1644:: I may have a conflict of interest, because I have done a little editing to the article and attempted to review it; nevertheless, I have aimed to be objective. I have not done a systematic search for MoS issues. I have not done systematic spot checking of sources, because I am not suspicious of verification problems. The images illustrate a variety of the bird's plumages and activities quite well currently, but I think that it is likely that the artwork will improve after the article has attained FA status. I hope that more reviewers will will look at the article, because there might be MoS or copy-editing issues remaining. I am not suspicious of factual errors, so in-the-round I think that the article has reached FA status, or will do soon after a few more reviewers give support.
2507:-- I suppose it was bound to catch my eye, but the Australia subsection begins "The Common Starling was originally introduced into Australia to consume insect pests which the birds were known to eat." Using "the birds" this way suggests you mean the starlings, but that'd mean starlings were introduced to Australia to consume insect pests that starlings eat, which sounds curious. Do you mean simply "birds", i.e. other species, birds in general? BTW, I'd say "originally" is redundant unless at some stage they were all eradicated and had to be
2245:"Unpaired males begin to build nests in order to attract single females, ..." and the rest of the nesting section follows. I think I know what the section is supposed to mean, but much of this is ambiguous and vague. It could be interpreted that the male digs out the hole in the tree like a woodpecker. It is not clear that the straw and nest material is placed on the floor of a pre-existing nest cavity, or at least that is what I presume happens.
1933:
source has got something wrong because
Lorentz is actually quoting someone else as saying it without saying who said it. I think that the article needs a correction. The point is that Lorentz says that the hand-raised starling appreciates personal contact and "friendship" and that one can not be bought ready made. He gives an account of raising a starling chick and a diet for an adult starling.
2211:. I think that the comprehensiveness. readability, and artwork of the article is up to FA status. I have not checked conformity to MOS systematically. I have not spot checked sources, because I am not suspicious of factual errors. I am not very good at copy-editing English grammar. Perhaps, people who know more about starlings than me will do a better review.
1729:
Legislation has changed since 1971. Buying and selling birds without a licence isn't the same as keeping them, and as I said, most are in labs. You can't legislate for human stupidity, letting a child hold a starling near their face (or a bird of prey, or putting their fingers in a parrot cage) isn't
1095:
or avian tuberculosis rather than "tuberculosis"? I recall that avian Tb occasionally affects humans, mainly immuno-compromised humans; however, I think that by just using "tuberculosis" Wiki-linked to the Wiki article, which is mainly about human tuberculosis, is misleading. In the absence of a Wiki
203:
Common
Starling (species), starling (family). Yes Brits may use a capitalised Starling to denote the species but this is Knowledge and we acknowledge more than one species! I've fixed a few instances of this, but you need to check the whole thing carefully, for example at the bottom of voice I found
2424:
Well spotted. With a circle it would need to be clear that the dimension is the radius or the diameter. For a right circular cylinder the radius (or diameter) and length could be stated, with clarity about which dimension is the radius (or diameter) and which is the length. Would it be better to say
1932:
and it is on page 59 in my 1971 reprint published by
Methuen & Co Ltd. Lorentz says; "An extraordinarily understanding friend used to describe him as "the poor man's dog"." There is a picture of what looks like a Common Starling at the foot of the page. It seems likely to me that your secondary
1660:
I was surprised and interested to learn a little about the Common
Starling in aviculture and keeping it as a pet. Is there anything else on starlings in captivity, that would be relevant to add to the article? Would a pet starling try to stab its keeper's eyes with its pointed beak? Are there parts
1405:
There might be a suitable photograph of a nest with eggs, but I would like like to risk disturbing a nest myself, or perhaps a suitable painting of the eggs. I have seen a few images of all-brown juveniles on Flickr, but not one that is quite right for the article yet. The infobox image is an FP and
1799:
Starlings are gregarious even in the breeding season, and there's little to suggest fighting (as opposed to the usual squabbling) even for nest sites. Competition for nest holes doesn't necessarily involve fighting, it's often a matter of "finders keepers". Having said that, the source suggest that
1239:
I've tweaked to make it clear that this is a common problem with starlings (and apparently toucans and birds of paradise too). Low-iron diets have only limited success. The sources are a bit vague as to why it's not a problem with wild birds "In natural environments, iron accumulation varies with
946:
was the form in the Middle
English period, becoming scarce in the C17, but doesn't actually say that. The existence of an Indo-European root is implied by the fact that the Latin, OE (and several old Germanic cognates) aree obviously derived from a common ancestor, but Lockwood doesn't speculate on
1365:
The image of the two chicks in the gap in a wall is pleasing. I have removed the other new image of a juvenile beginning to moult and showing some adult plumage and replaced it with an excellent
Featured Picture showing a bird of a similar age. I think that the article needs an image of an younger
1880:
Austrian ethologist Konrad Lorenz described them as "the poor man's friend"; This is a quote, so would it be reasonable to also provide an in-line ref for the work in which Lorenz said this in addition to the existing in-line ref. I am not sure what FA criteria or MoS says about this, but I think
1681:
I think that it's quite uncommon except for scientific research where its abundance and ease of keeping make it a good subject, there isn't a lot of information otherwise. In its introduced range it's legal to kill a starling, let alone capture it. It the EU, I believe that it's legal to capture
1849:
I don't think it's even that, it's just jockeying for position in the large groups typical of this species. I've made it clearer now that starling will use almost any holes, but if their is a shortage, as with any other hole-species, some (usually the younger birds) don't breed at that time.
213:
The capitalisation of bird names is difficult in articles like this. Where "Starling" is used it is usually to avoid repeating "Common
Starling" excessively but it is still referring to the species rather than starlings in general. Do I understand that you think it should then be "starling"?
632:, and indeed several other genera, although it is most developed in this species, the Spotless and the White-cheeked Starling. Notably in these species it is paired with a narrower skull, and, according to HBW, the eye can be moved forward to peer down the length of the bill because of this.
1902:
The book doesn't reference the quote, and I can't find the original source. Another book says "poor man's dog", but doesn't claim to be quoting
Lorentz. It's not an MoS or FAC requirement to give primary sources, and secondary sources are preferred where there is a choice.
624:- these are probably the only two species in that genus. This also means that the morphological adaptation for prizing open the ground (the enlarged muscles are called the protractor muscles btw) are not unique to that genus, being shared by the closely related
1682:
starlings, don't know about Asia, but I shouldn't think it's protected anywhere. I don't know if there are any dangers, but I've never heard of starlings being particularly hazardous to handle (I suspect that you wouldn't hold one inches from your face though.
179:
I am nominating this for featured article because Jim and I have been working on it since the beginning of the year and we think we have polished it up nicely to FA standard. We await your views, or as Jim succinctly put it, "... we'll throw it to the wolves".
2405:
It's a good thing you copied those dimensions because it enabled me to notice and correct the error! To answer your question, with a globe you only need to give one dimension and with a cylinder, two will suffice. A bird's egg is equivalent to a cylinder.
1406:
should be shown on the page somewhere; nevertheless, I wonder if an image with the bird facing into the page and on a less distracting perch would be more suitable in the infobox. The latter half of the article has plenty of space for a few photographs.
1218:"Captive birds can accumulate excess iron in the liver, a condition which can be prevented by adding black tea-leaves to the food": I am not sure what emphasis to put on this. Does this imply that haemosiderosis is a common problem in captive starlings?
2002:"... how adept they are at picking up phrases and expressions, often mixing them up or using them on inappropriate occasions. "; how would a staling know when it is inappropriate to sing a sound? Lorentz goes into this on page 84 of
2384:"The eggs are 26.5–34.5 x 20.0–22.5 mm (1.04–1.36 x 0.79–0.89 mm)." I know what this is meant to mean, but it seems unscientific or odd describing a 3D structure with 2 dimensions. Are there any conventions about writing egg sizes?
479:
no mention of this species consuming parasites off large mammals, or the fact that the prying behaviour I mentioned above is subject to learning and that youngsters are initially not good at it. I can add these things from HBW if
1346:
The man-made structures are probably over-represented among the images but nests in holes are not so easy to photograph. I have changed one image in the article and added another which I hope covers both the points you raise.
2468:"Its gift for mimicry has been noted in literature ranging from the Mabinogion to the works of William Shakespeare." I do not know what is included in this range. Pliney the Elder is prior to this range chronologically.
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I don't think that's true for passerines, even tits and nuthatches have substantial coloured blotches and spots on the white background. Added a journal that says the blue colour is perceived well in poor light
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I've tweaked to remove the impression that
Lorentz was necessarily the first to say this and added your source. I don't want to get too involved in the keeping of starlings since it's a minor part of the topic
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Yes, it is a bit convoluted, now "The Common
Starling was introduced into Australia to consume insect pests of farm crops", also removed repetition of "important" in next sentence. Thanks for comment
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The bit about the lining of the nest with herbs is way more interesting than the rather perfunctory treatment it gets here, check the abstract. Olfaction in birds is a pretty big deal.
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Well there you go, without mention of the crops that meaning didn't even occur to me (though that may say as much about my comprehension tonight as your expression)... ;-) Cheers,
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I was thinking of a child holding a Common Starling close to its face and the starling stabbing the child's eyes with its beak. I have a footnote in a 1971 reprint of
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Omission: nestling's faecal sacs. Lorentz describes this saying that chicks defecate in the side of the nest facing the light and that the nest inside is kept clean.
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When there is competition for nest holes, do Starlings fight? If so, how do they fight? It is not immediately obvious to me how a Common Starling could fight off a
1000:- see I would have said "The songsters are more commonly male although females also sing on occasion." - the last word a sort of collective noun/adverbial thing....
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1566:"The latter species breaks off most of each wing when it finds a host"; Does this mean that the flies wings break off or the fly breaks starlings wing feathers?
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Lets be more ambitious with image selection and placement, because it is a very common species and there are plenty of photographs on Commons and Flickr.
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I've tweaked to make it clearer that the sounds are meaningless to starlings, but that they may be produced at times that seem inappropriate to humans
2008:. He says that the starling mimics sounds when singing and that the sounds have no meaning. Hence, I think that Lorentz has a more logical explanation.
1444:
There are several new images showing a range of plumages and behaviour, and there are many images on Commons. The artwork may get worked over again.
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Is "usual squabbling" a ritualised fight with rules evolved to avoid a serious fight? What happens if there is a shortage of tree holes for nests?
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I was thinking of parrots' eggs, because parrots also nest in tree holes. I think that it is interesting about the visibility of the blue colour.
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Article probably needs an image of a recently fledged brown-looking juvenile. I am aware that there is one image of older juveniles with adults.
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all appears in order - prose and layout look good. Big topic so I can't see any glaring omissions and can't imagine we'd be able to include
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916:- (?) (iii) when is "stare" - Middle English etc. do we have dates? (iv) any other discussion on what the indo-european root actually was?
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The feeding technique where the starling shoves its bill into the ground and opens it is called prying in taxonomy and probing in feeding.
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The Old English "staer", later "stare" derive from an Indo-European root dating back to the second millennium BC, as does the Latin word.
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This is such standard behaviour for passerines it's actually quite difficult to find an RS source for a particular species, done now.
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all-brown juvenile. Young juveniles are noticeable in the spring (? summer) when they come into gardens to feed in a family flock.
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If you can give a ref for the learned prying, that would be great. I can only partially source the item below, so again the
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Are there any opinions of showing videos of starlings doing things in the article? Any suggestions to improve the artwork?
671:
Thanks for your quick responses. I'll have some more comments soon, but I have no doubt I'll be supporting promotion soon.
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1779:(medium sized parrot) for possession of a nest hole. Is there anything on this that is relevant to add to the article?
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of the world where keeping starlings is popular? Is it illegal take one from the wild in some parts of the world?
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782:. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice.
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seasonal changes and environmental stress levels and is influenced by other dietary constituents."
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I have now changed to "Common Starling" all the instances of "Starling" referring particularly to the species.
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that says that it is illegal to buy and sell a starling (and a list of other native birds) in Great Britain.
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that it would help verifiability a little to more easily access what Lorenz wrote and what the context was.
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Duplication - you repeat the information about the Azores birds raiding terns, and the conservation impact/
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says that many species have iridescent plumage. Perhaps, "Shiny" is not quite the right word, or is it?
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I agree, I've expanded and rationalised the text, and added a link to the full text of the Brouwer ref
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I think that it is much better now. Avian Tb does not spread easily between otherwise healthy humans.
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Is there a reason why the eggs are blue. Most birds eggs that are laid in tree holes are white.
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I have changed some images and added more, and I see that you have also done so. Thank you.
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1808:. The larger, more aggressive, Common Mynas are more of a problem to medium-sized parrots.
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No, I think that if you are referring to the species you should use the full species name.
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has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see
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Why are there three external links to websites showing pictures and videos of starlings?
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I have found a place-holder image of an all-brown juvenile and shown it in the article.
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Is the new piped link backed up by the journal? I note that the new piped link goes to
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Not sure that they are mutually exclusive, but "probing" for both now for consistency
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I have changed the emphasis slightly according to what I have read in Lorentz book.
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The hygiene in the nest contrasts well with the mess of droppings on the ground.
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starling are usually successful (69%) in direct confrontation with the smaller
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The article says that starlings eat garbage. It probably means discarded food.
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The songsters are more commonly male although females also sing on occasions.
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If is is important, then perhaps someone else will be able to interpret it.
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I will add it this weekend. I don't have time during the week much anymore.
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I have amended it to give more the essence of what Lorentz was explaining.
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File:Sturnus_vulgaris_map.png: what base map was used to create this image?
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Yes, just the right amount of info, and I even found a link for protractor
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Added another ref which specifically names the starling as a victim of
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this. Unless I can find another source, this may be as good as it gets.
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I've done (i) and (ii), I'll see what I can find for (iii) and (iv)
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Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
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The feathers are described as "shiny" in the article. The page on
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Gleaning - I'm not sure that word means what you think it means.
2425:
something like "an egg 2 cm long and 1 cm in maximum diameter"?
970:
On thinking about it I figured we might have everything anyway.
778:
nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants:
689:
I'd seen the Indian Myna sunk into this genus and written as
294:
The summer breeding map colours are very hard to distinguish.
864:
Comments will be reading through and jotting queries below.
832:
I've added the base map and PD-US tags, thanks for review
803:
Captions that are complete sentences should end in periods
2356:
swings and roundabouts really, but changed to iridescent
2288:"Pairs may be part of a larger colony"; larger than what?
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1311:
Are the two images of nests on man-made things typical?
1123:
Done, with a suitable journal article to back it up.
204:
this "When a flock of Starlings is flying together,"
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Featured article candidates/Common Starling/archive1
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File:SturnusPorphyronotusSmit.jpg needs a US PD tag
726:( Belated, I wandered off to look at Albatrosses).
2617:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
1281:Thanks for comments and for tidying the fungus
1143:Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis
516:ref would enable us to make a better job of it
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
2264:Made it clear that existing cavities are used
1100:, then I think that a piped link to the genus
1091:Should the article refer more specifically to
2623:No further edits should be made to this page.
2596:template in place on the talk page until the
812:File:MozartStarlingTune.PNG needs US PD tag.
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
41:Knowledge talk:Featured article candidates
1749:Is it worth mentioning its CITES status?
1527:Removed. I didn't understand it either.
1031:looks pretty on-target for FA status....
557:Done so, let me know if more is needed.
2226:Thank you for your review and support.
198:Good. Some observations before support:
14:
637:More to follow after my copyedit run.
653:Thank you for your helpful comments.
321:excellent they stand out better now.
18:Knowledge:Featured article candidates
303:I have changed one of the colours.
23:
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489:I've added the mammal parasites.
861:on prose and comprehensiveness.
575:Thank you. It looks good to me.
420:removed the word, not essential
508:I don't think either of us has
1730:something that can be sourced
1058:Thanks for review and support
746:Thanks for review and support
13:
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878:) 13:34, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
7:
2591:featured article candidates
1096:article specifically about
885:article on the species.....
31:featured article nomination
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1104:would be more appropriate.
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986:21:35, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
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901:11:43, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
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709:13:34, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
2610:08:23, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
2563:08:18, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
2545:07:39, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
2521:06:41, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
912:- couple of things here.
847:06:37, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
822:23:21, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
792:00:01, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
761:06:10, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
681:08:13, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
663:06:25, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
647:19:54, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
604:06:47, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
585:06:01, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
567:01:59, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
549:06:12, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
531:09:29, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
504:09:02, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
469:07:03, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
435:07:03, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
401:07:27, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
367:07:03, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
331:08:08, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
313:07:20, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
278:06:12, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
260:19:29, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
242:08:06, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
224:06:25, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
190:10:02, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
172:10:02, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
57:16:59, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
2620:Please do not modify it.
1484:Not needed, removed now
36:Please do not modify it.
2511:introduced... Cheers,
1085:Review by Snowmanradio
942:The text implies that
454:Duplication removed
2005:King Solomon's Ring
1929:King Solomon's Ring
1708:King Solomon's Ring
1165:Mycobacterium avium
1093:Mycobacterium avium
2505:Delegate comments
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2586:, and leave the
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1169:paratuberculosis
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48:The article was
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2600:goes through.
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158:Nominator(s):
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146:External links
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2576:Closing note
2575:
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2467:
2383:
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2308:
2307:rm "larger"
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798:Image review
797:
796:
774:: This is a
771:
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693:at times....
690:
629:
626:Acridotheres
625:
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141:Citation bot
71:
49:
47:
35:
28:
2541:talk to me?
2487:Rephrased.
2367:talk to me?
2318:talk to me?
2275:talk to me?
2175:talk to me?
2107:talk to me?
2040:talk to me?
1963:talk to me?
1926:It is from
1914:talk to me?
1861:talk to me?
1819:talk to me?
1741:talk to me?
1693:talk to me?
1585:Clarified.
1495:talk to me?
1292:talk to me?
1251:talk to me?
1181:talk to me?
1167:subspecies
1069:talk to me?
1015:talk to me?
958:talk to me?
930:talk to me?
843:talk to me?
757:talk to me?
630:Creatophora
600:talk to me?
527:talk to me?
500:talk to me?
465:talk to me?
431:talk to me?
397:talk to me?
363:talk to me?
2489:Cwmhiraeth
2445:Cwmhiraeth
2408:Cwmhiraeth
2228:Cwmhiraeth
1804:, but not
1625:Cwmhiraeth
1587:Cwmhiraeth
1529:Cwmhiraeth
1428:Cwmhiraeth
1349:Cwmhiraeth
1125:Cwmhiraeth
857:Tentative
814:Nikkimaria
780:Cwmhiraeth
655:Cwmhiraeth
577:Cwmhiraeth
305:Cwmhiraeth
252:Cwmhiraeth
216:Cwmhiraeth
182:Cwmhiraeth
164:Cwmhiraeth
2584:WP:FAC/ar
2580:candidate
2534:Jimfbleak
2360:Jimfbleak
2333:Starlings
2311:Jimfbleak
2268:Jimfbleak
2168:Jimfbleak
2100:Jimfbleak
2033:Jimfbleak
1956:Jimfbleak
1907:Jimfbleak
1854:Jimfbleak
1812:Jimfbleak
1734:Jimfbleak
1686:Jimfbleak
1488:Jimfbleak
1285:Jimfbleak
1244:Jimfbleak
1174:Jimfbleak
1062:Jimfbleak
1029:Otherwise
1008:Jimfbleak
951:Jimfbleak
923:Jimfbleak
836:Jimfbleak
784:UcuchaBot
750:Jimfbleak
593:Jimfbleak
520:Jimfbleak
493:Jimfbleak
458:Jimfbleak
424:Jimfbleak
390:Jimfbleak
356:Jimfbleak
160:Jimfbleak
2602:Ian Rose
2578:: This
2555:Ian Rose
2513:Ian Rose
1098:M. avium
1043:contribs
1033:Casliber
982:contribs
972:Casliber
897:contribs
887:Casliber
876:contribs
866:Casliber
705:contribs
695:Casliber
196:Comments
136:Analysis
54:Ian Rose
50:promoted
2471:Snowman
2427:Snowman
2387:Snowman
2338:Snowman
2291:Snowman
2248:Snowman
2213:Snowman
2209:Support
2189:Snowman
2145:Snowman
2121:Snowman
2078:Snowman
2054:Snowman
2011:Snowman
1977:Snowman
1935:Snowman
1884:Snowman
1833:Snowman
1781:Snowman
1777:rosella
1751:Snowman
1713:Snowman
1663:Snowman
1646:Snowman
1607:Snowman
1569:Snowman
1547:Snowman
1511:Snowman
1468:Snowman
1446:Snowman
1410:Snowman
1386:Snowman
1368:Snowman
1330:Snowman
1314:Snowman
1265:Snowman
1263:I see.
1221:Snowman
1195:Snowman
1147:Snowman
1107:Snowman
859:support
776:WikiCup
724:Support
622:Sturnus
480:needed.
128:Toolbox
91:protect
86:history
2443:Done.
1623:Done.
268:Great
95:delete
1004:Done
944:stare
883:every
112:views
104:watch
100:links
16:<
2606:talk
2559:talk
2517:talk
2493:talk
2475:talk
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2431:talk
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2391:talk
2342:talk
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2252:talk
2232:talk
2217:talk
2193:talk
2149:talk
2125:talk
2082:talk
2058:talk
2015:talk
1981:talk
1939:talk
1888:talk
1837:talk
1785:talk
1755:talk
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1667:talk
1650:talk
1629:talk
1611:talk
1591:talk
1573:talk
1551:talk
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1472:talk
1450:talk
1432:talk
1414:talk
1390:talk
1372:talk
1353:talk
1334:talk
1318:talk
1269:talk
1225:talk
1199:talk
1151:talk
1129:talk
1111:talk
1037:talk
976:talk
891:talk
870:talk
818:talk
788:talk
772:Note
732:talk
699:talk
677:talk
659:talk
643:talk
628:and
581:talk
563:talk
545:talk
327:talk
309:talk
274:talk
256:talk
238:talk
220:talk
186:talk
168:talk
108:logs
82:talk
78:edit
2598:bot
514:HBW
510:HBW
52:by
2608:)
2594:}}
2588:{{
2561:)
2537:-
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