1344:. Fearing that she was a danger to herself, he arranged to have her committed to a psychiatric hospital in Batavia, Illinois, in 1875. With his mother in the hospital, he was left with control of her finances, although he used his own money to pay for her care. As the head of the family, he felt that it was his duty to protect her, although he did wish that she would have "every liberty and privilege" restored to her as soon as she was better. On May 20, 1875, she arrived at Bellevue Place, a private, upscale sanitarium in the Fox River Valley.
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would be necessary to help the reader understand where the discrepancy between
Lincoln's own telling and the telling of modern scholars was introduced. Since it's just some dude, we don't have to care about his opinion to that extent; if his opinion is an opinion widely held by scholars, then the article should say such. As it stands, based on your reasoning I would delete, along with the above sentence in red, this sentence:
778:. Don't worry about the seven-day limit, which is really just an arbitrary formality; ping me anytime and I'll re-review it. If you don't want to go through this process again, notify me and I will fail this article. If you think that any part of my review is in error, ping me. Please continue to improve articles; hopefully this one can be improved to GA-class (and maybe even FA-class) someday!
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1010:"principal memory". The first author had it right, but by the third it had transmogrified like the game of "Telephone" into a different concept. Anything written about the Lincolns has a tendency to lean towards the hagiographic, one well-known author's opinion can easily somehow become a historical "fact". I'd just like to avoid that in this case.
982:
In that case, I would suggest deleting the whole thing. It is fine to state a single person's opinion, but to state the reason for the singular person's opinion is approaching a too-high level of specificity IMO. If, for example, "the principal memory" thing was an opinion held by many scholars, it
594:
section. The previous reviewer sums it up nicely: "The family and early life section is a massive stretch of various biographical details, while the career sections are sometimes just a couple sentences." I don't think you've adequately addressed that issue. The main change I would make would be to
1166:
Much to the embarrassment of the president, Mary Todd
Lincoln prevented Robert Lincoln from joining the Army until shortly before the war's conclusion. "We have lost one son, and his loss is as much as I can bear, without being called upon to make another sacrifice," Mary Todd Lincoln insisted to
402:
Of Robert's children, Jessie Harlan
Lincoln Beckwith (1875–1948) had two children, but neither of them – Mary Lincoln Beckwith ("Peggy" 1898–1975) nor Robert Todd Lincoln Beckwith ("Bud" 1904–1985) – had children of their own. Robert's other daughter, Mary Todd Lincoln ("Mamie" 1869–1938) married
1044:
Hmmmm...ok, I can see your point. I've adjusted the Note to hopefully only stick to the facts. I don't think it's synthesis or original research to lay out what different historians/authors have stated about
Abraham's travels and the words they use to characterize Robert's statements about those
943:
Donald's opinion seems to be based on the writings of
Lincoln biographer Frederick Trevor Hill and scholar Wayne C. Temple. Hill would write that "The Hon. Robert Lincoln told the writer that he distinctly remembers seeing his father start out on horseback, with his saddle-bags, to accompany the
418:
That particular section has been cleaned-up. As to the ages of RTL's own children...I think it is encyclopedic and of interest to our readership to include the life dates of his children. I am sure most of our readership have no idea that 2 of
Abraham Lincoln's grandchildren survived the Great
1357:
Bellevue's director, who at Mary's commitment trial assured the jury she would benefit from treatment at his facility, now declared her well enough to go to
Springfield to live with her sister. Her commitment and subsequent events alienated Lincoln from his mother, and they did not
1259:
Lincoln also acknowledged that he was aware of the "great inconvenience" that
Johnson had since becoming president of the United States only a short time earlier./Following his father's assassination, in April 1865 Robert moved to the city of Chicago with his remaining
1007:
a principal memory of his childhood and is not the most vivid image of his childhood. In my opinion Donald has taken one memory and blown it up all out of proportion. What was important to me to show here is that it's a slippery slope from "distinctly remembers"-:
1143:
When he initially expressed interest in the law school to his father, President
Lincoln made reference to his own pleasant, but informal legal training by stating "If you do, you should learn more than I ever did, but you will never have so good a
1002:
I have instead moved the info into a Notes section. It's not just some "dude" - Donald has a
Knowledge article and his book about RTL, "Lincoln", is one of the most recent and widely-read biographies about the man. The bit about the saddlebags is
301:
All of the above have been adjusted. An aside: this article occasionally goes through extensive editing/re-editing. Some of this puffery/sensationalistic verbage is a relic of past editing, I've corrected/edited/adjusted what I could find.
474:
As I said above, certain words are a bit too vivid. The beginning of the family section does not need to have the list of children; the necessary details can easily fit into the general prose. Besides that, the rest is fine.
985:
Robert's memory of the saddlebags has been changed from his personal "distinctly remembers" (Hill in 1906) to "the first memory" (Temple in 1960), then in 1995 becoming "the principal memory" of his childhood in Donald's
959:
Actually in my opinion it is important/necessary. A basically untrue statement about Robert Todd Lincoln and about something he supposedly stated has crept into the historical narrative and has been accepted as
1454:
Lincoln arranged to have Pullman quietly excused from the subpoena issued for Pullman to testify in the 1895 trials of the leaders of the American Railway Union for conspiracy during the 1894 Pullman strike.
1310:
In an era before air conditioning, Robert, Mary, and the children would often leave their hot city life behind for the cooler climate of Mt. Pleasant. During the 1880s the family would summer at the Harlan
830:
Lincoln was born in Springfield, Illinois, and graduated from Harvard College. He then served on the staff of Ulysses S. Grant as a captain in the Union Army in the closing days of the American Civil War.
739:
I would remove the images of his children. Referring back to the previous reviewer, "I'm not convinced that the images of other people are necessary, especially since they're all thumbnail size."
419:
Depression and one even outlived the end of WWII. Abraham Lincoln II's short life had a great impact on his father, the dates seem important to me. But let's discuss - I can change my mind.
1353:
Mary also wrote to the editor of the Chicago Times and shortly, the embarrassment Robert had hoped to avoid came to the forefront, with his motives and character being publicly questioned.
528:
I'm not going to go into this in detail since the previous reviewer already did such a good job of handling the sourcing. I checked the diff and verified the few added sources; good to go.
1349:
Three months after she started living there, Mary Lincoln was able to escape from Bellevue Place. She smuggled letters to her lawyer, James B. Bradwell, and his wife, Myra
354:| I would either replace the dashes with commas, or drop the middle clause altogether, as anyone who is interested need only click twice to get to the present-day school.
598:
Heh, the problem is this—that many of his biographers & many historians don't seem to care all that much about his career but point taken. Trimming & adjusting
1079:
When his father became president of the United States on the eve of the Civil War, Lincoln was the only one of the president's three children to be largely on his own.
232:
The prose has this aspect of... weak sensationalism that doesn't conform to the typical standards of encyclopedic writing (I would definitely mark this with a
866:...Lincoln was often spoken of as a possible candidate for a national government position, including the presidency, but never took steps to mount a campaign.
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1289:| There is no good reason for these names to be arranged in a list. The dates are interesting but ultimately not relevant to Lincoln's bio.
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1028:. Unless a reliable source lays this out, we can note the different authors' comments, but shouldn't add our own reasoning to a point of
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concerned about what he thought were his mother's "spend-thrift" ways, hallucinations, paranoia, and increasingly eccentric behaviors
774:
Overall, I don't think that this article at this time is ready to be promoted to GA-class. As such, I'm going to put this nomination
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566:; everything that is necessary is here. (Some aspects of his career could be explained a little more, but that's a trivial thing.)
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Mary Todd Lincoln prevented Robert from joining the Army until shortly before the war's conclusion, citing the death of William.
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They had three children, two daughters and one son: Mary "Mamie" Lincoln, Abraham "Jack" Lincoln II, and Jessie Harlan Lincoln.
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In 1871, Lincoln's only surviving brother, Tad, died at the age of 18, leaving his mother devastated with grief. Lincoln was
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As a result of such a change, this sentence would be moved back one, and the preceding sentence would read something like
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Went through and I think I've responded to all your points. Let me know if anything remaining isn't to your satisfaction.
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Lincoln was then enrolled at Phillips Exeter Academy to further prepare for attending college, and he graduated in 1860
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Spelling and grammar are fine. The prose is a bit awkward. I've just never seen writing like it on Knowledge.
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The one office to which he was elected was town supervisor of South Chicago, which he held from 1876 to 1877;
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trim the sections on his relationship with his father and mother. They take up more room than they need to.
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Lincoln was subsequently enrolled at Phillips Exeter Academy to prepare for college, and graduated in 1860
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1427:...clashing with Lincoln biographer William Herndon over Herndon's statements about his famous father
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is rarely approriate in a Wikivoice sense; a direct quote of the source or a less vivid word such as
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I just deleted the Town Supervisor statement, seems out of kilter to mention in the lead section.
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disavowed any interest in running and stated he would not accept nomination for either position.
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One such example that gives insight into his father's indulgence and childhood in general
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I can't think of a good way to word this, but this sentence is awkward and confusing:
964:. It is not a verifiable fact, it is not a quote and it is important to state what is
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when Lincoln's only surviving brother, Tad, died at the age of 18, leaving his mother
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Well, as the saying goes..."perfect is the enemy of good". Yes, I'll submit the DYK.
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I understand why this is included, but if I'm following correctly, it amounts to
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1173:| more concise, shorter, and deletes one of many quotes in that short paragraph
1238:| anyone interested will click of the preceding link, the date isn't necessary
905:. I don't know if this is actually a mistake, but it confused me for a second.
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Little to be said here. I disagree with the previous reviewer's assertion that
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Are you going to sumbit a DYK nom? If not, I'd be more than happy to do one.
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For the purposes of this bio, people's birth and death years are irrelevant.
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was related by Joseph Humphreys, who had taken a train to Lexington in 1847:
1081:| What does this mean? I'm kinda confused. I'm sure this can be clarified.
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I'm going to list out every potential issue I see in the text by section.
648:: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing
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It went through several name changes, and is now called Glenwood Academy
1351:, who was Mary's friend as well as a feminist lawyer and spiritualist.
1206:...which meant he probably would not be involved in any actual combat
1313:| isn't really that important in the grand scheme of Lincoln's life
840:
He served as the town supervisor of South Chicago from 1876 to 1877;
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In my opinion, the dates are relevant but it's all been adjusted.
1149:
It was human interest, a personal anecdote but it's been deleted.
1236:...before John Wilkes Booth's assassination of President Lincoln.
1045:
travels when Robert was a child. Let me know what you think now.
1210:...which meant he was likely not involved in any actual combat.
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All right, let's do this! Will be done in a week or less.
946:| level of specificity that isn't strictly necessary
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reconcile until shortly before her unexpected death
842:| more in line with FA-class political bios such as
288:
while avoiding the aforementioned Wikivoice issues.
332:that I've never seen before on Knowledge. Example:
236:cleanup template). A few examples (emphasis mine):
1146:| it's really not all that relevant or noteworthy
204:understandable to an appropriately broad audience
342:Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law
367:I have gone through and edited & excised
250:| Excess characterization; can be simplified.
1059:The current version is much better. Thanks —
564:There are significant gaps in this biography
1197:...President Lincoln wrote to Ulysses Grant
575:without going into unnecessary detail (see
1285:Reword the list to fit it into the prose:
1193:...President Lincoln wrote Ulysses Grant
609:, hope it's enough. Let me know if not.
590:Way too much detail, especially in the
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903:five days before he was due to turn 83
1489:It's not perfect, but it's good. You
206:; spelling and grammar are correct:
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202:the prose is clear, concise, and
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242:tragedy beset the family again
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703:valid non-free use rationales
328:Tying into the above point,
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330:extensive use of the m-dash
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823:...to outlive both parents
1355:Faced with the publicity,
371:of the various m-dashes.
338:Old University of Chicago
1533:19:16, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
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1212:| probably is too vague
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819:...to outlive his mother
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312:22:13, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
230:Interesting word choice.
176:05:46, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
161:05:46, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
18:Talk:Robert Todd Lincoln
724:to the topic, and have
348:at the Chicago firm of
944:judge on the circuit."
352:, McCagg & Fuller.
1422:Later life and career
1107:| worded weirdly IMO
534:Broad in its coverage
439:it complies with the
1202:Left this one alone.
1009:"first memory"-: -->
652:or content dispute.
573:focused on the topic
515:no original research
488:See above sections.
1397:Add this instead:
968:about the matter.
699:copyright statuses
666:, if possible, by
461:list incorporation
1167:President Lincoln
1026:original research
726:suitable captions
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844:Ronald Reagan
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577:summary style
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445:lead sections
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1493:! Good job.
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1342:and thoughts
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549:main aspects
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189:Well-written
188:
181:Here we go,
172:
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117:Article talk
116:
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93:
90:
81:Instructions
697:with their
664:Illustrated
346:studied law
248:with grief.
215:(kind of?)
104:visual edit
1525:Shearonink
1460:Shearonink
1458:Adjusted.
1438:Shearonink
1436:Adjusted.
1407:Shearonink
1405:Adjusted.
1372:Shearonink
1370:Adjusted.
1318:Shearonink
1316:Adjusted.
1294:Shearonink
1266:Shearonink
1264:Adjusted.
1243:Shearonink
1217:Shearonink
1215:Adjusted.
1178:Shearonink
1176:Adjusted.
1151:Shearonink
1122:Shearonink
1120:Adjusted.
1086:Shearonink
1047:Shearonink
1012:Shearonink
970:Shearonink
966:verifiable
934:Early life
919:Shearonink
883:Shearonink
850:Shearonink
798:Shearonink
754:Shearonink
720:media are
693:media are
611:Shearonink
510:Verifiable
490:Shearonink
421:Shearonink
373:Shearonink
304:Shearonink
278:repeatedly
246:devastated
183:Shearonink
48:Authorship
34:GA toolbox
1332:Trimming:
1084:Deleted.
1030:synthesis
938:Trimming:
571:it stays
400:Example:
282:adamantly
274:adamantly
268:adamantly
240:In 1871,
144:Reviewer:
71:Templates
62:Reviewing
27:GA Review
1511:Cessaune
1496:Cessaune
1477:Cessaune
1387:Politics
1360:possibly
990:Cessaune
986:Lincoln.
956:Not done
794:Cessaune
781:Cessaune
722:relevant
670:such as
650:edit war
234:{{tone}}
168:Cessaune
157:contribs
147:Cessaune
76:Criteria
1391:Delete
1338:already
1308:Delete
1260:family.
1061:ADavidB
1042:Adavidb
1034:ADavidB
776:on hold
631:Neutral
457:fiction
350:Scammon
127:history
108:history
94:Article
1491:passed
1281:Family
1144:time."
701:, and
695:tagged
672:images
646:Stable
459:, and
449:layout
344:– and
340:– now
1311:home.
680:audio
678:, or
676:video
668:media
513:with
136:Watch
16:<
1529:talk
1464:talk
1442:talk
1411:talk
1376:talk
1322:talk
1298:talk
1270:talk
1247:talk
1221:talk
1182:talk
1155:talk
1126:talk
1117:Done
1090:talk
1051:talk
1016:talk
974:talk
923:talk
915:Done
887:talk
879:Done
854:talk
814:Lead
802:talk
758:talk
749:Done
615:talk
606:Done
494:talk
485:Done
425:talk
415:Done
377:talk
364:Done
308:talk
298:Done
284:and
151:talk
123:edit
100:edit
1429:to
1234:to
1208:to
1195:to
1169:to
1103:to
1032:. —
1008:-->
1005:not
838:to
821:to
579:):
369:all
266:he
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728::
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735:?
716:Y
689:Y
659:Y
641:Y
613:(
586:N
558:Y
543:?
524:Y
492:(
470:?
423:(
395:N
375:(
326:?
306:(
227:?
213:N
198:?
154:·
149:(
132:·
129:)
121:(
113:·
110:)
98:(
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