244:). I think the article follows a quite common scholarly practice, as its structure is based on chronology instead of topics. This is fully in line with most of the cited books. As I also noticed that the article failed to explain why the Middle Ages is discussed as one period in scholarly literature, I expanded it with two sentences about the period's main characteristics (I refer to the third paragraph in section "Terminology and periodisation"). If we ignore these common characteristics, we can indeed conclude that the three subperiods were quite distinct, as it is presented in the article. On the other hand, the article (I hope) also presents the links between the subperiods. (2) The sentence containing a reference to Dodwell presented his PoV about frescoes in churches in the west. As I prefer facts and wanted to expand the article about details of Orthodox architecture and art, I deleted the PoV sentence, and added a sentence about Balkan church architecture. (3) Miri Rubin is primarily named because I preferred to quote her words instead of paraphrasing them. Furthermore, she is a prominent contemporaneous historian of the period, who is specifically mentioned in John H. Arnold's cited book about problems of medieval history.
215:
and
Architecture sections. This gives the impression that the three periods are quite distinct with little connecting the historical division as a whole. This may be true (within usual historical fuzziness, although but then why is there only a two-fold division in Romance historiography?), but if so I'd expect something a bit more explicit about such disjunctions in Terminology and periodisation. Aside from that discussion, overall, it does not appear at an initial read through that the quality has obviously decreased since the linked version. Perhaps worth a note that the new version calls highlights a single historian (
376:
technology in works by Rogers, DeVries and the
Bachrachs among others deserve mention. The later medieval section is rather weak on maritime advances, which are a very significant factor going into the 16th century as the reach of European ambition expands globally (economic motivation is fine but it needed the technology to achieve it). This should include advances in navigation (development of portolan charts and so on) not just shipbuilding.
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staircases and interior courtyards cannot be used under § 59(1) even if all of the above-described conditions are met". Now, the image does not show a courtyard or staircase, so it could be allowed on a technicality but it can very well be disputed too. For the St. Mark's
Basilica statues and Sanvitale03 images, FoP is "
355:
completely re-done. In the past
Borsoka expressed the view very strongly that the previous version was absolutely terrible, and should never have been made FA. What is presented now is a completely new article, that has never been through FAC, as it needs a full review, for the first time. I hope this has clarified.
214:
Regarding the broad structure, it seems worth bringing up for discussion that the article seems structured as three separate topics rather than a single one, being set up as a summary of each period (Early, High, Late). There are 3 society subsections, 3 military and technology subsections, and 3 Art
354:
Always the not-understanding with you! FAR is meant to be a much lighter process, and normally attracts far fewer reviewers and comments. That may be fine for an article that has already been through FAC, but is wholly inappropriate for one that has been changed as much as this one, in effect
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As I've said before, this article is hugely lacking in music content. Despite the lengthy architecture & art sections, there is quite literally eight words on music. This is not acceptable: this period saw some of the most important developments of
Western music: notation, harmony, genre
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Ok, all images seem ok now except for File:Aachen
Germany Imperial-Cathedral-12a.jpg. As per Commons, Germany's freedom of panorama rules are: "In the case of architectural works, the freedom of panorama provision is applicable only to the external appearance. Therefore, pictures of interior
375:
While one wouldn't expect great detail on military matters, the article does over-rely on a single generalist work (Nicolle
Medieval Warfare Source Book), which means a single and perhaps slightly dated perspective. Conflicting views on the roles of cavalry and infantry or the importance of
746:
for objects where the copyright has expired". The statues are from 290s AD and the mosaic from 547 AD so both are ok. On the maps with color as a legend, I'm not an expert, only
Nikkimaria or another editor with image review proficiency will be able to rule on this. So pending the
1005:
Is there any material in the sources from the further reading section which could be added to the article? If not, you may have to remove the section entirely. I personally don't have any issues with such a section but have seen reviews where editors have criticised the need for
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File:Новгородская грамота 109 от Жизномира к Микуле 12 век.jpg - PD tag could be disputed since the photo seems to be from a book published in 2021, unless this fragment is already in the public domain, say at a museum or public collection, if so then the tag will have to be
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File:Europe and the Near East at 476 AD.png, File:Map of expansion of
Caliphate.svg, File:Carolingian territorial divisions, 843/855/870.png, File:Europe mediterranean 1190.jpg - I had issues with a map which had colors like these ones in my recent FAC nom, due to
523:
For Lasko 1972, why use the old SBN format, and not the ISBN provided by Google Books: 9780300060485? Have there been any material changes between the two texts? If you choose the latter, the formatting would also be consistent with all the other sources in the
1009:
Could you provide quotations for the following refs? I tried accessing some of them on Google Books but many previews don't have page numbers, making spot checks hard. I'll try to access some of these that have DOIs or JSTOR IDs, for the others you can provide
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Would you consider adding DOIs and JSTOR IDs for books? If so, I can provide these. Many sources are from OUP, CUP or other university presses which allow access with the above through The
Knowledge Library that is easier than accessing through
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Please remember that you are not re-reviewing an existing FA, but what is in effect a completely new article that has never been through FAC. So you should indeed the thorough, if you think it is appropriate to engage in this at all.
959:: Here goes the source review. Since the article has ~500 refs, I will be doing spot checks for 20 refs, which is 4% of the total refs. I will also be using a random number generator to make the ref selection as random as possible.
603:
The site has the following copyright info: © 2023 – National Research University Higher School of Economics; Institute of Slavic Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences. Are these government institutions? If so, then will be PD.
420:, saving a space, will be adding comments soon. I will try to do a comprehensive review as you request in the introduction here, but given the huge scale of this article, that will take a lot of time. I hope that is ok. Cheers
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have all said so in the past, so there should be no difficulty. The stats give Borsoka, who first edited the article 27 December 2021, long after it became FA in May 2013, 70.5% of the "authorship attribution", in 1411 edits.
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File:Venice city scenes - in St. Mark's square, File:Sanvitale03.jpg - St Mark's Basilica (11002237996).jpg and - The photographers may have provided CC license for the images, but are they covered under Italy's freedom of
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We do not have available maps of better quality. From a practical perspective, I think the fact that most of the maps have not been challenged for more than a decade indicates that our readers think they are useful.
1035:, I'm thinking of doing spot checks only after you've incorporated Aza24's suggestions on medieval music. That way, one or two refs from such text added can also be checked. Wdyt?
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Sorry, my time is quite limited. I standardised the references and added a link to the books which was a boring work. I would not expand the references with further details.
454:, I understand the quality of the review would need to be high. I will work on being as thorough as possible, please let me know at any time during the process if I err.
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I am nominating this featured article for review because it was heavily edited, partially rewritten and slightly restructured for various reasons since 23 December 2021 (
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etc.—these developments are vastly more fundamental than any innovations in art/architecture. This period was quite literally the birth of Western classical music. –
79:
As of 30 September 2024, 09:18 (UTC), this page is active and open for discussion. A FAR coordinator will advance or close this nomination when consensus is reached.
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File:Aachen Germany Imperial-Cathedral-12a.jpg, File:Frühmittelalterliches Dorf.jpg, File:Maria Lach 02.jpg: Covered under Germany's freedom of panorama?
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Thank you for your comment. During the next weeks, I will try to improve the sections about military history taking into account your suggestions.
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Remove the second link to Edward Grant, as we have not linked similarly for Chris Wickham, the only other author we have used two works from?
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Link to Oxford History of Art, Oxford Illustrated Histories, Routledge Studies in Medieval Religion and Culture, as done for other series?
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Thank you for your comments. (1) I did not touch the main structure of the article because it has been stable for more than a decade (
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1067:: Not a problem, please tag when you have the time to work on the article and we will resume the review then.
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Sorry, I was on holiday and I am extremly busy in real life now. I am working on adding info on music.
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Very well, the source formatting review is a pass then, will do the image and source reviews tomorrow.
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Borsoka is correct. The rewrite in the last 3 years has been so complete that the usual FAR process is
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I replaced the picture about the Palatine Chapel with another one from a Carolingian manuscript.
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All other images seem to have proper sources and copyright tags, at least as far as I can tell. @
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I intend to have a look sometime in the next month. Ping me if I haven't got round to it.
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Definitely some most-welcome improvements. I'll try to take a closer look this weekend.
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issue, everything else is ok. Once that is resolved then we can pass the image review.
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based on my assessment. I will try to do the source review within 2-3 days. Cheers
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Excellent idea. Could you recommend a comprehensive book about medieval music?
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474:: Here goes the source formatting review, source review to come soon.
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Why is David Lindberg mentioned twice as an editor in Lindberg 2003?
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I'm one of the likely closers on this so will leave it to you :-)
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is useful, and linking it to both names would be difficult.
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Link to Frances and Joseph Gies as done for other authors?
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It's not so much about ownership as stewardship, and it's
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in the second Art and architecture subsection. Best,
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will be able to provide more feedback on the images.
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per the page history (Borsoka, Ealdgyth and myself)
84:Featured article candidates/Middle Ages/archive1
91:Featured article review/Middle Ages/archive1
911:). I would be grateful for your comments.
1002:All sources are from reliable publishers.
858:For recent surveys, I'd recommend these:
531:I use the format presented in the book.
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484:I am not sure that the existing link
334:cmt now huffily blanked by the poster
332:To clarify - the below replies to a
787:All ok then, the image review is a
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727:Thank you for your image review.
18:Knowledge:Featured article review
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576:Here goes the image review:
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908:I expanded the article (
486:Frances and Joseph Gies
288:nobody owns an article
1095:~~ AirshipJungleman29
322:——Serial Number 54129
261:totally inappropriate
684:See my above remark.
670:See my above remark.
587:I added a new link.
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217:Miri Rubin
129:Notified:
749:MOS:COLOR
644:MOS:COLOR
628:Based on
621:panorama?
580:updated.
131:Ealdgyth
107:Analysis
1089:Airship
1065:Borsoka
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1122:(talk)
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56:delete
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516:Done.
502:Done.
139:Reddi
73:views
65:watch
61:links
16:<
1099:talk
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450:Hi @
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1112::)
1006:it.
416:Hi
319:.
225:CMD
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