765:
activities, and the casual reader cannot be expected to know the importance of the AGP beyond its term as a WC event. I am very well aware of the rich heritage of the AGP, which stretched way prior to its status as a WC event. But my point is that to tack his easy victory in what is still a very minor race, with a low-quality field in world motor racing terms, into the tiny lead paragraph of an F1 world champion is not well-balanced. The best thing might be to develop a better lead paragraph (or 2 or 3) and include it in that. The small portion of the article body which I edited had been pretty badly written, and if the rest of it is written to the same standard, the whole thing could do with a revamp and expansion. As you know, Jones was/is easily the highest-profile Aussie driver ever, as well as the most successful, so he should have the article he deserves. The AGP aspect, including its importance to him because of his father's exploits, should be well covered within that. That one sentence as it stood did not explain its wider significance as something other than a very minor non-Champ event, something which has to be done in order for it to warrant its inclusion in the lead, in my opinion. I'd also think about moving it to
811:, with particular reference to Jones, in this article? Instead of thrashing around here arguing about something we effectively agree on, why don't we work on the article? You have ignored all talk of actually improving the article in favour of waving your flag. All I want to see is this point explained properly rather than have one sentence bunged in there in an unhelpful place, where it doesn't do either Jones or the race any justice. On your last point, no, technical regulations do not decide an event's lustre. As far as international recognition goes, however, it is undoubtedly the quality of the field that determines how important an event is, and half the field in this race were not notable enough even to have their own articles here.
282:
125:
353:
803:
internationally they are not as well known to the casual motor racing fan as Jones is. Although the fact is not to your taste, it's still a fact that F1 is the world's most popular series, and its drivers are the world's best known. I did not dismiss anyone's reputation, nor did I suggest that Brock's international reputation is insignificant. Furthermore, I am not denying that the AGP has always been one of the most important races in
Australia for a very long time, if not
484:
463:
236:
139:
95:
576:
552:
64:
149:
260:
638:
746:
the history between the Jones and
Brabham families. But more than just the personal, there is also from an Australian viewpoint, because the Australian Grand Priux is a very old race with cultural significance well beyond its history as a Formula 1 race. The race has grown and evolved along with Australia itself, parralleling the evolution of the country. The Formula 1 world championship represents just 33% of the races history.
118:
650:
322:
1038:
301:
343:
586:
703:
within the article body, or even much further down in the lead, but it doesn't belong that high up in the article of someone who did far more important things than that. Plus, that sentence was just thrown in there by an anon editor who was doing similar things to several articles, and not particularly well in any of them.
972:
The other thing supporting about him not being at Indy would have been he was well and truly into his Shadow drive and wasn't even doing Can Am in the States in parallel (until later in the year after he won in
Austria and Don Nicholls thought it would be great promotion for him to do a couple of Can
787:
Additionally, the 1980 Australian Grand Prix was far from an insignificant event. It was the biggest open wheel race held in
Australia for seven/eight years, maybe even as far back as the 1969 Tasman Series. It was also the first time Touring cars had been a support category for anything in about the
764:
Well you don't have to tell me anything about non-Championship races, or that there's more to life than F1 - no-one has started more non-Championship race articles than I have, in case you weren't aware. The viewpoint I am taking is a general one, based on the fact that Jones is best known for his F1
702:
Jones is notable for being a
Formula One driver, not for being an Australian, and this race was really very unimportant in terms of his career. To put it in the very first paragraph, as if it was the most important thing the guy ever did, is a bit ridiculous. It'd be fine to make a bigger deal of it
745:
Yeah, this is exactly what I mean, its a very blinkered view point. From a
Formula One viewpoint it was not a significant result. But only from a Formula 1 viewpoint. Jones himself rates it very highly, because if the connection with his father Stan, who also won the Australian Grand Prix and also
783:
Was is easily the highest-profile Aussie driver ever is an inaccurate statement, and somewhat surprising to hear from someone with your credentials. Leaving aside Jack
Brabham for a moment, to dismiss the reputation of Peter Brock is to suggest that Richard Petty and the littany of Scandinavian
802:
What's annoying me most right now is that I didn't think of Jack
Brabham - my mistake. I've even met the guy, which makes it even more annoying. The others? You'll be aware that Australia is not the only country in the world, and accomplished and well-known as Brock etc undoubtedly are/were,
932:
describe his decision to do a season of USAC racing in 1977 followed by a description of him attempting to qualify for a USAC race but withdrawing from the race because he wasn't fast enough. It doesn't identify the race, but reading it, it sounds like this was his
968:
I seem to recall an
Interview in 1978 where he basically said he had a go (i.e. practised) but thought it so unsafe that he didn't even want to Qualify let alone Race. I might be biased but I don't believe it was a lack of speed just did not want a bar of it!
784:
rallyists have achieved nothing. I can assure when Brock is invited as guest of honour to the
Goodwood Historic festival that his international reputation is not insignificant. How many race drivers do you think have nationally televised state funerals?
686:
Why shouldn't the Australian GP line be in the lead? Why does being a Formula 1 driver supersede being Australian? It is a significant detail in the context of Australia even of it is not a significant detail in the context of Formula 1.
749:
Formula 1 was a part of the history of the Indy 500, but the history of that race is significantly richer than its relatively small F1 portion, the same is true of the Australian Grand Prix. There is more to the world than F1 you know.
788:
same amount of time. It was the first open wheel race to have its event programme sold nationally in neswagents, unheard of at the time even for touring cars. Technical regulations do not decide an events lustre. --
1164:
1159:
1099:
960:
I wouldn't trust any of the Sources that quote DNQ or DNS for Ontario. Alan Brown states "AP" - Also Practiced and does not list him as even trying to Qualify.
1023:
1119:
731:
Plus, I see that the race wasn't even a Formula One race, but a kind of Formula Libre event with one other F1 car. It's just not relevant enough for the lead.
250:
445:
31:) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
534:
1124:
43:
226:
980:
897:
834:
820:
797:
778:
759:
740:
726:
712:
954:
663:
562:
1114:
807:
most. As far as national significance is concerned, no-one is implying that the race is not worthy in national terms. So why isn't it explained
1080:
853:
This article is seriously lacking in citations. As Jones is a former World Drivers' Champion, there should be ample reliable sources to cite.
717:
On edit: The lead is very small - if it were expanded, then this detail could be included, but not if the lead is going to remain that short.
1169:
1139:
435:
1149:
1094:
524:
48:
1109:
245:
216:
105:
124:
1134:
1033:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
1144:
603:, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Knowledge's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
1174:
1154:
1129:
604:
391:
23:
1024:
https://web.archive.org/web/20131206104938/http://richardsf1.com/category/exclusive-interviews/alan-jones-exclusive-interviews/
398:
500:
377:
825:
I've added a preliminary note about the AGP into what will hopefully become an extended lead section. More work to be done.
608:
117:
992:
909:
1104:
202:
862:
1027:
917:
885:
612:
988:
905:
873:
381:
367:
327:
1015:
491:
468:
696:
998:
599:
557:
178:
165:
100:
1075:
890:
Does anyone have a Reference for the "DNQ" at Indy in 1977? I cannot find any evidence of this anywhere.
75:
1050:
If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
1014:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
1007:
766:
42:. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
499:
on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
1066:
984:
901:
830:
816:
774:
736:
722:
708:
63:
46:.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see
32:
291:
1051:
1011:
963:
942:
928:, which list drivers who failed to qualify. In addition, pages 58-59 of Jones' autobiography
81:
1058:
976:
950:
937:
USAC race - that and the decision to withdraw points to it being the DNS at Ontario (which
893:
945:). There's no mention of him trying again at Indy (and I'd expect that to get a mention).
8:
858:
793:
755:
692:
881:
826:
812:
770:
732:
718:
704:
407:
358:
174:
1057:
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
867:
848:
1028:
http://richardsf1.com/category/exclusive-interviews/alan-jones-exclusive-interviews/
591:
281:
154:
946:
39:
925:
854:
789:
751:
688:
208:
376:, including drivers, teams and constructors, events and history. Feel free to
1088:
877:
655:
352:
681:
373:
496:
1045:
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
272:
170:
483:
462:
235:
138:
94:
637:
611:. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
575:
551:
259:
211:
in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
207:
This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
38:
from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
872:
I see Jones had a DNS at Onterio & a DNQ at Indy in the
372:, an attempt to improve and standardize articles related to
964:
http://www.oldracingcars.com/results/result.php?RaceID=Y77A
342:
321:
1018:
for additional information. I made the following changes:
1165:
Unknown-importance biography (sports and games) articles
924:
x DNS/DNQ in 1977 (i.e. not 2) and he is not listed at
769:
to distance him from solely being associated with F1.
645:
581:
495:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
348:
144:
916:I also could not find any sources to support this.
926:racing-reference.info's 1977 Indianapolis 500 page
876:. Do we have any additional information on this?--
1160:Start-Class biography (sports and games) articles
1100:C-Class articles with conflicting quality ratings
1086:
169:, which aims to improve Knowledge's coverage of
380:and help with any of the tasks or consult the
177:. If you would like to participate, visit the
1120:Top-importance Australian motorsport articles
61:
1125:WikiProject Australian motorsport articles
1006:I have just modified one external link on
1115:C-Class Australian motorsport articles
1087:
1170:Sports and games work group articles
1140:High-importance Formula One articles
597:This article is within the scope of
489:This article is within the scope of
57:
15:
1150:High-importance motorsport articles
1095:Biography articles of living people
80:It is of interest to the following
13:
1110:High-importance Australia articles
636:
280:
267:Need help improving this article?
258:
234:
209:project-independent quality rating
14:
1186:
1010:. Please take a moment to review
874:1977 USAC Championship Car season
416:Knowledge:WikiProject Formula One
246:WikiProject Australian motorsport
1135:Start-Class Formula One articles
1036:
648:
584:
574:
550:
509:Knowledge:WikiProject Motorsport
482:
461:
419:Template:WikiProject Formula One
351:
341:
320:
299:
147:
137:
123:
116:
93:
62:
21:This article must adhere to the
1145:Start-Class motorsport articles
664:the sports and games work group
621:Knowledge:WikiProject Biography
529:This article has been rated as
512:Template:WikiProject Motorsport
440:This article has been rated as
221:This article has been rated as
187:Knowledge:WikiProject Australia
1175:WikiProject Biography articles
1155:Start-Class biography articles
1130:WikiProject Australia articles
624:Template:WikiProject Biography
295:can be contacted via email to
190:Template:WikiProject Australia
1:
661:This article is supported by
503:and see a list of open tasks.
307:for non-editorial assistance.
273:National Library of Australia
243:This article is supported by
24:biographies of living persons
1081:20:52, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
993:12:42, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
955:09:47, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
910:18:01, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
886:09:18, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
609:contribute to the discussion
7:
835:11:26, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
821:11:10, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
798:07:41, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
779:00:10, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
760:23:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
741:22:58, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
727:22:50, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
713:22:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
697:22:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
292:Wikimedia Australia chapter
36:must be removed immediately
10:
1191:
1105:C-Class Australia articles
1008:Alan Jones (racing driver)
1003:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
920:shows Jones as having one
863:02:18, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
767:Alan Jones (racing driver)
535:project's importance scale
446:project's importance scale
227:project's importance scale
161:Alan Jones (racing driver)
644:
569:
528:
477:
439:
384:for further information.
364:This article is part of
336:
300:
288:
266:
242:
220:
206:
132:
88:
175:Australia-related topics
999:External links modified
368:WikiProject Formula One
163:is within the scope of
641:
492:WikiProject Motorsport
285:
263:
239:
70:This article is rated
943:racing-reference.info
640:
600:WikiProject Biography
284:
262:
238:
166:WikiProject Australia
422:Formula One articles
515:motorsport articles
1069:InternetArchiveBot
642:
627:biography articles
408:Portal:Formula One
359:Formula One portal
286:
264:
240:
193:Australia articles
76:content assessment
995:
979:comment added by
918:champcarstats.com
912:
896:comment added by
679:
678:
675:
674:
671:
670:
545:
544:
541:
540:
456:
455:
452:
451:
315:
314:
311:
310:
56:
55:
1182:
1079:
1070:
1043:
1040:
1039:
974:
930:Driving Ambition
891:
658:
653:
652:
651:
629:
628:
625:
622:
619:
605:join the project
594:
592:Biography portal
589:
588:
587:
578:
571:
570:
565:
563:Sports and Games
554:
547:
546:
517:
516:
513:
510:
507:
486:
479:
478:
473:
465:
458:
457:
424:
423:
420:
417:
414:
378:join the project
361:
356:
355:
345:
338:
337:
332:
324:
317:
316:
306:
305:wikimedia.org.au
304:
303:
302:
195:
194:
191:
188:
185:
157:
155:Australia portal
152:
151:
150:
141:
134:
133:
128:
127:
126:
121:
120:
119:
114:
111:
108:
97:
90:
89:
73:
67:
66:
58:
44:this noticeboard
16:
1190:
1189:
1185:
1184:
1183:
1181:
1180:
1179:
1085:
1084:
1073:
1068:
1041:
1037:
1016:this simple FaQ
1001:
870:
851:
684:
654:
649:
647:
626:
623:
620:
617:
616:
590:
585:
583:
560:
531:High-importance
514:
511:
508:
505:
504:
472:High‑importance
471:
442:High-importance
421:
418:
415:
412:
411:
357:
350:
331:High‑importance
330:
298:
296:
269:Ask a Librarian
223:High-importance
192:
189:
186:
183:
182:
153:
148:
146:
122:
115:
113:High‑importance
112:
109:
103:
74:on Knowledge's
71:
12:
11:
5:
1188:
1178:
1177:
1172:
1167:
1162:
1157:
1152:
1147:
1142:
1137:
1132:
1127:
1122:
1117:
1112:
1107:
1102:
1097:
1063:
1062:
1055:
1031:
1030:
1022:Added archive
1000:
997:
958:
957:
869:
866:
850:
847:
846:
845:
844:
843:
842:
841:
840:
839:
838:
837:
823:
785:
747:
729:
715:
683:
680:
677:
676:
673:
672:
669:
668:
660:
659:
643:
633:
632:
630:
596:
595:
579:
567:
566:
555:
543:
542:
539:
538:
527:
521:
520:
518:
501:the discussion
487:
475:
474:
466:
454:
453:
450:
449:
438:
432:
431:
429:
428:
427:
426:
425:
406:Help out with
403:
395:
363:
362:
346:
334:
333:
325:
313:
312:
309:
308:
287:
277:
276:
265:
255:
254:
251:Top-importance
241:
231:
230:
219:
213:
212:
205:
199:
198:
196:
159:
158:
142:
130:
129:
98:
86:
85:
79:
68:
54:
53:
49:this help page
33:poorly sourced
19:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1187:
1176:
1173:
1171:
1168:
1166:
1163:
1161:
1158:
1156:
1153:
1151:
1148:
1146:
1143:
1141:
1138:
1136:
1133:
1131:
1128:
1126:
1123:
1121:
1118:
1116:
1113:
1111:
1108:
1106:
1103:
1101:
1098:
1096:
1093:
1092:
1090:
1083:
1082:
1077:
1072:
1071:
1060:
1056:
1053:
1049:
1048:
1047:
1046:
1034:
1029:
1025:
1021:
1020:
1019:
1017:
1013:
1009:
1004:
996:
994:
990:
986:
982:
978:
973:Am rounds).
970:
966:
965:
961:
956:
952:
948:
944:
941:supported by
940:
936:
931:
927:
923:
919:
915:
914:
913:
911:
907:
903:
899:
895:
888:
887:
883:
879:
875:
865:
864:
860:
856:
836:
832:
828:
827:Bretonbanquet
824:
822:
818:
814:
813:Bretonbanquet
810:
806:
801:
800:
799:
795:
791:
786:
782:
781:
780:
776:
772:
771:Bretonbanquet
768:
763:
762:
761:
757:
753:
748:
744:
743:
742:
738:
734:
733:Bretonbanquet
730:
728:
724:
720:
719:Bretonbanquet
716:
714:
710:
706:
705:Bretonbanquet
701:
700:
699:
698:
694:
690:
666:
665:
657:
656:Sports portal
646:
639:
635:
634:
631:
614:
613:documentation
610:
606:
602:
601:
593:
582:
580:
577:
573:
572:
568:
564:
559:
556:
553:
549:
548:
536:
532:
526:
523:
522:
519:
502:
498:
494:
493:
488:
485:
481:
480:
476:
470:
467:
464:
460:
459:
447:
443:
437:
434:
433:
430:
410:
409:
404:
402:
400:
396:
394:
393:
388:
387:
386:
385:
383:
379:
375:
371:
370:
369:
360:
354:
349:
347:
344:
340:
339:
335:
329:
326:
323:
319:
318:
294:
293:
283:
279:
278:
274:
270:
261:
257:
256:
252:
249:(assessed as
248:
247:
237:
233:
232:
228:
224:
218:
215:
214:
210:
204:
201:
200:
197:
180:
176:
172:
168:
167:
162:
156:
145:
143:
140:
136:
135:
131:
107:
102:
99:
96:
92:
91:
87:
83:
77:
69:
65:
60:
59:
51:
50:
45:
41:
37:
34:
30:
26:
25:
20:
18:
17:
1067:
1064:
1044:
1035:
1032:
1005:
1002:
975:— Preceding
971:
967:
962:
959:
938:
934:
929:
921:
892:— Preceding
889:
871:
852:
808:
804:
685:
662:
598:
530:
490:
441:
405:
397:
389:
382:project page
366:
365:
289:
268:
244:
222:
179:project page
164:
160:
82:WikiProjects
47:
35:
28:
22:
981:Dora Domino
898:Dora Domino
413:Formula One
401:the project
374:Formula One
328:Formula One
72:Start-class
1089:Categories
1076:Report bug
947:DH85868993
506:Motorsport
497:Motorsport
469:Motorsport
106:Motorsport
1059:this tool
1052:this tool
868:Indy cars
855:Bahnfrend
849:Citations
790:Falcadore
752:Falcadore
689:Falcadore
618:Biography
558:Biography
392:task list
390:View the
184:Australia
171:Australia
101:Australia
40:libellous
1065:Cheers.—
989:contribs
977:unsigned
906:contribs
894:unsigned
878:Kpaspery
1012:my edit
533:on the
444:on the
399:Discuss
271:at the
225:on the
110:C‑class
78:scale.
935:first
809:fully
985:talk
951:talk
902:talk
882:talk
859:talk
831:talk
817:talk
794:talk
775:talk
756:talk
737:talk
723:talk
709:talk
693:talk
607:and
525:High
436:High
297:help
290:The
217:High
173:and
1026:to
805:the
682:AGP
29:BLP
1091::
991:)
987:•
953:)
939:is
908:)
904:•
884:)
861:)
833:)
819:)
796:)
777:)
758:)
750:--
739:)
725:)
711:)
695:)
687:--
561::
253:).
104::
1078:)
1074:(
1061:.
1054:.
1042:Y
983:(
949:(
922:1
900:(
880:(
857:(
829:(
815:(
792:(
773:(
754:(
735:(
721:(
707:(
691:(
667:.
615:.
537:.
448:.
275:.
229:.
203:C
181:.
84::
52:.
27:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
.svg){kind=logo}
