Talk:Cornish nationalism

592: 571: 472: 451: 2264:, even more so than 9/11 theories, which at least see the latter happening. The fact that no one serious has really looked into the claim is evidence of its fringe implausibility, not evidence that it's an open question at all. Anyway, it's not relevant to the point at hand really, although it might have some import in any wider discussion about how such theories are presented on WP. As I say, I think they should be noted as being espoused by some campaigners but I'm not sure there should be a page devoted to presenting the argument per se, which is what 2092:

these pages popped up on my watchlist this morning. Personally, I'd argue for the deletion of the Constitutional status page, which is even more chock-full of meandering original research and debate and anyway covers much of the same ground as this one. We need one article, which documents the history and arguments of Cornish nationalism, not two pages, both of which attempt to actually have that argument. Plus it's quite telling that when you type "Constitutional status .." into the search box here, the only two results you get are Kosovo and Cornwall.

1631:

are wellcome to correct it, but that is irrellevant to this discussion. The point I am making is that the article itself states that Cornwall is not in England; '(Cornwall has a cuture which is) seperate from that of England'. This should read, '(Cornwall has a cuture which is) seperate from that of the rest of England'. Therefore the article contains incorrect information and is misleading to readers. I do believe Knowledge was designed to be a reliable and neutral source, but with articles like this, I don't believe it is even close to that.

2493:

and is not one that is accepted by anyone mainstream writing on British history or constitutional law – I'm not offering my own opinion on whether it's a reasonable belief or not. It's not me expressing a point of view, let alone a non-neutral one, but a reflection of reality, which has significance for how WP pages should be addressing the topic, per site policies on reliable sources and (actual) neutral point of view. That said, it is indeed less a direct concern for this page and more one, as noted, for

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in some detail the varied things that different Cornish nationalists believe, including the duchy-not-county claim (which of course is but one thing among those, and probably a minority belief even among nationalists). The issue I have is whether we treat fringe arguments as worthy of note in themselves and whether we have pages devoted to discussing them in themselves and whether they might be correct or incorrect. Balance does not mean treating everything as equal, as NPOV policy, at

1872:. You don't get to keep an incorrect version just because you like it. So far you have failed to supply an actual argument in support of your position. My reasons for retaining the new lead (it was someone else who first amended it) are that given it is a political article the current political status of the county needs to be placed prominently in the lead and not swept under the carpet with vague terms. The status is clearly that Cornwall is a county in England 272: 251: 2566:(e/c) It was an unfortunate comparison, because it does damage to your claim to a NPOV. You certainly don't need to apologise, it's your argument and that's fine. To be clear, because I don't think you understand my position – I'm not offering my opinion on the merits of the belief that Cornwall is not a county, and at no stage did I claim or suggest there was any mainstream acceptance of that view. Without making a judgement on what people may or may not 282: 1562:— This article should be renamed "Cornish nationalism". This is because the article's focus is not just the autonomy/devolution movement in Cornwall - it also deals with culture, identity, ethnicity, and constitutional issues in Cornwall, all of which can come under the umbrella term of "Cornish nationalism". This would also make it in line with articles for other nationalisms in Europe, e.g. Breton, Welsh, Catalan etc. -- 220: 2042:

regard that statement as a "point of view" or politicising the issue would be nonsensical by any rational standard. As for the page as a whole, it's obviously a notable topic, but it's a real mess which seems more interested in arguing the toss over said bizarre debate as to whether Cornwall "is" part of England or not, rather than actually offering any history or details about Cornish nationalism.

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there or even discusses the issue at all (hence why I think the "Constitutional status .." article is a candidate for deletion – the fact that a small minority even of the nationalist movement do hold that view can be noted here, as their view, not as a notable topic in its own right). Anyway, I'm fine the proposed opening, which at least tells us a bit more than the current one.

1125:, it's becoming a habit). Recent additions to this article are unsourced and some are possibly libelous (the Carrick District Council 'quote' for example). I request that the originator engage here and agree that any unsourced information will be removed to a sandbox until it can be verified. Otherwise, I suggest that we ask for admin involvement, and soon. 2138:

movement about Cornwall is going to be based in Cornwall. The view of the movement is the most important fact about it and yet a concise description is lacking in the lead sentence. This can be rectified by ending the sentence with "that views Cornwall as a distinct entity within the United Kingdom". As an added bonus the location is also implied.

1964:

it has stood is in no way apolitical. In particular, stating that Cornwall is "administered as part of England" implies some special status or that it is a situation that could potentially change. That Cornwall is a county in England is a fact not a point of view. Again if you think otherwise provide the reliable sources state your position.

1689:

the argument that it should not (and in some senses, arguably, is not) be so administered. The introduction to the article needs to set out a balanced summary of the position, which neither a bald reference to "Cornwall, England", nor an unexplained footnote to the stannary parliament (in any case, inappropriate in style per

2538:. That so clearly applies in the broader situation here, from its opening sentence onwards, that I'm slightly surprised this is an issue. Anyway, I don't see that it's helpful to say any more, especially in the absence of anyone providing the evidence requested of mainstream coverage or analysis of the substantive claims. 1600:

Cornwall is undeniably part of England (And I don't mean this in an offensive or nationalist way, it is simply an encyclopediac - I think thats how you spell it - fact) so can you not try to argue that it isn't. If you have any reasons for why this is unjust then please say, but stop changing it without giving reasons.

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I'm not sure if the topic of Cornish independence is worth a separate article. It's not really promoted or debated much in Cornwall; even Mebyon Kernow prefers to advocate autonomy instead. And it could fit in into this article, as it is related to advocating increased autonomy for Cornwall. The case

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specifically asked a question about it in Parliament and got a very non-committal answer, and at least two Cornish MPs have complained about the government's unwillingness to answer questions about it. A number of official bodies have looked into it recently due to the fact that it's at the very crux

2137:

There's another problem with the lead sentence as it stands. It does not give a description of what Cornish Nationalism is actually is about it simply states that it is based in Cornwall then launches into a convoluted explanation of Cornwall's location and political status. It is pretty clear that a

2041:

Either formulation is entirely and equally accurate. As for avoiding explicit mention of the fact that Cornwall is a county of England, a justification based on not upsetting a fringe minority, while having some value in a practical sense, is a pretty weak one overall. I agree with Eckerslike that to

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without promoting it or undermining it. The lead is apolitical because geographically it refers to Cornwall in relation to its location on the island of Great Britain, which is an apolitical entity. Politicising the lead by stating categorically what Cornwall "is" or "isn't" in terms of England would

1963:

You're starting to make a good case to have this article deleted. Knowledge is not about promoting minority (or any) views but presenting a factual account of a subject. If these facts "defeat the point of the article" then it shows up a problem with the article (or its intended purpose). The lead as

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This is not an article about the current political status of Cornwall, it is an article about an alternative view of the way Cornwall should be administered. To start the article by making uncompromising statements regarding its status is to defeat the point of the article. The county status is dealt

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Well yes and no. The article you site is a general handling of all the subjects, I was thinking about an article specific to the disputes with the Duchy of Cornwall. Nevertheless, there is a lot more material that could and should be added to the "duchy" parts of the article- they are the fundamental

2492:

The "no one takes it seriously" strictly applied to the George W Bush as lizard thesis, which in turn I was invoking as an extreme example for comparison. And sorry, but all I'm doing is pointing out that a theory posited by some nationalists is only found in internet forums and self-published books

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in doing that – but I don't think they deny that they administer one; the Kilbrandon commission is quite explicit in referring to Cornwall as a county in its own text, and one that has been "governed as part of England for a thousand years", and only suggested occasional use of the duchy terminology

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Yes, but there are guidelines we all have to follow. The more experienced users are indeed there to help, but they are also there to make sure things don't go astray. These aren't just rules for the sake of rules, they are there to keep this website encyclopedic and prevent any old information being

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Look, let's not get umpty about things. I found the Carrick Comment on Cornwall 24 a while back. I included it and then went back to check the source as the link was broken- Cornwall 24 have recently updated their site. I requested a reliable source for this comment. I received a reply to this and I

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I think that it is worth typing in the bit from the famous genetics book "The Blood of the Isles" on this issue. In it, the author says that the Celts may have never existed as a tribe. The Celtic language group was identified, and some people then got the idea that these people must have all been

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Cornwall make it as an independant state, I would probably say yes, but it wouldn't necessarily be advisable. If Cornwall were to maintain membership of the EU then it would have access to much more financial support and the poorest regions thing would act in its favour here (just look at Eire as a

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There is an undeniable lack of neutrality in this article. One might expect this given the emotional nature of the subject and the hawkish uber-vigilant editors associated with its promotion (Reversions made within milliseconds). However, this is an encyclopedia, not a propaganda mouthpiece, and as

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I feel that your persistence in writing off the duchy / county debate as a fringe argument, "a minority belief even among nationalists", and "no-one takes it seriously anyway" is, apart from being factually bereft, taking something other than a neutral point of view. Good job it's a side issue here

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To warrant a standalone article, topics have to be notable by our policy standards. It's genuinely not clear that that arbitration case is, in terms of it being a landmark legal case that changed the law or whatever. As for nationalism, I'm wholly in favour of having this page and having it explain

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I have amended BritishWatcher's wording, which was as provocative and unhelpful as the earlier unnecessary reference to the stannary parliament. The fact is that Cornwall has been administered as part of England for centuries (the precise date is arguable); but this article specifically relates to

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It is not inappropriate at all, it in very appropriate actually. The whole point of the article is that some Cornish nationalists believe Cornwall is a seperate nation to England, as oppossed to the well known fact that it is part of England. As for your claim that someone has mispelled a word, you

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It is completely inappropriate to insist on "Cornwall, England" on this article. And, as this has been reverted several times, it must be obvious that it is against consensus. I also reverted a one word edit that had been misspelled. Poor spelling is unencyclopaedic and may be considered vandalism.

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I don't understand why everyone assumes these people are talking about "race"/genetics. Celtic identity (infact, cultural identity in general) is not about those irrelevent factors, it's about language and culture. It's almost as if people are wilfully misinterprating Celtic nationalism and related

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People tend to forget that before the British government started slapping extra taxes onto the tin miners, halting our china clay production and before the Duke decided he'd use all of our money externaly, we we're one of the richest places on earth. If we were given greater control of our nation

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so Cornish identity is unlikely to pass muster. Cornish independence is a topic with enough history and established sources to merit a good article, it has the norman time period, then 4 separate invasions of 'England' (these were a while back) the issues in the 1700's, the issues in the and some

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I think you are now starting to take a POV tone. How can one article out of the millions here give it "too much prominence"? There are extreme views on either side, but no-one disputes that Cornwall is administered as a county of England. The argument which serious groups have is the extent to

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That case is cited in exactly the way I'm talking about and probably given far too much prominence here on WP (and the page itself was written incredibly misleadingly until a year or so ago) – I know of no serious legal analysis that gives it the import some claim it has. As for some of the other

2070:

It's always a little dangerous to describe a position as "nonsensical" and "bizarre" when, in fact, experience shows that some editors find it anything but nonsensical or bizarre. Clearly, this article is and always has been something of a battleground between those who are fervent supporters of

2018:(e/c) There's no problem with having articles on Knowledge about minority views, providing those articles are not weighted towards or against those views. This isn't an article about Cornwall which states facts about Cornwall. It's an article explaining the Cornish nationalist view, stating facts 1356:

I have included an official description of the Duchy of Cornwall here, taken from the Duchy of Conrwall homepage, and referenced. I am sure that this cannot possibly be disputed- and in the spirit of fairness I feel that the "official" position on the Duhcy should be included in ANY discussion of

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on the point in response to those questions from Andrew George. I'm not disputing the murky nature of the tax affairs of the Duchy of Cornwall, but that's a genuinely separate point, even if it has put the spotlight on the estate, and one of even less relevance of course to Cornwall per se. I've

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debate about whether Cornwall is or is not currently a county of England. That's a separate point from whether it is culturally distinct or whether it ought to remain as a administrative county. No serious third-party authority or source suggests there is any genuine constitutional question mark

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Perhaps, but I don't think it's an unfair description. And to be clear, I'm not suggesting that Cornish nationalism is a bizarre or nonsensical idea (well, no less bizarre than any other kind of nationalism) just that any debate about Cornwall's actual, current status as a county is. Anyway both

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The beggining of this article treats Cornwall as if it is not part of England, using phrases such as 'seperate from that of England' or 'seperate from that of English people'. I tried changing this to 'seperate from that of the rest of England', which I think is perfectly reasonable and neutral.

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I have removed the references in the article to this curious work. With all due respect to the author of said book, any attempt to include this information would be outdated since the matter has been resolved (in 2014 - see minority status articles). Any indication to the contrary, or infact any

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on the subject, I'm merely saying the call for clarity is wider than you claim it is (wider than "some nationalists"). This is proven by the fact that MPs have asked questions in Parliament about it, regardless of the responses given to those questions. Mine was (and still is) actually a fairly

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Firstly, you're right, this is a side issue and I don't mean to be argumentative about it. But I am not talking about Cornwall actually being an independent duchy with Prince Charles as a head of state, or that Cornwall isn't really administered as a county. That and the county/duchy debate are

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Come on, it's not a murky area at all or a long-standing debate in any real sense. It's something that's occasionally put forward by a few amateur self-appointed "experts" on personal websites and forums. No serious legal authority attests that Cornwall might be an independent duchy with Prince

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a county because of its status as a duchy. It's a murky area which neither the Duchy nor the government have really explored, so it's not quite a fringe debate in the 'loony fringe' mould. It's doubtful that the issue ever will be fully satisfied because legislation does not apparently exist to

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I'll agree that describing the debate or any part of it as nonsensical or bizarre is pretty unhelpful. If it's accepted that the topic is notable and deserves an article, that article cannot then either rubbish one side of the debate or suggest that the debate is over. In my experience very few

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This talk page was becoming rather long, and many comments had not been signed. I have added {{unsigned}} to those comments which needed it, and have also archived all threads which did not shew any activity this year (2008). I have also added a "talk page header", which includes a link to the

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of dealing with the incredibly murky tax affairs of the Prince of Wales. So we're not just talking about a couple of hairy blokes in a pub in Redruth. If only it were as simple as that. You're right in that it hasn't been examined and dismissed – if you have found a judicial statement on the

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A lot of this article is confused because it covers too many topics. Cornish Nationalism, Cornish national identity, Cornish ethnicity, and Cornish Devolution are separate topics. While they do in some way overlap, i feel that including them together is creating an overly political article.

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I would put up this commentary right now if I had the book on me. As it happens, I can't even remember what the author's name is. Once I find the book, I'll find the relevant page references. Until then, just thought that I'd put it up here in case anyone has any strong objections.

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Cornish nationalism, and those who think the whole idea is patently ridiculous. Some of us try to mediate between those two positions - but I don't disagree about the article being "a real mess". What concerns me most of all is the overlap between this article and the article on

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a part of England. It is perverse and POV to start off an article about Cornish nationalism by stating baldly that Cornwall is in England - although personally I would have no objection to a statement that it is currently administered as part of England, which is obviously true.

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such due weight needs to be given in the article to opposition to Cornish nationalism within Cornwall, which polls would tend to indicate is the majority view, not least from the majority of people who consider themselves Englishmen and women living in the county of Cornwall.

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good example of how EU investment has been successful). Alternatively outside of the EU, given full control over its own taxation policy then I think Cornwall would probably do better than you think (think tax havens and the Isle of Mann). Do I think it'll ever happen? No

1673:". I have never seen a more obvious attempt on wikipedia to appease a separatist movement. Cornwall is part of England. This Cornish nationalism has a beef with that fact. To try and gloss over it by putting "In the United Kingdom" in the first sentence is silly. 3039:

Additionally this article is not taking into account the two sides of this whole issue. A considerable amount of effort is being put into finding a neutral standpoint, but this has not been achieved. Several parts of the article are also incorrect or outdated.

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never seen the results of a formal medical examination, analysis or statement that confirms George W Bush is a human being and not a lizard. That doesn't mean it's an open question, it means no one takes the suggestion seriously in the first place. This is real

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entries can sometimes be a contentious topic, especially those concerning geography. You don't have to agree with everything but there is no excuse for rudeness and these things are best solved through consensus building and compromise. For more information see

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article, which is about the self-government movement. A referenced, neutral, paragraph, which summarises the attitudes of the English towards the Cornish, and with notable quotes (such as William of Malmesbury), should in my view be included in the article on

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and a few other activists. I've never seen one (believe me I've looked while trying to make sense of some of the rubbish that's been dumped in pages here over the years) that even covers the substance of these "constitutional" claims, let alone endorses them.

2301:(note that it's no longer called Cornwall County Council unlike nearly every other county in England – even County Hall's name was changed so as to remove the word 'county') (and here's a Cornwall Councillor wishing the High Court would deal with the question 2153:

I agree that the opening sentence could be clarified, but I'm not keen on your formulation. Probably the key feature of Cornish nationalism is that Cornwall is seen as, or should become (depending on which strand of nationalism it is) a nation distinct from

1645:

Your proposal would be inaccurate. Since nationalists consider Cornwall to be legally a distinct entity from England, it is correct to say "from that of England". The article is not saying that Cornwall is separate, but that nationalists believe it to be.

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Cornish nationalism is an umbrella term that refers to a cultural, political and social movement based in Cornwall, the most southwestern part of the island of Great Britain, which has for centuries been administered as part of England, within the United

2026:

However, stating that Cornwall is administered as part of England is entirely neutral because it's a fact that neither "side" would dispute. It's administered as such like every other county, I don't see how that implies some kind of special status.

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Cornish nationalism is an umbrella term that refers to a cultural, political and social movement based in the county of Cornwall, the most southwestern part of England, which has for centuries been administered as part of England, within the United

1088:

This is an unacceptable way of describing something on wikipedia. I would of undone the whole edits but i dont want to be accused of trying to hide something or pushing a point of view. Id like to know what others feel about this matter. Thanks

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Serious question - do you guys actually think Cornwall could make it as an independent state? It's said in several places on the Wiki that it's one of the poorest regions of the UK, so how is cutting ties to England/Britain going to help?

2497:. I'd also happily recant my observation about lack of mainstream acceptance if anyone could provide me with actual evidence to the contrary. Show me a serious history book or analysis of constitutional law that makes the claims made by 684:

This is a misinterpretation of the article - self government wouldn't necessarily mean ceceding from the UK. Many Cornish would like to have more say in there own governance but wouldn't want to cut ties with the rest of the

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Cornish nationalism is an umbrella term that refers to a cultural, political and social movement that seeks the recognition of Cornwall - the south-westernmost part of the island of Great Britain - as a nation distinct from

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Cornish nationalists want to leave the UK, whereas all of them want to be considered distinct from England, and not a mere county within it. With that in mind, I'm happy with Ghmyrtle's wording of a proposed lead sentence.

1616:

Please check in a dictionary if you are unsure how a word is spelt, or just use a speillchucker. Please gain consensus here first (as has been requested on your talk page) before making controversial edits. Thank you.

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I do not accept there needs to be any balance at all when it comes to stating a fact that Cornwall is in England. However the change you have made is a reasonable one and worded well so i can support that. Thank you.

3218:) is stronger. There is a difference between "Cornishness" and advocating for more autonomy for Cornwall. Though the two are not completely unrelated, so they could fit into this article if it was better organised. 1934:

way. You have reverted that to a political definition, which I believe should specifically avoided. An article about a political belief written from the point of view of an opposing belief is unencyclopedic and

2158:. I'm sure there are some Cornish nationalists who want to be out of the UK altogether, but its relationship to the UK is, I think, a secondary issue compared to its relationship to England. My suggestion is: 922:

Welsh and Cornish (and Breton etc) are both versions of a former British Celtic language. They have diverged over time due to geographical isolation and other factors. Cornish is not "just a version of Welsh".

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but rather in culture, production (artefacts), territoriality and time. It seems that Cornwall exhibits these characteristics: Cornish people have a common original language and share some specific traditions

1053:

There is a problem with the Treaty of Bretigny here in relation to Conrnwall.Please see my talk page where I have pasted the original text and pointed out what is wrong- Any additions or suggestions welcome.

3054:

Totally agree. This article assumes there is some support within the general population of Cornwall for the nationalist agenda. However, time after time at the ballot box, in polls, and online, they are

2003:

The fact that Cornwall is the southwesternmost part of the island of Great Britain is a statement of geographical fact, with no political implications. That is precisely why that form of words is used.

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Fair point! Ynweth gwyr. My a wel pandra ty a lever. I'll follow Deca's advice and have a good look at the article and my material, sandbox the paragraphs to add and we can go from there. How about that?

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I propose that this page is split into several articles. so I would create some more articles to split certain aspects such as independence and social identity from the nationalist movement.

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Funny. That's like saying "The English language is actually just a version of German (or Dutch, or Swedish) that has been altered over time." Or, that said, "Humans descend from chimpanzees."

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The problem is that any statement about the location of Cornwall will be inherently political because it is primarily a political entity. One possible out is to word it along the lines of

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Charles as its head of state and/or might not actually be a county of England. No serious source even raises the topic to examine it and dismiss it. It's pretty much the definition of

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was a policy (it isn't, it's an essay) and b) you were the arbiter of what is correct and what is incorrect. The wording has stood since 2010 because nobody had a problem with it. Per

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The initial wording has stood since 2010, so the correct procedure is to leave it at that version until a consensus is achieved here to change it. I disagree with the proposed change.

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in certain contexts and on account of the royal relationship (plus, as usual with royal commissions, the recommendation was never taken up anyway); and the government seem to be

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These pages are not platforms for political discussion. Issues relating to Cornish politics should be restricted to those pages that directly deal with these issues (such as

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Isn't the whole point of wikipedia that people volunteer to edit and contribute and that others with more experience help and offer advice, other than snipe all the time?

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then put it in! We value your contributions and don't be afraid if your spelling isn't great as there are plenty of spelling and grammar experts on clean-up duty!

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with in the article, and in the lead already. The initial sentence regarding the island of Great Britain is to define the geographical location of Cornwall in an

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Cornish nationalism is an umbrella term that refers to a cultural, political and social movement that views Cornwall as a entity distinct from the country of

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delicately separate issues and it isn't as set in stone as one might think. Contrary to what you say, a lot of serious people have looked into it, including

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Agreed on a neutral paragraph about it on the Cornish people article, however ive had to undo a recent change there which i found totally unacceptable too.

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which that administration has historical legitimacy, or whether it should be changed in the future. Having a couple of articles which set out that case

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Have you read the thread above on "Introduction", which related directly to this discussion? The article is about the view that Cornwall should not be

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doesn't seem to know about or understand Knowledge's basic guidelines, mostly the ones about notability, verifiability, and what Knowledge isn't. --

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The current map shows the Isle of Man and Channel Islands as though they are part of the UK, which they are not. Should a different map be used?

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were agreed upon and constitute a consensus. You're going to need another consensus to change them, and you do not currently have that consensus.

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Why is that surprising? They were added here almost four years ago. If you wish to start a new thread, please do so at the bottom of the page.

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issues in the 1970-80's. all of which could easily make an article without any of the pseudo-current nationalist idealism that this has in it.

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Articles on settlements in Cornwall should be written using the standard set of headings approved by the UK geography WikiProject's guideline

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It seems to me that a fairly important missing part of this issue is the number of Cornish people that actually identify with a Cornish

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and her history but rather to give instances of genuine anti-Cornish sentiments expressed in order to be able to approach the issues of

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I doubt a separate article would pass the notability criteria, a paragraph in the existing article would probably be more accepted --

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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to mean (West) Germanic (which even makes sense given the classification of West Germanic and the amount of dialects the term

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would like recognition of their Cornish ethnicity (for example on UK census forms), recognition from the goverment under the

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https://web.archive.org/web/20090617142154/http://www.liberalhistory.org.uk/uploads/22_tregidga_devolution_for_the_duchy.pdf

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Hello guys- Right the Anti-Cornish issues have been resolved I am glad to say. Sorry if there was any "fiction" on my part.

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Also an article on cornish devolution would be nice. Its currently a redirect here but could easily have its own article.

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https://web.archive.org/web/20111008011724/http://www.danrogerson.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/cornwall.pdf

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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part of the same race initially. The Cornish language is actually just a version of Welsh that has altered over time.

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and all things Cornish. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the

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https://web.archive.org/web/20130103060025/http://www.danrogerson.org/2009/07/14/mp-calls-for-more-power-to-cornwall/

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The established wording was agreed upon above in a previous discussion between parties who disagreed. These changes

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Deadline to sign up by: 1st January 2011 639 people signed up, 361 more were needed, petition failed to meet target

724:. As mentioned above not many would advocate full independence because the vast majority wish to remain part of the 1555: 501: 3293: 2598: 1879:. If you think otherwise then you have to provide reliable source that states that Cornwall states the contrary. 1048: 699: 591: 570: 99: 3139:

to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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I would also like to ask, on Decairagos' advice too, if there be any case for a separate article discussing the

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of the Duchy. I have a lot of sourced material and I feel it would overload the page to include it all here---

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movements as being racially motivated in order to both discredit them and portray the supporters as racists. --

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stuff – and, of course, is far from being the only or main thread or argument of any nationalist position.

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All told the links above are either non-existent, or show the paucity of support for the matters raised.

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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steered well clear of dismissing the question and recommended that Cornwall be referred to as a duchy.

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archive, and will automatically generate a link to further archives as they are added in the future.

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I have some big concerns about this new section which has been added or is being expanded today.

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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points: Cornwall Council may not use the term county in their own title – and actually they're

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I was actually quite limited in what I described with either term, relating them solely to the

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must admit that it is not verifiable whatsoever and therefore the item has been removed duly.

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Could you say what? I notice you say "I found" unacceptable. That may be a bit subjective.

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lol Daicaregos, lets keep that a secret shall we? ;) We dont want to ruin our reputations

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be unencyclopedic solely in the context of this article. Elsewhere it would be pertinent.

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The Cornish language is actually just a version of Welsh that has been altered over time.

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answer the question either way, something that has ensured the longevity of the debate.

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

3060: 2745: 2617: 2535: 2446: 1875: 1651: 1567: 1486: 1446: 1405: 1332: 1287: 1076:" It is not within the scope of this sub-article to discuss the rights and wrongs of 849: 709: 51: 1754: 1730:

The map of Britain highlights the County of Cornwall. The map should highlight the

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http://web.archive.org/web/20110129104538/http://www.duchyofcornwall.org/index.htm

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http://www.liberalhistory.org.uk/uploads/22_tregidga_devolution_for_the_duchy.pdf

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an open question, and if it could be easily answered, it would have been by now.

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Please let me know what you think, here or on my talk page. Much appreciated.

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http://www.danrogerson.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/cornwall.pdf

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innocuous observation, and you've taken it way beyond that for some reason.

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identity, rather than an English one. Could we include some polls on this?

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http://www.danrogerson.org/2009/07/14/mp-calls-for-more-power-to-cornwall/

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A protest at which ten people showed up. The event went ahead as planned.

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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

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Most of all have fun editing - that's the reason we all do this, right?!

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constitutional status of Cornwall, I've never seen it. Without it, it

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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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https://web.archive.org/20150205182630/http://www.kernowtgg.co.uk/

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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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ps: the part of WP:NPOV I meant to refer to earlier was of course

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The case often cited as showing Cornwall's distinctiveness is the

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effectively does (even if it also presents counter-arguments).

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these issues. If anyone would like to edit more/add please do.

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then we would quickly be able to support ourselves once more.

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Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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One editor has been changing the wording of the lead from:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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There is a legal element to the idea that Cornwall is not

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in a balanced way, taking all points of view into account

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I have just added archive links to one external link on

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I have just added archive links to one external link on

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a

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See drop-down box for suggested article edit guidelines:

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High-importance Politics of the United Kingdom articles

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for having an article on Cornish identity (a bit like

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Royal Commission on the Constitution (United Kingdom)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a

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Knowledge:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom

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Template:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom

423:, etc) and should not overflow into other articles. 1753:No. There is a map of the Duchy's land ownership 716:and more say in self governance in the form of a 3270: 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 3309:C-Class Politics of the United Kingdom articles 1734:of Cornwall. Doesn't the Duchy include Devon? 1104:Could you say why? Why not edit and re-word it? 3121:This message was posted before February 2018. 2934:This message was posted before February 2018. 2796:This message was posted before February 2018. 2656:This message was posted before February 2018. 1220:The section is certainly inappropriate within 2570:, and ignoring Angarrack and anyone else who 1327:presented to unsuspecting viewers as fact. -- 996:true that English is but a German dialect ... 174: 2430:, is not giving the argument undue weight. 1918:(e/c) Eckerslike, that would be true if a) 3091:I have just modified one external link on 3069:Cornish independence is covered here too. 1396:There is already an article about it, see 600:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom 2874:I have just modified 2 external links on 1176:I may take a pageprint and frame it. :-D 3284:Top-importance Cornwall-related articles 3034:Cornish Nationalism v Cornish Devolution 2768:http://www.duchyofcornwall.org/index.htm 1068:Anti Cornish sentiment in the UK section 941:), they have been living on a specific 623:Politics of the United Kingdom articles 217: 3271: 395:laid down by Knowledge - particularly 2923:to let others know (documentation at 2785:to let others know (documentation at 597:This article is within the scope of 293:This article is within the scope of 213: 1895:and in some respects has never been 1535:The result of the move request was 403:. We are aware that the wording on 236:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 13: 1485:as mentioned above but what about 740:Cornish ethnicity on the UK census 14: 3325: 3279:C-Class Cornwall-related articles 3095:. Please take a moment to review 2878:. Please take a moment to review 2738:. Please take a moment to review 2610:. Please take a moment to review 2495:Constitutional Status of Cornwall 2073:Constitutional status of Cornwall 1483:Constitutional status of Cornwall 1398:Constitutional status of Cornwall 417:Constitutional status of Cornwall 1556:Cornish self-government movement 590: 569: 470: 449: 280: 270: 249: 218: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 1481:There is already an article at 1121:e/c I agree (twice in one year 932:A nation does not exist in the 637:This article has been rated as 548:This article has been rated as 339:This article has been rated as 3299:High-importance Celts articles 3289:All WikiProject Cornwall pages 3265:19:17, 13 September 2017 (UTC) 3228:14:21, 13 September 2017 (UTC) 2585:19:00, 18 September 2013 (UTC) 2562:18:40, 18 September 2013 (UTC) 2526:18:03, 18 September 2013 (UTC) 2488:17:27, 18 September 2013 (UTC) 2473:09:37, 18 September 2013 (UTC) 2440:09:29, 18 September 2013 (UTC) 2420:09:02, 18 September 2013 (UTC) 2353:07:45, 18 September 2013 (UTC) 2335:23:31, 17 September 2013 (UTC) 2292:21:40, 17 September 2013 (UTC) 2255:21:20, 17 September 2013 (UTC) 2236:10:22, 17 September 2013 (UTC) 2222:10:01, 17 September 2013 (UTC) 2189:19:25, 16 September 2013 (UTC) 2174:14:39, 16 September 2013 (UTC) 2148:14:03, 16 September 2013 (UTC) 2116:11:34, 16 September 2013 (UTC) 2085:11:05, 16 September 2013 (UTC) 2066:10:54, 16 September 2013 (UTC) 2037:16:58, 15 September 2013 (UTC) 2014:16:56, 15 September 2013 (UTC) 1999:16:31, 15 September 2013 (UTC) 1951:14:23, 15 September 2013 (UTC) 1908:14:17, 15 September 2013 (UTC) 1889:14:04, 15 September 2013 (UTC) 1863:12:42, 15 September 2013 (UTC) 776:Cornish ethnicity and identity 614:Politics of the United Kingdom 605:Politics of the United Kingdom 577:Politics of the United Kingdom 382:How to write about settlements 373:- if you know something about 319:Knowledge:WikiProject Cornwall 1: 3028:15:46, 22 December 2016 (UTC) 1641:21:38, 28 February 2010 (UTC) 1626:21:17, 28 February 2010 (UTC) 1610:20:37, 28 February 2010 (UTC) 1572:15:50, 29 November 2009 (UTC) 758:Cornish awareness and culture 611:and see a list of open tasks. 322:Template:WikiProject Cornwall 42:Put new text under old text. 3002:00:53, 1 December 2016 (UTC) 2722:10:40, 20 January 2016 (UTC) 1826:09:42, 9 February 2012 (UTC) 1802:21:46, 29 January 2011 (UTC) 1787:10:07, 22 January 2011 (UTC) 1767:09:19, 22 January 2011 (UTC) 1748:03:51, 22 January 2011 (UTC) 1549:00:06, 7 December 2009 (UTC) 1154:I agree with BritishWatcher 1084:in a more rounded fashion. " 1008:22:36, 9 February 2012 (UTC) 928:18:20, 28 October 2007 (UTC) 913:Bryan Sykes was the author. 868:09:43, 9 February 2011 (UTC) 854:09:24, 9 February 2011 (UTC) 812:Cornish and English identity 785:The webpage cannot be found 700:13:50, 9 February 2007 (UTC) 7: 3208:09:20, 24 August 2017 (UTC) 3189:07:13, 13 August 2017 (UTC) 3079:21:26, 23 August 2017 (UTC) 3065:00:16, 11 August 2017 (UTC) 2640:http://www.kernowtgg.co.uk/ 1419:ones afterall aren't they? 794:Cornish Stannary Parliament 528:Knowledge:WikiProject Celts 50:New to Knowledge? Welcome! 10: 3330: 3304:WikiProject Celts articles 3216:Scottish national identity 3152:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3088:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2965:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2871:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2862:17:01, 21 March 2016 (UTC) 2827:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2756:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} 2731:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2687:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2628:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} 2603:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 970:13:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC) 704:It would appear that many 679:) 13:36, 9th February 2007 643:project's importance scale 554:project's importance scale 531:Template:WikiProject Celts 345:project's importance scale 3049:13:49, 12 July 2017 (UTC) 2343:- but I'm not a lawyer. 1656:14:27, 1 March 2010 (UTC) 1499:14:58, 23 June 2009 (UTC) 1477:14:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC) 1451:13:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC) 1429:12:49, 23 June 2009 (UTC) 1410:11:15, 23 June 2009 (UTC) 1391:10:54, 23 June 2009 (UTC) 1377:10:40, 23 June 2009 (UTC) 1337:09:10, 23 June 2009 (UTC) 1315:17:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC) 1292:14:51, 22 June 2009 (UTC) 1274:17:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC) 1253:14:47, 22 June 2009 (UTC) 1239:14:32, 22 June 2009 (UTC) 1209:17:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC) 1186:14:52, 22 June 2009 (UTC) 1172:14:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC) 1158:Daicaregos. Now this is 1150:14:46, 22 June 2009 (UTC) 1135:14:41, 22 June 2009 (UTC) 1117:17:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC) 1099:14:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC) 1063:14:29, 23 June 2009 (UTC) 1024:21:31, 20 July 2017 (UTC) 918:21:34, 27 June 2007 (UTC) 909:21:33, 27 June 2007 (UTC) 728:- here are some examples. 720:, similar to that of the 690:As a philisophical point 636: 585: 547: 465: 351: 338: 325:Cornwall-related articles 265: 244: 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 1718:09:50, 5 July 2010 (UTC) 1703:09:42, 5 July 2010 (UTC) 1683:09:26, 5 July 2010 (UTC) 1585:Please do not modify it. 1527:Please do not modify it. 1044:10:38, 30 May 2008 (UTC) 890:01:19, 30 May 2008 (UTC) 3084:External links modified 2867:External links modified 2727:External links modified 2599:External links modified 827:) 10:22, 1st April 2007 482:is within the scope of 3294:C-Class Celts articles 2341:Cornish Foreshore Case 895:The Blood of the Isles 226:This article is rated 75:avoid personal attacks 1665:Have changed "In the 1029:Talk page maintenance 100:Neutral point of view 3133:regular verification 2946:regular verification 2808:regular verification 2742:. If necessary, add 2668:regular verification 2653:to let others know. 2614:. If necessary, add 410:WP:CornwallGuideline 391:we subscribe to the 389:WikiProject Cornwall 297:WikiProject Cornwall 105:No original research 3123:After February 2018 3093:Cornish nationalism 2936:After February 2018 2915:parameter below to 2876:Cornish nationalism 2798:After February 2018 2777:parameter below to 2736:Cornish nationalism 2658:After February 2018 2649:parameter below to 2608:Cornish nationalism 2394:Passport to Pimlico 1831:Changes to the lead 1560:Cornish nationalism 836:Another dead link. 492:and the modern day 479:Cornish nationalism 421:Cornish nationalism 307:project member page 25:Cornish nationalism 3177:InternetArchiveBot 3128:InternetArchiveBot 2990:InternetArchiveBot 2941:InternetArchiveBot 2803:InternetArchiveBot 2663:InternetArchiveBot 1808:Degree of identity 1162:unprecedented.... 803:last updated 2008 401:consensus building 232:content assessment 86:dispute resolution 47: 3153: 3030: 3018:comment added by 2966: 2860: 2828: 2720: 2688: 2560: 2524: 2471: 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2358: 2357: 2356: 2355: 2164: 2159: 2135: 2134: 2133: 2132: 2131: 2130: 2129: 2128: 2127: 2126: 2125: 2124: 2123: 2122: 2121: 2120: 2119: 2118: 2024: 1989:or some such. 1973: 1972: 1971: 1970: 1969: 1968: 1965: 1956: 1955: 1954: 1953: 1936: 1927: 1913: 1912: 1911: 1910: 1832: 1829: 1818:80.231.172.154 1809: 1806: 1805: 1804: 1774: 1771: 1770: 1769: 1738:Randall Bart 1727: 1724: 1723: 1722: 1721: 1720: 1710:BritishWatcher 1675:BritishWatcher 1667:United Kingdom 1663: 1662: 1661: 1660: 1659: 1658: 1596: 1593: 1591: 1590: 1580:requested move 1554: 1552: 1533: 1532: 1522:requested move 1516: 1514: 1513:Requested move 1511: 1510: 1509: 1508: 1507: 1506: 1505: 1504: 1503: 1502: 1501: 1491:BritishWatcher 1458: 1457: 1456: 1455: 1454: 1453: 1434: 1433: 1432: 1431: 1413: 1412: 1350: 1347: 1346: 1345: 1344: 1343: 1342: 1341: 1340: 1339: 1304: 1303: 1302: 1301: 1300: 1299: 1280:User:Brythonek 1263: 1262: 1261: 1260: 1259: 1258: 1245:BritishWatcher 1227:Cornish people 1216: 1214: 1213: 1212: 1211: 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38: 35: 34: 28: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3326: 3315: 3312: 3310: 3307: 3305: 3302: 3300: 3297: 3295: 3292: 3290: 3287: 3285: 3282: 3280: 3277: 3276: 3274: 3267: 3266: 3262: 3260: 3254: 3251: 3248: 3247: 3239: 3236: 3229: 3225: 3221: 3217: 3212: 3211: 3210: 3209: 3205: 3201: 3191: 3190: 3185: 3180: 3179: 3168: 3164: 3161: 3157: 3156: 3155: 3148: 3142: 3138: 3134: 3130: 3124: 3119: 3114: 3110: 3106: 3105: 3104: 3102: 3098: 3094: 3089: 3081: 3080: 3076: 3072: 3067: 3066: 3062: 3058: 3051: 3050: 3046: 3042: 3031: 3029: 3025: 3021: 3020:172.78.99.222 3017: 3004: 3003: 2998: 2993: 2992: 2981: 2977: 2974: 2970: 2969: 2968: 2961: 2955: 2951: 2947: 2943: 2937: 2932: 2928: 2922: 2918: 2914: 2907: 2903: 2899: 2897: 2893: 2889: 2888: 2887: 2885: 2881: 2877: 2872: 2864: 2863: 2857: 2850: 2843: 2839: 2836: 2832: 2831: 2830: 2823: 2817: 2813: 2809: 2805: 2799: 2794: 2790: 2784: 2780: 2776: 2769: 2765: 2761: 2760: 2759: 2755: 2747: 2741: 2737: 2732: 2724: 2723: 2717: 2710: 2703: 2699: 2696: 2692: 2691: 2690: 2683: 2677: 2673: 2669: 2665: 2659: 2654: 2652: 2648: 2641: 2637: 2633: 2632: 2631: 2627: 2619: 2613: 2609: 2604: 2586: 2582: 2578: 2577:Bretonbanquet 2573: 2569: 2565: 2564: 2563: 2559: 2558: 2552: 2546: 2545: 2537: 2533: 2529: 2527: 2523: 2522: 2516: 2510: 2509: 2500: 2496: 2491: 2490: 2489: 2485: 2481: 2480:Bretonbanquet 2476: 2475: 2474: 2470: 2469: 2463: 2457: 2456: 2448: 2443: 2442: 2441: 2437: 2433: 2429: 2424: 2423: 2422: 2421: 2417: 2416: 2410: 2404: 2403: 2395: 2390: 2387: 2382: 2379: 2376: 2354: 2350: 2346: 2342: 2338: 2337: 2336: 2332: 2328: 2327:Bretonbanquet 2324: 2320: 2315: 2311: 2307: 2306:Mebyon Kernow 2303: 2300: 2295: 2294: 2293: 2289: 2288: 2282: 2276: 2275: 2267: 2263: 2258: 2257: 2256: 2252: 2248: 2247:Bretonbanquet 2243: 2239: 2238: 2237: 2233: 2229: 2225: 2224: 2223: 2219: 2218: 2212: 2206: 2205: 2196: 2192: 2191: 2190: 2186: 2182: 2181:Bretonbanquet 2177: 2176: 2175: 2171: 2167: 2163: 2157: 2152: 2151: 2150: 2149: 2145: 2141: 2117: 2113: 2112: 2106: 2100: 2099: 2090: 2089: 2088: 2087: 2086: 2082: 2078: 2074: 2069: 2068: 2067: 2063: 2062: 2056: 2050: 2049: 2040: 2039: 2038: 2034: 2030: 2029:Bretonbanquet 2025: 2021: 2017: 2016: 2015: 2011: 2007: 2002: 2001: 2000: 1996: 1992: 1988: 1987: 1986: 1985: 1984: 1983: 1982: 1981: 1979: 1966: 1962: 1961: 1960: 1959: 1958: 1957: 1952: 1948: 1944: 1943:Bretonbanquet 1940: 1937: 1933: 1928: 1925: 1921: 1917: 1916: 1915: 1914: 1909: 1905: 1901: 1896: 1892: 1891: 1890: 1886: 1882: 1878: 1876: 1874: 1871: 1867: 1866: 1865: 1864: 1860: 1856: 1855:Bretonbanquet 1851: 1850: 1845: 1842: 1841: 1836: 1828: 1827: 1823: 1819: 1815: 1803: 1799: 1795: 1791: 1790: 1789: 1788: 1784: 1780: 1768: 1764: 1760: 1756: 1752: 1751: 1750: 1749: 1746: 1745: 1740: 1733: 1719: 1715: 1711: 1706: 1705: 1704: 1700: 1696: 1693:) would do. 1692: 1687: 1686: 1685: 1684: 1680: 1676: 1672: 1668: 1657: 1653: 1649: 1644: 1643: 1642: 1638: 1634: 1629: 1628: 1627: 1623: 1619: 1614: 1613: 1612: 1611: 1607: 1603: 1589: 1586: 1581: 1576: 1575: 1574: 1573: 1569: 1565: 1561: 1557: 1551: 1550: 1546: 1542: 1538: 1531: 1528: 1523: 1518: 1517: 1500: 1496: 1492: 1488: 1484: 1480: 1479: 1478: 1474: 1470: 1466: 1465: 1464: 1463: 1462: 1461: 1460: 1459: 1452: 1448: 1444: 1440: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1436: 1435: 1430: 1426: 1422: 1417: 1416: 1415: 1414: 1411: 1407: 1403: 1399: 1395: 1394: 1393: 1392: 1388: 1384: 1379: 1378: 1374: 1370: 1365: 1363: 1358: 1354: 1338: 1334: 1330: 1325: 1324: 1323: 1322: 1321: 1320: 1319: 1318: 1317: 1316: 1312: 1308: 1297: 1296: 1295: 1294: 1293: 1289: 1285: 1281: 1278: 1277: 1276: 1275: 1271: 1267: 1256: 1255: 1254: 1250: 1246: 1242: 1241: 1240: 1236: 1232: 1228: 1223: 1219: 1218: 1217: 1210: 1206: 1202: 1197: 1196: 1195: 1194: 1187: 1183: 1179: 1175: 1174: 1173: 1169: 1165: 1161: 1157: 1153: 1152: 1151: 1147: 1143: 1139: 1138: 1137: 1136: 1132: 1128: 1124: 1119: 1118: 1114: 1110: 1103: 1102: 1101: 1100: 1096: 1092: 1086: 1085: 1083: 1079: 1073: 1065: 1064: 1060: 1056: 1046: 1045: 1041: 1037: 1026: 1025: 1021: 1017: 1009: 1005: 1001: 995: 991: 987: 982: 979: 977: 974: 973: 972: 971: 967: 963: 957: 956: 952: 948: 944: 940: 935: 930: 929: 926: 920: 919: 916: 911: 910: 907: 901: 892: 891: 887: 883: 869: 865: 861: 857: 856: 855: 851: 847: 843: 842: 841: 840: 839: 838: 837: 826: 822: 818: 813: 810: 809: 808: 807: 806: 805: 804: 795: 792: 791: 790: 789: 788: 787: 786: 777: 774: 773: 772: 771: 770: 769: 768: 759: 756: 755: 754: 753: 752: 751: 750: 741: 738: 737: 736: 735: 734: 733: 727: 723: 719: 715: 711: 707: 703: 702: 701: 698: 693: 689: 688: 683: 682: 681: 678: 674: 670: 644: 640: 634: 631: 630: 627: 610: 606: 602: 601: 596: 593: 589: 588: 584: 578: 575: 572: 568: 567: 555: 551: 545: 542: 541: 538: 521: 520: 515: 514: 509: 508: 503: 499: 495: 491: 487: 486: 481: 480: 476: 473: 469: 468: 464: 458: 455: 452: 448: 447: 425: 422: 418: 414: 411: 406: 402: 398: 394: 390: 386: 383: 379: 376: 372: 369: 368: 367: 364: 363: 360: 359: 355: 354: 350: 346: 342: 336: 333: 332: 329: 312: 308: 304: 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