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page a request that you respond here. When it turned out that you did not have a good justification for your move, I asked you to move the article back. It seems that you were quick to take offence -- you seemed to think that I was ordering you to do something, when I was only making a polite request, for example. (There's not much point ordering something to do something on the internet -- it just doesn't work.) I did not intend to cause offence, only to help make
Knowledge better. I have started to move the articles back, and would appreciate some help.
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1373:"will you correct every mistake you made if I point it up to you?" If you point out my mistakes, and I am sure that I make mistakes, I will correct them, and thank you for teaching me more about Knowledge. Contributors want to make Knowledge a better encyclopedia. It does not help to have people going around moving articles incorrectly. As long as you continue to deny that you made any mistake and refuse to correct them, I expect that you will continue to make the same mistakes, which makes Knowledge worse.
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exist in
English (try googling them to see if you get any relevant hits about the Quebec political parties other than Knowledge and mirrors), and the fact that some of your translations were just plain wrong means that you made a mistake in following the Knowledge style guide. You have not provided any reference to Knowledge style that supports your arguments that these page moves were correct.
1123:("Rally") is also wrong? Anyway, I don't want to fight. Thanks for your recognition on my redirects. If you had talked to me in this manner at first I probably would have undone my movings as you requested. I promess I'm going to ask before moving another article. I also hope that blocking is not necessary in the future, but I would not mind one bit if you decide to do it. Good wishes. --
1203:"I don't believe as much in following every little rule" -- that is an odd statement for someone who justified his actions by saying "I was just using the Use English principle". You justified your moves by referring to a rule that you did not understand. Everyone makes mistakes. Most people own up to them.
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Dear Ground Zero: I'm not saying this to horrify you, but I've never read one sixth of
Knowledge instructions or style guide, and the truth is that 95% of all editors haven't either. I would advise not to take surfing the Internet that seriously. And what about DoubleBlue saying that your translation
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Dear GroundZero: Maybe you are right and I was fast to take offense. Except that I never said I made a mistake :) I don't believe as much in following every little rule, we would be still slaves in Middle Ages Europe if we have gone for it. I don't have a clue as to how re-move moved pages, I though
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Convention: Except where other accepted
Knowledge naming conventions give a different indication, use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things; use the naming conflict guideline when there is a conflict. Where articles have descriptive
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Le RIN n'est devenu un parti politique de gauche qu'en 1963. Cependant, il est clair assez tôt que la plupart de ses membres et de ses sympatisant était des gauchistes. Mais bon, toute la jeunesse du Québec était gauchiste à cette époque, ce n'est pas étonnant. Comme être pro-mondialisation dans les
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I'm sure I haven't read one sixth of the
Knowledge style guide either, so from time to time, I make mistakes, learn from those mistakes when other editors point them out, and do my best to go back and fix the mistakes that I've made. I am glad that at least you have accepted that this situation was
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Ok, if I do the same that you did, will you correct every mistake you made if I point it up to you? And are you going to justify your self for any good faith action you do if I demand you so, whenever I want? And can I let messages in your talk page every week to let you know exactly how wrong you
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I think if you go back and take a look, I was civil with you from the start. When
Mathieugp first raised the issue, I asked other editors not to move the article back until you had a chance to defend your move, noting that there may have been something that we overlooked, and I posted on your talk
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Againme, your first mistake was to read only the first part of the
Knowledge instruction on using English words and then stop reading. The rest of the sentence says "unless the native form is more commonly recognized by readers than the English form". The fact that most of your translations do not
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Bah ouais, bah ouais, eh? (by the way, with the exception of the anglophone parties and the liberals, the rest of the quebec parties have always referenced by their french names, even by the english-language media outside of quebec -- i.e. Action
Democratique du Quebec has never been mentioned as
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Dear Ground Zero, I see you are trying to take this further. As I explained before, I do not see those movings as mistakes, so I cannot fix what is not broken... And you are mistaken: I don't expect others to do anything, it's you, with a three-or-four-guys "consensus", who wants to see something
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Dear Ground Zero: The coment you just wrote in my talk page seems to me a little rude, like you are ordering me to do something. I don't think I made a mistake, because I'm sure the native names are not more recognized where I live. Most people could not even pronounce them. So, if you guys think
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While the result is pretty clear, I think we can avoid multiple moves by waiting for the original editor to comment. I have left a note on his/her talk page. If we don't hear back within a few days, then we should do the move. This problem could have been avoided if
Againme had heeded the general
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Generally, article naming should prefer what the greatest number of
English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature.... Knowledge determines the recognizability of a name by seeing
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I do not intend to be rude. What I wrote was: "please correct your mistakes, rather than leaving them for other people to clean up. Thank you." This is a request, not an order. Along with several other editors, I have indicated that your numerous page moves (that you made without discussion with
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Convention: Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article, unless the native form is more commonly recognized by readers than the English form. The choice between anglicized and native spellings should follow English usage (e.g., Besançon, Søren
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Kierkegaard and Göttingen, but Nuremberg, delicatessen, and Florence). Often this will be the local version, as with Madrid. Sometimes the usual English version will differ somewhat from the local form as in Franz Josef Strauss; and rarely, as with Mount Everest, it will be completely different.
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Your refusal to accept your mistakes and take responsibility for them is irresponsible. To answer a previous question, if you continue to undertake pages moves without consultation or that violate the Knowledge style guide, yes, you can be blocked. This would be regrettable: you do a lot of
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Againme: The parties indicated are only known by their original French names. The English translation is never used so, in these cases, we use the native name since that is how it is known. People looking for information on these parties would never expect to find them anywhere else. Your
1562:. I would translate to whatever in English usage would make more sense in the context of a political organization. I do not know if "Gathering for National Independence" (or "Gathering for WHATEVER") has any comparable precedent. If it does, then maybe it should be preferred. --
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Democratic Action of Quebec (maybe once or twice, but in the last 10 years, media has always used the french name), PQ but never Quebecker's Party, BQ but never Quebecker's Bloc, Quebec Solidaire but never as United Quebec, etc....see where I'm going with this?)
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I did try and it did not work, it told me that the new destination name already existed. Following main rules doesn't involve necessarily following every rule. I think this is getting personal for you as you are now harassing me on my talk page. Please
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in this particular issue. I think these entrys should be in English, so I cannot undo that. People looking for information on these parties will find it as there is redirections from French names. Can I be blocked or something like that because of
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Dear GroundZero: On the contrary, you don't have to expect such an awful outcoming because I told you I'm not doing that anymore without asking before. As for mistakes you should correct, you said things about me that are not true, for example
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other editors) violate the Knowledge style guide. We have explained why this is the case. Please accept that you made a mistake, and that you should now undo your mistakes. It would be rude of you to expect other editors to clean up after you.
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worthwhile work in creating redirects. It would be better for both you and Knowledge if you use your talents and efforts to edit and contribute to Knowledge in a constructive way. I hope that blocking is not necessary in the future.
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With respect to the comment I made in the edit summary about you moving the Parti social démocratique du Québec page incorrectly, I was mistaken. You did not make that move. I apologize for claiming incorrectly that you did.
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Since there is clear consensus for this article to return, I requested this article to be moved back (admin move was required) and has been carried out. It's not clear to me what the other articles are that should be moved.
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has moved a whole bunch of Quebec political party articles to translations of names: National Union, etc., which simply are not used in English. I do not agree with these moves and will try to find justification in
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Clearly the French names are the ones used even in English. Rough translations are inappropriate for main reference to these things though a one-time parenthetical explanation of the meaning may be appropriate.
1200:, and you have not made any attempt to justify your moves beyond the first two words of the "Use English" rule. The fact that you can't bring yourself to accept that you made a mistake says a lot about you.
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We have a discussion, present our rationales, and establish a consensus. Disagreement is fine, so long if consensus differs from your position, you live and let live rather than edit war. Cheers!
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Convention: Name your pages in English and place the native transliteration on the first line of the article, unless the native form is more commonly recognized by readers than the English form."
975:. Please take responsibility for your mistakes, and undo them. I do not think that this is an unreasonable request, and I am disappointed that you expect others to fix your mistakes for you.
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I was just using the Use English principle. But if you wish, go ahead. I just ask you not to delete the English versions. Rally appears many times in English Knowledge as a translation for
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advice to suggest a move on the article talk page before doing the move. We should also consider the possibility that he/she has a trump card in the form of some hard-and-fast rule in
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There is a box you check to delete the destination page. You just have to read the instructions. Encouraging you to take responsibility and fix your own mistakes is not harassment.
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1206:"I don't have a clue as to how re-move moved pages" -- you move a page back the same way you moved it in the first place. Try it and you'll learn something new. Regards,
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By the way, "rally" is not really a good translation. I'm not sure there is a good translation but the meaning is more of "assembly"/"organisation"/political "party".
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Clearly, the RIN is always referred to by its French name in English texts. A simple Google search will reveal this. I vote to move this and the other articles back.
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only sysops were able to do that. But I'm going to help at least by categorising English language redirects that are no longer main title articles. Regards.--
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The intro currently says: "The Rassemblement pour l'Indépendance Nationale (RIN, English: Rally for National Independence) was a political organization...."
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Please undo your mistakes by returning the pages to their original locations. I agree that having the English translations as redirects is not a bad idea.
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The other editors who have commented here have indicated that your move was incorrect because it violates various parts of the Knowledge style guides.
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on this point. Unless there is a widely used and recognized English-language version of the name, use the official French-language version. --
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1196:"I never said I made a mistake" -- the evidence of your mistake has been presented abundantly clearly. Your moves were clearly in violation of
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Dear DoubleBlue: Thanks for your concern. I'm now adding the proper categories to the English titles that are now redirections. Greetings.--
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In future, I strongly recommend that discuss page moves on the articles' talk pages, as is always recommended when moving pages. Thank you.
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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Come on guys, I think it's time to kiss & hug! Or you can just shake hands and pretend to smile: I'll be your witness. ;-) --
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Your second mistake was to move articles without discussing the moves on their talk pages as is recommended for any page moves.
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By the way, I don't know what the heck means "Bah ouais, bah ouais" :)... See? That's because this is the English Knowledge...--
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Taking responsibility for your actions by undoing the page moves would be a good demonstration of good will on your part.
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I am not convince that the expression "Rally for National Independence" was ever in usage in English to refer to the
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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at best and certainly unhelpful for readers to present it as some sort of recognised name for the entity.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
1638:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit
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Anyway, I'm inclined today to follow Mathieugp's advice, let's pretend to smile and say goodbye. --
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https://web.archive.org/web/20040326224421/http://membres.lycos.fr/independance/organisations/rin/
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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413:. Unless references to this usage can be cited, I suggest moving back to the old French name. --
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Againme, as other editors indicate, you were mistaken in oversimplifying the "use English" rule
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I am glad that you are going to stop moving pages without asking, That is a good first step.
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Hear, hear. I don't think that "Rally" is even the correct translation of "rassemblement".
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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with
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done. Furthermore, it's you who expect me to do something against my will. See you!!--
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as "assembling, gathering". Before I change this, I would like other opinions.
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Your numerous moves of Quebec political party articles violated this principle.
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1670:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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it's wrong and want to undo it, I won't stand in your way. Have a nice day. --
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It is clear that you were mistaken: the Use English principle says: ":
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Some of the article moves have been to incorrect translations, e.g., "
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Mid-importance Political parties and politicians in Canada articles
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are and what you need to learn? You did all this things to me. --
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Start-Class Political parties and politicians in Canada articles
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In French, it is difficult to see any difference at all between
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Why should we make up an English name for these parties? That's
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Ok, so we are pretty unanimous on this. Who wants to do it? --
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what verifiable reliable sources in English call the subject.
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Thank you DoubleBlue, I would never start and edit war.--
1536:. Harrap's Concise French/English Dictionary translates
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http://membres.lycos.fr/independance/organisations/rin/
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WikiProject Political parties and politicians in Canada
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I don't think that this is the correct translation of
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that we have overlooked, however unlikely that seems.
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888:Guys, I'm sorry to tell you that I'm going to be a
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1660:This message was posted before February 2018.
1632:Rassemblement pour l'Indépendance Nationale
1576:Rally should be an acceptable translation.
1528:. I think that "rally" is a translation of
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1630:I have just modified one external link on
1606:Okay, Mathieu and Nat have convinced me.
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371:universités à l'heure actuelle... :-)
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366:Read the manifesto. ;-) --
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339:Low-importance
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1686:source check
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449:Here it is:
448:
429:User:Againme
426:
410:
408:
382:
365:
359:
332:
310:
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159:
119:
53:WikiProjects
1608:Ground Zero
1542:Ground Zero
1432:Ground Zero
1375:Ground Zero
1248:Ground Zero
1208:Ground Zero
1156:Ground Zero
1108:Ground Zero
977:Ground Zero
799:Ground Zero
726:Ground Zero
597:Agreed. --
586:Ground Zero
521:Skeezix1000
513:WP:CANSTYLE
487:Ground Zero
438:Ground Zero
385:—Preceding
43:Start-class
1736:Categories
1723:Report bug
1560:ralliement
1530:ralliement
362:Liberlogos
1706:this tool
1699:this tool
1564:Mathieugp
1296:Mathieugp
599:Mathieugp
563:Mathieugp
415:Mathieugp
373:Mathieugp
368:Mathieugp
1712:Cheers.—
387:unsigned
356:Untitled
286:Politics
277:politics
227:Politics
81:Politics
1636:my edit
1592:toronto
1504:Againme
1475:Againme
1414:Againme
1341:toronto
1262:Againme
1234:Againme
1232:stop.--
1176:Againme
1125:Againme
1051:Againme
991:Againme
959:Againme
895:Againme
893:this?--
760:Againme
629:Againme
379:sources
313:on the
162:on the
1532:, not
1198:WP:MOS
1067:Double
1030:Double
938:Double
911:Double
841:Double
582:WP:MOS
541:Double
455:says
434:WP:MOS
135:Canada
126:Canada
77:Quebec
72:Canada
49:scale.
1587:nat.u
1336:nat.u
517:WP:NC
1568:talk
1558:and
1508:talk
1479:talk
1418:talk
1300:talk
1266:talk
1238:talk
1180:talk
1129:talk
1077:talk
1071:Blue
1055:talk
1040:talk
1034:Blue
995:talk
963:talk
948:talk
942:Blue
921:talk
915:Blue
899:talk
851:talk
845:Blue
764:talk
633:talk
603:talk
567:talk
551:talk
545:Blue
525:talk
419:talk
395:talk
1680:RfC
1650:to
305:Low
154:Mid
1738::
1693:.
1688:}}
1684:{{
1610:|
1584:.
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341:).
230::
79:/
75::
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417:(
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317:.
206:.
186:.
166:.
55::
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