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I think it's a mistake to list the companies who sponsor J! (merely because of how much advertising budget they've contributed) or to maintain that list. The whole section about sponsorships is written like a press release rather than as reliable reference material. Furthermore, the article does not explore the level of control that sponsors exercise over the project and that deepens the mystery rather than providing any transparency. I would recommend the removal of the second and third paragraphs from this section.
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to lead readers to a more positively favoured opinion about the Joomla project, primary sources are quoted in the article where they support factual content. It cannot be helped that primary sources often contain opinion masquerading as fact; the purpose of the article is to provide as much fact as possible. I feel that the use of the phrase "relies excessively on primary sources" is not entirely justified; it is subjective and dismissive without providing a rationale as to why primary sources are unreliable.
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unnecessary criticism and distracts attention from the purpose of the article. Therefore, in the interests of not wanting to unnecessarily complicate matters (or mock however the SVN was supposed to be used for), I've removed the "Major version" column and will let taxonomy experts figure things out.
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supposed to be a major release but, according to various primary sources (cited in the article), it wasn't. The intention I had in mind to have a "Major version" column was to make sense of the numbering "system(s)" used by Joomla but, in hindsight, it wasn't worth the trouble and, to do so, invites
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Again, someone in their "eagerness" to list the latest dot-point/bugfix release of Joomla had modified the release history table to include the latest release. The latest version-number is indicated at the top of the article, together with a reference (citation) with information about the reason for
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Whether one could characterise Molajo as vapourware or not—Molajo never launched beyond an overhead projector—the events at that time polarised the community, leading to an exodus of several key contributors from Joomla. I can't cite references as to who did what to whom, what or why things happened
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I went as far as I could, based on information scattered around the internet, and left the history of the project as it was in mid-2020. During the latter half of 2020 and early 2021 there were several changes to the make-up of Open Source
Matters, Inc., in particular the composition of the Board of
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who wrote "I added a
Citation needed to the statement 'In his welcoming address to Joomla and Beyond OSM President Brian Mitchell accepted as fact that Joomla was in crisis.' I listened to the J&Beyond 2020 speech by OSM president Brian Mitchell 2x and did not hear any mention of a crisis. Maybe
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Yes, it's true that the Joomla! Project "accepts sponsorships". It's also true that the project has classes of sponsors (e.g. bronze, silver, gold, etc.) based on how much money is invested by entities whose products and services may be advertised in various ways on websites managed by the project.
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While there may be more references to "primary sources" than to (say) independently researched commentary, this is because many so-called independent commentators have biases about the Joomla project. For the most part, although some primary sources may be interpreted as having a secondary purpose
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submitted by software developers, or copied or plagiarised in order to manipulate market share; it is not possible to verify impartiality or an absence of bias by such authors. Material sourced from sites such as these needs to be weighed with a grain of salt; rather than including a disclaimer in
1215:). Given that there have been 153 minor (almost trivial) dot-point releases in the past 15 years, it serves no useful purpose to advertise each and every one of them in Knowledge. One can obtain detailed information, if one searches, at various Joomla code repositories or at the official website.
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Someone, in their eagerness to update the Joomla story, added several lines of narrative to the article with the release dates of half-a-dozen version-patch/bugfix releases. This activity (which ceased a few months ago) gained some encouragement within the Joomla user community (see the discussion
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or associated trademark indica (e.g. ™, ® and © in Joomla's official branding policy)), as far as I can tell the
Knowledge article does not extensively quote from copyrighted/trademarked material and, as an aid for further research, the article is not impaired by removing constant references to how
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The position of the Joomla! Project and Open Source
Matters is that the exclamation point (!) is a part of the Joomla! trademark, and as such, should be included in the first use of the word "Joomla" and may be omitted from following uses of the word "Joomla". This is the consistent with Joomla!'s
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Early criticisms about the Joomla project are, perhaps, now a matter of historical interest; those criticisms persist to this day with reference to the project as it was over a decade ago. Perhaps one measure of the success or otherwise of the project could be the tapering in interest in Joomla's
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that provides a clue that the working group was established some time ago. At its inception (as I recall), the working group cited
Nicholas Dionysopoulos' opinion article written in 2015 as one of the factors influencing the creation of FftF. I have not been able to locate information about the
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to be a major release—it was supposed to be the LTS version of J! 1.0—J! 1.5 introduced a parcel of changes that partly allowed some features of J! 1.0 to continue to operate but, for all intents, J! 1.5 is not backward compatible with J! 1.0. I'm sure there would be an army of experts who have
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I don't like the idea of including alpha/beta version releases in the (rewritten) version history table but there it would be of small significance to include a reference to the progress of future releases (whether they actual make it to "stable" or not). That's a future work as part of a major
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the release. Repeating the same information in the version history table does not add any value and, for the reasons mentioned above, this is unnecessary. Before modifying the structure of this table, with a view to adding dot-point releases to the history table, please use the talk page first.
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In the version tables, someone has deemed it appropriate to add notes about a "Major
Version" and "Released As", which creates additional confusion in the context of the article. Joomla 3.x has never been known as the 4th major version, and trying to refer to the 4th major version is extremely
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serves as an advance notice to readers of this article that it is not perfect and serves as an ask for editors to help improve the article. By adding the issue, this article also gets added to several categories that are regularly patrolled by users whose mission is to improve the quality and
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has a couple considerations that should be raised when
Knowledge users are reading an article. As you mentioned, articles by the subject about itself will present inherent bias even when it is unintentional. You note that this is unfavorable in independently researched commentary, even though
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The community part on the Joomla webpage is supporting its customers with information. In the Forum users help each other and the Joomla magazine is supporting the users with professional help. Furthermore, the community is informing about Joomla! Days around the world. This event gives the
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Joomla is the world’ s most popular open source CMS (content management system). With 2.7 percent of the Web running on Joomla, the software is used by individuals, small & medium-sized businesses, and large organizations worldwide to easily create & build a variety of websites &
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Molajo, while definitely an interesting distribution that has yet to be launched, is currently just that, a distribution. So until we add an entire section for a distribution that may or may not be launched at some point in the future, I don't think we should include it here.
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that J! was in crisis, his address was his definition of what was essential for the survival of the code, community and the culture. When people talk about the survival of something I think we're talking about something facing a crisis. As a result of the criticism made by
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The versions should consistently be referenced how the project and the community know them, not how someone arbitrarily tries to number them. If someone wants to explain why the jump from 1.0 to 1.5 is considered a major version jump, similar for 1.5 to 1.6, then go for it.
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data from 2005-present would be worthwhile, however. I think it may improve the quality of the article to mention some criticisms along the way (in the
History section, but not necessarily draw attention to them by having a separate sub-section to deal with those events
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crisis but there were other matters, not publicly revealed until a year later, that were happening in the backgroound. It may have been an overreach on my part to conclude, from the video or from
Mitchell's remarks at the FftF convention in Spain earlier in 2020, that
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I'd prefer not to use "Joomla!" (with the exclamation point) until and unless we determine whether the people who created the project feel it is (or was) part of the name. Then we could include a paragraph or even a whole section on the usage of that punctuation mark.
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There is not much reliable secondary source information available in this subject. Joomla is something of a "niche" product. I should like to see the warning advice relating to "primary sources"—appearing at the head of the article—to be removed.
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A work in progress. The original entry for Joomla was written over a decade ago and has not really been maintained very well; article updates focused only on version updates as opposed to how people and events shaped the course of the project.
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It isn't consistently used on the Joomla website, so although it forms part of the graphical logo I'm ambivalent about whether we have it in the text of the article. Whatever way we go though it should be consistent i.e. all or nothing.
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My attempt to fix the word salad of "supposed to be have been released " by removing the superfluous words "have been" has been reverted. Can anyone suggest another way of fixing this article, or can we get consensus to restore my fix?
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There is no dispute that Joomla is recognised in the open-source CMS market space (and a reference to the sources quoted by the Joomla marketing people appears above) but commentary that appears on various websites (such as the
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Let's mention in the article that they used the exclamation point, either as part of the logo (to attract attention?) or "officially" as part of the name. But first, let's research that.
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The description on the official project homepage should speak for itself, but lots of people enjoy adding the explanation point. I guess it's like using the backwards R in the logo for
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presumably they also contain factual information. However, relying on primary sources can also lead
Knowledge editors to interpret the information themselves, leading to violations of
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Mitchell used the word "crisis" in his opening remarks (at 2'10" and at 2'40") where he talks about J!'s "response to the crisis". Mitchell certainly was referring to the COVID-19
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I have not seen other cases, with other software products on Knowledge, where details of every bugfix is mentioned to the point of being a nauseating litany of non-achievement.
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The reference (12) from Andrew's post is IMHO more complete. I suggest to remove the reference to (11). Not sure if I can do so as my reputation here is not yet high enough.
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Fair comment. The present perfect continuous tense in English is complicated for people for whom English is not their first language. I have changed the sentence from
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was in a state of crisis (although, from a business perspective, other evidence might be obtained to support or refute such a view). Whether or not Mitchell explicitly
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2495:. Additionally, over-reliance on primary sources can be an indication that a subject is not actually notable enough to merit a Knowledge article. Articles should meet
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Name (and alternative spellings) and pronunciation guide information added to opening paragraph. These changes should address the concerns raised in this discussion.
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to be a major release but when you consider what changes were made to the code, the database and the community as a consequence, it was pretty "major". J! 3.0
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It was originally part of the name and then fell into such disuse - because it's silly - that it doesn't matter anymore. WRobertson 21:04, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
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Most of the sources are primary links to Joomla's website, consisting of mainly release statements and forum posts. Very few third-party sources are used.
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article about the reputability of awards or trophies, it is better to remove the table written by the Joomla marketing team from the article entirely.
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references to Molajo as if it never happened) and therefore kept things short, evidence-based and without personal bias or subjectivity on the matter.
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At one time I remember reading an article relating to the formation of the FftF working group. The title of only current information about FftF is
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To describe the founder a reference (11) to the 10 years anniversary article from Brian Teenman is used on which no further names are mentioned.
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origins of FftF and, for the time being. If anyone knows where the original article about FftF can be located, it would be nice to add it here.
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The history section is broken up into a lot of single or double sentence paragraphs. This is a detriment to the flow of the article.
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at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be
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I believe the tag should stand as it is accurate (albeit not nuanced) and beneficial information for both readers and editors.
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The Joomla code, community, culture image seems to be rather insignificant and is more fit for a marketing presentation.
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Mentioning the exclamation mark briefly in the lead, then omitting it in the rest of the article works for me. --
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When we did the article for Korn a few years back, some enthusiastic contributor actually placed the article at
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The article mostly focuses on the product itself and community, but not its reception among the larger public.
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If, however (and *sigh*), there is a guideline requiring us to keep it in, just revert me. I don't mind. --
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this article. I would recommend taking some time to research coverage of Joomla in reliable sources;
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Further, this "Awards" section does not appear on non-English translations of the Joomla Wiki page.
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different views but does it really matter when J! 1.0 and J! 1.5 are now obsolete? J! 1.6 was not
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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That "someone" was me. Let's try to unpack this (it's a bit complicated). While J! 1.5 was not
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Drupal and Wordpress have sections for criticisms, whereas this one does not. (Inconsistency)
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in the ways they did (any more than asserting that Knowledge would benefit by removing
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doesn't appear to be notable enough for its own article: should it be merged here?
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This requirement is significantly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required of
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Originally, this version was supposed to be have been released in July 2012 ...
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I believe the name of the product is "Joomla" without the exclamation point.
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appropriate and readily available, then some such images should be provided.
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If the Joomla article was straight-up bad, it would likely be deleted. The
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1601:. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
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I have softened the wording in the article and re-instated the citation.
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to split or merge content, good faith improvements to the page (such as
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can be used for in-line citations, but not both in the same article.
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What is the thinking on Alpha & Beta "releases"? For example,
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C-Class Free and open-source software articles of Low-importance
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Category:Articles lacking reliable references from February 2024
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Still a WIP, I'm researching the impact of Molajo on Joomla (or
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Category:Articles needing additional references from April 2024
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Regardless of how "Joomla" is referred to (with or without the
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The original plan was to release this version in July 2012 ...
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Compliance with other aspects of the Manual of Style, or the
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and others that have no involvement with the Joomla project.
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Sorry, but the sources situation is unacceptable. I have to
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possibiliy to meet other people and to exchange knowledge.
1253:"The latest version-number (...) at the top of the article"
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https://docs.joomla.org/Special:MyLanguage/Joomla!_Awards
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The section relating to "Awards" — sourced entirely from
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https://forum.joomla.org/viewtopic.php?f=48&p=3619320
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Low-importance Free and open-source software articles
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quantity of citations in Knowledge articles (such as
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of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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Talk pages of subject pages with paid contributions
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Category:All articles needing additional references
808:trademark policy regarding the (R) symbol as well.
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1112:Just kill it. it was little more than vapourware
677:. I'd rather not confuse the logo with the name.
2513:Category:All articles lacking reliable references
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33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
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2722:C-Class Free and open-source software articles
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2387:Suggest better reference for Joomla founders
2322:Knowledge:Reliable sources/Perennial sources
1009:Directors, that are absent from the article.
1012:Furthermore, in August 2021, the "Joomla 4.
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1502:this statement is from somewhere else?"
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1195:Removing the dot-point release "history"
218:Engineering and technology good articles
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1079:19:34, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
1050:14:18, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
900:18:06, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
7:
2592:required for good articles.
1262:Alpha & Beta 'releases'
1155:Forum for the Future (FftF)
773:14:47, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
751:14:44, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
706:21:41, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
690:21:23, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
297:Former good article nominee
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
10:
2763:
2692:C-Class Computing articles
2661:The presence of images is
2482:07:35, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
2458:22:40, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
2324:is a good place to start.
1721:the layout style guideline
1646:
1475:20:01, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
1300:11:32, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
1250:06:31, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
1189:22:25, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
977:12:55, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
918:How to pronounce Joomla?
667:web-enabled applications.
473:project's importance scale
230:. Editors may also seek a
2702:C-Class software articles
2372:19:38, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
2358:11:40, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
1678:(b) it complies with the
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80:Be welcoming to newcomers
2603:parenthetical references
2586:Manual of Style mainpage
2190:No daily changes. Passed
2034:(copyvio and plagiarism)
1415:popularity by examining
852:14:18, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
2542:14:10, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
1846:to the topic, and have
1482:Joomla in crisis (2020)
2742:All Computing articles
2631:Vandalism reversions,
2412:Awards and recognition
505:
485:
435:information technology
358:This article is rated
75:avoid personal attacks
2717:All Software articles
2056:Broad in its coverage
1767:(a) it addresses the
1761:Broad in its coverage
1647:Further information:
504:
484:
422:WikiProject Computing
266:Articles for deletion
224:good article criteria
100:Neutral point of view
2438:advertorial material
2397:Thx for considering
1941:no original research
1750:copyright violations
1743:no original research
1713:no original research
1268:Joomla 4.0.0 Alpha 1
658:Name and punctuation
545:Wikimedia Foundation
492:WikiProject Software
324:. Any such comments
281:Good article nominee
105:No original research
2172:or content dispute.
2011:(original research)
1797:or content dispute.
1748:(d) it contains no
1734:. All content that
1640:- Review Criteria
1638:Good Article Status
575:) has been paid by
2209:, if possible, by
1829:copyright statuses
1803:, if possible, by
1700:list incorporation
1270:was 'released' in
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364:content assessment
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245:Article milestones
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914:How to pronounce?
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1864:Well-written
1863:
1804:
1800:
1790:
1782:
1769:main aspects
1760:
1732:cited inline
1712:
1706:
1665:Well-written
1664:
1658:good article
1655:
1644:
1627:
1616:
1606:
1605:
1592:
1581:Instructions
1521:Veritas17057
1515:
1511:
1506:
1504:
1499:Veritas17057
1485:
1465:
1462:Sponsorships
1437:— Preceding
1432:
1420:
1416:
1390:75.76.183.29
1387:
1375:
1371:
1366:
1339:
1332:
1328:
1324:
1304:
1287:
1283:
1279:
1275:
1271:
1267:
1265:
1252:
1217:
1198:
1158:
1147:
1114:— Preceding
1111:
1105:
1082:
1035:
1013:
980:
969:Elizabeth N2
966:
956:
938:
926:188.28.52.73
917:
881:
863:
844:1.129.106.73
798:
679:
672:
661:
601:
569:
549:Terms of Use
510:
490:
468:
420:
370:WikiProjects
296:
279:
271:No consensus
264:
233:reassessment
231:
216:
215:
211:
171:
165:
157:
150:
144:
138:
132:
122:
94:
19:This is the
2650:sound clips
2474:Sozzled2904
2450:Sozzled2904
2364:Sozzled2904
2207:Illustrated
1827:with their
1801:Illustrated
1595:transcluded
1487:Sozzled2904
1467:Sozzled2904
1443:Cheermischi
1424:discretely.
1404:Sozzled2904
1355:Sozzled2904
1306:Sozzled2904
1223:Sozzled2904
1200:Sozzled2904
1181:Sozzled2904
1160:Sozzled2904
1135:Sozzled2904
1089:Sozzled2904
1071:Sozzled2904
1018:Sozzled2904
998:Sozzled2904
982:Sozzled2904
940:Sozzled2904
920:—Preceding
892:Sozzled2904
865:Sozzled2904
581:Declaration
317:not a forum
228:renominated
148:free images
31:not a forum
2681:Categories
2548:References
2504:WP:PRIMARY
2488:WP:PRIMARY
2434:CMS Critic
2422:CMS Critic
2331:Discussion
1936:Verifiable
1754:plagiarism
1708:Verifiable
1548:Authorship
1534:GA toolbox
1384:Criticisms
1083:vice-versa
765:Simple Bob
698:Simple Bob
330:refactored
286:Not listed
2633:proposals
2607:footnotes
2570:8 October
2534:Vegantics
2497:WP:SIGCOV
2399:AKempkens
2318:quickfail
2103:(focused)
1607:Reviewer:
1571:Templates
1562:Reviewing
1527:GA Review
1429:Community
1326:strange.
631:Archive 4
624:Archive 3
619:Archive 2
614:Archive 1
444:Computing
431:computing
427:computers
389:Computing
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2354:Chequers
2235:Criteria
2213:such as
2170:edit war
2068:Criteria
1953:Criteria
1876:Criteria
1844:relevant
1807:such as
1795:edit war
1649:WP:WIAGA
1632:Criteria
1620:contribs
1576:Criteria
1507:pandemic
1451:contribs
1439:unsigned
1372:supposed
1367:supposed
1116:unsigned
922:unsigned
743:Uncle Ed
682:Uncle Ed
602:Archives
573:contribs
394:Software
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2601:Either
2241:Result
2185:Result
2142:Result
2126:Neutral
2074:Result
1959:Result
1890:(prose)
1882:Result
1784:Neutral
1696:fiction
1341:Michael
1284:planned
963:History
553:WP:PAID
471:on the
360:C-class
336:at the
253:Process
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
2523:, and
2493:WP:NOR
2443:Joomla
2301:Notes
2298:Result
2291:Result
2215:images
2166:Stable
1858:Review
1831:, and
1825:tagged
1809:images
1791:Stable
1698:, and
1688:layout
1512:Joomla
1211:here:
1038:Molajo
1032:Molajo
840:Yahoo!
577:Joomla
433:, and
366:scale.
334:Joomla
322:Joomla
256:Result
214:was a
212:Joomla
126:Google
25:Joomla
2426:Packt
2350:Spiel
2238:Notes
2223:audio
2221:, or
2219:video
2211:media
2182:Notes
2139:Notes
2071:Notes
1956:Notes
1939:with
1913:(MoS)
1879:Notes
1839:; and
1817:audio
1815:, or
1813:video
1805:media
1745:; and
1711:with
1610:MSG17
1597:from
1288:hoped
1058:jondn
834:More
810:jondn
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2572:2008
2538:talk
2478:talk
2454:talk
2441:the
2403:talk
2368:talk
2345:Ϣere
2312:Fail
2282:Fail
2261:Pass
2199:Pass
2094:Fail
2002:Fail
1730:are
1726:(b)
1660:is—
1614:talk
1516:said
1491:talk
1471:talk
1447:talk
1408:talk
1394:talk
1359:talk
1345:talk
1310:talk
1296:talk
1286:(or
1246:talk
1227:talk
1204:talk
1185:talk
1164:talk
1139:talk
1124:talk
1106:Done
1093:talk
1075:talk
1062:talk
1046:talk
1022:talk
1002:talk
986:talk
973:talk
957:Done
944:talk
930:talk
896:talk
882:Done
869:talk
848:talk
836:here
814:talk
769:Talk
747:talk
729:KOĐŻN
725:KoŃŹn
702:Talk
686:talk
675:Korn
567:talk
543:The
250:Date
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
2667:are
2663:not
2605:or
2590:not
2378:to
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2247:(a)
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2080:(a)
2032:(d)
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1148:all
727:or
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547:'s
463:Low
328:or
176:TWL
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