages, but the editor is now a little bit unstable, especially at the beginning. We will continue to work on it.
2023:
Fram, if this is the way you treat another human being over a disagreement about a software feature, then there is something seriously wrong with your sense of perspective and your approach to social interaction. No employee (no
1285:) you can add if you feel like it, but don't even try to add the numbers; that's done by script. Also, adding the translate tags is why section editing doesn't work. Right now, section editing for the two new section headings
413:— "VisualEditor" vs. "the Visual Editor" or whatever — that's exactly the kind of marketing-led thing that needs to be stopped! You have no idea how crazy this sort of thing sounds to outsiders: please make it work properly
4177:
sure, which one I'd pick if I had to choose). The main documentation page should still contain a complete description of the main toolbar, its primary submenus and a brief summary of all functions in those menus (basically
3130:
own risk" would have no measurable performance cost compared to "Edit", even though it would add 15 more ASCII characters. The cost isn't in the letters; the cost is in constructing "Edit beta" out of two separate tags.
3693:
Du sprichst offensichtlich perfekt Deutsch und schickst englischsprachige Massennachrichten an deutschsprachige Benutzer? Das muss ich nicht verstehen... Egal, Hauptsache mein Hinweis ist nicht vulgär angekommen. Grüße
2077:
Apart from that: have you even followed the whole VE situation and the VE feedback page, or are you only looking at the end result? I have spent more time debugging VisualEditor than the WMF combined probably (not that
3797:
I have one group left from which we could take out the pt. users, if there were any, to message them separately, but those would not be feedback givers, so the translation would partially not apply to them. Thank you,
1673:
defines the "name =", because that's where the "abc..." links go. This would be for cases where the full info appears in the footnotes, and still wouldn't satisfy the people who prefer an alphabetical reference list.
3601:
As the message said, he was invited to provide feedback because he provided feedback in the past. I invited everyone who provided a certain level of feedback, not just the people who are friendly to VisualEditor.
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1597:
3350:
I still have your list, and I reminded them about the zoomed-in menu bar just two days ago. They are planning to deal with that, but in the meantime, they've just gone and made it slightly worse. (Ah, progress.)
1937:. You are a total waste of time, getting things wrong so often that it has gone from funny to extremely annoying and embarassing. Please do not reply any more to comments, questions, reports, .. I make, anywhere.
1993:
If you choose to post about a problem in a public forum, then a reply is usually appropriate. Other people read those pages, too, and they may need the answers or responses even if you choose not to read them.
1932:
Whatamidoing (WMF), I would be grateful if you could stop replying to comments and questions I make which aren't directly and explicitly meant for you. If I have a question for you, I'll ping you. But otherwise,
1228:) should be replaced. It would be better to be of the entire infobox, not the upper two-thirds, or, if that is too much to put into the image, it should be of the bottom two-thirds of the infobox (of the article
476:
Hi -- sorry about the tetchy tone of my previous comment. Subject to the approval of the developers themselves (since we can't speak for them without their permission) I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be
2039:
No customers should put up with being the way the WMF is treating them over and over and over again. Strangely, some do. More and more people no longer accept it though. I treat someone over a software feature
331:
that this is the right approach, but that this is too soon to do it. Let the beta program win hearts and minds first, by convincing experienced editors that the VE is actually approaching release-readiness. --
1972:
absorb the information in them and file bugzilla reports to your hearts delight, but any reply you'll give will either be treated as non-existant or be mercilessly exposed for the piece of crock it usually is.
431:
I don't believe that most people will be upset with following directions from the legal team, especially since maintaining some consistency between language editions helps editors who are not native English
1488:
Perhaps I was just hiding behind the barn door on this one, but how does one unsubscribe from the Virtual Editor messages on one's Talk page and delete past Virtual Editor "newsletters" on one's talk page?
2381:
2331:
Hello. I am the user trying to correctly credit Rick Azar for dubbing that Buffalo Sabres hockey line the French Connection. Thanks for your input on how to try to go about securing adequate verification.
762:
Finally, a link to the user guide would probably be a good idea. The one on the English Knowledge might be a little better written, but it's probably not quite as up to date as the one on MediaWiki.org.
2199:
The special character inserter is waiting for the design team. The just-ending quarter was focused on technical debt, so even with a good design in hand, it might not have been implemented immediately.
1291:
work, if you want to use them to "only" edit the last half of the page at once. When they're marked for translation, the section editing will break. So my recommendation is to not do that for a while.
191:
the devs have done a massive amount of work and greatly improved VisualEditor, including fixing all the awful show-stopper bugs that were identified the first time around, and it's now true beta-quality
2293:
On a related note, maybe the best thing we could do is to stop using the reflist template when its only value is providing an expensive way to put the plain contents of the references tag on the page.
2088:
435:
I like your "appeal from the developers" idea. In my check of recent watchlist notices, all but one used passive voice, but I think that your marketing sense is better than the previous posters there.
3443:
pointless to work with me, because you decided for another direction as the one I suggested. My advice is to check it with other languages and you will probably rethink some of your former decisions.
3098:
No, that's fine. You've been very helpful. I beg your pardon for questioning the obviously solid rationales. "View" and "read" are verbs by the way, if the devs are struggling, on the other question,
2861:
2412:
you mentioned the pawn-based system is likely to be replaced soon. Sorry I didnt respond sooner, and thank you for the reply. Do you have a gerrit link or bug number for that? Much appreciated.
2139:
Don't you work with Erik Moeller? Or the other people who didn't implement the VE RfC (to make it opt-out) until they were forced by the community here? Erik Moeller, who also tried very hard to
3150:"Changing Mediawiki:Vector-view-edit to whatever you wanted would have no effect on performance. It's the Mediawiki:visualeditor-beta-appendix label itself, not the letters in it, that matters"
1498:
3977:. Você pode responder a esta rápida e simples pesquisa anonimamente no seu próprio idioma. Se você responder a pesquisa, então você concorda suas respostas podem ser utilizadas de acordo com
2091:. Asking her not to reply to me seemed the least intrusive thing to do, but clearly this was not acceptable to her. The WMF voice has to be heard always and everywhere, no exceptions allowed.
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3197:
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276:, overall I agree with you, but I'm a little skeptical that it this much information can be packed into a watchlist notice. Something very short, like, "You can opt-in to VisualEditor via
3084:
What counts as "justifying"? The devs say that the label slowed down pageload (for reading pages) by 20 ms per page. Do you want proof that it really did cost 20 ms to load the label?
967:
3102:, but I can clearly see how loading an extra 5 ASCII characters could utterly kill performance. No point just blindly adhering to "standards" when "performance" is at stake, eh? Thanks.
1407:
I'd noticed the hieroglyphics problem; I need to talk to James F about it. I'll update the math image. I don't know what's up with Advanced settings. I'll have a look later this week.
1667:
is ever expanded this way. But some people don't like that and prefer short form cites. To accommodate short forms, we could require that a short form be defined whenever a <ref: -->
3395:
Okay, I've saved all that to its own file now and tied a string around it so I won't forget. I'll check in with MRG after I've got some initial responses to my questionnaire. - Dank (
1309:, I've removed #2 and updated the other three. I've also marked some of the auto-translated labels. (The "int:long-messy-string" things do auto-translation; the "<tvar|mess: -->
1165:
No objection, I just don't have much time to be involved myself until I'm done with WP:Trop and WP:Milhist. But I'm available to answer basic questions, tweak software, etc. - Dank (
1327:
I'll take a look at the new screenshots, and continue working on the User Guide. I'm not that concerned about finding ideal screenshots - I just want ones that are current/accurate.
3587:
Since Google Translate is less than helpful on this one: What makes you think I'd use this piece of crap? I've had a look at it, I shook my head sadly, and turned it off. - Dank (
3054:
Why don't you give it a try for a while? This week's improvements will appear in about two hours, and that would be a good time to see how much has changed since your last look.
406:
This is old-school PR stuff: appeals should always come from an identifiable source, see for example, the wording "An appeal from Jimbo Wales" that works so well for fundraising.
1607:
happens, that is stressful. Imagine if your bank's website had a zero-confirmation "donate $ 5 from your checking account to our choice of charities" button. Even if you only
1468:
It's okay, really: if you and I make mistakes on only 1% of our edits, then we'll have made literally hundreds of mistakes over the years. Thanks for noticing and fixing it.
1708:
that separated the short citations from full ones. It would "require" ref names that you didn't mind looking at, in the sense that it would expose the ref names to readers. (
4432:
Thanks for the note. Because of the naming scheme, the lists have to be managed manually. I've added the current and the next one, to halve the problem of missing links.
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for complex language scripts. Pretty much everything that David does, and about half of what Roan's working on at the moment, is related to the pawn-replacement work. In
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This week, if you have VisualEditor enabled, you still see two buttons. The only difference is that button #1 is just one tag, rather than being constructed out of two.
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1737:. They have to define a ref name and ref content for every page they want to cite more than once. Wouldn't it be handy if they could define it once and for all as say
1000:
3152:, my apologies. So why was the word "Beta" removed at all, in that case, if the performance issue could be solved without removing the warning, simply by editing
2311:
should probably be discouraged as a completely pointless (although very small) drain on performance. (It used to change the font size, but that was years ago.)
126:
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There are still more to go, but I think those were the highest priority. If you decide that you don't like any of the images, then just tell me what you want.
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That the devs and WMF have listened to the community, and that the devs have put in a vast amount of work in response, to make the VE better (appeal to sympathy)
3820:
Well, I don't understand, because the invitation message is translated (see below)..., but, anyhow, the message in English has to be corrected. Where you read "
1919:
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There are two problems here: the name of the icon is NOT displaying correctly, and there is no information below, in the User Guide, so “(See below.)” is wrong.
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The annoyance with the i and garbage can is already on the list. The problem is how to get it out of our way without making it impossible for other people to
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when browsing with chrome, and you'll see what i mean. (ff has something too, via "submit feedback" from the help menu, but chrome's is better, IMO) peace -
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4127:(I couldn't find any other actual information about the topic on en-Wiki). I hope, this is OK - please let me know, if anything is wrong or needs updating.
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I'll get the images (tomorrow?). For the first, do you want a completely empty dialog box? For the last, I was thinking about finding a shorter infobox.
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Was bringt Dich auf den dünnen Ast ich würde dieses Mistding verwenden? Ich habe es mir angesehen, traurig den Kopf geschüttelt und es abgeschaltet. Grüße
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button, or half-drop the phone and hit it that way. But it's a non-issue. Same sort of reaction as I'm used to in my comments on VE dialogue box. Ah well.
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3428:
Thank you for your kind comment. I apologize for the multiple invitations. We've been trying to sync lists, but it appears to be an imperfect science.
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A null edit on the template itself. It's just open the page and click the save button, without making any changes and without adding any edit summary.
4084:
I am having a serious attack of RL over the next 14 days (new grandchild) - compounded by Wiki life. When I surface I will take a serious look at VE.--
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4006:
Hello Whatamidoing, not exactly a bug report, but has anything changed with VE support of reflist and efn/sfn templates lately? My reason for asking is
2972:
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I've been told you will launch a test for "the special character inserter" on Visual Editor. I'm a breton user and I would like to be part of this test.
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1666:, which displays the page number after the footnote number in the text. The documentation for Rp says explicitly that Rp won't be needed if <ref: -->
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I didn't add the link, if that's what's causing the problem, I just tried to tidy the English in the opening paragraph. Sorry if that's not much help.
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because doing it in the current environment is essentially working with one if not both hands tied behind my back by a lack of very simple automation.
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392:"An appeal from the developers: we've been improving VisualEditor, and we're looking for volunteers to test it. You can opt-in to it via Beta Features"
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I predict a complaint about using the pronoun "we". Would a passive voice work for you, like "VisualEditor has improved, and volunteers are needed"...
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happened when I changed the capitalisation on a couple of piped links using the VE. Would you mind passing it on to the developers for me, please? --
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I assumed that The Anome was talking about the June 2013 A/B test that had so many problems (like not working when they first tried to turn it on).
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Ever since their code shadowed (grabbed) Ctrl-F. Don't have an acct at mediawiki.org ... will they be bringing the upgrade to meta or here? - Dank (
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I believe that it would be possible to produce footnotes that looked like from this, but I think you're right that this is a less popular approach.
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the original deployment of VisualEditor was done far too early in the development process, with the software being alpha- or pre-alpha test quality
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If you made a list of the "valuable tools" that should be turned into MediaWiki core features or MediaWiki extensions, what would be on the list?
442:. In addition, VisualEditor is being used, with apparent success, by thousands of IPs and newly registered users each day at other Wikipedias.
235:
The first step is then recruiting beta program members. What messages should that campaign convey? I think the salient points are the following:
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changed, but the answer so far has always been "can't be done" (and now with a hint of "give it up already, the answer's not going to change").
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That sounds like enough work for two or three people. Don't worry; Knowledge will be here when you get back. Good luck with all that work!
395:(pedantry corner: 158 characters. all from the 7-bit ASCII set, so it still fits, bit-packed, into the 140 bytes available within an SMS: see
2650:. How long has this been going on? Is it happening at mediawiki.org? (They supposedly just changed it there to make it more performant.)
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927:
280:" seems to be pretty typical for a watchlist notice, and I don't think that its Twitter-sized length permits very much explanation or nuance.
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to say "Edit beta" now (well, any local admin can, but it'll get reverted quickly and people will come yell at you) will be obvious if you
732:, it might be good to add a link to Beta Features and instructions for enabling it, just in case anyone who is interested doesn't know how.
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First of all, you're not a customer. You're a volunteer. Inherent in the idea of volunteering is that your association with Wikimedia is
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me in my professional capacity, regardless of who posts the information and regardless of whether the message contains my name or not.
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Naive-user usability testing should only be done again once all the major bugs have been ironed out with the help of experienced users.
3742:
But this message was in English. An other guy on frwp get it a few weeks ago, in English too. Something may be wrong on your mailing.
206:
condition their expectations appropriately this time -- no claims that the software's production-ready, or that deployment is imminent
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At T:222, the image has been overtaken by events - it should be of the “Insert citation” button, not of the “Apply changes” button.
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moment I'll look into your suggestion fully and unconditionally, but for now my attention is understandably needed in other places.
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didn't want to talk to me, then he wouldn't have started so many conversations with me since the conversation you allude to (e.g.,
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then, once the new beta test phase is going well, and it's clear that the devs, beta testers, and WMF are all communicating well:
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Apologies that I put my "thank you" in the section above. Thanks you, again. I am trying to work on your suggestions. alanez5011
1211:) is wrong - the image in the User Guide shows the EDITING of an existing citation. The image should be of ADDING a new citation.
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The other most prolific "supporter" of VE seems to also have trouble with the replies given by Whatamidoing (WMF), as evidenced
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I would only add that any functionality to help there would have utility on any use of MediaWiki open to the general public. --
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Sorry; it slipped my mind with the endless set of planning meetings that are being inflicted upon us right now. Yes, I asked
3372:(and now) scrolling to the wrong point upon save. (The end of the page? That's even less useful than scrolling to the top.)
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You're right. That was sloppy of me. Unfortunately, it would probably annoy people to go back and change all of them now.
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Not really -- did you get a reply from the dev team? More beta testers for the VE has to be good for absolutely everyone. --
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3591:) 14:24, 25 March 2015 (UTC) P.S. On second thought, perhaps you didn't need a more precise translation of that ... - Dank (
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3981:. Esta pesquisa é feita pela Qualtrics e o uso de suas informações é governado pelos política de privacidade da Qualtrics.
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Translation numbers ("T:123") are assigned automagically when the page is officially sent to translators. The plain tags (
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1269:'s are both moderately short, but I was kind of hoping to find something even shorter. (Further searching...) How about
1232:). (A new screenshot is needed anyway because the template edit icon is now near the bottom of the template, not the top.)
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I've asked, but I don't know if I'll get a reply this afternoon. It will need a link to Beta Features. Anything else?
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3220:(only), and it takes you to the wikitext editor. Last week, if you had VisualEditor enabled, then you saw two buttons:
3216:
is "the edit button", not "the button that takes you to VisualEditor". If you have VisualEditor disabled, then you see
1835:
Hey WAID, gave it another try. Referencing is getting their. It needs an autofill function though. How far out is this?
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Actually, I don't really care about the tag one way or the other. It is a pointless tag, but it is really unimportant.
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and click on 'Edit'. (Then grumble a bit, because the sandbox template there is a little awkward. You need to click
2685:
and see what happens. DerHexer just moved an account out of your path last week. With a little luck, when you go to
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3870:; my mistake! :) Do not hesitate to ask if you have a lack of French translators, I'll be happy to spread the word.
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Note that I hid the stuff about subst:ing templates (and didn't update the screenshots): it's not working for me.
559:'s idea about a list of suggested things to test would be useful here. We could link to it more or less like this:
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1021:(B) I'd be happy to file any bug report or enhancement request for you. Just post what you want it to say here.
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wird zwar im Wörterbuch als "vulgär" eingestuft, wird aber nicht als besonders anstössig oder derb empfunden.
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There are four problematical images I've found, going through sections 1 to 6 plus the beginning of section 7:
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of editing a new or inexperienced editor is most likely to perform. I've drafted up a "test instructions page
4146:! The docs need a complete overhaul. It's on my list, but I've got to get through the things I've missed at
3984:
3916:
It's not a question of translating "my message". It would have been a question (in this case) of translating
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of the way it is being done. As always, you are free to quit providing that support whenever you choose to.
4045:
in the survey - even if chances for a fix are currently slim. Thanks for double-checking this, Whatamidoing.
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Ich spreche genug Deutsch, um dunkle Schokolade zu bestellen. (Was braucht Mann denn sonst?) Schreiben ist
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it. Last I heard, someone had a clever idea, but it hadn't been tested yet. I'm hopeful that it will work.
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for the page. The material I removed (strictly in my capacity as a long-time volunteer) was apparently a
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I don't think I would support repeating the full info every time, because that defeats the purpose of the
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There is nothing in the User Guide for one of the items on the Page settings menu, “Advanced settings” --
1838:
Also when one hits "enter" it should take you to the next line rather than to the i and garbage can IMO.
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any image containing a "<" in the upper left corner or an "X" in the upper right corner is out of date
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Technically, the messages were sent from Meta, and I don't believe that Meta has any such rule. ;-)
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Hello, I shamelessly copied most of your Citoid information from the latest newsletter and added it to
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would know whether your proposed fix would work. He's pretty awesome with MediaWiki interface stuff.
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1054:. If there's anything else that should be added, then I can post comments for you whenever you want.
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Formal testing on naïve users is already being done; you can see a brief report on the latest round at
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It's a little tough to come up with single-word scripts that are useful, but I'm giving it a shot at
2862:
Knowledge:Village pump (technical)/Archive 133#Sigh... why does WP add extra steps to report a bug ?
4413:
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recruit as many experienced editors as possible to the currently existing VisualEditor beta program
3100:"There isn't any action associated with "Project page", so I don't think that it could be a verb."
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We've been doing sporadic user testing with VisualEditor for a while, and we've started regularly
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555:, and he's basically fine with making this kind of request in the name of the devs. I wonder if
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You are being notified because you have participated in previous discussions on the same topic.
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2689:, you'll be able to login at mediawiki.org and everywhere else (and also not have to deal with
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1600:. It might be interesting for you to look it over and guess how often this has happened to you.
987:
Hey WAID, I'm automating some of my copyediting advice. I asked for tech advice in February at
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Any special reason why you had left a message on his TP when he doesn't want to talk to you?
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That VisualEditor is much improved, and worth a second try (appeal to curiosity and altruism)
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WMF to then plan the production release of the VE in a way that meets the community's wishes
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What? I thought we were only allowed to canvass people who will say nice things. - Dank (
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1379:" icon (an ankh symbol - ☥) allows you to enter the hieroglyphics inserter. (See below.)
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I am always greedy for translators, and I hope to be doing something about that soon.
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Okay, I was able to log in to mediawiki.org, and Ctrl-F worked in VE. Thanks! - Dank (
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Would be nice if the edit summary occurred beside insert rather than on its own page.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Yoshiaki_Oiwa&diff=prev&oldid=625735625
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again once all the major bugs have been ironed out with the help of experienced users.
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2770:. It would be very nice to have more material about him written in your own words.
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You can use VisualEditor as an IP there, even if the account merge fails; just go to
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devs ... they might want to see that I'm working on something non-trivial :) - Dank (
562:
21:
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I've recived your invitation for the VE survey on my talk page on frwp. Thank you!
309:
VisualEditor, and we're looking for volunteers to test it. You can opt-in to it via
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The screen got shifted over so that the first half of each letter wasn't visible.
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You remove the old ones just like you would blank any section on any page. The
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I appreciate that you are reaching out and asking for ideas about referencing. (
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and put it up. Can you check with the dev group that they're fine with this? --
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isn't private, and it's long been obvious who thanks you for your statements.
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2014:
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allow editors to remove almost any talk page message from their own talk pages.
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1355:, I think it was seven or eight, actually, but I believe they're all done now.
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OK -- what do I need to ask them to do? A null edit to the template itself?
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I think I might have some useful data. I had a similar problem on one edit (
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That sounds like an interesting approach. The citation system is written in
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Unsubscribing/deleting past Virtual Editor "newsletters" on one's talk page?
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only now did i actually read your comment in the discussion archived here:
2766:. Copying material off of other websites and pasting it into Knowledge is
2475:": "Login and click the pencil icon to open the page you want to edit." --
2468:
2283:
2268:
1453:
time I've done that to you and I apologize. It was entirely an accident. --
1262:
973:
875:
784:, where do we stand on this project? Is there anything I can do to help?
3850:
Sure, the pt.wp editors will get the translated message, thanks to you. --
3872:
3803:
3783:, can you use this in today's messages, or have they already been sent?
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is far better qualified than I to tell you what's technically feasible.)
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You might try "patients" as a one-word sometimes-problematic word, since
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Thanks, and congratulations! What a happy reason to take a wikibreak.
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2830:-I simply wrote: citation needed -surrounded by: {{ }} -without a date.
1697:
Thanks for your reply. I agree that we need to consider this carefully.
245:
That this is the opening shot in a larger plan of getting VE deployment
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Knowledge talk:VisualEditor/Default State RFC#I've given up testing V/E
1454:
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this was taken very badly by the community, and there was a furious row
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I'm always interested in theory. However, I think you should talk to
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clicked it by accident, its existence would be needlessly stressful.
1209:
File:VisualEditor - Editing references - Cite book required fields.png
68:
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Why did you delete the expansion of my father's entry Sir EE Pochin??
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2010:
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1310:" stuff gets the auto-translating stuff out of the translators' way.)
1217:
At T:75, the image is outdated. The New template dialog has changed (
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To stop future deliveries, then remove your name from the list at
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the WMF then ignored them, and pushed ahead regardless -- this is
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split off, and even if it is, I don't know if now is the time. (
3209:
3051:
I see that you've not used VisualEditor for about six months now.
1372:
Okay, I'm finished, I think. Here are what I see as open issues:
1036:
2463:
A sentence in the Visual Editor newsletter incorrectly uses the
2117:
Finally, I also thank you, again, for your voluntary, practical
739:
as a test item? That really shouldn't be used in the mainspace.
4007:
3134:
plain old tables, and you'll use VisualEditor to update them.
3045:
button, since the keyboard shortcut of ctrl-option-v is faster.
2366:
It's okay, and it's easy to fix. Good luck with your editing,
3992:
Inscreva-se no boletim informativo multilingue do VisualEditor
3954:
e compartilhar suas idéias com os desenvolvedores do programa.
3492:
I left a description of current problems with the beta editor
3544:
I've marked it as "Stalled", which will generate bugmail for
2431:
I don't see anything obvious in Bugzilla. It ought to be in
1412:
1386:
File:VisualEditor - editing existing mathematical formula.png
3529:
1841:
The ref occurs over a continue line, thus I am happy here.
968:
Finally joining the 20th century. Still working on the 21st.
417:, before you decide how to manage the "brand messaging". --
2799:
2795:
2410:
Knowledge:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2014_4#Pawns? still
2301:
is my personal favorite for displaying refs, but plain old
3528:... the bug you and I reported a long time ago that's now
2833:
Does that help? --Emborion 01:46, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
2686:
1570:
Wikipedia_talk:Notifications/Thanks#Thanks_and_mobile_view
1375:
The discussion of the Insert menu includes the following:
66:
to this revision, which may differ significantly from the
2262:
Hey, I'd post this on the feedback page but you answered
1905:, if you'd like to test the autofill, then you can match
1768:
1656:, I think the simplest way to implement it would be like
4403:
isn't showing up in the list of archives at the top of
1742:
and then refer to it with a different page number, say
1877:. It'll be a couple of months, from the sounds of it.
1277:? Do you think that including an image is important?
305:
How about something like this: "We've been improving
180:
the VisualEditor deployment on enwiki was rolled back
3369:
Adding unstyled words next to styled text is a pain.
2384:
Knowledge:Village pump (proposals) Media Viewer RfC
2110:
my own words) as editing another person's comments.
1101:prefers "people" most of the time. Quite a bit at
188:
I think the WMF has now learned from the experience
2121:for the development of VisualEditor, despite your
1749:I understand that the cite templates are coded in
1337:updating all the screenshots now in the Guide? --
1151:Would it make sense to talk to WPMED about this?
209:use their feedback to improve VisualEditor further
1378:The "<visualeditor-mwhieroinspector-title: -->
4259:You need an admin to do that, and I'm not one.
914:Knowledge:Village_pump_(technical)#Looking_ahead
3902:editors on their TalkPages. In bocca al lupo,
3357:The menu turns enormous when you zoom in a lot.
2705:the section heading to type anything useful.)
4401:Knowledge:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive 2015 2
4158:, I always want to know what you think, too.)
2435:, because it's fundamentally about supporting
1670:<ref name=Foo short="Bar 2010" page=10: -->
991:, and got a code snippet that I've tweaked at
313:." 124 characters including the full stop. --
2258:Bugzilla discussion for updating with reflist
1572:, having found that page for the first time!
1141:, I've added "patients" to the list. - Dank (
1133:Actually ... now you've got me thinking. Per
1035:To the devs and volunteer coders: please see
2867:best example i know is google chrome: click
2404:Replacement for the entire pawn-based system
3414:useful for me and I do not really use it.
1867:) (if I write on your page reply on mine)
1226:File:VisualEditor - Template editing 1.png
1219:File:VisualEditor - Template editing 4.png
195:the editor community has calmed down again
3945:
3239:, which took you to the wikitext editor.
3232:, and which took you to VisualEditor and
2952:Because I'm seriously worried about him.
2608:
199:I propose the following long-term plan:
47:
3208:able VisualEditor in Beta Features and
3200:. And the reason why you can't change
2042:in the context of that software feature
640:the outcomes of the testing we've done.
75:
14:
3972:Você pode compartilhar suas opiniões,
1207:At T:218, the “Cite book” screenshot (
327:Regarding the draft RFC: I agree with
174:how a beta program is supposed to work
159:This, I believe, is the story so far:
76:Revision as of 06:23, 20 May 2015 by
44:
25:
4405:Knowledge talk:VisualEditor/Feedback
4002:Confused about reflist support in VE
3743:
3237:Mediawiki:visualeditor-ca-editsource
3230:Mediawiki:visualeditor-beta-appendix
3198:Mediawiki:visualeditor-beta-appendix
3158:Mediawiki:visualeditor-beta-appendix
2635:script has stopped working. - Dank (
1979:. Not a comma, not a typo, nothing.
1744:<ref name=Smith2010 page=54/: -->
1739:<ref name=Smith2010 page=10/: -->
1105:might work for a proof of concept.
1016:Yes, but you didn't hear it from me.
17:
1935:I don't want your "help" ever again
1928:Please don't reply to me ever again
693:, what do you think of this idea?
561:...we're looking for volunteers to
440:mw:VisualEditor/Design/User testing
226:community ratification of the above
139:
108:
3944:
3524:Since you've got lots of free time
1734:<ref name="Smith2010 p12": -->
1668:page number is cited. For example
254:Does that seem reasonable to you?
156:think is needed to make progress.
140:
4454:
4125:Knowledge:VisualEditor/User guide
2786:Visual editor on breton Knowledge
1977:do not change my posts ever again
1729:<ref name="Smith2010 p10": -->
1706:<references group=short /: -->
1520:Knowledge:VisualEditor/Newsletter
409:Oh, and by the way, the issue of
357:Here's another question for you,
62:. The present address (URL) is a
4423:
3744:
3224:"Edit beta", constructed out of
2758:You can see my rationale in the
1629:Re: Odd Thing From Visual Editor
1411:
908:Feedback sent, has it been seen?
874:
713:who is also interested in this.
685:and a standardized test sandbox
4371:Knowledge:VisualEditor/Feedback
3669:eine treffende Übersetzung von
2802:) 20:57, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
97:
52:
3830:More information (including a
3822:More information (including a
3363:Re-loading lost all your work.
3210:look at the labels on the page
3188:Because "Edit beta" wasn't in
3156:at the same time as disabling
2321:23:41, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
2277:14:03, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
2253:07:59, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
2195:20:36, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
2176:19:54, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
2154:04:37, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
2135:00:22, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
2101:21:37, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
2069:21:18, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
2054:19:32, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
2035:16:35, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
2019:04:29, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
2004:21:10, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
1989:19:14, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
1963:16:58, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
1947:06:57, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
1920:21:04, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
1898:19:23, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
1869:11:07, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
1826:09:44, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
1796:03:33, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
1781:23:16, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
1763:22:40, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
1735:Smith 2010, p. 12</ref: -->
1730:Smith 2010, p. 10</ref: -->
1722:17:34, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
1692:14:40, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
13:
1:
2908:01:24, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
2889:23:26, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
2847:17:56, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
2625:21:36, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
2595:18:59, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
2560:06:29, 17 November 2014 (UTC)
2524:17:17, 15 November 2014 (UTC)
1654:Wikipedia_talk:Citing_sources
1603:I'd add that even if it only
1419:, at least a hundred times.
3966:problemas de alta prioridade
3366:"Clear styling" kills links.
2820:21:46, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
2780:16:54, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
2753:10:44, 13 January 2015 (UTC)
2727:00:02, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
2715:23:09, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
2500:23:54, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
2485:22:00, 6 November 2014 (UTC)
7:
3866:Thank you for your answer,
2670:19:02, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
2660:17:04, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
2641:16:24, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
2510:Hi! Any idea of why didn't
2467:"login" where it needs the
2453:17:28, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
2419:14:43, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
2399:20:15, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
2376:18:40, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
2361:11:08, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
2342:10:48, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
2210:19:40, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
1643:23:37, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
1621:16:51, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
1592:08:23, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
1563:07:47, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
1532:22:01, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
1499:09:53, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
1478:06:54, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
1463:06:49, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
1429:22:46, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
1401:16:58, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
1195:VE User Guide tweaks needed
826:07:55, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
24:of this page, as edited by
10:
4459:
4391:15:49, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
4365:04:59, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
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4055:18:21, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
4036:18:00, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
4020:17:52, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
3996:Traduzir o guia do usuário
3931:17:36, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
3912:09:21, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
3891:00:29, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
3877:20:58, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
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3562:18:27, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
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3506:08:14, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
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3438:15:56, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
3424:15:00, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
3401:20:34, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
3391:20:13, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
3345:15:42, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
3318:17:45, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
3299:21:49, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
3278:04:30, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
3261:20:08, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
3226:Mediawiki:vector-view-edit
3218:Mediawiki:vector-view-edit
3214:Mediawiki:vector-view-edit
3202:Mediawiki:vector-view-edit
3194:Mediawiki:vector-view-edit
3190:Mediawiki:vector-view-edit
3171:01:29, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
3154:Mediawiki:Vector-view-edit
3144:18:00, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
3125:02:38, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
3113:00:18, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
3094:17:33, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
3080:16:43, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
3064:16:31, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
3032:16:07, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
3006:06:44, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
2979:Thanks for describing it.
1786:have happened long ago. --
1368:23:27, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
1347:01:12, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
1323:21:04, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
1302:01:47, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
1249:03:29, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
1121:User:Dank/Highlighter/list
971:
283:By the way, have you seen
95:
50:
4113:05:17, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
4098:20:20, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
3828:", it should be spelled "
3018:If you make this change:
2973:04:17, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
2945:17:52, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
1652:About your suggestion on
1568:I've just raised this at
1330:On that topic, you said:
1171:01:16, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
1161:00:50, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
1147:21:22, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
1129:20:23, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
1115:19:42, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
1093:19:17, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
1074:01:09, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
1064:01:00, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
960:14:25, 28 June 2014 (UTC)
944:22:49, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
928:16:12, 27 June 2014 (UTC)
900:05:13, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
873:
794:15:28, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
773:18:14, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
723:06:26, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
703:04:47, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
666:00:05, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
652:20:31, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
580:19:48, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
547:19:13, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
250:reason and self-interest)
151:VisualEditor beta program
4442:06:23, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
4437:
4417:03:33, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
4300:
4264:
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4148:WP:VisualEditor/Feedback
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3732:Invitation for VE survey
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3235:"Edit source", which is
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939:
889:VisualEditor is supreme!
861:03:23, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
856:
846:00:42, 6 June 2014 (UTC)
789:
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755:and want to end up with
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505:23:35, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
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491:18:01, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
452:18:01, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
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427:23:10, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
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342:20:52, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
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297:18:41, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
292:
267:12:32, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
3548:at least. I wonder if
2693:-related issues later).
1740:Smith 2010</ref: -->
1513:WP:Talk page guidelines
993:User:Dank/wishywashy.js
570:. What do you think?
565:. You can opt-in to it
3955:
3354:Paging down is broken.
2613:
1538:Dropping the mobile...
1381:
1335:
1283:...</translate: -->
1119:I did WTW in regex at
1082:. The first one helps
882:The Technical Barnstar
329:User:Jdforrester (WMF)
220:testers like last time
4407:. Could you help? --
4181:for documentations).
3986:Descadastrar da lista
3974:clicando neste "link"
3949:
3148:Ah, yes, as you said
2612:
1975:And whatever you do,
1808:Recent No-Wiki Issues
1376:
1331:
1254:Thanks for the note,
1139:User:Dank/rollyourown
145:June 2013 to May 2014
4369:Belay that. I found
4119:Documentation Citoid
3736:Hello Whatamidoing
3307:Yes. You are right.
2881:קיפודנחש (aka kipod)
2683:Special:MergeAccount
2630:VE searching problem
2437:input method editors
1224:At T:77, the image (
3379:User:Moonriddengirl
2764:copyright violation
2441:this list on Gerrit
1596:Your Thanks log is
1449:I think that's the
1068:Fantastic. - Dank (
867:A barnstar for you!
115:← Previous revision
4434:Whatamidoing (WMF)
4297:Whatamidoing (WMF)
4261:Whatamidoing (WMF)
4160:Whatamidoing (WMF)
4105:Whatamidoing (WMF)
4062:Whatamidoing (WMF)
4028:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3956:
3950:Obrigado por usar
3923:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3883:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3875:
3785:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3757:
3714:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3681:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3628:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3604:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3554:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3430:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3383:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3291:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3253:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3196:and "beta" was in
3136:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3086:Whatamidoing (WMF)
3056:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2965:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2900:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2839:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2812:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2707:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2699:mw:Project:Sandbox
2652:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2614:
2552:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2506:Autovalue substing
2492:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2445:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2382:Please comment on
2368:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2313:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2202:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2168:Whatamidoing (WMF)
2127:Whatamidoing (WMF)
1996:Whatamidoing (WMF)
1955:Whatamidoing (WMF)
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1315:Whatamidoing (WMF)
1294:Whatamidoing (WMF)
1282:<translate: -->
1153:Whatamidoing (WMF)
1107:Whatamidoing (WMF)
1056:Whatamidoing (WMF)
1023:Whatamidoing (WMF)
936:Whatamidoing (WMF)
853:Whatamidoing (WMF)
831:Re:Hackey solution
786:Whatamidoing (WMF)
765:Whatamidoing (WMF)
658:Whatamidoing (WMF)
572:Whatamidoing (WMF)
497:Whatamidoing (WMF)
444:Whatamidoing (WMF)
363:Whatamidoing (WMF)
289:Whatamidoing (WMF)
142:Old discussions:
79:Whatamidoing (WMF)
45:06:23, 20 May 2015
28:Whatamidoing (WMF)
4203:I was looking at
3871:
3781:User:Elitre (WMF)
3753:
3663:Ich glaube, dass
3192:. "Edit" was in
3004:
2943:
2606:To you and yours
2347:French Connection
1445:Accidental revert
1080:User:Dank/Scripts
905:
904:
644:Jdforrester (WMF)
567:via Beta Features
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3961:equipe de edição
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2853:Just noticed....
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2826:citation needed
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2739:Please explain.
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2545:citation needed
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2536:That is due to
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2415:John Vandenberg
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2009:then, I guess.
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1267:Emily Blackwell
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3330:Re: Invitation
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2566:Valuable tools
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1275:Frances Harper
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1256:John Broughton
1242:John Broughton
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2997:Contributions
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2681:Please go to
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2114:their advice.
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1875:Thanks, James
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1831:Visual editor
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4375:Anthonyhcole
4368:
4349:Anthonyhcole
4342:
4202:
4199:Template:sfn
4122:
4083:
4005:
3989:
3985:
3979:estes termos
3971:
3970:
3957:
3952:VisualEditor
3917:
3852:Elitre (WMF)
3838:Luizpuodzius
3832:translatable
3831:
3829:
3823:
3821:
3808:Elitre (WMF)
3800:Luizpuodzius
3779:Thank you!
3767:Luizpuodzius
3751:
3741:
3738:
3735:
3709:
3676:
3671:
3665:
3646:
3618:push to talk
3593:push to talk
3589:push to talk
3571:
3550:User:Krenair
3546:User:Krinkle
3535:push to talk
3527:
3397:push to talk
3341:push to talk
3333:
3249:
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3205:
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2829:
2789:
2772:WhatamIdoing
2767:
2760:edit history
2742:
2723:push to talk
2702:
2666:push to talk
2637:push to talk
2633:
2615:
2605:
2600:
2587:
2583:
2579:
2574:
2569:
2538:Template:Bug
2509:
2469:phrasal verb
2465:phrasal noun
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1377:
1332:
1263:Dorothea Dix
1238:
1235:
1202:
1198:
1167:push to talk
1143:push to talk
1125:push to talk
1089:push to talk
1070:push to talk
1052:Template:Bug
1042:push to talk
1037:this snippet
997:push to talk
986:
911:
888:
881:
834:
819:
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629:
617:
414:
410:
393:
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306:
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198:
184:Since then:
183:
171:
158:
154:
141:
98:→Archive #2
53:→Archive #2
22:old revision
19:
18:
4142:Thank you,
4088:Clem Rutter
3498:Platonykiss
3480:Platonykiss
3445:Platonykiss
3416:Platonykiss
2806:Thank you,
2601:Merry Merry
2570:You wrote:
2550:template.
2123:disapproval
1200:numbering.
980:Task T69784
974:Phabricator
972:Tracked in
951:S Philbrick
919:S Philbrick
557:User:Risker
386:ex cathedra
20:This is an
4396:Archive #2
4179:WP:SUMMARY
3836:". Thanks
2617:FWiW Bzuk
2590:j⚛e decker
2477:Teratornis
2353:Alanez5011
2334:Alanez5011
2332:alanez5011
2164:thanks log
1788:Margin1522
1755:Margin1522
1684:Margin1522
1506:loupgarous
1491:loupgarous
737:strike out
285:this draft
4343:Hi What.
4183:GermanJoe
4144:GermanJoe
4129:GermanJoe
4080:Real life
4047:GermanJoe
4012:GermanJoe
3696:Weissbier
3650:Weissbier
3574:Weissbier
2957:currently
2914:Fram's TP
2837:Thanks!
2433:this list
2060:voluntary
1907:this edit
1903:Doc James
1882:WP:ACCESS
1851:Doc James
1818:Red Fiona
1635:Red Fiona
1417:Thank you
1410:Finally,
1099:WP:MEDMOS
1050:It's now
838:TomStar81
802:The Anome
782:The Anome
691:The Anome
611:The Anome
539:The Anome
483:The Anome
432:speakers.
419:The Anome
397:GSM 03.38
359:The Anome
334:The Anome
315:The Anome
274:The Anome
259:The Anome
4383:contribs
4357:contribs
4319:contribs
4309:Thanks.
4283:contribs
4247:contribs
4223:contribs
3014:Heads up
2961:this one
2955:If Fram
2896:קיפודנחש
2514:work? --
2065:MastCell
2031:MastCell
1861:contribs
1236:Thanks.
948:Thanks--
411:branding
215:start a
192:software
89:contribs
38:contribs
4323:library
4287:library
4251:library
4227:library
3941:Convite
3834:list...
3826:list...
3381:first.
2873:⇧ Shift
2768:illegal
2408:Hi, at
2306:reflist
2299:|30em}}
2297:reflist
2284:Protonk
2269:Protonk
2119:support
1710:James F
1084:WP:TROP
757:Example
638:posting
563:test it
553:James F
479:WP:BOLD
4150:first.
4008:Otto I
3873:Trizek
3868:Elitre
3804:Trizek
3755:Trizek
3752:Best,
3675:ist.
3337:WP:TFA
3311:Begoon
3271:Begoon
3164:Begoon
3106:Begoon
3073:Begoon
3039:Begoon
3025:Begoon
2983:Occult
2922:Occult
2691:WP:SUL
2646:Ouch,
2473:log in
2327:Hello.
2087:(UTC)"
2026:person
1609:almost
1605:almost
1451:second
1103:WP:WTW
956:(Talk)
924:(Talk)
778:Risker
730:Risker
715:Risker
695:Risker
4387:email
4361:email
3904:Klaas
2808:Y-M D
2796:Y-M D
2703:under
2531:Stryn
2516:Stryn
2391:Alsee
2141:force
1865:email
1847:Best
1732:and
1679:name=
619:time.
415:first
354:time.
272:Yes,
247:right
4438:talk
4429:Done
4414:(♫♫)
4379:talk
4373:. --
4353:talk
4345:This
4315:talk
4301:talk
4279:talk
4265:talk
4243:talk
4219:talk
4187:talk
4164:talk
4156:John
4133:talk
4109:talk
4093:talk
4066:talk
4051:talk
4032:talk
4016:talk
3927:talk
3918:five
3906:|Z4␟
3887:talk
3856:talk
3842:talk
3812:talk
3789:talk
3771:talk
3718:talk
3710:viel
3700:talk
3685:talk
3677:Crap
3672:Mist
3666:crap
3654:talk
3632:talk
3608:talk
3578:talk
3558:talk
3530:here
3502:talk
3494:here
3484:talk
3449:talk
3434:talk
3420:talk
3387:talk
3295:talk
3257:talk
3228:and
3140:talk
3090:talk
3060:talk
2993:Talk
2986:Zone
2969:talk
2932:Talk
2925:Zone
2904:talk
2885:talk
2857:hi.
2843:talk
2816:talk
2800:talk
2776:talk
2749:talk
2711:talk
2676:Dank
2656:talk
2648:Dank
2621:talk
2556:talk
2520:talk
2512:that
2496:talk
2481:talk
2449:talk
2395:talk
2372:talk
2357:talk
2338:talk
2317:talk
2273:talk
2264:here
2249:talk
2245:Fram
2241:here
2206:talk
2191:talk
2187:Fram
2172:talk
2162:The
2150:talk
2146:Fram
2131:talk
2108:only
2097:talk
2093:Fram
2089:here
2080:that
2074:WMF.
2050:talk
2046:Fram
2015:talk
2011:Fram
2000:talk
1985:talk
1981:Fram
1959:talk
1943:talk
1939:Fram
1916:talk
1894:talk
1888:be.
1857:talk
1822:talk
1792:talk
1777:talk
1759:talk
1718:talk
1688:talk
1639:talk
1617:talk
1598:here
1528:talk
1495:talk
1474:talk
1456:Neil
1425:talk
1398:(♫♫)
1364:talk
1353:John
1344:(♫♫)
1319:talk
1307:John
1298:talk
1288:and
1265:and
1246:(♫♫)
1157:talk
1111:talk
1060:talk
1027:talk
1008:Dank
940:talk
896:talk
857:talk
842:Talk
790:talk
769:talk
719:talk
699:talk
687:here
683:here
662:talk
648:talk
576:talk
543:talk
501:talk
487:talk
448:talk
423:talk
367:talk
350:;-)
338:talk
319:talk
293:talk
263:talk
131:diff
125:) |
123:diff
111:diff
85:talk
34:talk
4389:)
4363:)
4321:-
4285:-
4249:-
4225:-
4208:sfn
3994:•
3990:•
3910::
3568:???
3212::
3206:dis
3037:Hi
3001:Log
2963:).
2940:Log
2894:Hi
2869:Alt
2790:Hi,
2687:mw:
2674:Hi
2529:Hi
2424:Hi
2282:Hi
1769:PHP
1751:Lua
1577:Pam
1548:Pam
1522:.
1504:Hi
1351:Hi
1273:or
1239:--
1006:Hi
989:VPT
811:Pam
307:the
287:?
257:--
172:not
43:at
4440:)
4385:·
4381:·
4359:·
4355:·
4339:VE
4325:)
4317:-
4303:)
4289:)
4281:-
4267:)
4253:)
4245:-
4229:)
4221:-
4211:}}
4205:{{
4189:)
4166:)
4135:)
4111:)
4068:)
4053:)
4034:)
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